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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Noandra on Friday 13 August 10 12:36 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find more about Albert Edward Loach, b 1876 in Birmingham, married to Jessie Eleanor/ Ellinor Smith b 10-10-1878 Wellington NZ. I think Albert's parents were Thomas Edward Loach married to Ellen, I would like to prove this, and is there any record of when Albert came to NZ and were there any other siblings. Can anyone help please.?
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Hi Noandra
Is this the fellow:
Father - Mr T E LOACH of Waimata? **
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/soldier/albert-edward-loach
Cheers
AMBLY
* edit: the database is regarding Albert Edward Loach on the ship Waiwere in 1900. NoK written as T E LOACH of Waimata - but I think think this should read "Waimate", which is in Canterbury. (Waimata is in the North Island Waikato area).
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Hi
Everything I'm seeing points to the following being the family of Thomas Edward LOACh (who married Jessie E SMITH):
http://www.ozlists.com/genies/defence/ww1/rollhono/l3.htm
Thomas Edward LOACH of Papanui Road, ChCh
That site also losts: Geo. Wallace LOACH reported missing, believed KIA in 1915 - NoK was wife Mrs Emily LOACH of 203 Papanui Road ChCh. George is on the IGI (Submitted) as being born 1889 NSW Australia to Thomas Edward LOACH & Emily Sprigg Jones.
His WW1 death record states:
Son of Thomas E. and Emily Loach, of 53, Rose Warne St., Spreydon, Christchurch
MARRIAGE: Thomas Edward LOACH & Emily Sprigg JONES - married Dec Qtr 1881, Holborn, London/Middlesex
The marriage record states Thomas was 25, Bachelor, Tin plate worker, son of John LOACH, button maker. Emily was a 19 yr old spinster, dau of : John Jones, deceased.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/09g4/
Notice of A.E being wounded May 1915 - father stated as Thomas Edward LOACH.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/09g3/
Regarding the death of George in Sep 1915. Refers to him as the 2nd son of T.E. Loachof Papanui Road and brother of Lt. Co. A.E. Loach.
NZ BMD shows Thomas Edward LOACH death 1926 age 71 - so born abt 1855.
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Home/
NSW BDM shows 2 other sons born in Australia (siblings of A E)
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/searchHistoricalRecords.htm
Percy E in 1891 and Horace E in 1893 - registered Marickville (as was George Edward)
http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/
Horace Edward LOACH has entries in Archway NZ - he also appears to have served WW1.
But I think, he's not the same Thomas as shown in this 1881 Census - as that family are still in the UK in 1901.
CENSUS 1881: 59 Imkerman St, Wolverhampton, Staffordshire
RG11 / Piece: 2802 / Folio: 110 / Page: 10
Head: William HOWL 63, Fitter/ Engine, b Wolverhampton
Wife: Ann HOWL 61, b Willenhall, Staffs
Dau: Elizabeth HOWL 24 unm, no occuparion, b Pelsall, Staffs
Visitor: Thomas LOACH 27, married, Moulder/Iron, b Wolverhampton
Visitor: Ellen LOACH 26, married, b Goscot, Staffs
Visitor; Albert LOACH 3, b Wolverhamton
Cheers
AMBLY
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There are 2 entries for Albert Edaward on the Auckland Cenotaph website
the first is the Boer War
http://muse.aucklandmuseum.com/databases/Cenotaph/RecordDetail.aspx?OriginalID=127537&Ordinal=2&c_surname_search=loach
the second WW1
http://muse.aucklandmuseum.com/databases/Cenotaph/RecordDetail.aspx?OriginalID=48516&Ordinal=1&c_surname_search=loach
Cheers Janette
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Marriage
1901 Jessie Elinor Smith to Albert Edward Loach
Children for Jessie and Albert
1902 Albert Cyril Loach to Jessie Ellinor and Albert Edward
1903 Alfred Edward Loach to Jessie Eleanorand Albert Edward
1905 Jessie Catherine Loach to Jessie Elinor and Albert Edward
1907 Ellis Clifford Loach toJessie Ellinorand Albert Edward
1909 Agnes Elinor Loach Jessie to Elinor and Albert Edward
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Search/Search.aspx?Path=%2FqueryEntry.m%3Ftype%3Dbirths
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There is a T E Loach and child on a ship ? Hamoto from Sydney to Wellington 29th Aug. 1891
the transcription says F E Loach but it appears to be a transcription error,the original manifest can be seen here
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#searchType=close&collection=fs%3A1609792&surname=loach&p=recordResults
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Thank you so much for all your help.
