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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: The-AC-Project on Sunday 15 August 10 22:41 BST (UK)

Title: Any Dates please
Post by: The-AC-Project on Sunday 15 August 10 22:41 BST (UK)
Can any info be gleaned from this photo to give a particular date?

I know the Foxfield Colliery was in existence from the early 1880's until eventually closing after difficult times in 1965.

The gentlemen concerned in the photo I presume to be the rescue team judging by the attire they are wearing

Thanks for looking

Al
Title: Re: Any Dates please
Post by: nickgc on Monday 16 August 10 00:53 BST (UK)
1900-1910.  Guess based on 6 of the 7 men having fairly bushy moustaches.

Nick
Title: Re: Any Dates please
Post by: macintosh on Monday 16 August 10 08:31 BST (UK)
Al,
This pic is Foxfield mine yet on a mines rescue site the same location is described as
 Mossfield  with the same Superintendant and the same background and the same Siebe- Gorman proto Breathing apparatus, ok the BA Sets are or were pretty standard throught the mine industry at this time, So there may be a mistake on either the web site or the legend on your pic. nickgc is probably right with the date timef frame, although the BA sets were still in use post ww1
www.minesrescuehistory   

James         
Title: Re: Any Dates please
Post by: The-AC-Project on Monday 16 August 10 12:39 BST (UK)
Many thanks to you both for the info.

James, what a find, I am speechless, as you say definitely the same mine re the background and same superintendant, Walter Clifford (Superintendent) standing centre wearing the same medals, certainly different group of rescue brigade, am wondering if they all went from different colliery's to have photo's taken at the same time.

Whilst there are slight changes to the background IE men in the background and wagon movement it's too uncanny.

I have forwarded my image to the website in the hope they will find a place within it as I am sure they would be proud to have their image displayed.

Many many thanks for your input

Al
Title: Re: Any Dates please
Post by: macintosh on Monday 16 August 10 13:16 BST (UK)
You are welcome, please let me know the outcome from the mines rescue site.

James
Title: Re: Any Dates please
Post by: salmynka on Monday 23 August 10 23:04 BST (UK)
just out of interest what are the medals the guy at the back is wearing?
Title: Re: Any Dates please
Post by: macintosh on Tuesday 24 August 10 08:47 BST (UK)
Salmynka,
They may be awards for particular acts of bravery during mine rescues or  they maybe just recognition of particular skills like First Aid or Breathing apparatus trainer etc,, the pic of the medal is so small any recognition from it is not possible, however go to www.heroes-of-mine.co.uk and you will see various awards and medals that were instituted for acts of heroism in mines rescue. ALBERT MEDAL, EDWARD MEDAL, GEORGE MEDAL  and other lesser awards in categories of silver and bronze, though I must admit I would find it unlikely a person of a prestigious award  such as the three mentioned would wear it for work unless it was a special occasion like the photograph.
You can just google coal  mines rescue and  coal mine disasters and lots of info is available.

James
Title: Re: Any Dates please
Post by: salmynka on Tuesday 24 August 10 09:54 BST (UK)
Thank you macintosh  :)
Title: Re: Any Dates please
Post by: nickgc on Tuesday 24 August 10 11:22 BST (UK)
The www.minesrescuehistory   link macintosh gave earlier has a brief bio of Walter Clifford and talks about at least one of the medals from what I recall.  Use this link instead
https://sites.google.com/site/minesrescuehistory/the-clifford-family/walter-clifford

Nick
Title: Re: Any Dates please
Post by: macintosh on Tuesday 24 August 10 11:30 BST (UK)
Salmynka
You are most welcome, the present day disaster in Chile brings into focus the work mine rescue teams do and the dangers they face, even with state of the art drilling equipment and camera and thermal imaging etc, these miners are not going to be rescued until Xmas, can you imagine the absolute terror of being entombed? andwhat a great thumbnail biography of Walter Clifford on the site Nickgc posted,
Just a note on the Edward medal, families of the person awarded the medal had the opportunity to replace it at a later date with the George Medal, few took the opportunity.

Regards
James
Title: Re: Any Dates please
Post by: trish1120 on Tuesday 24 August 10 15:42 BST (UK)
I  couldnt help myself and had to look for Walter.
In the 1881 Census he is a 18yr old "Unemployed" Coal Miner living with his Parents in Bramcote Moor, Notts
His Parents were Joseph Clifford and Hannah Walker.
Brother John was born c 1854 Bramcote.
RG11/3389/22/13
Title: Re: Any Dates please
Post by: plgriffiths on Tuesday 07 September 10 23:06 BST (UK)
Hi Everybody
A very interesting thread and one which does indeed include references to my relative, Walter Clifford (1862-1923).  I have more detail about him, his son Arthur and the early years of Mines Rescue on my website, which has recently relocated to www.heroes-of-mine.co.uk
I can advise that the two medals worn by Walter are the Edward Medal (Mines) 1st Class and an especially minted Gold Medal given to him and some of his colleagues. Both awards date from March 1908 and relate to the Hamstead Colliery fire in which Walter and his colleagues repeatedly attempted to rescue entombed miners from a burning mine. Again there is more detail on my site about the Hamstead Colliery incident.
I am indebted to "The-AC-project" for sharing this photo and it is my intention to include it on my website when I update shortly.
Hopefully someone may view the photo and be able to put some names to the gallant rescue team members?
As regards the date of the picture clearly, from the medals, it is post 1908 and, I am guessing here, pre 1911. Other pictures of him show a 3rd medal which was awarded by the North Staffs Colliery Owners and carried 'bars' for each rescue he was involved in. This medal, which carried his first bar from 1911, is not evident in the picture.
The fact that there is another picture on my site which appears to be almost identical (please excuse the oximoron!) is evidence that early mines rescue training teams, in a given area, all attended a central location for their training 'stint' and were therefore photographed in similar carefully orchestrated poses.
Title: Re: Any Dates please
Post by: The-AC-Project on Wednesday 08 September 10 19:48 BST (UK)
Many thanks Phil,

Unfortunately not gleaned any names at present, but to coin the well used phrase I know a woman who might so the search continues and I will certainly keep you informed via your site.

It is great to know you will add it to your very informative site, these men I am sure would look down with a smile on their faces.

Al
Title: Re: Any Dates please
Post by: autonm on Friday 10 September 10 20:25 BST (UK)
what are they wearing on the chests?
Title: Re: Any Dates please
Post by: salmynka on Friday 10 September 10 21:40 BST (UK)
what are they wearing on the chests?


at a guess breathing apparatus  :-\
Title: Re: Any Dates please
Post by: plgriffiths on Saturday 11 September 10 09:31 BST (UK)
Correct guess! See http://sites.google.com/site/minesrescuehistory/miscellany/proto-breathing-apparatus
Title: Re: Any Dates please
Post by: macintosh on Saturday 11 September 10 11:02 BST (UK)
See my earlier post on the BA

Regards James