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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northumberland => England => Northumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: DaveM888 on Wednesday 11 August 10 15:47 BST (UK)
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Does anyone know where I can get Hartburn parish transcripts for pre 1800, I have managed to get a lot out of the Durham Transcripts but they start 1777. IGI has identified some earlier(1720-1740) potters in hartburn but I cannot link them to those I have found afterwards. I have a George Potter I know was born in Hartburn circa 1766, he married an Elleanor WHinham in 1785 in Hartburn
Dave
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According to genuki there are transcripts at Newcastle Library and, of course, the microfilms of the original parish records are at Woodhorn archives (they start in 1672). Genuki also says that IGI cover the whole period you are looking at.
http://www.genuki.bpears.org.uk/NBL/Hartburn/ChurchRecords.html
If you are still stuck in a few days pm me as I am usually at Woodhorn on Wednesdays and can have a quick look for you.
Christine
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I have so much information but cannot connect the dots because of missing events, hope you can understand the following:
Hartburn events for Potter
Marriage
Edward Potter and Thomasin Browel 25/5/1749
John Potter and Mary Thompson 4/11/1756 (Given dates what is likelihood John and Edward are brothers)
Samuel Potter and Mary Hedley 17/4/1771 (Who is Samuel's father? possibly John or Edward)
Elizabeth Potter and John Rochester 31/5/1774 (Who is Elizabeth's father?possibly John or Edward)
George Potter and Eleanor Whinham 30/01/1785 who is George's father? possibly John or Edward)
Births
Ann Potter daughter of Edward and Thomasin 2/7/1751
Thomas Potter son of Edward and Thomasin 22/1/1754
Thomas Potter son of John and Mary 1/9/1757
Thomas Potter son of John and Mary 11/9/1757
Robert Potter son of Mathew and Mary Hedley 5/3/1769 (What is the likelihood that Mathew is Samuel? see marriages)
Thomas Potter son of Mathew and Mary Mackey 23/7/1776 (cannot find marriage and who is Mathews father?)
Joseph Potter son of George and Eleanor 2/4/1786
Mary daughter of George and Eleanor 28/3/1790
Additional questions
Robert was son of Mathew Potter and Mary Hedley, Thomas was son of Mathew Potter and Mary Mackey, did Mathew marry twice and we have no marriage but we do have a marriage for a Samuel Potter and Mary Hedley? Whether Mathew and/or Samuel, who was their father, probably Edward.
George Potter is the key to the family line and therefore would really love to know who was his father. It is odd that there are marriages for John and Edward but few births to follow, certainly nothing for George, Elizabeth or Samuel and/or Mathew
Many Thanks....Dave
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The baptism of Robert, bapt 5 Mar 1769 says illeg. son of Mary Hedley, singlewoman and Matthew Potter a single man both of Longwitton.
Janis
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There are only two Samuel Potters I can find in Northumberland at the time One was born 1755 in Mitford, the other 1746 in Long Framlington, the latter being the more likely noting his father was called Mathew. So probably no link to the other Hartburn Potters.
Although that said Mitford is nearer to Hartburn and Long Witton. So perhaps a young Samuel although baptised in 1755 could be a little older would be 14-15 in 1769 could have been the father and that is why they were not married until later and for whatever reason a Mathew Potter stood in as father at the baptism. The Mitford Samuel's father was a John
Dave
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Hi Dave,
I had a ‘wander’ around Hartburn parish records today - said hello to a few of my ancestors in passing! There’s not much to add to what you already know but here goes.
Firstly I couldn’t find a baptism for George Potter anywhere between 1760 and 1770. Do you have anything specific which leads you to this date and place?
I checked out the baptisms you listed above. Edward and Thomasin, John and Mary were all living in Longwitton when their children were baptised. Hartburn is a wide-ranging parish which takes in many villages and, fortunately for us, the baptism records give the village which does help to sort things out.
