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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Staffordshire => England => Staffordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: joshii5 on Sunday 15 August 10 07:16 BST (UK)
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Hi, I would be grateful if anyone could tell me the birth parents of George Henry Moss (born 1890, Walsall, Staffordshire). I'm fairly certain they are a Henry Moss and his second wife 'Rachel' but the identity of this Rachel character has eluded me at every turn.
Henry (originally from Stonesfield, Oxfordshire) and Rachel, from what I had assumed from the 1911 census, were married in 1878 in Walsall and had the following children:
Sarah (1882)
Harriet (1884) my great great grandmother
Rachel (1887)
George (1890)
Jennie (1893)
However, further research has shown that a lot of lies have been told. The only marriage for a Henry Moss I can find in the Walsall area with a Rachel is in 1887, to a Rachel Burden. This would correlate with the birth entry of a Rachel Burden in Witney, Oxfordshire (not far from Stonesfield) in 1854. However Rachel Moss (on the 1881-1911) censuses, maintains she is born in 1850.
This leads me to believe that soon after Henry Moss's first wife Sarah died in 1873 (in Sheffield, where they were briefly living), he leaves his children with his mother-in-law Jane Davis in Walsall, heads back to his old homestead of Oxfordshire, meets local girl Rachel Burden and brings her up to Walsall, under the pretence that she is 23 and not 18. A well-maintained lie that lasted 30 years.
This could also be the reason why I can not find any birth indexes for any of the children until George (who was born after this marriage), and Jennie is also absent. If anyone can perhaps locate these with software more sophisticated than I possess (that gives you the mother's full name), and also confirm the Burden connection through George, then I'd be really grateful.
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By the way, someone kindly did the whole ahnentafel of the family one year ago (in case the above is confusing). They still drew a blank when it came to Rachel though.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=192709.0
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Hi
FreeBMD Birth Index
Sarah Ann BIRDEN - Sep Qtr 1881 Walsall
Harriet BIRDEN - Dec Qtr 1883 Walsall
Rachel BIRDEN - Sep Qtr 1886 Walsall
Cheers
AMBLY
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I'd also hazard a guess that Jennie was officially "Jane" with Jennie being her pet-name in the family
BIRTH Jane MOSS - Sep Qtr 1893 Walsall.
Have you found a death for wife1, Sarah?
A common reason for not marrying until after the births of a number of children, was that one of both of the party was not free to marry - ie: had a living spouse.
Cheers
AMBLY
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Rachel, on the Census 1881 to 1901 with Henry - is saying she is born Darlaston - I assume also says so on the 1911.
Her maiden name may not be BURDEN /BIRDEN. That may have been her legal name at the time she gave birth to the first 3 children and when she married Henry.
The 1887 marriage certificate may solve the mystery as well as naming a father.
Cheers
AMBLY
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I'd also hazard a guess that Jennie was officially "Jane" with Jennie being her pet-name in the family
BIRTH Jane MOSS - Sep Qtr 1893 Walsall.
Have you found a death for wife1, Sarah?
A common reason for not marrying until after the births of a number of children, was that one of both of the party was not free to marry - ie: had a living spouse.
Cheers
AMBLY
Wow, that's even more shocking than my previous theory. I suppose Rachel Burden from Witney is unrelated. I did manage to find a death record for wife1, Sarah Moss was registered dead in Sheffield in 1873.
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Also, on a more sombre note. Henry appears to be repeating some of the children names from his first marriage. 'Sarah' was born first of all (1859), and 'Jane' last (1871). Both of these children had not made it past infancy.
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Hi
You'd be surprised how common it was - for a couple to be together as man & wife, while one or the other or both, of them had a living legal spouse! Divorce just wan't an option for the ordinary folk if a marriage broke down, or if one party deserted the other etc - too expensive and legally dificult. So, very often they could marry only after the legal spouse died. Some didn't even wait - bigamy was also more common than you'd credit.
Did Henry not also repeat the name "George" for his children? Since he appears to have a son George born 1866 with wife Sarah, who is with he & Sarah in 1871, then with he & Rachel on the 1881. Then on 1891, he & Rachel have the child born 1890, George Henry?
After looking at all 'Rachel's born Walsall 1848 - 1851 and pairing them to Deaths, Census & marriages for "Rachel's born Darlaston - I'd say your Rachel was born as Rachel HITCH.
