RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: northernsearcher on Sunday 15 August 10 12:18 BST (UK)
-
Can anyone shed any light for me. I am looking at the Drivers from Thornton. Some family members lived in Main Street in 1861 and '71 but I can't find this street today (using Google earth) with a names like Main you would think that it would still be there. There is a Market St. which looks like a "main" street and a Bronte Old Road. Does anyone know if street names were changed and if there is an old street map of Thornton anywhere?
Thanks Jen
-
Hi Jen: I have ancestors from Thornton, so I thought I'd have a look online for maps of Thornton from the 1860s. No luck. But I did find Main Street in Wilsden, Bradford. which is three miles directly north of Thornton. I have no idea if there could be any connection between them
Can you search the census pages before and after the page(s) on which your Drivers appear? Other street or house or farm names will at least help you narrow the area down.
If you go to http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html, you can search a topographical map of the U.K. for Thornton. If you zoom in on the map to the second notch from the top, you'll get farm, house, and landmark names. You can also drag the map up and down and all around.
Regards,
John :o :o :o
-
Hi John thank you for your reply. The 1861 census has Charles Driver, his children and nephews and niece living on Main Street Thornton (Piece 3336; Folio 44 page 13). The 1871 census recorded (piece 4488; Folio 20; page 3) Charles Driver living in Main St as well.
Really good idea to search the streets near by why didn't I think of that! 0n the same page, 1861 c, there is Green Lane.
In about an hour I am going to see a friend across the Pennines in Howarth so I hope to visit Thornton. Maybe I can track down Main St on foot. I will take some photographs of other streets etc. Do you need any?
Many thanks also for the link to old-maps. I will try to persuade my friend to let me use her computer to check and log in to Rootschat to see if you want any pictures.
Best wishes
Jen
-
Hello Jen
I lived in Thornton in the 1970s and I do recall a 'Main Street'. Market Street is the road in the village and there is a house with a plaque showing where the Brontes lived before they moved to Howarth. However, it is not Main Street.
The road through Thornton from Bradford is Thornton Road and the only thing I can think of is this used to be referred to as Main Street in days gone by.
-
Added after originally posting this reply: Just noticed your mention of Green Lane in Thornton. I checked a map, and Green Lane intersects with Thornton Road, which may confirm Holmemoss' suggestion that Thornton Road was called Main Street at one time.
Hi Jen: Thanks for your kind offer. I could think of about a dozen pictures from Thornton I'd like to have. But as I live across a lot of water from the U.K., you've probably already checked your computer and gone off. If you see this reply before you go off to Thornton, the only thing that comes to mind is a place called Black Carr Farm. It's slightly west of the Headley Golf Club, which is slightly southwest of the the center of Thornton. My Dobson ancestors lived there at some point in the 1860s or so.
If you plan another excursion to Thornton, let me know ahead of time, and I might have a few photo requests.
Hi Holmemoss: I also thought it logical that Thornton Road would be called Main Street, but nothing I've seen or read has any mention of that. If Jen can "triangulate" from nearby streets, we might be able to deduce where Main St. was.
Regards,
John :o :o :o
-
My response was slightly misleading as I did not check what I had written before posting it.
I do recall" should have been 'I do not recall' so my suggestion that Thornton Road was once known as Main Street was just that; a suggestion.
-
Thornton Bell chapel
-
Hi Jen: Hope you had a productive visit to Thornton. Does your cryptic Thornton Bell Chapel mean that that is where Main Street is (or was)?
Regards,
John :o :o :o
-
Sorry - previous post was meaningless. I have been trying to post a message with photographs but am having some difficulty. So....I have posted on the technical board for help with that but as I have just got back from Howarth I thought I would do an update, without pictures for the moment, on my trip to Thornton.
First - John, so sorry I didn't manage to get to Black Carr Farm, the weather was pretty awful, wet, cold and gray and I only had a short amount of time. I visited the Bell Chapel and graveyard (opposite side of Thornton Road to St James's Church). That was really interesting, remains of a very old church, where, incidentally, the father of the Bronte sisters was the vicar. It was a very small ruined church and graveyard, quite Gothic, with huge tombstones all over the ground (see pic when I manage to upload it!). I found a few Drivers but, hopefully of more interest to you I found two Dobson stones as well. One was "In memory of Thomas son of Gilbert and Hannah Dobson of Thornton who died Jan 21st 1818 aged 10 yrs Also of Hannah their daughter who died Dec 21st 1819 age 11 months Also the above said Gilbert died May 5th bit missing 72nd year of his age The other one is for a Timothy Dobfson died April 18th 179- age 20yrs.
I made a bit of a mess of the photo's as I missed out the edges, so sorry, I will take them again when next I go to Howarth/Thornton if they are yours. You must let me know of anywhere else you might be interested in.
I also took some pictures of Prospect Mill, St James's Church and Kipping Chapel.
I didn't have any luck locating the missing Main St. I found Green lane which runs at right angles to Market St and stops at Thornton Rd. So I think I will need to find an old street map of Thornton for between 1861 and 1871, if such a thing exists, in order to get anywhere with that mystery.
Thank you Holmemoss for your suggestions and help.
Jen
-
Hi Jen: Thanks for looking for my Dobsons. There seem to be two lines of Dobsons in Thornton after 1800, but only one of the lines seems to be directly related to me. They may be connected a generation or so back, but I haven't been able to figure it out yet. There were lots of Dobsons in Thornton, and I haven't sorted many of them out.
Gilbert Dobson might be a direct ancestor or collateral relative of mine. I base that on the fact that my 3x great grandmother Susey Dobson (born Thornton in 1825) had a nephew or cousin (I think) named Gilbert Dobson, who might have been named after Gilbert Dobson. Gilbert Dobson and Hannah Dobson could be Susey's uncle and aunt or less likely her grandparents.
Timothy Dobson is from the Dobson line that doesn't seem to be related.
Hope you sort out out the picture problem. I tried to send you a PM about the your first reply of today here. Instead I clicked the wrong link and ended up at your thread about the image posting problem. I replied with a solution.
Regards,
John :o :o :o
-
Thanks John still working on that one. Think I may have shrunk it but not enough yet will try now.
Jen
-
Hi Jen: Thanks very much for posting the picture of the grave stone. My 3x great grandmother Susey Dobson left home in Thornton at age 15 to work at a cotton or woolen mill in Bradshaw, about three miles from Thornton. She lived with her uncle and aunt, John Dobson and Susey Dobson (nee Wood).
I assume this John Dobson was from Thornton. The young Gilbert Dobson I mentioned was either the son or grandson of John and Susey Wood Dobson. Either way, I think that links me to the Gilbert Dobson mentioned on the grave stone in your photo. He is either the brother or a cousin of Joseph Dobson (my 3x great grandfather and the father of 16-year-old Susey Dobson). John Dobson is Joseph Dobson's brother, I'm fairly certain.