This is the family I am tracing -
Marriage
1901 Jessie Elinor Smith to Albert Edward Loach
Children for Jessie and Albert
1902 Albert Cyril Loach to Jessie Ellinor and Albert Edward
1903 Alfred Edward Loach to Jessie Eleanorand Albert Edward
1905 Jessie Catherine Loach to Jessie Elinor and Albert Edward
1907 Ellis Clifford Loach toJessie Ellinorand Albert Edward
1909 Agnes Elinor Loach Jessie to Elinor and Albert Edward
plus
Phyllis Gwendoline 1910 and Marjoarie 1912
Albert Cyril Loach m Violet Ellen Brassington & their son Corwyn Maxwell Loach is a direct relative.
I think the A E Loach who served in the Boer War service # 389 could be the correct person.
Where is "Waimate" is that close to Christchurch?
"T E Loach and child on a ship ? Hamoto from Sydney to Wellington 29th Aug. 1891" that seems make him Albert Edward's father.
Ambly I am not sure if this is the same Thomas Edward which I am looking for -
MARRIAGE: Thomas Edward LOACH & Emily Sprigg JONES - married Dec Qtr 1881, Holborn, London/Middlesex
The marriage record states Thomas was 25, Bachelor, Tin plate worker, son of John LOACH, button maker. Emily was a 19 yr old spinster, dau of : John Jones, deceased.
but this certainly looks like it could be him -
But I think, he's not the same Thomas as shown in this 1881 Census - as that family are still in the UK in 1901.
CENSUS 1881: 59 Imkerman St, Wolverhampton, Staffordshire
RG11 / Piece: 2802 / Folio: 110 / Page: 10
Head: William HOWL 63, Fitter/ Engine, b Wolverhampton
Wife: Ann HOWL 61, b Willenhall, Staffs
Dau: Elizabeth HOWL 24 unm, no occuparion, b Pelsall, Staffs
Visitor: Thomas LOACH 27, married, Moulder/Iron, b Wolverhampton
Visitor: Ellen LOACH 26, married, b Goscot, Staffs
Visitor; Albert LOACH 3, b Wolverhamton
I wonder if we can find more on Thomas's parents or Ellen's maiden name.
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On the CWGC website it lists George Wallace Loach's parents as Thomas E. and Emily Loach, of 53, Rose Warne St., Spreydon, Christchurch.
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=680124
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oops - posted in error ... deleted :D
Edit:
FREE BMD UK
Marriages - Dec - 1876
LOACH - Thomas
HOWL - Ellen
Reg'd. Wolverhampton
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Hi Noandra ;D
is this your AE LOACH (photo)?
http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-WH1-Cant-t1-body-d6.html#WH1-Cant-fig-WH1-CantP012a
I would also suggest he is the same AE who served in the Boer War.
If your AE LOACH was the same Lt Col A E LOACH of the Canterbury Regiment in NZ, then he was brother of the aforementioned George, both sons of Thomas Edward LOACH and Emily Sprigg(s) JONES. Thomas & Emily were married in London & in Australia by 1891 at least, having children. Per Australian newspapers, he was Bankrupted in 1893 and moved to NZ - where they are linked to Geraldine, Waimate and Christchurch.
PAPERS PAST
In 1898 TE 'late of Geraldine' was commencing business in the Waimate area, as a tin & brass worker - described as having had 25 years experience at Hiome & in the Colonies.
In 1895, TE was in Geraldine and the inventor of a "Success Bucket".
In 1899, an A LOACH escaped a fire in Geraldine (this may be Albert)
NLA - Australian Newspapers
Horace LOACH married in Marickville NSW in 1914, father described as youngest son of Mr & Mrs T E LOACH of ChCh
I also found this:
SEARCH LABS
http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start
Thomas Edward LOACH
Born 6 Mar 1855
Chr 14 Apr 1873, St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire
Parents: John LOACH & Mary Ellen
As I mentioned before, Thomas LOACH whose wife was Ellen (HOWL as found by Lucy) are still in the UK in 1891 and 1901 ( thought their son Albert is not on the 1901 with them).
