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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: geoanngewood on Tuesday 10 August 10 13:30 BST (UK)
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hi there does anyone have imfo about hffs i am looking for a baptism 1866 to 1872 heckmonwike area thank you ann
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Hi
Sorry can't help with HFFS but why not post the details on here and we will see what we can find :)
Rosie
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The Society's website is at: www.hdfhs.org.uk
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I nave just had a 3 yr search done for a birth of john henry wood did not find him i think maybe he had another sirname his dad james wood wed a hannah sykes in birstall in 1871 john birth birth was abt 1866 heckmonwike dewsbury i got that from 1911 cen thanks ann
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Do you have the marriage cert for James and Hannah for their ages?
The only John Wood I can find in 1911 born Heckmondwike is John Edward Wood.
It's possible he was Hannah's child before marriage but with such common surnames it's difficult to find them in 1871 before the marriage without more details.
Christine
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Try and find this John Henry in the censuses first and find his bapt before thinking of buying this GRO event.
See Steve Whitwham website and contact him by his email as for advice as founder member of the Huddersfield HFHS
http://www.whitwam.co.uk/
Hartshead is just above Heckmondwike.
Wood John Henry Halifax 9a 495 Births Dec 1869
could be district as below ???
district of Halifax till 1937
Hartshead
WRY
1837
1937
after 1937 see Brighouse, Liversedge (in Dewsbury district)
This would fit the marriage 1871 Birstall of James and Hannah better
census age is more a guide.
Best I can do
Dobby
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I have received a pm from Ann, have advised her to keep the details on here.
hi just found james wood mc to hannah sykes he says he was 41 she sayes she was 31 he was a widower his job iron moulder his dad a cordwainer hannah sayes she was living at staincliff batly .her dad was joseph and he was a engine tendar the wittness were richard goodall and james roberts they got wed 26 may 1871 at the parish of birstall james was living at heckmonwike dewsbury I have james daughter katy orett bc and in 1858 he was still a iron moulder . in 1911 john henry wood was living i masborough eotherham . when james got wed he should have been abt 45 i found a hannah sykes in 1871 living staincliff batly age 23 regards ann
I still can't find John Henry in 1911 and wonder how you have got back to James and Hannah.
The ages on marriage cert don't correspond with the ages you have for them earlier.
You need to give all details you have, ie John Henry's marriage cert.
Christine
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Hi Christine,
I too agree that before one can help we need to know the first rungs of the ladder are right, there are hundreds of threads where rootschat members have helped!!! in detail through the census years and some even have been to libraries to collect parish register events ETC! 16th to 19th centuries . Then we get a reply their first guess in the LDS IGI or census was wrong.
http://www.rotherhamweb.co.uk/district/masbro.htm
Quote ; masborough eotherham ; Unquote is Rotherham South Yorkshire in the Metal engineering in Don valley of Rotherham and Sheffield. is very possible as iron moulder
Found this as seems the only Dewsbury marriage for a John Henry Wood
Marriages Jun 1900
Langfield Louisa Dewsbury 9b 1360
Peaker Oswald Ward Dewsbury 9b 1360
Vipond Alice Louisa Dewsbury 9b 1360
Wood John Henry Dewsbury 9b 1360
16th april 1900 Ravensthorpe Dewsbury
Groom John Henry Wood age 21 father Jonathan Wood
Bride Alice Louisa Vipond age 22 father Joseph Vipond
could by telling porkies on his wedding cert age 31 in census born 1867 or and error somewhere as age out 10 years
1881c
Jonathan WOOD Head M Male 43 Cleckheaton, York, England Iron Moulder
Mary WOOD Wife M Female 42 Cleckheaton, York, England
William WOOD Son U Male 19 Cleckheaton, York, England Wire Card Dresser
Anthony P. WOOD Son U Male 18 Cleckheaton, York, England Small Wire Drawer
James WOOD Son Male 16 Cleckheaton, York, England Wire Card Dresser
Fanny WOOD Daur Female 13 Cleckheaton, York, England Mill Hand (Fac Textile)
Mary Jane WOOD Daur Female 10 Cleckheaton, York, England Mill Hand (Fac Textile)
Alice WOOD Daur Female 6 Cleckheaton, York, England Scholar
Harry WOOD Son Male 3 Cleckheaton, York, England
Dave
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There is John George Wood from Birstall b 1865
1881 c
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
James RIPLEY Head M Male 64 Thornhill, York, England Coal Miner
Mary Ann RIPLEY Wife M Female 53 Birkenshaw, York, England Power Loom Cloth Weaver
John George WOOD Boarder U Male 16 Birstal, York, England Coal Miner
Raikes Lane
Census Place Gomersal, York, England
WOOD John George Dewsbury 9b 559
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I think I've finally found John in 1911, birthplace mistranscribed as Ykeckmonresike.