But there are so many similary named Dobsons in Thornton that it's difficult to keep them straight. In the 1841 census my 3x great grandfather Joseph Dobson is living next door to a 65-year-old John Dobson. This John Dobson could be his father, his uncle, or a cousin, or possibly a distant relative.
Gets confusing.
Regards,
John :o :o :o
-
Hi Jen: Was Charles Driver--named in your first post on this thread--born in 1809, son of Thomas and Hannah Driver?
I found Charles while using the IGI batch numbers to search for the baptisms of Dobsons in Thornton. Many of my Dobsons became connected with Mount Zion Methodist Church (New Connexion) in Bradshaw, and I knew about their affiliation. I checked Mount Zion for Drivers, and found 14 born between 1730 and 1812.
I then searched the Kipping Independent Chapel in Thornton and found many Dobsons that I wasn't aware of. I also found 23 Drivers there born between 1809 and the mid-1820s, including Charles.
There's also a few Driver baptisms at Bethesda Wesleyan, also in Thornton.
Have you seen all of those folks?
John :o :o :o
-
Yes and No John
Yes this is the right Charles son of Thomas and Hannah and the brother of Samuel who was the father of Abraham who was my husband's great grandfather. Both Abraham's parents died before he was 17 and all four of Samuel and Betty's children are living in the vanished Main St with Uncle Charles by 1861.
No to everything else, I have only been doing family history research for 6 months and am only just beginning to "find my feet" as it were. Your information sounds fascinating. As yet I don't know what IGI batch numbers are and I have no idea how to search Kipping Chapel records on line. Perhaps you can tell me how? It's interesting that you found Charles in the Kipping records. This means that its likely that other members of the family were Congregationalists. The Drivers I found in the Bell chapel cemetery may or may not be connected. I found 10 Driver households in Thornton on the 1851 census without really covering the whole area. In case you're interested there is a small section on the history of Thornton in a Bradford Metropolitan District Council document "Thornton Conservation Area Assessment Oct 2003" Kipping Chapel is mentioned. It it can be found as a PDF file on Bradford Met's website.
I'm going to go off line now to try to shrink some more pictures. Will post when done.
Jen
-
Hopefully Dobson gravestone
-
Kipping Chapel and detail
-
Bell Chapel inscription and Bell Chapel graveyard
-
On a roll. Better picture of first Dobson Gravestone and detail of Prospect Mill. All for tonight.
Jen
-
Hi Jen: Very nice pictures. The leaf on the gravestone of Gilbert Dobson's son seems to be floating above it. Perhaps an unseen someone was there in the cemetery when you were there. Of course not. It was just the lighting.
Timothy Dobson is from the Dobson family that does not appear to be related to me. The stone says that he is from "nigh" Clayton. Clayton is a few miles east and slightly north of Thornton. Maybe that 's where the unrelated Dobsons originated.
I understand now what's going on with your Drivers in Thornton. I've sent you a PM about Batch searching and a link to the page to do it from. I was going to post it here, but the lesson got too long.
If you have questions, send me a PM, though I'll be offline for a while.
Regards,
John :o :o :o
-
Hi northernsearcher
I don't know where you are looking up the census records, but if you can see the original image on a***ry, you can also look at the Enumerator's description of that district
For Charles Driver in 1861
Just above the original image you should see
Yorkshire > Thornton > Thornton > District 3
click on District 3
You then need
County Yorkshire
Civil Parish Thornton
Sub-registration District Thornton
and you will get various districts including
District 3 View description of enumeration district
click on View description of enumeration district
About half way down it says
all the Houses on the South Side of the Main Street in the Village
so it's possible it didn't actually have a name
Linda
-
Doing the same for 1871 (except this time it's District 2!) still says the Main Street, but this time there are a few more road names and a few less descriptions like 'Obediah Ackroyd's Iron Monger Shop'. I'm sure that was very useful in 1871, but a little less so now :D
You can of course also Trawl through all the images in District 2. There are only 29! It's a good job you're not looking in the middle of London :D
Linda
Added - I think the Main Street probably became Market Street
-
1871 Fawthrop Hotel at Town Bottom is on 'Main Street'
1881 Fawthrop Hotel at Town Bottom is on Market Street
Can I stop now please :D
Linda
-
I have been following this thread with interest as I have a family of Dobsons in my tree including a Timothy Dobson born circa 1836. They lived in Sapgate Lane Thornton before moving to Horton.
Glad the location of Main Street has been found, little things like that tend to nag at me until they are resolved. Well done Linda. :)
Dave
-
Linda
You are a genius. Thank you so much. The excellent thing about Rootschat people is that you don't just help solve mysteries and discover missing people you actually help people to develop skills. I had looked through many pages of Thornton census data to find Drivers but never to locate places. Brilliant, I actually walked up and down Market St (Main St) so I could probably have found numbers 14 and 77.
I will be going back to Thornton but maybe not before Christmas so I plan to improve my photographs of grave stones, which were disappointing as I cut bits off. I am more than happy to take improved, I hope, pictures of these and of places in Thornton. If anyone wants any snaps let me know.
Dave
Maybe the Dobsons on the gravestones are yours as well as John's? I have a photograph of the end of Sapgate lane which leads into Market St, it is almost directly opposite the Kipping Chapel - now I can shrink pic's here it is.
Thank you again Linda and John for all your help in solving the mystery of the missing street and helping me improve my hunting skills.
Jen
-
little things like that tend to nag at me until they are resolved
They nag me too, which is why I can spend hours trying to resolve them! Perhaps I was a detective in another life - or maybe I'm just plain nosey (that's what my son says)
Glad to have helped :D
Linda
-
Well, like Rip Van Winkle, I seem to have slept through much of the excitement. One of my theories has been that the enumerator in 1861 in Thornton may not have been overly familiar with the town.
Census enumerators in the U.K.censuses were supposedly drawn from among the locals, so my theory may not be valid.
Another possibility is that Market Street and Main Street were used interchangeably by Thorntonians (is that the demonym?).
This is out of Malcolm Bull's territory, I think, but I wonder if he would know anything about it.
As for Dave the Tyke and me being related through the Dobsons: it would be nice to discover a relative, but I've not found a link to Timothy Dobson. In fact, my 3x great grandfather was living next door to another, slightly older, Dobson in 1841, and I haven't been able to link them to each other. I'm thinking they were either cousins or uncle and nephew, but their being brothers is also a possibility. I suppose the only solution is to order film from the LDS and get seasick trolling through it.
Regards,
John :o :o :o
-
Sorry Jen for hi-jacking the thread somewhat.