Your A.E. where does the information that he was born in Birmingham to Thomas LOACH and Ellen, come from?
What information is on his marriage and death records in NZ?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Thanks, that definately looks like George could be brother of Albert. I have found census records for 1881 - Thomas, Ellen, and Albert
1891 Thomas Ellen Albert Annie and Nellie
1901 Thomas Ellen Annie and Nellie.
There is a T E Loach and child on a ship ? Hamoto from Sydney to Wellington 29th Aug. 1891
If the ship details are correct - it is not the same family - as Thomas was still in UK in 1901 and there is no George. ???
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The Military records for Trooper A.E. Loach show his father as Thomas Edward. I think we have two A.E. Loach's from Christchurch one a trooper and the other a Lt Col. I quess the question is which is the one I am looking for ???
There is a tree with info on ancestry but I don't know how correct it is.
NZ BDM records provided a lot of the information I have.
I am not sure where Thomas Edward was born, still looking.???
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Hi Noandra
I think there was just the one chap.
The best way to prove it would be documentation from Marriage or Death record of AE, the one who married Jessie.
Everything in that document you've posted up also points to Lt Col A E LOACH, son of T E LOACH Tinsmith & Plumber of Waimate and of Papanui Road, ChCh, earlier of geraldine, previously of NSW Australia.
From numerous snippets in papers Past - It seems quite clear, AE was first in South Africa as a Private/Trooper - returned to NZ in February 1901, married Jessie the same year, later served in WW1 where he was a Major then rose to Rank of Lt Col (which he attained after his predecessor was KIA).
http://shrinkalink.com/36351
"Mr T E Loach, of Papanui road Christchurch has been officially advised tliat his jtecond son, Private Geo. Wallace Loach of the Wellington Battalion, has reported missing from August 8th. And is now 'believed to have been Killed. This is the first intimation that Private Loach's parents have received of his having been reported ac missing. Private Loach is 27 years old and is the youmger brother of Lieut. Colonel A. E Loach, of the Canterbury Battalion. For some years past he had been engaged with his younger brother m a plumbing business irt Hastings. "
And in turn again, George's parents are showing to be Thomas Edward & Emily.
Emily Spriggs LOACH is buried in Hastings. The family obviously made the move to the North Island (perhaps to be near their son?)
View the Headstone here - Thomas Edward is buried with her.
http://www.hdc.govt.nz/cem/cemetery_home.html
Cheers
AMBLY
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I can't find Emily's death registration on NZ BMD - but the headstone says she died 1928 and I think at age 65.
This puts her born about 1863.
This is in keeping with the age of the bride Emily Spriggs JONES (19) who married Thomas Edward LOACH in Dec 1881 in London:
MARRIAGE: St Marks, Middleton Square, parish of Clerkenwell, Middlesex
25 Dec 1881 after Banns
Groom: Thomas Edward LOACH 25, Bachelor, Tin Plate Worker, of 35 North ----?ton Street, (Compton?); father John LOACH, button maker
Bride: Emily Spriggs JONES 19, Spinster, of 198 S. John Street; father: John JONES (deceased)
Witness': George MASON and Sarah MARSHALL (her Mark)
Do you know what date was the document for AE, where he was stated as age 23 years & 4 months?
Questions I see now are:
Was AE the illigitimate child of Emily? Or of Thomas?
Was he really born ca 1876 or did he up his age to join up for the armed services?