Of the two dates you have for Thomas son of John and Mary the second one is correct (11/9/1757)
Robert Potter, as Janis says, was illegitimate but so was Thomas which explains why you couldn’t find a marriage for Matthew and Mary Mackey. The record reads ‘Illegitimate son of Matthew Potter and Mary Mackey of South Witton’
George and Eleanor were living in Hartburn itself when Joseph was baptised and their abode is given as Grainge on Mary’s baptism record.
Not much yet but it all adds to the picture.
Christine
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According to the baptism of twins to George and Eleanor in Felton in 1799, George is a native of Snitter, Rothbury Parish.
I know that Eleanor was baptised in 1763 at Edlingham, so George would be a similar age or possibly older. There is a baptism of George son of Thomas Potter of Snitter, in Rothbury on 14 June 1754.
My interest lies with Hounam/Whinham.
Hope that helps you.
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Three cheers for the Bishop of Durham (Shute Barrington that is) and his insistance on including genealogical detail in the baptism records!
Welcome to rootschat, Janwhin :D
Christine
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Thanks for the welcome! It's just a shame that the methodology wasn't adopted from 1813. I always enjoy tracking register entries in the "golden period".
Janet
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Wow, that is great, Thank you both very very much. It is interesting in that they marry and start a family in Hartburn but then return to Edlingham parish
That now triggers a few new questions and one old.
George and Eleanor were in Hartburn until at least 1790 for which I have traced Births of Joseph bap 2/4/1786 and Mary Bap 28/3/1790 then they show up in Edlingham parish with a son Richard bap 28 Mar 1802 abode N. Bewick and then Alice Bap 19 Feb 1804 abode N.Bewick. Unfortunately the key to my ancestral line is a son Thomas whose baptism I cannot trace. Thomas surfaces in Edlingham parish when married to Alice Moffat in 7/5/1817 I know he is brother of Alice Potter as after his death in 1831 aged 44 his children live with Aunt Alice Potter (unmarried with a daughter Eleanor(his wife Alice Potter nee Moffat dies in 1824. So the question is why is his baptism missing in Hartburn circa 1787.
Second question who are the twins born in 1799?
I wasn't able to trace an Eleanor Whinham on IGI, I looked at the general spread of the Whinham family but could not glean any clues?
Again Many Thanks
Dave
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You didn't mention Thomas b c 1787 Hartburn in your reply #2 so I didn't look for him ;)
How do you know he's missing? There is a section from early 1788 to 1792 missing from the online BTs so could he be there?
Janet says Eleanor was baptised Edlingham 1863 but alas that's another year missing from the BTs. Do you have an exact date for that, Janet?
Christine
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Now you are going to have to suffer an explanation about Whinhams in Northumberland!
The name started as Hounam, presumably from the village in Scotland just over the Cheviots. In Northumberland it gradually morphed into Whonnam and Whinham. Sometimes it changed in the parish registers for the same family or even the same person. Something to do with the accent. In some families further into Newcastle and Durham it didn't evolve at all.
Eleanor is in IGI but as Hownam so you will find her there, baptised 19 June 1763, daughter of Joseph.
Dave, if you look at the BTs for Felton you will find the twins, Ann and Dinah, baptised 10 August 1799, the 2nd and 3rd daughters of George and Eleanor. The key to Thomas may be if there was a BT for Richard in Edlingham or if someone can look at the Edlingham registers. He is still in that period when the full genealogy was given. It should tell you what number son he is. I have a CD of Edlingham transcripts but it doesn't provide the full detail.
The frustration with many Northumbrian families is that they moved round so much for work, mainly agricultural. Hartburn, Rothbury, Felton and Edlingham parishes cover big areas. Felton and Edlingham have common boundaries as do Hartburn and Rothbury.
I can give you quite a bit on Eleanor and her family/ancestors if that is your line and I'll have a look for Thomas.
The Northumberland and Durham Family History Society sell a number of parish register transcripts on CD, that is where I got my Edlingham ones.
Best wishes, Janet
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Ag. Labs. are a pain aren't they - a child in every parish, depending on the season. Playing 'guess where they went next' can be a lifetime's work but much better now there's a lot of indexes online.