Hi John,
My Dobsons are quite distant but proved quite a challenge in my early research days. There were 2 people who married each other and both had been married before. Sidney Dobson b 1850 married Hannah Wilman 1872 Bradford, she also married John Sharpe 1887 Bradford. He had been married to Mary Pearson 1874 Bradford. All of the above were born Thornton as far as I know. A dau. of John and Mary's - Sarah Alice Sharpe b 1880 married my grandfather's brother in 1909 - she was the 1st of 3 wives ;D not only that but FreeBMD had got the transcription wrong. Next - Timothy Dobson's son Fred married Sarah's sister Mary 1896 again in Bradford. Nothing is simple in my family trees so you will forgive me if I don't get too enthusiastic over this :)
I take it that you are across the pond, glad to be of assistance whenever possible
Dave
-
Dave, hijack away, I like families that aren't simple .
Jen
-
Hi Dave: I meant to answer this hours ago, but my computer went down and I gave up after a bit trying to resuscitate it.
I am on the other side of the ocean from you. But a quarter or so of my DNA originated in Yorkshire.
I recognize the Fred Dobson of Bradford, but there may be more than one Fred originating in Thornton and moving to Bradford.
John :o :o :o
-
What wondrous and serendipitous things can be found on the Web. Thank you Northernsearcher for the info about Thornton. The gravestone from the Bell Chapel graveyard is almost certainly that of my g-g-grandfather Gilbert and my g-grandfather's brother and sister. My grandfather was John Dobson who I think was born in Horsforth (near Leeds) in 1806 to Gilbert and Hannah Dobson. They were from Thornton, though, and had moved back there sometime before 1822 when John's army records show he was attested in 1822 in the King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry (51st Foot) with which he served until 1848 when he left for Auckland, New Zealand with the NZ Fencible Regiment (pensioners/territorials). My grandfather Joseph was born in Onehunga (near Auckland) in 1852.
Like you and Johnnyboy (who seems to be related to me), I have found the Dobson's in Thornton very confusing. There are 2 Gilbert Dobsons born there abt 1777 (IGI), one with father John and the other with father Timothy. I have not been able to sort out which is my Gilbert, who I think died in 1848.
The other puzzle is the maiden name of Hannah. Her maiden name given in John's death entry in NZ is Brucebank. I think that is a variant of Brooksbank and while there are plenty of Brooksbanks from Thornton and other places nearby, none seem to fit. There was a marriage of a Hannah Brook and Gilbert Dobson in 1805 which would fit nicely. It is quite possible that the info in John's death entry is wrong, as the informant in the NZ family may have had little knowledge of the people in Yorkshire, whom they never met. Interestingly, 1 of the 1777 Gilberts may have had a mother with name of Brooksbank, as there is a record of a Timothy marrying a Brooksbank that would fit.
Anyway, enough for now.
Dobbie
-
Hello Dobbie
Welcome to roots chat.
There is no way I can add anything to your Dobson searches as I was just taking Dobson photographs for John while searching for Drivers. I am going back to Thornton in the New Year to search for more Driver records and to look up someone else entirely. If I see any more Dobsons I will post them here. Hope John and Dave the Tyke see this 'cos they may help with your Dobsons.
Jen
-
Thanks for your reply Jen. Your photos are pure gold to me. Thank you. I visited Thornton in 1996. We went to the Bell Chapel graveyard but it was so overgrown then and wet, as was the weather, that we didn't feel like searching. From your photo it looks like it has been cleaned up considerably.
Dobbie
-
Hello again Dobbie
I am glad you liked the photos. When I went to Thornton the Bell Chapel graveyard looked as though it had been lovingly restored and cared for. Of course it was wet - well it is the Pennines and on the edge of the Yorkshire moors! I was hoping to find links to my family there but although I found Drivers in the Church of England, Bell Chapel graveyard my immediate family relatives were in the non-conformist Kipping Chapel records. Hope you can find your Dobsons.
Jen
-
Like you and Johnnyboy (who seems to be related to me), I have found the Dobson's in Thornton very confusing. There are 2 Gilbert Dobsons born there abt 1777 (IGI), one with father John and the other with father Timothy. I have not been able to sort out which is my Gilbert, who I think died in 1848.
Hi Jen: Apologies that your Thornton thread has been utterly "repurposed."
Hi Dobbie. Welcome to Rootschat. I think Thornton is a little like the land of the lost when it comes to the Dobsons. I like finding cousins, but the closest I can safely claim is that you and I "may" be related. I can't even connect two Dobsons (my 3x great grandfather, Joseph, born about 1801, and John, born about 1796) who lived just a few houses away from each other in Thornton from 1841 to 1880.
Joseph Dobson and his family (wife is Hannah Longbottom) are enumerated in the 1841 census in Kilham (or Keelham), which is a mile or so south of the "urban core" of Thornton. One child who is not enumerated with them is daughter Susey Dobson, born 1825, who is my direct ancestor. In 1841 she lived with John Wood and his wife, Susan (nee Dobson), in Bradshaw (part of Ovenden Township), a few miles southwest of Thornton. The older Susan Dobson is the right age (35) to be Joseph Dobson's sister, but she may only be a cousin.
The Joseph Dobson and John Wood families are connected by membership in two chapels. They were first members of Kipping Independent chapel in Thornton. Later, both families joined Mount Zion Methodist New Connexion chapel in Ogden, which is close to Bradshaw. Two Dobson daughters were christened at Kipping chapel, and Joseph Dobson is buried in the Mount Zion churchyard. John and Susan Wood had children christened in both chapels. (Thanks to Jen, here, for planting the thought in my mind that I should search the Kipping records).
The 1841 census shows that John and Susan Wood had a son named Gilbert Wood, age 4. Christening records for Mount Zion chapel show that this was probably Gilbert Dobson Wood, born Nov. 12, 1836, christened March 6, 1837, parents John and Susan Wood. Not sure about this one. It may complicate things for me.
The marriage of Timothy Dobson and Sarah Brooksbank in 1762 in Bradford is a "submitted" marriage. I wouldn't trust it. The IGI batches for Bradford do not show this marriage.
The problem with Thornton is that some years of the parish registers are missing. The Bishop's transcripts,cover many of the missing years, but they are available only on microfilm.
Regards,
John :o :o :o
-
Hello There
I have lived in Thornton all my life. Main Street was either Market Street or Thornton Road but I am almost certain it was Market Street. There is a book called 'When I were a Lad'. It is amazing and describes old Thornton in amazing detail. Thought it may help I'm sorry I have forgot the Author.
Regards Lorraine
-
Hi Lorraine: Welcome to Rootschat. Nice to meet someone from Thornton, where part of my ancestry originated.
Thanks for your interest and help in determining what street in Thornton was called Main Street. My latest theory is that both Market Street and Thornton Road were called (at different times, of course) Main Street. What we need to settle the question is a few old maps, perhaps. Or a good reference librarian.