Can Thomas and Emily each be found in the 1881 Census in England?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Cant find TE on the 1881 yet - but this looks like his large family in 1871 & 1881 (he's with them in 1871). He had a brother named Albert Edward too, by the looks:
1871: 45 Wharf Street, Birmingham St Thomas, Warwickshire
RG10 / Piece: 3102 / Folio: 79 / Page: 28
Head : John LOACH 40, Button Maker, b Bilston Staffs
Wife: Mary A LOACH 33, Green Grocer, b Birmingham, Warks
Son: Thomas LOACH 16, Iron Plate Worker, b Birmingham, Warks
Son: George LOACH 14, Caster, b Birmingham, Warks
Son: John LOACH 9, Scholar, b Birmingham, Warks
Son: Albert Ed'd LOACH 7, Scholar, b Birmingham, Warks
Dau: Minnie LOACH 6, Scholar, b Birmingham, Warks
Son: Walter LOACH 4, b Birmingham, Warks
Dau: Caroline LOACH 3, b Birmingham, Warks
Dau: Martha LOACH 3mths, b Birmingham, Warks
1881: 3 Back Street, St John's Place, Birmingham St Thomas, Warwickshire
RG11 / Piece: 2969 / Folio: 53 / Page: 43
Head: John LOACH 50, ----? Bone Sawyer, b Bankers Hill, Staffs (occ looks like Gory Bone Sawyer LOL, not sure of first word)
Wife: Mary A LOACH 42, Laundress, b Northfield, Warks
Son: John LOACH 19, unm, Iron Moulder
Son: Albert LOACH 17, unm, Brass Carter
Dau: Minnie LOACH 16, unm, Warehouse Girl
Son: Walter LOACH 14, Iron Nut Cracker
Dau: Caroline LOACH, 13, Scholar
Dau: Martha LOACH 10, Scholar,
Dau: Mary A LOACH 7, Scholar
Dau: Rosina LOACH 5, Scholar,
Mother-In-Law: Martha YOUNG 65, wid, Annuitant, b Souithfield, Worcestershire
Brother-in-Law: Charles YOUNG 38, unm, Groome Unemployed, b Birmingham, Warks
(ALL the LOACH children b Birmingham)
Edit: Add:
Occupation in 1881 - I think is Ivory Bone Sawyer
Tree on Acestry - lots of info, seems well done!
Says John LOACH was first married to an Ellen ELLIS with whom he had 4 children, incl Thomas. John married Mary Ann YOUNG in 1860.
Cheers
AMBLY
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Thanks for all your help, I am still trying to get my head around it all.
Question -
If A.E. Loach the Trooper and Lt Col Loach are one and the same, why was Trooper A.E. Loach discharged with a bad back/medical condition and then able to fight in WWII.
Your comment on Ancestry could be right as one of the children of Albert Edward & Jessie was named Ellis Clifford, this could tie in.
Tree on Acestry - lots of info, seems well done!
Says John LOACH was first married to an Ellen ELLIS with whom he had 4 children, incl Thomas. John married Mary Ann YOUNG in 186
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Question -
If A.E. Loach the Trooper and Lt Col Loach are one and the same, why was Trooper A.E. Loach discharged with a bad back/medical condition and then able to fight in WWII.
The WWII "A.E. LOACH" would appear to be "Alfred Edward LOACH" (b. 1903 - s/o Albert Edward LOACH. )
Archives New Zealand (Christchurch) hold a file which confirms Alfred Edward was a former serviceperson.
Former Servicemen's Rehabilitation Files
LOACH - Alfred Edward - 1945
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/
~ Lu
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Yes, you are right, I got it wrong on the record there are two Albert Edward LOACH'S - or one - who served in the WWI - (I put WWII, sorry). I cannot sort out if they are one and the same person.
The WWII "A.E. LOACH" would appear to be "Alfred Edward LOACH" (b. 1903 - s/o Albert Edward LOACH. )
Archives New Zealand (Christchurch) hold a file which confirms Alfred Edward was a former serviceperson.
Former Servicemen's Rehabilitation Files
LOACH - Alfred Edward - 1945
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Yes, you are right, I got it wrong on the record there are two Albert Edward LOACH'S - or one - who served in the WWI - (I put WWII, sorry). I cannot sort out if they are one and the same person.
Mmm ... I think you should be guided by all the wonderful information provided in this thread, by AMBLY. :)
~ Lu
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I want to really thank you all for all your searching, you have been great. After going through everything I agree that Thomas married Emily Spriggs and was born in Birmingham, Warwickshire that seems proven in many ways. I now have found lots more Loache's from Birmingham to try to fit into the picture.
