RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: BlackpoolBell on Sunday 15 August 10 05:48 BST (UK)
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My great grandfather and his father were both William Mills. The youngest born 1848, I think in Manchester - was married and I found him in Manchester in the 1861 census with his wife and new born child. In the 1881 census he in not to be found but his wife Harriet was in a workhouse in Hull with a new child and then again in 1891 - this time with a new child in a Norfolk workhouse. On the birth certificate in 1891 he was identified as a liscenced hawker.
Can anyone help?
Judith
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I have found Harriet and her son Robert in 1881 and again with her son Reuben in 1891 (but where is Robert?)
In 1881 she says she is married but in 1891 she states widow.
Now Harriet is born Manchester 1848 so who is the William with new born son in 1861? If Harriet she would only be 15. Could you give us the piece/folio and page numbers for the 1861 census entry? Also which child's birth certificate was he down as a licensed hawker. Reuben was born 1888 Norwich and Robert 1881 Hull, was it his birth cert?
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robert died beore the age of 1, her previous child in the earlier census, I'm assuming also died
The licensed hawker came from the birth certificate of reuben
Do you have any clues?
Judith
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I think this could be your William at home with his Mum in 1881! I had the same situation in my family but much later, in 1911. And the husband also had himself down as single!
1881 RG11/3990/87/43
16 Dyers Lane Manchester
Ann Mills head 64 shopkeeper born Worsley
William son Single 33 warehouseman Manchester
James son Single 31 Blacksmith Manchester
John 10 grandson Manchester
James 8 grandson Manchester
So is James the son of William and Harriet?
Do you have William with his parents in 1851 and 1861. Is Ann his mother?
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1861 RG09/2942/64/41
16 Dyers lane Deansgate Manchester
Ann Miles 50 Widow Mangle keeper born Worsley
Thomas son 19 cottn spinner
William 14 errand boy
James 11 scholar
Robert 7 scholar
John 5
All children born Manchester.
It is Miles on the image.
1871 RG10/4039/15/24
16 Dyers Lane Deansgate Manchester
Ann Mills 54 Widow shop keeper
James son 21 Blacksmith
John 18 maker up
All born Manchester including Ann. Ann has lowered her age a little and John has gained 3 years.
+ 2 lodgers
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1851 HO107/2227/0/0
Back Lad Lane
William Miles 38 Fustian cutter
Ann 37 Fustian Cutter
William 4
James 1
+ 3 lodgers
All born Manchester
It occurred to me that you probably have these but now I know that William was his father, that their name was Miles in 1851 and 1861. Did they change it or did the enumerators mistake what they were told?
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There is a death of a William Mills in Manchester age 33 (William was 33 in the census) June 1/4 1881 vol 8d page 135.
This would also fit in with Harriet saying she was married in 1881 and a widow in the 1891 census.
Now I know that you have found a Harriet Mills with a Reuben, son age 3 in Norwich in 1888 that doesn't mean that William was still alive. My great grandmother had 4 children in the decade after her husband died and 3 of them were registered in his name!
Another scenario may be that this is not your Harriet. I have a recollection of seeing a Mills family with Reuben as one of their children so this may be a different Harriet.
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The trouble is there are hundreds of william mills. All I have is his marriage certificate and the birth certificates of their sons Robert and Reuben
In 1869 William was 21 and living in Back water street. He was a fustian cutter. that links to your previous post. What do you think?
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I'm struggling to find the census return you mention. I cant search by number on ancestry and the names arent coming up. Can you help
J
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Unfortunately the only way to find out if this is your William Mills death in 1881 is to buy the certificate and hope that the informant, address, occupation etc match with what you know.
I looked on Lancashire OPC and Manchester Burials but nothing there.
The GRO say this on their web site so it may be that the purchase of the cert is not necessary. However I haven't done this so don't know exactly how it works. A phone call perhaps?
"If you do not have the GRO index reference you may still apply online for any event which took place on or after 1st September 1837 to 6 months from the current date (for marriages this period is extended to 18 months). A 3 year search for the index reference will be carried out. You must supply the exact date of event if you have it. If you don't have the exact date enter 01/01/YEAR and we will search the specified year and one year either side."
Also don't forget that William and Harriet had sons John 1870/1 and James 1873/4 who are with their father and grandmother in 1881. and in 1871 John is with his parents.
Yes I do think that this family I found and posted the 1851/61/71/81 census records for are your William Mills family.
I am just not sure about Reuben being the son of William even though his birth cert says he is.
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I'm struggling to find the census return you mention. I cant search by number on ancestry and the names arent coming up. Can you help
J
Hi
to search by numbers on ancestry you need to be in the old search (which I always use)
Go to Home page. Click on search. On the page that comes up on the RH side under Add to Quick Links there are the words new search OR old search. If yours says old search click on it to take you to the old search site. Then in the right hand columns under Historical records you will find the UK census collection. Click on it. In the search box click on the drop down menu for the census year you want then move to the bottom of the box where there are places to put the piece, folio and page numbers for the census you want. It will bring up the complete list of people on that page, click on the name of the person you want and that family will show up.
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thanks again
i found them in 1841 census
very excited
it was a shame I had to go to work
would have quite happily searched all day
its addictive
Judith
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Also don't forget that William and Harriet had sons John 1870/1 and James 1873/4 who are with their father and grandmother in 1881. and in 1871 John is with his parents.
Yes I do think that this family I found and posted the 1851/61/71/81 census records for are your William Mills family.
I am just not sure about Reuben being the son of William even though his birth cert says he is.
Great, she ran off with the fair and left her husband at home!!!!!
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sorry about this but an you advise what numbers/letters to put in which boxes on ancestry search and is that in full ie the word vol
it keeps coming up unkown
ie
June 1/4 1881
vol 8d
page 135.
regards
Judith
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Hi Judith
I misunderstood you. I thought you were trying to find census records but the numbers you give are reference numbers for FreeBMD. Go to the site here http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
just enter the numbers in the boxes. When you are starting from scratch enter the name and a date range you think the event happened in. If it is a marriage you can enter the names of both the bride and groom, for births after 1911 you can enter the mother's maiden name.
For marriages it is sometimes best to enter one name only as sometimes they are not spelt exactly as we know them.
When ordering certificates from the GRO you must use the spelling as found on FreeBMD.
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sorry it was my fault, I was assuming it was the ancestry code
Will look at the free BMD, many thanks
Judith
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Just found this and it links in with my tree. Can you tell me where William is on the 1841 census as I can't find it. If you have the address I can FindMyPast it.
Have a fair amount of info on James and John if you want it.
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Hi
Just re reading and to let you know that Robert did not die. He was a witness at John Mills wedding - along with his wife Fanny. Robert and Fanny had a large family and can be found in the 81,91 and 1901 census. Fanny was born in 1858 ish in Shropshire.
Oops. This is Robert BROTHER of William and not SON of William. My mistake. Notice how often some families used the same Christian names over and over again.