In BMD there are 3 Rachel HITCH born 1848 to 1851, registered in Walsall, 2 of them when looking at Census, definitely born in Darlaston:
1) In Jun Q 1848 - and chr 25 Feb 1849 Darlaston to parents Joseph & Ann. She is on Census with them, b Darlaston - in 1861 they are living in Willenhall (Wolverhapmton). Married John ASTON in Wolverhampton 1867 and is with him on 1871/1881 Census.
2) In Jun Q 1850, and died same Qtr , same year.
3) In Jun Q 1851 - chr 2 Jan 1853, St lawrence, Darlaston - parents John HITCH & Ann
See the Christenings here (Search Labs link)
http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html
Your Rachel's ages in Census:
1881 - 32
1891 - 40
1901 - 51
1911 - 61
I'd say Rachel was about to have a birthday at the time of each of those Census - as I believe her to be the Rachel HITCH born Jun Qtr 1851, chr 1853.
She & Henry have a boarder in house in 1881: John HITCH age 50, widower, Coal Miner
I think this is her father - and I think his age is mis-stated in that Census; he should be about 60.
I think he died in 1890, age 69 - probably in Darlaston; Registered Jun Qtr 1890 Walsall.
1851: Bell Street, Darlaston, Staffordshire
HO107 / Piece: 2022 / Folio: 243 / Page: 8
Head: John HITCH 30, Coal Miner, b Darlaston
Wife: Ann HITCH 35, b Darlaston
Dau: Mary HITCH 3, b Darlaston
1861: New Street, Darlaston, Staffordshire
RG9 / Piece: 2009 / Folio: 149 / Page: 23
Head: John HITCH 41, Coal Miner,
Wife: Anne HITCH 45,
Dau: Mary HITCH 14, Scholar,
Dau: Rachel HITCH 10, Scholar,
Son: James HITCH 4,
All Born Darlaston
1871: 21 Bull Street, Darlaston, Staffordshire
RG10 / Piece: 2955 / Folio: 106 / Page: 7
Head; Elizabeth BROTHERTON 50, wid, Green Grocer, b Burton, Staffs
Boarder: John HITCH 51, widr, Coal Miner, b Darlaston
Boarder: James HITCH 14, Coal Miner, b Darlaston
1881: 21 Bull Street , Darlaston, Staffordshire
RG11 / Piece: 2819 / Folio: 92 / Page: 32
Head: Henry MOSS 36, Puddler, b Oxford
Wife: Rachel MOSS 32, b Darlaston
Son: George MOSS 15, Pickler Iron Galvanising Works, b Wednesbury Staffs
Lodger: John HITCH 50, Wid, Coal Miner, b Wednesbury
Certificates would be needed to prove :
the 1887 marriage cert of Henry & Rachel - would hopefuilly show she was widow BURDEN, nee HITCH.
the 1890 death cert of John HITCH - would hopefully show he died at the same address Rachel & Henry lived at, and possibly the informant was also one of the two of them.
Cheers
AMBLY
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In 1871, Rachel HITCH daughter of John & (the late) Ann appears to be working as a Servant. Age is slightly out, but not wildly so - and often Servants ages were mis-stated by their 'employers'.
1871: The 'Leys', Darlaston
RG10 / Piece: 2955 / Folio: 27 / Page: 20
Servant: Rachael HITCH 19, unm, Servant Domestic, b Darlaston
In Household of William PRICE 52, Coal Miner b Salop & his wife & chd.
This doesn't look a 'well-off' household. The 'Ley's is address to a number of working class families.
So I wouldn't be surprised if it comes to be known she was related to the PRICE family.
I also think your Rachel nipped off - eloped maybe - to Moxley, Staffordshire in 1873 & married a young John BURDON - each telling a fib about their ages.
Search Labs:
1873, Rachel HITCH married John BURDEN in Moxley, Staffs on 15 Dec 1873
His age is given as 21, father named Jabez BURDEN
Her age is given as 20, father named as John HITCH
I believe this same John BURDEN was in fact about 18 or 19 at the time, was born in Warwickshire but was living in Darlaston in 1871.
