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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Carmarthenshire => Topic started by: Charles IX on Saturday 21 August 10 16:52 BST (UK)
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Im trying to find out any information about Morgan Charles, he was born in Llanddeusant, Llandovery his date of birth is kind of sketchy one record says he was born in 1818 and christened in 1823 but in the 1841 census it says he was born about 1826. His parents were Morgan and Hannah Charles and other than the record on familysearch which is where I got his D.O.B and christening from, I cannot find anything else on him. I would love it if someone could help me find out what happened to him....
Kind Regards
Charles
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Hi
The IGI extracted has his christening in 1823 but no date of birth. The DOB entries are submitted so should be treated with caution, the only way of checking these would be the parish register entry. Don't forget that ages were rounded down in the 1841 census and 15 - 19 year olds should be recorded as 15 ???
Sorry I am no more help at the moment
Rosie
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Charles
Census 1841 (HO 107 1386 1/5 3)
Morgan Charles, 50, Farmer
Anne Charles, 35
Jenet Charles, 20
Mary Charles, 20
Morgan Charles, 15
John Charles, 9
William Charles, 7
Margaret Charles, 4
Eleanor Charles, 1
John Evans, 35, Ag Lab
Address Tyrclyn, Llanddausant. All born Carmathenshire.
Census 1851 (HO107 2470 5 3)
Morgan Charles, Head, Marrr, 63, Farmer 63 Acres, Llanddausant
Ann Charles, Wife, Marr, 49, Llanddausant
Mary Morgans, Dau, Unm, 27, "
John Morgans, Son, Unm, 19, "
Elenor Morgans, Dau, Unm, 11, "
Rachel Morgans, Dau, Unm, 9, "
Charles Morgans, Son, Unm, 5, Llanddausant
Hannah Thomas, G/Dau, 2, Llanddausant
John Evans, 50, Farm Servant, "
John Jones, 16, Farm Servant
Address Tyryclyn, Llanddausant
It's the same family in both instances even though the Enumerator looks to have captured the children's Surname incorrectly in the 1851 Census.
If so, "Charles Morgans, Son, 5" should read "Morgan Charles, Son, 5". This would then point to the the elder Morgan Charles having died.
Any thoughts?
regards
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Charles,
The penny's just dropped.
If the Enumerator has captured Morgan instead of charles, "Charles Morgans" should read "Charles Charles" - not Morgan Charles. That's wishful thinking on my part, perhaps.
A Charles Charles was registered Llandovery Dec 1845 26 529.
Back to the search
regards
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Hi Rosie and Hanes teulu,
Thank you both for your replys. Hanes teulu:- Sorry I should have mentioned in my first post that in the 1851 census the family surname is under Morgan not Charles... Confusing I know it had me stumped for ages so Charles Morgan is actually Charles Charles brother of Morgan Charles (the one Im looking for)
Rosie:- On the IGI serach if you type in Morgan Charles 1818 two people come up one with a father Charles Charles and one with a father called Morgan Charles in the Llanddeusant area. Although they are all related its the one with the father of the same name Im interested in. Again its a bit confusing with all these people of the same name knocking around ::)
Kind Regards
Charles
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Charles,
The penny's just dropped.
If the Enumerator has captured Morgan instead of charles, "Charles Morgans" should read "Charles Charles" - not Morgan Charles. That's wishful thinking on my part, perhaps.
A Charles Charles was registered Llandovery Dec 1845 26 529.
Back to the search
But there was a Charles Morgans registered in Llandovery in 1841( Sept), although the age is 4 years out as he would have been 9. Could this be an example of Welsh patronimic naming? What name were they using in 1861?
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Rosie:- On the IGI serach if you type in Morgan Charles 1818 two people come up one with a father Charles Charles and one with a father called Morgan Charles in the Llanddeusant area. Although they are all related its the one with the father of the same name Im interested in. Again its a bit confusing with all these people of the same name knocking around ::)
Kind Regards
Charles
Hi Charles
Both of the 1818 records are 'submitted' and have no source so can only be treated as dubious. If he had been born 1818 I would have expected him to have been christened at the same time as Lewis Charles who has the 'same parents' (Batch No C099321) and not 5 years later - the submitted dates are after all 'about' dates, only the parish register would solve this IF it had the birth date on it.
Also back to the search and where is Lewis :) Rosie
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Ah I didnt notice that the birth record was submitted, I was wondering the same thing about Morgan if he was ideed born in 1818 then why wasnt he christened the same time as his borther Lewis... I had a thought yesterday after Hanes Teulu showed me the 1851 census again and was thinking is there a possibilaty that Morgan died at some point between 1841 and 1851 but was registered at the time of death as Morgan Morgan??? I looked and theres 2 Morgan Morgan's that died between 41/51 in the Llandovery area one in 1842 and one in 1845 BUT it doesnt have the ages on them >:( and Im a bit reluctant of buying the two certificates because theres just as much chance they could be from an actual Morgan family line and not even from Llanddeusant....
Morganllan:- The 1851 was the only time the that surname "Morgan/s" was used every other census its been Charles :)
Kind Regards
Charles
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Hi
I have Maorgan Charles Morgan of Llanddeusant in my family tree. He is the son of David Lewis Howell & Ann Bowen. His wife is Hannah Lewis. I hope this helps
Mei
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Hello Mei,
Ive been doing quite a bit of research on the Charles Family in Llanddeusant for a while now and Ive never seen anything about a Morgan Charles with the parents David L Howell and Ann Bowen ??? I would like really like to see what information you have on this and if you do have a Morgan Charles from Llanddeusant who married Hannah Lewis in your tree then I geuss that makes us cousins ;D Would be great to hear from you.
Charles
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The Morgan Charles who married Hannah Lewis was known as Morgan Charles Morgan. He was was born at Gwydre, Llanddausant in 1788 and married Hannah in 1810, they lived at Tyryclyn. Hannah died 1810 and Morgan in 1828.
They had 5 children between 1817 and 1823 (there may have been more but I have no record of them as it seems funny to have had one every other year from 1817 but none from 1810 t0 1917 0 they may not have survived.)
Hannah was the daughter of David Lewis Howell and Ann Bowen.
David was of the Lewis Howells of Pont Hywell, Llanddausant but dropped the Howells element and took Lewis as his surname giving up the welsh tradition.
If this connects do come back.
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Sorry, forgot to add Morgan Charles son of Hannah and Morgan Charles Morgan was born 1823 at Tyryclyn, Llanddausant, he was the fifth surviving child of the marriage..
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Hello Wheatman,
Its been over a year since I lasted posted on here and since then Ive found a lot more information, although I didnt know about Hannah's family so that was helpful thank you :) Also Morgan (b;-1788) didnt die in 1828 he died in 1873 aged 85. He re-married after Hannah died to Ann/e Bowen and went on to have 6 more children, having his last child aged 57! Are you realated in some form to the family?
Charles
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Yes I am, you can contact me off list once you have replied I will delete this message
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Ive got your address you can delete the last post now, I'll be in contact soon :)