If this is the correct one he was born 1873, married to Charlotte for 17 years.
In 1901 the same person is using the name Henry, age 29, born Dewsbury. Eldest child is 7. Henry is an iron worker.
I can only find a Jonathan in 1891 with mother Harriett.
Do you have his marriage cert?
Christine
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Is this them?
Free BMD
December 1893 Rotherham 9c 840
John Henry Wood and Charlotte Cocking
(a message is attached to the entry re mother Hannah perhaps from you
Ann?)
Sorry to ask this, but how do you know that James is his dad? I'm not sure that I am understanding it. ???
heywood
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I nave just had a 3 yr search done for a birth of john henry wood did not find him i think maybe he had another sirname his dad james wood wed a hannah sykes in birstall in 1871 john birth birth was abt 1866 heckmonwike dewsbury i got that from 1911 cen thanks ann
The one we are looking at in 1911 is born 1873 not 1866- have we got the wrong one in 1911?
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The one we are looking at in 1911 is born 1873 not 1866- have we got the wrong one in 1911?
Maybe I have got the wrong one in 1911 but he's the only John Henry I can find born Heckmondwike so we'll have to wait for Ann to come back to the thread.
It does appear that it could be the same Ann who posted a note against the marriage to Charlotte Cocking.
Christine
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I nave just had a 3 yr search done for a birth of john henry wood did not find him i think maybe he had another sirname his dad james wood wed a hannah sykes in birstall in 1871 john birth birth was abt 1866 heckmonwike dewsbury i got that from 1911 cen thanks ann
If John Henry was born or bapt 1866 surely he would be named John Henry Sykes if his spinster or widow mum was Hannah Sykes? 5 years later James Wood married Hannah Sykes in 1871 in Birstall
Christine says 1873 as John Henry Wood birth year from 1911 c Rotherham as Charlotte Cocking seems the correct wife for Christines find and has the Heckmonwicke birth link. 1911 seems funny we can't find them 71,81,91,1901 censuses. ???
Dave
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Maybe
1881
David Tinker 36 head
Ann Tinker 35 wife
John Wood 7 nephew b 1874 born Dewsbury
Res Pitt house Shepley Kirkburton Huddersfield
Marriages Mar 1876
WOOD Ann Lee Huddersfield 9a 466
TINKER David
Married 25 March 1876 Southowram Brighouse Near Heckmondwicke
Ann Lee Wood age 30 single bride Father George Wood
David Tinker age 30 single Groom Fathet George Tinker
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I think I also saw a John Wood b Heckmondwike with parents Joseph and Mary.
We don't know yet how James and Hannah come into this.
If we have the right family in 1911, then there is a marriage certificate which would then confirm his father's name. Maybe Ann has that ??? We'll have to wait for her to come back.
best wishes
heywood
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Hi Heywood
your right-wait
But all she asked for! was HFHS? so she may not! ???
Regards Dave
Ps Info maybe of use to other researchers one day :D so nothing lost! :)
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If Kate Orette Wood born 28th May 1858 & father was James Wood mother Mary Jepson -Kate Oretta was John Henry Wood sister and John Henry Wood was born about 1866
Who is Hannah or how are James and Hannah Skyes married 1871 connected ??? a lot later or was this James's twice married after Mary Wood had died.