If you don't find Thomas by Wednesday I'll have a look for him when I'm at the records office - as you'll have no doubt guessed I actually live in the beautiful county :)
Christine
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From what I can work out of the birth sequence, we have Joseph (1786), Mary (1790) in Hartburn, I have found a Ralph (May 1797), Felton, Ann and Dinah (1799), Felton, Richard (1802) and Alice (1804), Edlingham.
There is also a marriage of Joseph in 1812 in Edlingham, a witness being the elusive Thomas. Thomas isn't on IGI, so, a parish without good coverage is Longframlington, which sometimes has entries included in the mother church of Felton but sometimes not. Glantlees where George was working, is, if I remember correctly, in the Longframlington bit and there is a nice gap between Mary and Ralph.
Christine, if you do get to Woodhorn, then maybe it might be a good place to look.
Janet
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I am sorry to slightly mislead, Richard Potter and Alice Potter were baptised in Eglingham parish , abode was N. Bewick. Unfortunately Eglingham is not on Bishops Transcripts site.
I don't know if you are aware but Edlinghamd and Eglingham (and Bolam) parish registers are available free on Google Books, if you read online they are easily searchable, if you download you have to rely on the indexes.
http://www.archive.org/details/registersedling00pargoog
If you search for parish registers Northumberland when you get there you will see the other parishes available.
Yes I would like you to see if you can find Thomas, everything I have tried has failed. The key evidence is his burial showing aged 44 in 1831 which suggest birth year 1787, i.e in between Joseph and Mary. I have enough evidence to link him to Alice Potter daughter of George and Eleanor.
The final set of children for George and Eleanor
- Joseph bap 2/4/1786 Hartburn
Thomas ???????1787 probably Hartburn
Mary Bap 28/3/1790 Hartburn
Ralph Bap 15/5/1797 Felton
Ann Bap 10/9/1799 Felton
Dinah Bap 10/9/1799 Felton
Richard Bap 28/3/1802 Eglingham (living at N. Bewick)
Alice Bap 19/2/1804 Eglingham (living at N. Bewick)
William Bap 20/4/1806 Eglingham (living at N. Bewick)
Janet - thanks for the potted history, that really helps to clarify the evolution of the family name.
Again many thanks
Dave
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I suspect that if Thomas was born in 1787 then he would be showing up in Hartburn parish. As he's not there then perhaps his age at death is incorrect. Age at death is the most suspect information of all as it's given by someone who may not be sure of the correct date. In the 18th C it was quite common for people not to know exactly when they were born and all ages have to be given a bit of lea-way.
If Longframlington isn't well covered online as you say, Janet, then it's worth having a quick look on Wednesday. Any other possible parishes not already checked?
Christine
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Timeline for Thomas Potter
George & Eleanor married 30 Jan 1785 Hartburn
Joseph baptised 2 Apr 1786 Hartburn
Thomas Baptism estimated 1787 due to age 44 at burial
Mary baptism 28 Mar 1790 Hartburn
Ralph baptism 15 May 1797 Felton (abode Glanston)
Dinah & Ann baptism 10 Aug 1799 Felton (abode Glanston)
Richard baptism 28 Mar 1802 Eglingham (abode N Bewick)
Alice baptism 19 Feb 1804 Eglingham (abode N Bewick)
William baptism 20 Apr 1806 Eglingham (abode N Bewick)
Thomas Marriage 7 May 1815 Edlingham
Thomas Burial 5 March 1831 aged 44 Edlingham
My thoughts are that Thomas would not have been born any earlier and Joseph was born 14 months after the marriage, the 1787/8 window appears possible and these years are missing on BT. That then leaves the possibility during the 1791-1796 window. IGI only offers two possible Thomas Potters during this period, one was a son of a John potter, the other was baptised March 12 1786 son of George Potter in Stamfordham , this one would conflict with Joseph.
Christine hope another look at Hartburn reveals something. A big favour while you are Woodhorn, can you look at baptisms for the following to see if they reveal anything further about parents
Sarah Potter baptised 22 Jul 1751 Rothbury son of Thomas
George Potter Baptised 14 Jun 1754 Rothbury son of Thomas
Edward Potter baptised 3 May 1758 Rothbury son of Thomas
Janice I woudl appreciate any birth/marriage details you can give me for Eleanors parents.