1851: The Mines Houses - Foleshill, Warwickshire
HO107 / Piece: 2066 / Folio: 297 / Page: 39
Head: Charlotte BURDEN 62, wid, Weaver's Filler, b Coventry Warks
Son: James BURDEN 23, unm, Bricklayers Labourer, b Coventry Warks
Son: Thomas BURDEN 21, unm, Ribbon Weaver, b Coventry Warks
Visitor: Julia GILBERT 3, b Coventry Warks
and next door
Head: Jabez BURDEN 25, unm, Coal Higgler, b Coventry Warks
Housekeeper: Theresa DALTON 20, unm, b Foleshill
MARRIAGE: Jabez John Haines BURDEN and Theresa DALTON - Jun Qtr 1852 Foleshill
Married at St Pauls Foleshill on 4 April 1852 (Search Labs)
1861: Collycroft - Bedworth, Warwickshire
RG9 / Piece: 2199 / Folio: 39B / Page: 37
Head: Jabez BIRDEN 37, Coal Miner, b Coventry, Warks
Wife: Teresa BIRDEN 30, b Foleshill, Warks [nearly blind]
Son: William BIRDEN 8, b Foleshill
Son: John BIRDEN 5, b Bedworth
Dau: Teresa BIRDEN 2, b Bedworth
Dau: Charlotte BIRDEN 4 mths, b Bedworth
1871: Dale End - Darlaston, Wednesbury, Staffs
RG10 / Piece: 2955 / Folio: 83 / Page: 4
Head: Jabez BURDEN 47, Coal Miner, b Coventry, Warks
Wife: Theresa BURDEN 41, b Foldshill, Warks
Son: William BURDEN 18, unm, Coal Miner, b Foldshill, Warks
Son: John BURDEN 16, Coal Miner, b Bedworth, Warks
Dau: Charlotte BURDEN 11, b Bedworth, Warks
Son; Henry BURDEN 4, b Bedworth, Warks
Son: Thomas BURDEN 2, b Bedworth, Warks
DEATH: Jabez BIRDEN age 51, Jun Qtr 1876 Walsall
1881: 32 Blakemore Lane, Darlaston, Staffs
RG11 / Piece: 2817 / Folio: 100 / Page: 11
Head: Job CORNS 62, unm, b Darlaston
Boarder: Theresa BURDEN 48, wid, b Foleshill Warks
Boarder: Henry BURDEN 14, Labourer in Ironworks, b Foleshill Warks
Boarder: Thomas BURDEN 12, Scholar, b Foleshill Warks
This is harder to prove as correct - ie: that this is your Rachel marrying 1873. It's a shame there are no children with her & Henry who look like they could be hers by a first marriage!
But it looks like a strong liklihood. Can't find John BURDEN (sp var) on 1881 with a wife Rachel to fit that 1873 marriage?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Thanks! I really appreciate this, and it also brings up a host of other questions. There is no doubt in my mind that Rachel Hitch is my Rachel, as the locations are simply too close together to be a coincedence. She would have walked practically past Dale End (young John's house) when travelling to/from the Leys and New Street. Not to mention that their fathers, along with Rachel's employer, were all coal miners together. Shame there isn't really anything recognisable from the era on Google Streetview.
However, if the first three children are registered as Birden, then it makes you wonder who is named as the father? Was it the law at the time to name the man you were married to as the father? Would Henry Moss even have had a mention on the birth certificate?
Even more disconcerting is the fact that there is no death entry for John Burden. Does this mean that Rachel and Henry married bigamously, or could they have been granted a divorce? If so, is there a way I could find the decree nici which I assume would tell the whole story (I'm guessing it would be in the public domain by now)?
Another conundrum. Harriet Birden is listed in the census, from her parents’ marriage onward as Harriet Moss. When she started to have children herself, in particular my great grandmother Rachel in 1907 (out of wedlock), they also bore the name of Moss. When she married Henry Price in 1911, her maiden name was given as ‘Moss’, and the same maiden name is given for the children she started to have with Price in the years afterwards. I don’t understand how any of this can be, when her actual maiden name was Birden.
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Oops, pressed 'quote' instead of 'modify'!
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I am very new to geneology but am researching my great grandmother Rachel Moss. Born 1886 in Darlaston. Married Arthur H. Harrison. I know that she had a sister Jennie Moss who married an Adams and lived at 49 Cobden St. Darlaston. Beyond that her past has been one of those family things no one talked about, but what little was shared was that "hush hush there was no father listed on nannie's birth certificate". I think that her and Jenny may be your missing Rachel (1887) and Jennie (1893)? Need some help on where to go from here.
