RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Nottinghamshire => Topic started by: matt8 on Wednesday 11 August 10 21:40 BST (UK)
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My great-grandfather worked on the railway at Burton Joyce.
(1865-1905). Is that on the midland railway line?
Also has anyone any experience of finding railway staff records
at the national archives? Are they available and what info might
they contain?
Thank you,
Matt
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Hi Matt, yes it is on the Midland line. Do you have your grandfather on the census, as it will most likely give the job he was doing. This information will make it easier tracing records.
Skewy.
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Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.
Regards,
matt
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Hi Matt, not sure if you have seen the Midland Railway Records site? if it can't help, it may give some good pointers.
http://www.midlandrailwaystudycentre.org.uk/family.htm
Skewy.
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LMS records are at Kew, some earlier Midland railway staff records amongst them. Well worth a look.Having justg looked at the Midland Railway site, though it seems excellent, any records for Burton Joyce will be at Kew. However, establish your relative's occupation, if he was on the footplate it is quite feasible he lived at Burton Joyce and worked from a depot in the Nottingham area. The site seems to have these records. Good luck.
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Thanks to you both for the excellent advice.
I think I will try to get the records from the National Archives and post back on my experiences.
Regards,
Matt
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Hi Matt, out of interest, do you know his "position" in the railway at Burton Joyce?
I would guess not an engine man as to far from the nearest shed.
Skewy
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Hi Skewy,
From baptism records of his children he is at various times: Gatekeeper, Railway labourer, Platelayer, Ganger. His main occupation seems to have been a platelayer.
Regards,
Matt
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When you turn up the census record I think you will find that he was living in a crossing keeper's cottage, at some level crossing most likely out in the wilds. It was by no means unusual for all the adults in a family to be employed on the railway. It usually went like this; Dad would be a lengthman,or ganger, promoted from platelayer, who was responsible for ensuring his designated length of track was in a safe state, generally around 10 route miles, which he had to walk every day, fix any minor problems, ensure any more dangerous problems were signposted, and reported for attention. Mum would be the crossing keeper, opening the gates for road traffic as required. They would usually have a small holding attached to the cottage, which was tied to the job. Problems would occur when both adults had to retire, then the family was looking for accomodation. These crossings were of more importance than farm crossings where the farmer himself was responsible for opening and closing the gates to service land on both sides of the track, such crossings were usually private for the farm's use only. I don't know how many of these remain in service, but I paid out wages to crossing keepers in these circumstances as late as 1985.
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You are spot on. The census shows that he is living at the Railway Gate House in Bulcote.
Thanks for the very interesting information.
Matt
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Hi Matt, this site has a picture of the crossing at Bulcote. Just enter Bulcote Village and the crossing pictures are on the second set of photos.
http://www.picturethepast.org.uk/
One picture shows a ground frame, so it looks like there was a sidings at Bulcote, thus adding to the crossing Keepers job.
Skewy.
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Fantastic! Spent an enjoyable time searching through the photos. Its great to have a photo of where your ancestors lived.
The school photos, football and cricket teams of Burton Joyce are also very interesting - there must be some relatives in there somewhere. I will ask my mum if she recognises anyone!
Thanks again,
Matt
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Out of interest Matt, can you confirm that Mum or another family member was the crossing keeper? Unusual if not.
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The only definite time I have him at The Bulcote Gatehouse is 1891, because the enumerator has written it at the side. His wife is there but no occupation listed for her. Both father and a son are listed as platelayers. It is the last house in the hamlet.
In the 1871,1891,1901 censuses he is living at Bulcote, but the enumerator has not listed the properties, only in one he is in Principle street. But he is not in the last house in the village in any of theses censuses. There is at most one other railway family living in Bulcote at these times.
So I am wondering how long he lived in the Gatehouse. Noone appears to be listed as gatekeeper but he is listed as a Platelayer and there is always someone else in the family who could be opening the gates.
The parish registers at Burton Joyce have the baptisms of his children,
in 1860,1862: residence=Bulcote, occupation of father=gatekeeper,
although strangely he is listed as living in Burton Joyce in the 1861 census.
In 1864:residence=Bulcote, occupationof father=platelayer. his first wife dies in 1865. He remarries and then
1866: residence=Bulcote, occupation of father=gatekeeper
After that the baptisms all show him living in Bulcote as platelayer/Ganger/Railway labourer.
It would be interesting to know how long the family lived in the Bulcote Gatehouse.
Matt
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I know you said he was on the railway 1865-1905, but have you found the family in the 1911 census? Where were they? Someone at Burton Joyce must have opened the gates, unless upgrading of the line resulted in a singal box being built at Burton Joyce, in which case control of the gates would pass to the signalman, and if the box was continually staffed then no crossing keeper would be needed.
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Checked the 1911 census. James Shelton is living with his son in Mansfield and is retired. At Bulcote there is a new person listed as gate man. I found another of James' sons Jarvis Shelton living at Burton Joyce at the Gatehouse there. His daughter was born in Bulcote in1907. So looks like the family were at the Bulcote Gatehouse until at least 1907.
From all the evidence its looks like James Shelton and family were living at the Bulcote Gatehouse for about 45 -50 years. Perhaps from when it was first built.
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It was by no means unusual for all the adults in a family to be employed on the railway. It usually went like this; Dad would be a lengthman,or ganger, promoted from platelayer, who was responsible for ensuring his designated length of track was in a safe state, generally around 10 route miles, which he had to walk every day, fix any minor problems, ensure any more dangerous problems were signposted, and reported for attention. Mum would be the crossing keeper, opening the gates for road traffic as required. They would usually have a small holding attached to the cottage, which was tied to the job.
My Grandfather was invallided out of the railway works in Darlington and was then posted as a crossing keeper to Piercebridge, as you say with a tied house.
So there may be other reasons he was in the gate house
Rog
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That was often the case; however a crossing keeper had safety responsibilities, and even if invalided out of another position after in jury or sickness had to at a minimum have 1) Normal colour vision, and 2) Be sufficiently physically active to work the gates without assistance, which would normally rule out amputations and strokes etc. A rural crossing keeper post would well suit someone who had been invalided out of a position where he was exposed to a large amount of dust in the atmosphere etc.One thing with the railway a person invalided out of a post usually did not suffer financially, they retained their rate of pay less a deduction of 10/- (50p) per week. I have known people transferred out of a footplate post through defective eyesight, to be accomodated in a job where through overtime earnings they were considerably better off financially then they had been.
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What was Jarvis' occupation? Very surprised if not railway, probably ganger, lengthman, platelayer etc.
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He was a platelayer in the 1911 census.
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QED That's how he retained the tenancy!
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Hello Matt
I've just seen one of your recent postings with which I have a couple of connections.
My 2nd G. Grandmother is identified as the crossing keeper at Burton Joyce in both the 1861 & 1871 Census records. Her maiden name was Hannah Severn and she married William Gumbley in 1848. He was recorded as a railway labourer.
The second possible connection is Ellen Shelton from Stoke Bardolph who married my G.G.Uncle Henry Cordon in 1862. I believe Ellen was the daughter of John and Catherine.