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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Topic started by: gayze on Wednesday 18 August 10 02:17 BST (UK)
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Hi and I hope I have posted this topic in the correct area. :-\
I already have Cenus for 1871 for this family, RG10/ 5575
John Williams born abt 1830 in Carmenthshire occup Miller.
Margaret born abt 1839 Millers Wife and the children at that time
William
Ann
John
Caroline...
but I am looking for the 1861 Census where I believe they had a child Rees..born abt 1859..
I am also looking for the 1881 Census when another child would have been added, Rowland born abt 1880 .
John was deceased by 1891 (I don't know when or where) and I have the census for 1891 onwards with Margaret as a widow..
John's son, John married in 1893 and he states his fathers occupation was Miller.
The only record I can find on the LDS 1881 Census is for a Shoemaker..
I feel I must have missed John Williams (Miller) in the 1881 census and can't seem to reconcile his going from a Miller to a Shoemaker.
I would really appreciate some help, :)
Thanks Gay
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Hi Gay,
you say you believe they had a son Rees b c 1859, however William is also shown as born at that time :-\
Do you know when John and Margaret married- could it have been after 1861 and John was married to someone else in 1861? (Not that I can match him up yet).
There are a few Johns who are Farmers and I wondered if they could become Millers - there is a stronger link than, as you say, a shoemaker :-\
Yet the shoemaker has John, Caroline and Rowland.
They do look very similar
regards
heywood
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Oops! Sorry about that.
I really made a mess of that didn't I? :-[ :-[ :-[
I have William born 1859,
Rees born abt 1863, but her doesn't appear on the 1871 Census.
Rowland born abt 1872,
These are from the LDS OPRs Llanddeusant, Carmarthen, Wales Batch
No. C099321
I have no idea when John (snr) married, or to whom...
The reason I am reluctant at this time, to accept the Shoemaker in the 1881 Census, is because of the greater age difference between John and Margaret, compared to the 1871 Census, despite the children being the same.
I agree that a Farmer is closer to a Miller than a shoemaker. :)
It seems odd , if indeed the father was a shoemaker in 1881, that on his marriage certificate, his son would identify the earlier occupation of his father as being a Miller, rather than his later occupation of Shoemaker. (If I haven't confused you, ços its confusing me) :-\
I am trying to narrow down the time frame for his death in the hope of identifying his parents.
John Williams is such a popular name in Wales... and I am assuming there is the normal naming pattern in Wales.
Sorry for the confusion....Its late and I need to go to bed to clear my head again, I think.
Gay
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If Rees was born in Llandeusant - registration district is Llandovery and there are several births and deaths for Rees Williams 1861-1871 :-\
Equally there are several possible marriages for a John Williams to a Margaret. If there was a second marriage.
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I know, I know. :(
There are just so many possibilities.. that's why I am looking for the death of John Williams (father) which might help identify his wife's maiden name, and his parents.
John the son, is found in the 1891 Census boarding with John Jones and his wife Emma ,
Jones families seem to be living in the same area and even next door in each of the Census..including a 68 yr old Rees Jones in the 1881 Census for the shoemaker.
I know it is as popular a surname as Williams, but perhaps Jones could be the maiden name of Margaret...but her death certificate is probably the only way to find that..
In 1911 Census Margaret Williams was 70 years of age and living at 27 Windsor Rd., Barry, Glamorgan
I've looked at the Free BMDs and there are just too many deaths for Margarets around the right age, that I think I have come to a dead end.
Any advice gratefully received..thanks.
Gay
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The death certificate will only give cause of death and the informant :(
Whoo is your ancestor? I just want to make sure you have the right family from which census.
heywood :)
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something to think about:
1861 RG9; Piece: 4118; Folio: 42; Page: 5
Village Llanddausant
John Williams 32 yrs Shoemaker b Brecon Ystrad
Ruth Williams 37 yrs b Llanddausant Carmarthenshire
Elizabeth Williams 11 yrs b Llangadock, Carmarthenshire
William Williams 2 yrs Llanddeusant, Carmarthenshire
William Leyshon visitor 83 yrs Llangake, Glamorgan
Free BMD has a death for a Ruth Williams March quarter 1862 Llandovery
If Rees was born c 1863 to John and Margaret - marriage would have to take place 1862-63
There is one- december quarter 1862- Margaret Prichard but then it all falls apart because I can't see her in 1861 :( So this speculation may be just that and amount to nothing.
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Just read the ages and it isn't that different in the two censuses:
1871 - 41 yrs and 32 yrs
1881 - 54 yrs and 41 yrs
That's not unusual in censuses
1851 HO107; Piece: 2470; Folio: 41; Page: 5
Margaret Prichard 11 yrs born Llandausant
father Rees
1861 RG9; Piece: 4118; Folio: 25; Page: 3
family here but no Margaret :(
I think Margaret is here- transcribed as Richard but census looks like Prichard ('r'- very small)
1861 RG9; Piece: 4118; Folio: 15; Page: 7
She is a servant.
So that is a theory to think about.
good luck
heywood ;)
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Thanks for the new options...and I had seen Ruth, and kept her in the back of my mind..but Pritchard is a new thought,
I am doing this for my brother in law..His grandparents were John Williams and Mary Power..(dau of Edward Power) mrd 1893
In 1901 They are in 108 Pothkerry Rd, Barry, Glamorgan..children Edward 5; Constance 4; May 2; and Wilfred 5 months.
Also in 1901 his mother Margaret is at 37 Harbour Rd, Barry, Glamorgan.
(Henry T, grandson may be the child of one of her daughters, Ann or Caroline)
In 1911, Constance is having a sleepover at Grans at 27 Windsor Rd, Barry.
John's birthplace is stated by the enumerator in the 1901 Census as Anglesey, but then in the 1911 as Llanddeusant/. Are they one and the same.. I'm afraid Welsh geography baffles me. :(
Perhaps John did revert to Shoemaking in the 1881 Census before he died...perhaps it was a less strenuous job than milling.
You've given heaps to think about. I'll get on to rechecking everthing again and hope my b-in-law has some little piece of information to help .
thanks and cheers for now
Gay
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From what I have gathered searching the censuses for this, there are 2 Llanddeusants- Anglesey and Carmarthenshire so it may well be that the enumerator just presumed it was Anglesey.
The Miller's house seems to be occupied by Daniel Watkins' family in 1861 and they are still there in 1871- his widow and family anyway. They are therefore 'next door' to John and Margaret.
What has been bothering me is that there is a 7 yr old Mary G Prichard with the Watkins as granddaughter and in 1881 she is Mary Gwen Pritchard with Thomas and Margaret Williams as niece.
There are too many Williams to try to connect but I did wonder whether that was why John was a Miller for a while. All too tenuous though.
good luck with your searching
heywood