Thanks also for the mention of When I Were a Lad.... The author seems to be a fellow named Andrew Davies, not to be confused, I guess, with Andrew Davies, the fellow who wrote the screenplays for the Bridget Jones movies and the scripts for the BBC productions of Pride and Prejudice and Little Dorrit.
Andrew Davies No. 1, author of When I Were a Lad..., also seems to have written When I Were a School Lad.... Neither of these books, unfortunately, are available where I live (outside of the U.K.).
Regards,
John :o :o :o
-
Hi There All,
What a fascinating thread this has been to follow!
Just to further confuse johnnyboy and Dobbie, ??? here is a snippet I found while checking some transcriptions for BFHS. (Some of you may know that we have begun to record the MIs and transcribe the Kipping Chapel Records in order to produce a CD later this year)
Kipping Chapel: Guilbert Dobson, son of Isaac and Betty Dobson born 26th May 1806, bapt 1st July 1806
Also came across
Hannah, dau of James and Malley Driver, born 22nd Aug bapt 2nd Oct 1806
Hannah, dau of Thomas and Hannah Driver, born 21st Dec 1806 bapt 17th Feb 1807.
Regards,
Deetot
-
Hi Deetot: Thanks for the reply. And good luck with the indexing of Kipping Chapel records.
If you are indexing the Bs, the Ms, and the Ds of Kipping Chapel, some of my Dobsons are in there. The IGI has two Anna Dobsons baptized on November 17, 1823 at Kipping Independent. One of the Annas is the sister of my 2x great grandmother. Mary Dobson, another sister of my 2x great grandmother, was baptized at Kipping on Feb. 4, 1822. But the family seems to have joined Mount Zion Methodist New Connexion church some time after this. And siblings of my 2x great grandmother were being baptized at Mount Zion as late as 1837. Sadly, my 2x great grandmother, Susey Dobson, born 1825 or so, is not in the IGI. Perhaps the parish register page is missing. Or maybe they left her a heathen. ;)
There is also a John Dobson baptized at Kipping the same day as the two Annas. The three must have been baptized in the same ceremony. They have different fathers: Thomas (Anna), Joseph (Anna), and Isaac Dobson (John).
This John Dobson seems to be the brother of Guilbert Dobson, the son of Isaac and Betty Dobson. A third child of Isaac and Betty (she's named Elizabeth in the IGI entry) is named Joseph. He was baptized on May 30, 1820.
I think the fathers Thomas, Joseph, and Isaac Dobson are related, but I have no idea how they might be.
And it gets more complicated. My 3x great grandfather Joseph Dobson, the father of Anna and Mary, lived in very close proximity to (sometimes next door; sometimes two houses away) a John Dobson who was a few years his senior. They were neighbors for 40 years, but I can't prove any relationship between them, nor among any of the other Dobsons.
Thomas, Isaac, Joseph, and John Dobson might be brothers, near cousins, or even distant cousins. Perhaps they never spoke with one another.
Does this make anyone's head ache?--in the way that mine does when I spend more than a few minutes at a time trying to sort out the Dobsons.
Maybe I should switch to the Drivers. I'm sure that Jen would appreciate that. Then her thread wouldn't be continually steered off course.
John :o :o :o
-
Hello All my turn to hijack my post! I’ve been out of the loop for a while for various reasons; it’s good to be back and following the thread again. I haven’t been totally idle and have managed a very brief visit to Thornton. I found the Kipping Cemetery, the one that Deetot and the Bradford Family History society have been reclaiming and transcribing. It was a wonderful old graveyard, very beautiful. I took some photo’s which I put on AntonP’s Thornton Kipping Cemetery post. I was looking for AntonP’s, Rev. Joseph Cockin as I had promised I would the next time I went to Howarth. It was only a quick visit and having climbed over the wall into the cemetery (on the instructions from the really helpful man in the Garage on Thornton Road) I failed to find any Cockin, Dobson or Driver headstones. In my defence I have to say it was very wet and I was wearing the totally wrong shoes. Deetot is way ahead of me here. I am planning to go back again. Next time (with climbing boots) I am hoping to look at all the headstones and photograph those of Cockin, Dobson and Driver.
As far as the identity of Main Street is concerned I am working my way through John’s suggestion using the National Archives Historical Streets Project, I have to cross reference this with Census records so I am working my way through it slowly. John you are right what I/we really need is an old map.
So thank you everyone for the work you have been doing looks like we might get there eventually!
Jen
-
Oh forgot to say that I am delighted with the Driver find Deetot. Hannah daughter of Thomas and Hannah Driver is the sister of my children's ggggrandfather. So yes John swap to the Drivers. Then we can work on them together!
Jen
-
Hi Jen: Welcome back to your thread. I've been away too, so the thread hasn't been taken as far away from the Drivers as it might have been if I weren't so busy writing up a research project.
What follows is some compensatory searching in the IGI for Drivers. It was meant to assuage the my guilt. But, ironically, during the search for your Drivers, I may have discovered something about my 3x great grandfather Joseph Dobson. But enough about me...I'll keep you in suspense until I've posted what I found about the Drivers.
Using the batch search at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/%7Ehughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyYorkshire_(T-Z).htm#PageTitle
I found:
In IGI Batch P009141, there are the following children with Thomas and Hannah Driver as parents.
John Driver born 4 Dec 1793; christened 5 Jan 1794 Kipping Independent
David Driver born 15 Dec 1797; christened 11 Feb 1798 Kipping Independent
Joseph Driver born 22 Feb 1800; christened 1800 (no day or month) Kipping Independent
Thomas Driver born 8 Jun 1802 christened 1 Oct 1802 Kipping Independent
Hannah Driver born 21 Dec 1806; christened 17 Feb, 1807 Kipping Independent
In IGI Batch C009142, there are the following children with Thomas Driver and Hannah Driver as parents. They seem to be siblings of the above children.
Charles Driver born 16 Apr 1809; christened 13 Jun 1809 Kipping Independent
Samuel Driver born 27 Dec 1811; christened 28 Feb 1811 Kipping Independent
Betty Driver born 21 May 1814; christened 18 August 1814 Kipping Independent
Abraham Driver born 13 Feb 1817; christened 31 Oct 1817 Kipping Independent
John Driver born 8 Jul 1822; christened 10 Apr 1822 Oct Kipping Independent
Apparently, the first-born John Driver passed away before 1822.
Hope this adds to--or at least confirms--what you already know.
As for Joseph Dobson: I searched for Dobson births in IGI Batch C108152, which covers the years 1730-1812. Joseph Dobson is born 1797, the son of Joseph Dobson and Elizabeth Illingworth. I believe this is my Joseph Dobson. But none of the 40 other Dobson children in the batch were born to Joseph Dobson and Elizabeth Illingworth. That puzzled me until....there was a light bulb glowing over my head.
