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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Wiggy on Friday 20 August 10 02:19 BST (UK)
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Hello you in the land of the long white cloud,
I have just found that a distant rellie of mine was in Christchurch in about 1914/5 - she was one of the beneficiaries named in the will of Roger PERCY of Melbourne Vic. Aust. - her father died in 1898 and her step-mother in 1914 - the same will was for both people.
Elizabeth SMITH (nee PERCY b 1837) was listed as living in Christchurch in the will.
Father Roger, mother Margaret - nee MALE - I think
It may be that I am looking for a death certificate really. I don't know her husband's name, or if she had any family -
It is possible she'd been in NZ for quite a long time, as she's been known by rumour rather anything else. This is the first time we've actual proof that she went there. Most of the family in Aus were half-siblings, as father had married again after his first wife's death.
Any help would be greatly appreciated - and Smith is such an easy name isn't it ::) ::) ;D
this is the link to the thread running on the Australian board for Roger and family.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,474179.0.html
Wiggy :)
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Any middle name, just to help a bit.
Suzy W
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Any middle name, just to help a bit.
Suzy W
Hi Suzy,
It would wouldn't it ::) - don't think she had one!! - not that we know of anyway!!
Wiggy :)
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Found this.. A few years out with age.
Elizabeth Smith
died Tuesday 13th August 1929
Buried Sydenham Cemetery
87 years
Last address 16 Conway Street
Widow
Born Australia
One other Elizabeth Smith also born in Australia died in Christchurch but age is way off.
Suzy W
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What I neglected to mention was that she was born in Tintagel, Cornwall and came to Aus - but when I don't know - before or after marriage I again don't know.
Sorry to be so unhelpful - she has only just emerged from the woodwork - we knew she was there but didn't know if she'd emigrated from England or died. It is only in finding the will that we have knowledge of her still being around.
She may possibly have married in Devon or possibly in South Aus.
I'll try to find out - Hmmm . . . . . seems I should have done a bit more homework before putting up this thread! Specially with a name like Smith!
Wiggy :)
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There were about 3 other Elizabeth Smiths buried in Christchurch born in England, and sadly the ages were no where near your Elizabeth Smith.
So was she named as Elizabeth Smith on her fathers will? She would of been on in age herself, and unlikely to of married again.
Unless she is buried in a private churchyard?
Suzy W
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NZ BMD has a Elizabeth with correct age, died 1923 reg no 6457 age 86
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Search/Search.aspx?Path=/cartRecordSubmit.m%3FReportName%3Dnzdth%26key%3D1923/6457
Suzy W
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Sorry Suzy - her middle name was Ann according to the will - just been back to find it.
sorry about that!! - :-[ :-[ :-[
thanks Suzy - that certainly fits the bill. Thank you so much!
Are there any electoral rolls, or things like that, which I could also search for any family please??
Wiggy :'(
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Yes she was named as Smith in her father's will - that's the only way we know about her!! Good work! not much to go on and you still found her - I presume!! . . . thanks! ;)
Wiggy :)
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Hi Wiggy,
The 1923 Elizabeth smith is buried in Dunedin and is a native of Scotland
http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/facilities/cemeteries/cemeteries_search?recordid=111146&type=Burial
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Thanks Janette - that's not her then - (unless whoever gave the info for the certificate didn't know Scotland from Cornwall! ;))
Can't see her relocating to Victoria at aged 77+ can you?? Just a thought! I'll look!
Wiggy :)
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Thanks Janette - that's not her then - (unless whoever gave the info for the certificate didn't know Scotland from Cornwall! ;))
Wiggy :)
Devon ?
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It looks like that Elizabeth was married to John Smith who died 1897 by the years in NZ they both arrived in 1861
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There is a marriage in VIC
Elizabeth Ann PERRY (sorry typo, PERCY it is)to Henry SMITH 1858
Sorry ancestry is playing up , can't give you the ref no
Annie
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Hi Annie,
Thank you!! I have just found that one - and when I looked she came up as Percy - the reference no is 3323. now going to try and find her arriving in Victoria!! These Percys - they are an elusive mob!
Wiggy :)
Edit to add - that is definitely the right lady! One mystery solved!!
Now getting her to NZ! :D
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They didn't leave Victoria until after 1861
- there is a son born in 1861 - William Edward - but no more children showing - up til 1870 so they could have left soon after 1861 me thinks.
Narrowing the time frame down!!
I wonder if Elizabeth could have died before her Step mother - surely they would have known though?? :-\ - still might be worth looking!!
Seems very odd!! I don't know if her name was on the original - I can't see that it was when I look at the will document.
Where I see her name is with all the other children in 1914 - and the fact that one daughter had died subsequent to Roger's death was noted - so there had been some things added/subtracted.
Wiggy :)
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Well I wonder if this is Henry Smith???