A special thank you to 'AMBLY' you really have gone out of you way to help me.
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. Question -
If A.E. Loach the Trooper and Lt Col Loach are one and the same, why was Trooper A.E. Loach discharged with a bad back/medical condition and then able to fight in WWII.
I would imagine Lt Col would be a far less physical job than trooper,which would enable him to serve in WW1
his file is interesting as in parts it refers to hip disease and then a back problem,there is also a letter from him saying he needs to be back in NZ before the 27th Dec 1900
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Hi Noandra
You're welcome - has been very interesting one to follow. Thanks Lucy for the kind comment ;D
I wonder where on earth TE & Emily each were in 1881 - they married in the December that year. I've searched high & low to no avail.
I also can't get a handle on Emily in any Census pre 1881. If AE was born abt 1876 he should be there somewhere too, but no joy. If he was really born abt 1876 it makes Emily very young when she had him, if indeed she was his mother. Perhaps TE & Emily were living together in 1881 but not yet married (maybe due to her age) and perhaps they dodged the Census man! It may be that NZ death records will help......
If you can find out the name of the funeral director who handled Emily's funeral (from a Newspaper notice perhaps) or from the Sexton's book at the Cemetery - then a call to the Funeral Director (if they are still in business, and most of them are) to ask what information they hold for her, may prove helpful. They often have a record of the names of the deceaseds parents, children etc - and it's free. I've done this many times in NZ, and have never been turned down.
You could do the same for your Albert Edward too, as that may help cement for you that he was indeed the one Trooper and the Lt Col. and was the son of TE and Emily, brother of George, Horace etc. It may also indicate if he really was born abt 1876 or if he was fibbing when he joined up for the South African wars. Perhaps investing in the 1876 Birth Certificate for Albert Edward LOACH in Birmingham may be a good thing too - on the off chance Emily wasn't his mother, but rather the product of a prior marriage of Thomas (even though he is stated as a bachelor on his 1881 marriage to Emily.
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi Noandra,
You could put a new request on the the board asking if someone could go to Wellington Archives and ask for the WW1 file of Albert Edward be digitised,you will then be able to access it online like his Boer War file
title years
LOACH, Albert Edward - WW1 6/1172 - Army 1914 - 1918
agency series accession box / item sep record no. part alternative no.
AABK 18805 W5544 24 / 0068838
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Good news - with Riley's wonderful help, both WWI records of Albert Edward Loach are now available and they are one and the same person.
The record for Lt Col Loach shows his marriage to Jessie Eleanor Smith at Christchurch on 18-9-1901 and 6 children are listed, which match what I have.
I have sent an email to the Sexton at Hastings cemetery to try to find out more.
Beg, has been kind enough to sent through several death notices which all tie in, the funal directors did not keep records that far back.
The census records which I have received prove Thomas as Albert's father and John as grandfather. I wonder if there is any means of going back further on John & Mary Ann ?
I still need to sort out Thomas and Emily - why was Albert born 4 years before they were married and where was Emily born?
Still more question.
But lots of thanks for everyone's assistance. :)
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Not sure if this is too late but I have the answer to your mystery. Col Albert Loach was my great grand father. His father, Thomas Edward Loach, was married in 1874 in Manchester, to Catherine Swasbrook and their son Albert Edward was born in 1876.
Catherine died (year unknown) and in 1881 Thomas remarried - to Emily Spriggs Jones in London. They had three other sons George, Horace and Percy and the family emigrated to Australia about 1891 and then to New Zealand about 1894.
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Thank you for this information it corrects some dates which I had wrong. Albert Cyril Loach who married Violet Ellen Brassington are my sister-in-laws relatives. If you want any more information please PM me with your email address and we maybe able to exchange more details.
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This may be a bit late... But did anyone manage to gain AE Loach's Boer War Records. I am a descendent of his and curious.
Thanks.
N. notabilis.
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Hi n.notabilis, and welcome to RootsChat. :)
The link to his Army personnel file can be found here.
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=20524589&digital=yes
Click on each image in turn to view them.
If you have any problems reply to this topic and I'll lend you a hand.
Happy hunting,
Spades
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Thanks for that.
N. notabilis.