One explanation: Joseph Dobson may have been an only child, or at least the only child of this marriage. He may have been an only child because his father died. It seems more likely that his father would have died because he has no siblings that I can find with the last name Dobson. If that was the case, his mother may have remarried, leaving the possibility that he had half-siblings.
But there is a problem with this explanation: My 3x great grandmother, Joseph's daughter, went to work in Ovenden, a few miles away from Thornton. She lived with John and Susey Wood. Susey's maiden name was Dobson, and I've thought until now that she was Joseph Dobson's sister. But I've not been able to find her birth to confirm this.
See? This is why my head hurts when I think about the Dobsons.
Regards,
John :o :o :o
-
Good to be back John. Thank you for your contribution to the Driver picture. I hadn’t picked up the last John Driver, maybe because I am poor at maths! I think it’s strange to “replace” a dead child by giving another child the same name but it does seem to happen quite frequently. I still think it’s odd. Your Dobson’s are getting more and more confusing, no wonder your head hurts, I have a similar problem with another branch of my family which I will have to ask for help from Rootschat very soon out of sheer frustration. Maybe someone will read this thread that has an interest in Dobson’s and offer you an explanation. Your Illingworth connection is interesting. I have come across the name over and over again when trawling Thornton census records. I think they must have been a Thornton family. I think there were Illingworth’s in the Bell Chapel cemetery and the Kipping cemetery. As far as Main Street is concerned, I am at the moment coming down on the side of Market St. Having visited Thornton twice now I think that the narrower and older looking of the two streets is Market Street. But hey, Thornton Road could have been widened; it certainly is a “main” road but as far as I know that could have been after clearing poor housing and modernisation. I do hope we get a definite answer.
-
Hi Jen: If you have access to the censuses on Anc**try, I think you can find descriptions of the boundaries of the individual enumerations districts as part of the census records. You might look at the description of the enumeration district that Charles Driver and family lived in 1861 to see if the description uses "Main Street" (a proper noun) or "the main street" (a common noun that indicates the street's function and importance). That might provide an answer to the burning question.
How you access the descriptions of enumeration districts, I'm not sure. But I will be at the library today and will have a look around on the computer if I can.
As for the two John Drivers: Families memorialized the first child by giving the name to a subsequent child. The custom is widespread. It happened on the Italian side of my family.
Regards,
John :o :o :o
-
Thanks John
Will do the English language bit - although I am pretty sure it was Main St.
Jen
-
Hi All,
In doing some research for AntonP (another thread) I found a book compiled by Michael Smith, 2003 which is called "Market Street, Thornton" and produced by the Thornton Antiquarian Society. This has lists of residents of many of the older properties over the years.
Quote "Before the 19th Century, Market Street (which at various times has been called Village Street, Town Street, Main Street or Thornton Street) was the main highway from Bradford either to Halifax or the Dales area." The book has 116 Market Street lived in by Nathan Driver "shopkeeper" in1893 but no Dobsons. The road that is now the main road is Thornton Road and by passes the older part of the village and was at one time called New Road.
Hope this helps.
Deetot
-
So the main road would have gone along what is now Old Road, across the missing bit to Bronte Old Road, Market Street (Main Street) and Kipping Lane. Nice one Deetot
-
Hi Deetot: Thanks for your reply. I think it settles the question.
But as a footnote to the search: Last week I read the descriptions of some of the 1861, 1871, and 1881 census enumeration districts in Thornton. I wrote a reply to this thread the other day about Market Street's probably being Main Street, but I decided not to post it because I could not get a definitive answer. The enumeration district descriptions that I read used the phrase "the main street" when describing the boundaries of the district in question. "Main Street," the proper noun, was not used in the descriptions. It was only used on the actual census pages themselves. And it was almost impossible to figure out where streets actually were just from reading a description of the borders of the enumeration district.
The big surprise is that Main Street is not the only problematic street name in Thornton. Some time after 1861 there seems to have been a renaming of streets there. How many new or renamed streets there were, I'm not sure. But I did find Commercial St. and Industry St., both of which should have been near Market Street, what is now Thornton Road (New Road in 1871), and Green Lane.
The 1861 census had Rose Cottage, New Road Side, Old Mill Yard, for example. By 1871 those names were gone.
Searching an online map just now, I can't find Commercial St. or Industry St. And Green Lane seems not to be there either.
John :o :o :o
-
John,
Commercial Street and Green Lane run South from Market Street. Green Lane crosses (New) Thornton Road and runs for some distance before becoming Headley Lane. I don't know about Industry Street. Info from W. Yorks Bradford, Halifax etc A-Z Street Atlas
Dave
-
Hello All
I am wondering where we are getting to with this one. I have just re-read the Bradford Metropolitan District Council Conservation Area Assessment doc. (written Oct. 2003). Here are a couple of bits of info. transcribed - or copied! from that document which may give some more clues.
As late as 1800 there were still only 23 dwellings forming the village, 3 of these were public houses (it seems that at this time that Thornton was a "cluster of hamlets". I suppose an example of which was School Green where some of my Drivers lived).
The Bronte family lived at 72 -74 Market St (BMDC description of the street) between 1815 and 1820. Interesting that they give this street the name Market St as far back as 1815 but there is, as far as I can see, no Market St. in Thornton on the 1841, 1851 and 1861 census records.
Thornton Road was constructed in 1829 and therefore the old village was preserved and unchanged etc.
Now, I have Drivers - who were both Hand Loom Weavers - home based, and Power Loom Weavers who presumably worked in one of the 3 Thornton Mills, living in main or Main St. Thornton in 1861. As far as I can tell there were more older properties in what is now Market St than in Thornton road but.... there were some older properties in Thornton Rd. aa well.
Jen
-
John,
Commercial Street and Green Lane run South from Market Street. Green Lane crosses (New) Thornton Road and runs for some distance before becoming Headley Lane. I don't know about Industry Street. Info from W. Yorks Bradford, Halifax etc A-Z Street Atlas
Dave
Hi Dave: Thanks for that. Multimap (now Bing Maps) didn't show either of those two
John :o :o :o
-
In doing some research for AntonP (another thread) I found a book compiled by Michael Smith, 2003 which is called "Market Street, Thornton" and produced by the Thornton Antiquarian Society. This has lists of residents of many of the older properties over the years............................................................... ..........The book has 116 Market Street lived in by Nathan Driver "shopkeeper" in1893 but no Dobsons.
Hi Deetot:
I saw this Michael Smith quoted at length in an article about Thornton that appeared in the Bradford newspaper a few years ago. I found the article in a search related to Thornton. Mr. Smith was described as the "town historian"--or something to that effect.
My Dobsons lived for many years in the valley that paralleled Thornton Road, south of the village. The area was called Keelham. They lived on Pit Lane and Black Carr Farm. There is now a golf course near Pit Lane.