Its like a itch you can't quite reach. ::)
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Its like a itch you can't quite reach. ::)
;D
Christine
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This could be John in 1891.
Clough Rd, Masbrough, Rotherham.
Hannah Wood, head, wid, 35, b. Dewsbury,
John H. Wood, son, s, 19, Brick Maker, b. Dewsbury.
Henry Sharpe, lodger, s, 42, General Labourer, b. Ivison
RG12/3849/94/22
Can't see them in 1881.
Ann's other post "Wood family Masbrough Rotherham" gives further info on the family. Not sure how to post a link to it. Has Johns father, James Wood and first wife Mary Jepson, living in Masbrough in 1851, Conisborough 1861.
Looks like John Henry was just born a bit later than Ann thought, his marriage cert should confirm.
Alan.
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If anyone wants a key to this Pandora's box key search
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,458827.msg3198199.html#msg3198199
My Granddad Herbert Tidmarsh (Titmarsh) born 1867 Bolsover Derbyshire birth was never found but is bapt Jan 1868 In Wales in Yorkshire. That took me years to find and work out. Wales was a mining village 2 miles past the Derbyshire border in South Yorkshire. His Dad Samuel Tidmarsh was born in Balsall Temple Warwickshire 1844 Samuel TITmarsh moved to Derbyshire to his sister to find work. The surname was Tidmarsh-Titmarsh and the one that was'nt enough what really threw us was Lidmarsh in the census. If thats not enough I found Sams Dad by accident after years of looking as I forgot to put the R in Tidmarsh in IGI-TIDMASH and there was Thomas Tidmash also TITmash born 1805 Atherstone Warwick as he said in the 1841c in Balsall Born Atherstone.
I know first hand how valuable this info seeking is.
So Ann! keep looking as Surnames so change.
Good Luck
Dave
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Hi Dave,
I had read that yesterday but I am still not clear where John and Hannah come into this. ::)
Is Kate Oretta Wood really the ancestor and John H a side branch in the tree or is John H the ancestor and does Ann know from his marriage cert. that he is the son of James?
I'm feeling a bit confused and inadequate ::)
heywood
PS - that looks good Alan re Hannah and John H :)
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Hi Hey,
I'm transcribing Kirhheaton 1600- 1641 BTs for our Library as the Church pr 1653 are lost. I was putting Hewy down as Tolson Ms 517 had done also a 1700's transcribe of these BT's at Leeds on flim for years 1600 to 1616 also Hewy- I just didn't seem right and I checked the actual original at Borthwick York -It was linked Henry on loads of Surnames as Hewy in the transcriptions of both. It had to be Henry after the Kings them years. It was.
Thing is was this mistranscribed Heckmonwicke West Yorkshire (Now)of birth place in Rotherham census that caused confusion 1911c is the key too all this. as all the other info is Rotherham area.
John Henry Wood is Ann's Husbands Granddad first ancestor to work back from.
Dave
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John Henry Wood is Ann's Husbands Granddad first ancestor to work back from.
Dave
I'm with that bit ;) However, she said 1866 and we found him 1873 (ish) so that was hurdle number 1.
My concern is, that because we are who we are and like to solve these matters, we are looking for John H when Ann is looking for a birth/baptism.
Does she have all other details?
Hence, my confusion re John Henry's parentage.
heywood :)
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Hi Hey again
As you say we like to help solve these hard requests.
The way Ann has been putting out request for help on the free BDM's with the yellow envolopes also on here! maybe leave this thread an go on to the other thread link above or reopen it.
Dave
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Hi Dave,
I've just cross referenced and put a little note on the other one .
:)
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Some further info, from Googling Anns posts on another forum,
Ann has both of John Henry Wood marriage certs, first to Charlotte Cocking, children Mary Ann, Harold, Frank, John and William. Charlotte died aged 41. Also second marriage to Rose Thorpe in 1916. Some of the children from this marriage are still alive. On both marriage certs his father is James, believes his mother was Hannah.
So it looks like we have the right John in 1911 and 1901 census with Charlotte and family. Its the "born in 1866" that is the red herring, as from all the census info he was born 1871-1873. Looks like the 1891 census is the right one also.