Again many many thanks
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Yes, Dave, I can do that.
As for not finding the right Thomas on IGI - not all parishes are covered so he could still be lurking undetected.
Christine
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Dave,
I have had a look on my Rothbury CD and Sarah, George and Edward are all children of Thomas Potter of Snitter.
Christine, Longframlington is the only under represented parish on IGI, that I'm aware of in that area, apart from Longhorsley which is in the Beta site BTs.
Dave, Eleanor Hounam's ancestry is:
Parents Joseph Hownam and Eleanor Graham. They married in Whittingham, 1 May 1752. Their children were all baptised at Edlingham. Joseph was baptised at Whittingham on 9 March 1718, son of Richard. Richard married Mary Reed of Titlington on 23 January 1717 at Eglingham.
Eglingham, Edlingham and Whittingham parishes have common borders.
Eleanor, wife of Joseph, was buried on 12 April 1795 in Edlingham. She was a widow but I've still to find Joseph's burial.
Rothbury/Whittingham was a bit of a Hounam cave but unfortunately the Whittingham registers go flaky before the early 1700s so that's as far back as I can get. I have siblings and stuff if you want more.
Janet
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Another Thomas Potter on the go in Edlingham at around the same time.
Two baptisms at the Sion Meeting House and Bondgate Congregation in Alnwick :
John the son of Thomas and Elizabeth Potter, Stuart and Woodkeeper at the Overthoughts (?) in the township of Lemmington, parish of Long Edlingham, born 12 July 1804 and baptized the same month.
William, the son of Thomas and Elizabeth Potter, Stuart and Woodkeeper, Lemmington in the parish of Long Edlingham, was born August 26th 1806 and baptized September the same year.
Alan.
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Key facts are that children of Thomas and Alice after their death live with an unmarried Aunt Alice birth year 1804 and her illegitimate daughter Eleanor. Alice daughter of George and Eleanor is the only one I can find that matches. Also Thomas was witness at 'brother' Josephs marriage in Edlingham.
Dave
p.s. just to correct my earlier reference to google archive - If you view the PDF online it is searchable, if you download the pdf files they are not searchable. But if you download the DJVU file and get yourself a DJVU File Viewer they are searchable, at a click of a button I can find every reference to Potter in a complete register. Finally one register does not show as an obvious entry which may be of interest which is the 'Bothal with Hebburn', just search on 'Bothal, the book that comes up is correct but shows the wrong description. This register confirmed that the Thomas Potter born in Hebburn/Hebron in 1786 to Father George is not the one I need as this one dies in 1808.
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Hi Dave,
I haven't had a good day for finding things today.
No Thomas that I could see in Hartburn between 1787 and 1790 and none in Longframlington from 1790 - 1797.
Where else could he be :-\
Christine
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Janwhin- Are you a Whinham?
I am new to genology and I am researching the Whinham family tree. My father and another Whinham from Hull did some research in the 80's and I have all their research into the Whinham. It may be of some use?
Chris
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Hi Chris, indeed I am! A.N. Other from Hull did a lot of travelling round the north east getting information on Whinhams. He was in touch with my dad. He produced a lot of family trees for the various branches, some good, some bad! I too eventually started doing loads of research on the Whinhams and have several private trees on Ancestry for the various branches, trying to get back to a relatively common root.....frustrating, the records run out before there's any merge! I managed to get the Hull group back to Rothbury via Alnwick. Even more frustrating, DNA gave me a relationship to the Hull branch but I run out of Rothbury registers before I can make a link.....its there somewhere.
Look forward to hearing from you, Janet
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I dont know if when searching the Potters you have come across a James Potter I,ve been trying to find him for a while he was living Bamburgh parish (a sailor) when his daughter eleanor Isabella was born 1830 James wife was Anne I think she may have been Anne Burn the daughter Eleanor Isabella
was living at Fenton Hill 1841 census with James Burn a blind fiddler and his wife Isabell Copeland
and I can,t find any trace of Eleanor,s parents since her birth No census death records or anything else