John :o :o :o
-
Hello All
I am wondering where we are getting to with this one. I have just re-read the Bradford Metropolitan District Council Conservation Area Assessment doc. (written Oct. 2003). Here are a couple of bits of info. transcribed - or copied! from that document which may give some more clues.
As late as 1800 there were still only 23 dwellings forming the village, 3 of these were public houses (it seems that at this time that Thornton was a "cluster of hamlets". I suppose an example of which was School Green where some of my Drivers lived).
The Bronte family lived at 72 -74 Market St (BMDC description of the street) between 1815 and 1820. Interesting that they give this street the name Market St as far back as 1815 but there is, as far as I can see, no Market St. in Thornton on the 1841, 1851 and 1861 census records.
Thornton Road was constructed in 1829 and therefore the old village was preserved and unchanged etc.
Now, I have Drivers - who were both Hand Loom Weavers - home based, and Power Loom Weavers who presumably worked in one of the 3 Thornton Mills, living in main or Main St. Thornton in 1861. As far as I can tell there were more older properties in what is now Market St than in Thornton road but.... there were some older properties in Thornton Rd. aa well.
Jen
Hi Jen: I think you're wondering whether or not this thread is "completed." One question, the one you first brought up, has been answered, but there are always many more to be answered.
In case anyone is interested: I found two books on Thornton that might be interesting: Granny's Village by Roger Mason, published 1977, and Thornton - Who'd 'Ave Thought It?, which apparently is a collection of newspaper articles about Thornton and its people from 1751 to 1938 compiled by the Thornton Antiquarian Society. It's published by Bank House Books, but is expensive. If you want it, you should hunt it up in a library.
John :o :o :o
-
I forgot to mention that the description of Enumeration District No. 1 in the 1891 census for Thornton did mention Market Street (rather than Main Street or "the main street."
Also, the description for Enumeration District #2, 1891 census ended at Isaac Dobson's Beerhouse. The census taker was probably glad of that. Perhaps Isaac Dobson's Beerhouse was the local for Charles Driver's sons. Unfortunately, I have not connected my Dobsons with Isaac Dobson.
John :o :o :o
-
As late as 1800 there were still only 23 dwellings forming the village, 3 of these were public houses (it seems that at this time that Thornton was a "cluster of hamlets".
And therein lies the probable answer .. Thornton wasn't big enough to hold or didn't hold a proper market until after 1861 and because it was more or less a one street village the main street would be the logical place to hold it.
Dave
-
Hi All
First of all I can I thank everyone who has contributed to this thread in such a helpful and positive way. People have provided such a lot of really useful and informative comment as well as answering my original query. My picture of the village of Thornton in the 1800’s and the information I have on the Driver family has been greatly increased. As well as that all the diversions and sidetracks have been just as interesting.
I checked out both the book mentioned by Deetot and those mentioned by John on line today. The book Deetot discovered Market Street Thornton by Michael Smith, the one which finally gave us the answer to the street name question seems to be unavailable. I wonder where you saw it Deetot? The Nathan Driver mentioned in the book is Nathan born 1839 who was the eldest son of Samuel and Betty Driver. Samuel was the seventh son of Thomas Driver and Hannah Wade mentioned earlier in the thread by John. The other book from the Thornton Antiquarian Society is as John said a bit expensive so I will try the library for both books.
This thread began after my first visit to Thornton to try to get a sense of the place where the Driver’s came from. I wanted to take photographs if possible of houses they had lived in, places they had worked and worshiped and also places where they were buried. I am still not sure which house in Main/Market St the four children of Samuel lived in with their Uncle Charles and his children after they became orphans but I do have the beginnings of a real sense of the community of Thornton.
I will be going back hopefully in late spring to take more pictures including, if I can find it, Black Car Farm, John. I will certainly revisit the Kipping graveyard and hunt for Dobsons and Drivers. Any other places of interest you would like pictures of?
Thanks again Jen
-
Hi Have been following the thread with interest, as I am in direct line of Samuel and his son Nathan Driver ( and connect with Jenny - Hi Jen!) Just to add a little to the info on background reading resources. The Michael Smith "Market Street Thornton" book is easily obtainable on inter-library loan in Bfd Met, as is the "Thornton- Who'd have thought it"compiled by Thornton Antiquarian Soc. However, 'Granny's Village' by Roger Mason is about Thornton in Craven rather than 'our' Thornton in Bradford.
-
Well done Brenda. (And thanks for the picture)
Jen
-
...However, 'Granny's Village' by Roger Mason is about Thornton in Craven rather than 'our' Thornton in Bradford.
Thanks for clarifying this.
John :o :o :o
-
Well done Brenda. (And thanks for the picture)
Jen
I think it should also be Well done, Jen. It was you who posed the very interesting question that started all of this.
Send me a PM when you get ready to set off for Thornton (I haven't been getting notified by Rootschat of replies to this thread). I may have done some additional research by then.
Regards,
John :o :o :o
-
Hello John
I’m not due to go to Thornton until the summer and I will let you know before I go. Thought I might post this as a PM but then I thought others might be interested as well. I found a website selling old maps and although they are a bit pricey you can get to have a good look at them before you decide if it’s worth it. The site is http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html?coords=409900,432700 There are three maps 1852, 1893 and 1894. In the bottom left of one map, Black Carr Farm is marked. The earliest map really shows how Thornton was “a cluster of hamlets” as someone pointed out. Fascinating, there’s even a place called” who would have thought it”
Jen
-
Hi people, I'm new here, and am not sure if I'm putting this post in the right place, but it seems to have the most relevance.
I am researching Gilbert DOBSON and his wife Hannah nee BRUCEBANK,
parents of John Rit Dobson, born 1806 Thornton (or nearby), Yorkshire.
John Rit Dobson emigrated to New Zealand in 1849 with the Fencibles. His wife was Elizabeth Hannah. The only information about his parents was found in John's obituary, and I am trying to find out more about them.
I am researching on behalf of a descendant in New Zealand. I welcome your guidance in this. :)
Thanks.
Marie
-
Hi Jen: Excuse the delay in answering. Have been busy on a writing project that's due soon.
Thanks for the pointing out the Old Maps site. I’ve used it before, but I hadn’t seen all of the maps of Thornton there. Black Carr is the name of a farm and the name of the area where the farm is located--the valley immediately to the southwest of Thornton. I've recently learned, after looking in the dictionary, that a carr is a fen or marshy area. On one of the topographic maps I looked at, you can see a number of springs near to one another that were/are the source of water for the fen.
I’m not certain whether or not Joseph Dobson lived on Black Carr Farm itself. When he bought a grave plot in the churchyard of Mount Zion Chapel (a few miles away from Thornton) for his first wife, Hannah (my 3x great grandmother), the record listed his residence as Black Carr. I do know, however, that he lived in three different places in Black Carr for thirty to forty years--in a little grouping of houses (hardly even a hamlet) called Keelham, at Lane Bottom, and at Lower Sandal Farm. These three places are bounded by Deep Lane (west), Brighouse-Denholme Road (south), Pit Lane (east), and Malt Kiln Lane (north).