I think Ann was after help in both her posts on here in identifying John Henry's birth in Dewsbury in 1866-1870, but really she needs to be looking at 1871-1873. Would help if we could find them in 1881 as well. Ann also already a marriage cert for James Wood (widower) to Hannah Sykes in 1871, so thats probably the right one. Kate Oretta Wood is a bit of red herring, a probable half sister of John Henry, from James Wood first marriage.
Alan.
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Well that answers my queries :)
thanks Alan.
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Nice detective work Alan and well presented to understand all these snips of info on all these forums.
So it now down too Dewsbury Parish registers and surrounding areas as not all BMD's are in freesearch. A subscription member could look through the quarter by quarter GRO's on Anc*st*y .c*.uk for 1871 -75 as long job though for John Henry Wood! or Ann could contact Dewsbury register office. There could be a workhouse baptism or a nonconformist or RC bapts.
I'll take up the baptism search for John Henry Wood of Dewsbury at Wakefield archives and other sources.
Dave
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Births Mar 1875
Wood John Hey Dewsbury 9b 648
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I'm late joining this thread and hope I've followed it all. You are looking for the birth of John Henry Wood circa 1873 in Dewsbury reg district. On census returns where he's been identified, his year of birth is consistent at circa 1873, and place of birth Heckmondwike. I have searched the original GRO births qrt x qrt 1871 - 1873 and didn't find anything suitable. There are six John Wood's born 1871-1875 in Dewsbury, but no John Henry. Of course he may have been registered as John Wood and Henry added at his baptism. The John Hey Wood birth Dob's found could be him, the registrar may have entered him as John Hry Wood and it was copied wrongly, though admittedly that birth seems a little late, however it wouldn't be the first time someone has gone through life believing themselves to be older than they actually are.
Within the Wood family there's definitely a Heckmondwike area connection. In 1871 George and Kate, children of James are living in Heckmondwike. RG10/Piece4590/Folio75/Page46.
They are still in Heckmondwike in 1881. RG11/Piece 4553/Folio 107/Page 27.
And this could be James in 1871, his age is out by a few years but all other details fit, he's an iron moulder, a widow, and born Rotherham. RG10/Piece4564/Folio140/Page29.
Apologies if I've repeated anything previously posted. My info doesn't take us nearer to John Henry's birth, but does suggest a Heckmondwike connection.
Is the marriage between James Wood and Hannah Sykes a definite, or a maybe? I've searched census returns but cannot find them together. Do we know when James died?
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Hi libby9
I found this on the net
Quote
hi I am looking for a family of johnhenry wood born dewsbury abt 1865 to hannan from battly carr he wed a charlotte cocking in 1893 the children were frank 1896 harold oliver 1900 mary ann 1894 she wed a george green in 1914 charlotte died then he wed rose thorpe1916 there children were grace cecil george henry and roy I am doing this has roy is not well and I would like to find out what i can also john william was charltte son born 1905 hoping some one out there can help please john henry is my husbands grandad yors ann
Unquote
There is little outward input from Ann but there seems an urgency about it! as she left little notes wanting help on all John Henry Wood GRO free bmd's entries and spouses of James.
There seems to be nothing as to James Wood siblings around down run of usual bapts of his children after marriage year in the IGI or Census 1851 onwards if he married Mary Jepson 1848 June Rotherham 22 407 (With Ann's Note attached) also no census on John Henry Wood 1881c also 1891c seems iffy?. As you will well know that marriage age do differ to birth/bapt and death age but the first census after birth year usually is the best indicator to a real age or birth year later census years as they go in to adulthood ages do vary or in this case 1911c. This be the case 2 years out from 1911 census age (1873) and no infant age of John Henry 1881c-? I hope John Hey Wood birth 1875 is the right John. In retrospect of total knowledge of the dad James it seems as if he hid at times of recording of events of his family. In view of the fact that a John Henry Wood was Hung for the murder of Mr Coe in Rotherham in 1880- I can see why James kept his son out of the lime light on the 1881c even more if they were related.
http://www.whistonweb.co.uk/stories/1880.htm
Thought to be James 2nd Wife Hannah Sykes married 1871 Birstall James could have died by 1881c as he be getting on in years.