Henry Smith died 8 Jan 1909 age 53. Christchurch
Plasterer
Birth place, Australia
Died from T.B
Suzy W
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I wonder if these are their children
1875/6559 Smith Blanche Irene to Elizabeth Ann and Henry
1876/14752 Smith Lilian Ethel to Elizabeth Ann and Henry
1876/16680 Smith Samuel Smith to Elizabeth and Henry
1878/4487 Smith William to Elizabeth and Henry
1879/5969 Smith Phebe to Elizabeth and Henry
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Hi Suzy,
Re Henry's death - I don't think so - Henry was born 1832, in Appleby Derbyshire as I found out from the Marriage certificate.
Those births may be right Janette - though I would be a bit suspicious about the two born in the same year - I reckon they'd have had consecutive numbers if they'd been twins wouldn't they - I don't know mind you - just guessing. Also parents names recorded differently - - don't think it is right somehow!
I think the first two might be right!! - Blanche is a family name and don't know about Lilian - Long gap between William 1861 in Victoria and Blanche in NZ -!! ::)
- the last three :-\ - Hmmm -unless the earlier William died then probably not the William. Probably not, I think - seems to me the last three might belong together in one other family - the sequence is good though isn't it. You might be right - but I am not going to buy their birth certificates - too tenuous a link.
- it is really Elizabeth I am interested in - I know about having to go around the mulberry bush to come to the right answer - but finance is a consideration - specially for someone so tentatively related. ;)
Please folks I am very grateful for your looking, so don't get upset if I don't buy everything to confirm!
Wiggy :)
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Hi Wiggy
Was there a address for Elizabeth when she received her fathers probate? As this may narrow down the area of Christchurch she was living in.
I have found another Henry Smith buried Linwood and correct age born in England.. As you said it is a needle in a hay stack with so many Smiths, and both with common first names.
Suzy W
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Hi Suzy,
Unfortunately it just says of Christchurch NZ. No other address. When did people start voting in NZ - are there some electoral Rolls I could access which might give me a clue maybe?? Might also show children of age but living at home - That's how I've managed to find the rest of the family!!
It is a hard ask isn't it - Smith of all names!! I had Browns in Scotland - similar trouble - but we found him!! - - - In the long run!!
Wiggy :)
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This may be them
1896 Electoral Roll Lyttleton
Henry SMITH railway station master Opawa
Elizabeth Ann SMITH same address
Annie
Adding: Annie and Blanche Irene at same address
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Sounding good Annie - What year did NZ start having elections?? Were there any before that? Is Lyttleton far from Christchurch?? not that it matters - They could have moved in the subsequent years!!
Wiggy :)
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I'm not too sure - I only have 1881, 1893 and 1896
Lyttleton is a suburb, not far at all :)
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Am I able to view those electoral rolls Annie - if so where do I go?? :-\ You can't see them earlier that 1896 then?? Just realized you are in Aus - do you have special NZ records or are they available to all?
Wiggy :)
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Suzy,
Where is Linwood, close to Christchurch? - and when did that Henry die please? It might be him maybe??
Wiggy :)
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Am I able to view those electoral rolls Annie - if so where do I go?? :-\ You can't see them earlier that 1896 then?? Just realized you are in Aus - do you have special NZ records or are they available to all?
Wiggy :)
I have them on a CD, I can't see Henry earlier as a railway employee. Most big libraries should have the rolls available.
Linwood is another suburb.
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Can you see a William Edward Smith around the town Annie - just that he was a son born in Aus. Maybe he'd be old enough to vote himself - even be married - if they are the same family Janette found Blanche Irene yesterday - big gap from William Edward - but same parent's names so definitely possible - also a Lilian - see earlier post on page 2. William born 1861 , so 35 in 1896 - out and married in all probability.
The Annie on the roll might be a birth fitting between William and Blanche which would be good. Will look for her in Victoria - see if I can find her. :-\
Wiggy :)
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I nearly thought I had the right Henry Smith in Linwood as the next plot to him had his wife "Elizabeth" Sadly her age did not fit. Would you like the details for this couple?
Linwood is just over the hill from Lyttleton. There are 2 or 3 cemetery's over in Lyttleton, and most likely this Smith family will be buried over there, unless they moved more into Christchurch.
Suzy W
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May I add... Lyttleton is a major port. Many families lived and worked in Lyttelton during the mid to late 1800's. I have family also from this area, and like many families moved into Christchurch.
Christchurch City library site has some wonderful links to the history of early settlers in these areas, will be worth a look, it also gives links to the burial data base for council owned grounds, but if your Smith's are buried in a private church ground the task is going to be a bit harder.