Interestingly, the 1894 map of Thornton shows a Pit Lane Bottom that is nowhere near Pit Lane. It's directly across the Brighouse-Denholme Road from Black Carr Farm. But the 1852 map has that Pit Lane Bottom as Lane Bottom. The same map shows a second Lane Bottom, this one on Pit Lane. Two dips in the road, perhaps?
Regards,
John :o :o :o
-
Hi Marie: Welcome to Rootschat. According to the IGI, your John Rit Dobson was born in 1806 in Horsforth, which is now part of Leeds. He seems to have died 17 June 1883. Other children listed are Wm. (abbreviated as such), born 1800, Thomas, born 1807, and William, born 1810. If the information is correct, the first William probably died young and the second William was named in his honor.
This information is from Zion Calvinistic Baptist Church in Horsforth. Information was also submitted by some unknown person to the IGI. I couldn't connect the parents--Gilbert and Hannah--to Thornton.
I suggest that you put a request on the Yorkshire Look Up board for help in finding the family in the 1841 and the 1851 censuses. The 1841 census may give you additional children, but it will only tell you that they were born in Yorkshire or not. If Gilbert or Hannah is enumerated in the 1851 census, you may learn their place(s) of birth. And you might be able to get more information about John Rit Dobson's siblings.
Hope this helps.
John :o :o :o
-
Thanks for such a speedy reply. :D
I looked at the Yorkshire threads, but became confused by the different Ridings. I wasn't sure which one to post in, lol. I chose to start here because the Dobson name occurs frequently.
Many thanks for your help. :D
-
Hi Marie: Hope the omission hasn't confused your even more. I should have been specific and pointed you to the Yorkshire West Riding Lookup board. My English connections came from the West Riding, so I usually think of that when I'm researching.
Regards,
John :o :o :o
-
Hi all
Can I add that I am still hanging on in there, hoping that a positive connection might be made to my Dobsons. Jonas 1819 married to Sarah ? is my earliest. In 1881 he was a pit manager living at Keelham Hill. He died 1882 in a pit accident.
Marie, Ridings is old English for thirds. Yorkshire is divided into North, East and West Ridings. This is the West Yorkshire board that your Dobsons should be on but it seems that they were not a Thornton branch so perhaps this thread is not the right one. Like me you are looking for a connection so stick with it and good luck.
Dave
-
Hi all
Can I add that I am still hanging on in there, hoping that a positive connection might be made to my Dobsons. Jonas 1819 married to Sarah ? is my earliest. In 1881 he was a pit manager living at Keelham Hill. He died 1882 in a pit accident.
Dave
Hi Dave: Consider "Keelham" to be your lucky word today. That's where my 3x great grandfather Joseph Dobson (circa 1801) lived side by side or a few houses away from John Dobson (b. circa 1795) for almost 40 years. I remember seeing a Jonas Dobson in one census or another in Thornton, so as soon as I read Keelham in your reply, I checked my census files.
In the 1851 census I found Jonas Dobson (32 years old) married to Sarah and enumerated in Keelham with children William, Thomas, Dinah, Jane, Daniel, and on the next page, another son, Sidney and a lodger, Elizabeth Wood. On either side of Jonas Dobson a John Dobson (and family) was enumerated. One John Dobson was 55 years old; the other was 27 years old and was with wife Elizabeth and sons Jonas and Richard.
I looked at birth records for the Kipping Independent Chapel but didn't find a Jonas Dobson. But I did confirm from those records that John Dobson (age 27 in 1851) was the son of John Dobson (age 55 in 1851).
What I didn't do was look in the records for the Bethesda Wesleyan Chapel (another Nonconformist chapel in Thornton) because I didn't remember, from previous searches, finding any Dobsons christened there.
Instead I went to the IGI. That's where I found your Jonas Dobson. He is the son of John Dobson born 1795, I'm sure) and Betty Dobson. The IGI has him born 17 JAN 1819 and christened 09 MAY 1819 at Bethesda Wesleyan, in Thornton. I should have ignored not remembering Dobsons at Bethesda Chapel.
In my defense (pardon my use of The President's English, rather than the Queen's), though, I have to say that John Dobson and wife Betty had children christened at three different places near Thornton: Kipping, Bethesda, and Mount Zion Methodist New Connexion chapel in Ovenden.
In the 1861 census, Jonas Dobson is enumerated living at Sandel (should be Sandal) Hill with Sarah and children Dinah and Jane, and spilling over to the next census page are children Daniel, Sidney, Grace, Margaret, and George. The next enumerated family on this second page is John Dobson, age 67 and working as a tax collector. On the same page as Jonas Dobson is his brother John Dobson with wife Elizabeth and children Jonas, Richard, Mary Ann, William, and Emma. Next door to John (two doors from Jonas) is my 3x great grandfather Joesph Dobson.
I still have no direct evidence that John Dobson (born 1795) and son Jonas are related to my 3x great grandfather Joseph Dobson.. But if they are, then you and I would be fourth or fifth cousins.
The places noted here are in an area called Black Carr, which is in the middle and western part of the valley that runs east-west to the south of the center of Thornton. Keelham Hill should be read as Keelham Hall. Keelham Hall is on the Brighouse-Denholme Road, where it intersects Deep Lane. Sandal Hill must be in the center of Black Carr, where adjoining farms are called Upper Sandal Farm and Lower Sandal Farm.
On the U.K. National Archives site I found an entry for a Jonas Dobson leasing a coal mine in 1702 in Thornton, probably in Headley, which is in the same valley a short distance east of Black Carr. I've also seen a mention of an Isaac Dobson leasing a coal mine in Thornton in the 1690s.
Regards,
John :o :o :o
-
I still have no direct evidence that John Dobson (born 1795) and son Jonas are related to my 3x great grandfather Joseph Dobson.. But if they are, then you and I would be fourth or fifth cousins.
Some amazing research there John but I'm afraid it is a bit more complicated than that with my lot as I think I mentioned in an earlier posting.
Jonas and Sarah had a son Sidney 1850 - 1880 who married Hannah Wilman. After his death she married John Butterfield Sharp who was himself a widower. His previous marriage to Mary Anne Pearson produced a daughter Mary Elizabeth Sharp 1877 who married Fred Dobson son of Timothy Dobson and Alice Yeadon (they lived in Sapgate).
Another daughter of John Sharp and Mary was Mary Alice Sharp who married my great uncle Mark Greenwood Bland (1st of 3 marriages).
I wouldn't normally have looked so far into a great uncles ancestors but my 4x g gran was Elizabeth Wilman so there was a possibility of a double connection.