I'll try and find the 1875 John Hey Wood bapt
I wonder if John Hey or Henry is down as John Heywood 1873?-just a thought?
Dob.
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Lib
No we don't know when James Died- I'm thinking 1870's
Dobby
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Hi Dob's,
I think we need Ann to come back to the thread to clarify some details. I would like details about James Wood's marriage to Hannah Sykes. Does Ann have the marriage certificate to prove it is 'her' James. Also I'd like to know how Ann knows for sure that Kate Oretta and George were half siblings to John Henry, ie what proof is there?
As you know, family history research is worked back from your parents. We move one stage at a time from parents to grandparents, great grandparents etc. Unless I'm missing something here, Ann doesn't know John Henry's mother's name for certain, either first or surname. So I can only conclude she's jumped a generation; and gone from John Henry to James and Hannah with no proof. John Henry's marriage cert's name his father as James, but there's no proof his mother was Hannah.
Ann, please don't despair; we are all here to help you, but first we need to know what documented evidence you have, other than John Henry's marriage cert's, and how you've come to think Kate and George were John Henry's brother and sister. Post everything you know to be fact, and we can then go ahead with further searches. We'll try our best, honest!
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Some further info, from Googling Anns posts on another forum,
Ann has both of John Henry Wood marriage certs, first to Charlotte Cocking, children Mary Ann, Harold, Frank, John and William. Charlotte died aged 41. Also second marriage to Rose Thorpe in 1916. Some of the children from this marriage are still alive. On both marriage certs his father is James, believes his mother was Hannah.
So it looks like we have the right John in 1911 and 1901 census with Charlotte and family. Its the "born in 1866" that is the red herring, as from all the census info he was born 1871-1873. Looks like the 1891 census is the right one also.
I think Ann was after help in both her posts on here in identifying John Henry's birth in Dewsbury in 1866-1870, but really she needs to be looking at 1871-1873. Would help if we could find them in 1881 as well. Ann also already a marriage cert for James Wood (widower) to Hannah Sykes in 1871, so thats probably the right one. Kate Oretta Wood is a bit of red herring, a probable half sister of John Henry, from James Wood first marriage.
Alan.
Hi Alan
Ann should know exactly John Henry Wood's birth year from two marriage certificates from John Henry himself by his two ages on the cert's
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The John Hey birth doesn't appear to be the correct one as it appears he died.
Deaths Jun 1875
WOOD John Hey * Dewsbury 9b 417
The age is clearly 0 on the image
If the Hannah is correct in 1891 she is only 35 and although she shows as widowed in 1891 there is a Hannah Wood of correct birth year and born Dewsbury in earlier years but no John with her in 1881.
According to the details Ann posted from the marriage cert Hannah was 30 in 1871.
Christine
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Morning all,
Ann states on her second post on the thread (I haven't worked out how to do quotes yet) that John Henry Wood was "born in Heckmondwyke Dewsbury in about 1866, I got that from the 1911 census". However, the John Henry Wood in that census, born Heckmondwyke Dewsbury, living with the correct family so we know he's the right one, is aged 38. I think if thats all Ann is going off, she must have just miscalculated the dates. I agree, if Ann has his marriage certs they should also help confirm his age.
The only other definite sighting we have of him is in 1901 census, down as Henry Wood, but living with the right family so we know he's the right one, and is aged 29.
So its possible we are looking for the birth of a John Henry Wood, a John Wood, or a Henry Wood. Or, assuming that the marriage of James Wood to Hannah Sykes is the right one, perhaps he was born just before the 1871 marriage and then we are looking for a John Henry Sykes, a John Sykes or a Henry Sykes.
he he.
Alan.
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Last evening, I thought, as you do, I'll leave this one- there are good searchers there and I'm still not sure ::) However, this morning- a different day, I'm back looking- thanks to the recent posts. ;D
Other questions for Ann when she comes back- do the witnesses at the marriages help at all?