Suzy W
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How far out was her age Suzy - we women do occasionally tell little white lies!! ;D ;D Was she also born in England?? Yes please to the details - you never know you luck!! It could be him - maybe ::) :-\ ;D ;D
Suzy - I am very grateful for anything you dig up - but don't burst your boiler doing it - if you are enjoying the chase, by all means continue and I will be so happy and thankful - but . . . . (it does get one in though doesn't it? ;))
I've just done another search of Victorian BDM up to 1874 and come up with nothing - so Annie must have been born in NZ. Janette found Blanche in 1875, and Lilian in 1876. No Annie - but to appear in the voting rolls in 1896 she'd have to have been born by '75 you'd think. :-\ Unless she is a rellie living with them. :-\
Wiggy :)
Edit to add: Just been back to look for William's possible death in Victoria - doesn't seem to be there so presuming he went to NZ with them.
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There was another son too born Collingwood
Henry Charles 1859
This may be him if they followed DAD,1896 electoral roll stationmaster at Mosgiel
A William Edward in dunedin as a railway employee ;)
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Burials All Saints Burwood
Elizabeth Ann SMITH 1921 aged 84
Henry SMITH 1923 aged 95
MI's from the Burial Locator
Annie
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Well done Annie
This will be a private church yard. Burwood is no where near Lyttleton, so looks as if they did move.
Suzy W
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Brilliant work both of you!! Many thanks! ;D
Collingwood is the place or the name Annie?? :-\ So Collingwood in Victoria - if the place -
if NZ, then not him I suggest as they were still in Victoria at least until after 1861 - (I think. ::))
going to look up Burwood and Mosgiel in NZ now!
Wiggy :)
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Yes Collingwood VIC ;)
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This may be them
1896 Electoral Roll Lyttleton
Henry SMITH railway station master Opawa
Elizabeth Ann SMITH same address
Annie
Adding: Annie and Blanche Irene at same address
Hi all,
I think your Henry lived in Opawa rather than Lyttelton. I believe the electorate Lyttelton extended over the hills and covered some parts of Christchurch itself, including the suburb of Opawa. Linwood is very close to Opawa. I'm a local! :)
Stephanie
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Thanks Stephanie - we are narrowing down the field - every little bit helps!! - Linwood? another suburb of Christchurch??
Just been RBTT - think we are discounting Linwood now - Burwood seems to be the go at the moment!! but Opawa sounds good!
That birth in Collingwood is a different family Annie - just been checking! worth a look though - thanks!
Wiggy :)
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Are you sure it is the wrong family Wiggy, mother is clearly Elizabeth Percy, father Henry ;)
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This is the link to All Saints http://www.burwood-anglican.org.nz/allsaint.html
Looks as if the church may of had a big make over, a modern building now. May be worth emailing the saxon for any details on a headstone.
Suzy W
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Another contact email just in case you have no luck with the other address.
http://www.chch.anglican.org.nz/Contact-Us.
I have had success before by going straight to the church and speaking to the Saxon. In your case a email may help.
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Annie, when I looked the mother was Elizabeth Dennis not Elizabeth Percy. :-\ :-\ Will i have to look again?? :-\ ;D Have I got the wrong one I wonder? there was only one registered for the time frame??? ??? ::) ;D
What does a Saxon do in the church Suzy? - that is a new one on me - ::) (You don't mean Sexton maybe do you?? they used to be the gravediggers in the old days in England) I will certainly follow that one up - thanks for the link!
Wiggy :)
Edit to add: looked again - only the one child in the time frame - Henry and Elizabeth Smith (nee Dennis!) And it doesn't say Collingwood in particular - this is the Vic BDM site - is that where you looked?? How odd! ???
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Hi Annie,
- I have just found where you read Elizabeth Ann Smith mother of Henry Charles Smith - in the Ancestry BDM - clearly it say Elizabeth Percy - (for William it ways Elizabeth Ann nee Percy)
I went to the Victorian BDM and paid to look - it said Elizabeth (Nee Dennis) - I wonder if it was a mis-transcription to one or the other sites??? ::) :-\
Well I'll never know unless I pay for the whole certificate - think I'd rather find the family leaving on a ship for NZ!! So that is where I'm trying next!!
Wiggy :)
What a lot of Smiths there are leaving Victoria - done 1862 and 1863 - makes it a bit difficult when the lists say Mr and Mrs - be nice if they said Mr Henry with his wife Eliz. Ann and their son Will'm!! ;)
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Opps! Meant to of put sexton (caretaker of the grounds and holds records), that is what happens when rushing, put wrong spelling.
Suzy W
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;D ;D ;D We forgive you Suzy,it can happen to all of us ;D ;D ;D
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Funny as I was thinking last night, I bet I put the wrong wording. Hungry children to feed and grumpy husband adds to distraction. Best to do this when they are not here. ;D
Suzy W
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;D ;D A good joint effort on this thread,Smith is not the easiest name
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Suzy,
Excellent effort under trying circumstances - I'm very grateful!
I've sent off an email to the people concerned - see what they can 'dig up' - not literally I hope!!
Wiggy :)