Best regards
Dave
-
Hi Marie: Hope the omission hasn't confused your even more. I should have been specific and pointed you to the Yorkshire West Riding Lookup board. My English connections came from the West Riding, so I usually think of that when I'm researching.
Regards,
John :o :o :o
Thanks for the heads up, John. :D I took your advice and looked through the LDS site and found that Horsforth seems to be the most frequently recurring place name. I asked about Thornton because previous information pointed me in that direction.
Thanks to Dave for the information about Ridings. I've always wondered why that name, lol! ;)
Marie :D
-
John,
It seems probable that my Timothy who lived in Sapgate is the same one as your Timothy, son of John and Elizabeth. I don't see another in the area at the right time. Small DoB discrepancy in some of the census details but again, the baptism at Ovenden 26 Feb 1837 fits because several of John's children were done 'job lot'.
Dave
-
Hello Marie. Have just returned to Rootschat after moving to NZ.
The John Rit Dobson you refer to was my g-grandfather (see my post 10 Nov 10. While he and some of his brothers were born in Hosforth (IGI ref). Johnny boy has that pretty right. They were from Thornton and had returned there by 1822 at least as John was inducted into the army (51st Foot) then. He had sisters Mercy and Maria and I think some more brothers born in Thornton. A photo of a grave stone earlier in this thread appears to be Gilbert's (John's father) and 1841 Census shows him living there.
-
On a roll. Better picture of first Dobson Gravestone and detail of Prospect Mill. All for tonight.
Jen
Hi Jen,
I am wondering if you are able to tell me the year of death for Gilbert Dobson, please? It is obscured in the photograph.
Thanks. ;D
Marie
-
Hello Marie. Have just returned to Rootschat after moving to NZ.
The John Rit Dobson you refer to was my g-grandfather (see my post 10 Nov 10. While he and some of his brothers were born in Hosforth (IGI ref). Johnny boy has that pretty right. They were from Thornton and had returned there by 1822 at least as John was inducted into the army (51st Foot) then. He had sisters Mercy and Maria and I think some more brothers born in Thornton. A photo of a grave stone earlier in this thread appears to be Gilbert's (John's father) and 1841 Census shows him living there.
Great to hear from you. Thanks for replying. ;D
I have sent you a private message with more details.
Cheers,
Marie
-
On a roll. Better picture of first Dobson Gravestone and detail of Prospect Mill. All for tonight.
Jen
Hi Jen,
I am wondering if you are able to tell me the year of death for Gilbert Dobson, please? It is obscured in the photograph.
Thanks. ;D
Marie
Hello Marie
Sorry to take so long to reply to your post but I have been away from family history for a while - life taking over etc.
I am really sorry but I didn't transcribe the stone. The only information I have is what is in the photograph. I aim to go back to Thornton eventually and when I do I will go to the Bell Chapel and have another look.
Jen
-
Hello Marie (and Jen),
I visited Bell Chapel in April looking for Dobson ancestors. Whilst I have not been able to establish a connection between Gilbert and my Dobson ancestors (John Dobson of Keelham in the 1841 Census), I took a photo of his gravestone. The date of death appears as May 5th 1848 in the 72nd year of his Age.
-
Hi John
I've been reading your messages around the Dobsons from Thornton. I am also descended from them via John the tax collector then Benjamin.
I still live locally so if I can help you with anything e.g. photos please give me a shout.
Debbie
-
Hi Dave
I was out and about last weekend looking for gravestones of my Dobsons and came across Jonas's. It was in a church graveyard in Denholme. It mentions Sarah, Mary Ann and Daniel.
Not sure if you already have this info or not but I did take a photo though not sure how to post it on here.
Debbie
-
Hi Debbie, that is great. I have him down as buried 4 May 1882 at Denholme St Pauls. If you can give me the approximate position of the headstone I'll nip in there and have a look the next time I am passing.
If I have problems I might get back to you for a copy of your photo
Thanks
Dave
-
No problem at all Dave. The grave is at the front of the church on the right hand side as you're looking at the road - you won't miss it it's big.
Regards
Debbie
-
Hi John
I've been reading your messages around the Dobsons from Thornton. I am also descended from them via John the tax collector then Benjamin.
I still live locally so if I can help you with anything e.g. photos please give me a shout.
Debbie
Hi Debbie,
I am also a descendent of John - my gg grandfather was Edwin, Benjamin's youngest brother. Benjamin's son Luther was a witness at my great grandfather's (George Ellis Dobson) wedding.
-
Hi John
That's really nice to know. My g Grandfather was Walter, Luther's half brother. It's a small world isn't it.
Debbie
-
Debbie,
my cousin lives in Denholme and I have now got photos of the Jonas grave at St Pauls and of Ellis Dobson same graveyard. Thanks for your offer.
Does anyone know anything about the pit accident that killed Jonas (born 1819 died 4 May 1882) ?
Dave
-
Hello,
I found this message earlier on this thread.\
1871 Fawthrop Hotel at Town Bottom is on 'Main Street'
1881 Fawthrop Hotel at Town Bottom is on Market Street
Can I stop now please
Linda
My question is - where is Town Bottom, I had relatives there on the 1891 census. I have read most of this thread and found the Old Maps - but couldn't see Town Bottom. I could see other places I recognised.
Thank you for any help!
-
Hi Charlysue: Welcome to Rootschat.
I did a search for "Town Bottom" and Thornton and came up with 3,600 results. From those results, I eliminated Clayton (near Thornton); Temecula, California; Cape Town, South Africa; and the abbreviation "CO" for Colorado, because there apparently is a Thornton in Colorado. I was left with 43 results.
Only one of them mentioned Town Bottom, Thornton near Bradford. That was Your Archives, which is a website run by the U.K. National Archives. It lists street names for various registration districts in the U.K census. The link I'm posting here is for Bradford Registration District for the 1851 census. You will go to the page for streets beginning with the letter T.
Here's the link: http://www.rootschat.com/links/0nvf/
If you scroll down until you reach Town Bottom, Thornton, you'll have the census reference and the folio numbers in which Town Bottom is enumerated. The second column heading is labeled Nearby Street. For Town Bottom in Thornton that nearby street is Thornton. That may mean Thornton Road.
If you search the 1851 census for the reference and folios that Town Bottom appears on, you should get the names of other streets near to or intersecting with Town Bottom. That should give you a better idea of where it is (or was).
Or maybe Linda (Danuslave), who originally posted the information will see this and explain it better than I can.
Hope this helps.
John :o :o :o
-
hello Johnnyboy. Thank you for your reply. I have found the Bradford site and saw the entry for Town Bottom.
As yet I haven't tried your other suggestion about the reference and folio numbers, but will have a go.
Have got side tracked from this area of the family, as I have just received a letter from New Zealand and am adding details from what they have told me to another branch.
Thank you again