What is the occupation of James the father? Is it consistent on both John H's certificates?
What is John H's address on his marriage to Charlotte?
(He may have been invented or misnamed).
regards
heywood
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There is plain Henry Wood born Dewsbury 1872 who didn't die at birth year.
I'll see what turn up at the library as they have Dewsbury Pr's also Nonconformist.
We want PR info of James Wood Hannah Syke marriage 1871 for details
James Wood marriage 1848 to which Mary being two in Gro
John Henry Wood marriages 1893 & 1916
John (H)enry Births/bapts if any
Henry Wood bapt 1872 or 1873
Ill get back in a week or so ;) if Ann does not return or you nice people don't find something relevant?
Dobby
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Quote;- The John Hey birth doesn't appear to be the correct one as it appears he died.
Deaths Jun 1875
WOOD John Hey * Dewsbury 9b 417 :o
:-[ :'( :'( :'( :'(
Ho! The Shame :(
How Stupid of me! :-[ :-\
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1901 census RG13/ Piece 4396/ Folio 76/ Page: 26. Address: 7, Vine St, Masborough.
Allan Cocking 60
Mary Cocking 62
Allan Cocking 24
Joseph Cocking 17
Hannah Wood 50, general servant domestic, born Batley Carr.
Allan Cocking is the father of Charlotte, John Henry Wood's wife.
Hannah is still living with the Cocking's in 1911 where her age is stated as 66.
So, the question is: Is Hannah Wood above, John Henry's mother? She may, or may not be. Are these census returns where Ann has got her info?
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Hi Libby
Nice find ;) that confirms Hannah Skyes Marriage to James at Birstall 1871
Right we need this marriage to find James's Birth details of if any -so with John Henry being Hannah's son birth Circa 1872/3 just after this marriage event! its fair to say John Henry would be born around Birstall or Batley car as they state Dewsbury as their birth place. This could bring in Leeds (Morley) Wakefield (Tingsley) Bradford (Birkenshaw) and Halifax (Hartshead- Brighouse) also Mirfield- Ravensthorpe and Thornhill.
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Hi Dob's,
Yes, finding that marriage would be great, but as it's a second marriage for both they may not have wed in church.
I think I've read somewhere that Ann has the marriage cert, and it says Hannah was a widow, in which case it should also give her birth surname. Mind you I admit I'm a little confused with it all, so maybe she doesn't have the cert. Where's Ann? Ann, we need you :)
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I have received a pm from Ann, have advised her to keep the details on here.
hi just found james wood mc to hannah sykes he says he was 41 she sayes she was 31 he was a widower his job iron moulder his dad a cordwainer hannah sayes she was living at staincliff batly .her dad was joseph and he was a engine tendar the wittness were richard goodall and james roberts they got wed 26 may 1871 at the parish of birstall james was living at heckmonwike dewsbury I have james daughter katy orett bc and in 1858 he was still a iron moulder . in 1911 john henry wood was living i masborough eotherham . when james got wed he should have been abt 45 i found a hannah sykes in 1871 living staincliff batly age 23 regards ann
Ann sent me the details of the marriage in a pm Friday, the last time she was online checking her profile.
Christine
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Do you know, I think Ann has all this info and reall ujust wants to find J H's birth ;)
1871 RG10; Piece: 4585; Folio: 24; Page: 2
Hannah Sykes 23 yrs b Batley Carr - is a general servant in Batley -with a family called Iveson/Ineson - he comes from Heckmondwike!
Marriage of Hannah and James Wood -June quarter 1871 Dewsbury
so if this is the right James Wood and JH was born 1872 ish= then Hannah is likely to be mum.
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Thanks Christine for posting the marriage details.
Heywood, you may be right, I'll bow out for now.
If a baptism could be found that would be great, Dob's ;)
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Hi Hey
One has to respect peoples wishes as when they have paid for the certificate! they don't want all unsundry benefiting by it hence won't put on line info on them etc.