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I am very new to geneology but am researching my great grandmother Rachel Moss. Born 1886 in Darlaston. Married Arthur H. Harrison. I know that she had a sister Jennie Moss who married an Adams and lived at 49 Cobden St. Darlaston. Beyond that her past has been one of those family things no one talked about, but what little was shared was that "hush hush there was no father listed on nannie's birth certificate". I think that her and Jenny may be your missing Rachel (1887) and Jennie (1893)? Need some help on where to go from here.
Hello distant cousin. Have you seen the birth certificate in question? I don't really have the means, but from what I can surmise from the previous data is that this Rachel Moss (b.1886, and the sister to my dad's great-grandmother) would have been born as 'Rachel Birden'. Her mother (Rachel Burden - nee Hitch) was either married or widowed to John Burden/Burdon (I swear, there are no two same spellings of this name), but was by this point separated from him and was living with Henry Moss... who would be the biological father of Rachel, even if 'officially' the birth certificate had to show the husband as the father, or no father at all.
Rachel Snr. eventually married Henry in 1887. I ordered their marriage certificate and she is definitely shown as 'widowed'. I assume John Burdon must have died between 1886 -1887, either that or they committed bigamy.
Did you ever hear of a Harriet Moss, who was the elder sister to Rachel and Jane? She married Henry Price in 1911, and married again in 1921 to William Berry (hence her name of 'Nannie Berry'). However, before she married Henry she already had three children; one of which was my great-grandmother Rachel Moss (in 1907).
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I have now seen the birth certificate in question. My great - grandmother (Rachel, b 1886) was born Rachel Birden, to Rachel Birden 21 Bull St. Darlaston. No father listed. She also used the last name of Moss when married in 1910. I have asked and the sisters (my Grandmother and her sister) and they do not remember an aunt Harriet, in fact they remember that my great grandmother had 3 sisters -- Jenny (Jane), Sally (Sarah), and Maria??? and a brother George. Which all lines up except for Harriet/Maria. Did your Harriet have a middle name? I will ask Grams to see what she might remember -- she is now 96 so the memory is a bit fuzzy.
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For reference, I only have a family tree my paternal grandparents made many years ago. If I ever get back in touch with Gertrude (my grandmother) I'll see if I can find out more about Harriet.
Incidentally, the Moss sisters 'did' have another sister, through their dad's first marriage. Her name was Rebecca Moss and she was born in 1868. After her mother died she lived with the Mosses right up until at least the 1891 census.
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Actually, I have another question for you. It may seem odd but did that side of your family have anything to do with Portsmouth? This is apparently where Rachel (Harriet's daughter) spent a great deal of time - which makes me wonder if one or more members of the family were 'farmed out', for whatever reason.
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Grams does remember Harriet as "the sister that had 2 husbands". Re "farmed out" ---It is my understanding that Nanny (Rachel Moss b 1886) "went into service" at 11 or 12 years of age, perhaps for a minister, which would explain why she appears to be no longer living with the Moss family in Darlaston in the 1901 census. I will ask about Portsmouth.
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Spoke to my grandmother for the first time in ten years yesterday. I found out some extremely interesting information. My grandmother is the daughter of Rachel, Harriet's first child.
She remembers George Moss as being a wonderful man, bit of a rebel, he served in the army and decorated numerous times, but apparently 'could never keep hold of them'.
Harriet's first husband Henry was a prize-fighter and died of brain damage.
In 1929, one of Harriet's sisters and her husband, I forgot to ask which one, offered to take my baby grandmother with them to Sasketchewan, Canada, as she was born out of wedlock. They would have raised her on a farm rearing horses for the mounted police. For some reason this never happened. Could this have been your great grandmother perhaps?
This exemplifies the difficulty of life without birth control. Harriet (my great great grandmother) was still having children with her second husband right up until 1929 and my grandmother's birth, so their house at 1. Bissel Street was becoming immensely crowded.
The Portsmouth link is my great-grandmother Rachel fleeing the shame in early 30s and 'starting again' with her new husband and daughter, although the family returned to Harriet in Wolverhampton when the war broke out.
Hope this answers a lot of questions :)
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Do you know a George MOSS, born about 1793 (Butterton), who lived in Onecote and married Sarah (not sure of her maiden name)? I'm looking for Sarah's maiden name. She died before 1841 so the census records weren't too helpful in that regard.