This info is from a public record free to all and not from a GRO
Birstall Parish register
Page 161 event number 333
Marriages
James Wood - age 41- Widower- OCC Iron Moulder- Abode Heckmondwicke -father John Wood Fathers Occ Cordwinder.
Hannah Sykes -age 31 -spinster- Occ (Blank)-Abode Staincliffe Batley carr
Father Joseph Sykes Father Occ Engine Tinder (Tinderman)
James Wood signed his name
Hannah Sykes left her Mark
In press of (Witnesses)
Richard Goohall
James Robuck
Mr (Unreadable first name) Kemp curate
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The ages at marriage don't add up with census details found. It appears he underestimated, and she overestimated, maybe to make the age difference more respectable? As census records say he would have been about 44, and she about 25.
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Definitely seems the right marriage, James' two children from his first marriage were in Heckmondwike in 1871. So, I believe a baptism search is the way forward. It's possible John Henry was registered as plain John; a date of birth would help pin down which John Wood he is.
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Hi Libby
It even more vague in the archives-I have checked all the C of E Birstall Heckmondwicke Liversedge-Staincliffe-Batley carr-Batley- Robertown and Dewsbury also Nonconformist Chapels covering Years 1870-1875 and nothing also very few Wood families
Poll books are showing nothing and all I could find was Hannah Sykes of
Central St Staincliffe in Batley Poll book 1868.
Its as though James came up from Rotherham met Hannah, married her and she by census had John Henry and shot they off back to Rotherham.
Its one for Sherlock Thingy and Dr Watson
We tried but time to call it a day in the by absence of interest in aforesaid.
Regards Dave
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This is the best we can do as a proof of John birth to Help Ann. and Roy?
1901 census RG13/ Piece 4396/ Folio 76/ Page: 26. Address: 7, Vine St, Masborough.
Allan Cocking 60
Mary Cocking 62
Allan Cocking 24
Joseph Cocking 17
Hannah Wood 50, general servant domestic, born Batley Carr.
Hannah 66 in 1911c
Allan Cocking is the father of Charlotte, John Henry Wood's wife.
Marriage of John Henry Wood to Charlotte Cocking 9c 840 Marriages Dec 1893 Rotherham
Birstall Parish register
Page 161 event number 333
Marriages
James Wood - age 41- Widower- OCC Iron Moulder- Abode Heckmondwicke -father John Wood Fathers Occ Cordwinder.
Hannah Sykes -age 31 -spinster- Occ (Blank)-Abode Staincliffe Batley carr
Father Joseph Sykes Father Occ Engine Tinder (Tinderman)
James Wood signed his name
Hannah Sykes left her Mark
In press of (Witnesses)
Richard Goohall
James Robuck
Mr (Unreadable first name) Kemp curate
Poll books are showing nothing and all I could find was Hannah Sykes of
Central St Staincliffe in Batley Carr Poll book 1868
1891c
Clough Rd, Masbrough, Rotherham.
Hannah Wood, head, wid, 35, b. Dewsbury,
John H. Wood, son, s, 19, Brick Maker, b. Dewsbury.
Henry Sharpe, lodger, s, 42, General Labourer, b. Ivison
RG12/3849/94/22
Hannah is still living with the Cocking's in 1911 where her age is stated as 66.
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Dob's,
I know how thorough you are when searching, so if you didn't find a baptism - it ain't there.
If he was baptised, it must have been in the Rotherham area. Birth's of course, had to be registered in the district the child was born, therefore, Dewsbury. I can only deduce he was registered as John Wood, not John Henry.
Ann, have you had a search done for Dewsbury births 1871 - 1874? If not, that has to be your next step.
Good luck, Ann. He can't hide forever, there must be a birth reg, try narrowing your search to plain John Wood.
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Timescale: remind me when did James' wife Mary die, and where?
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Hi Libby
Off the record and only my opinion!
James Married Hannah 1871 and they moved to Rotherham, they were left off the 1871 census in transit time of moving having no fixed abode as a new married couple. John Henry maybe conceived before the marriage in 1871, was born in this transion time and never got register as did my Granddad as my Gt granddad moved to Scarecliffe in Derbyshire from Wales village in Yorkshire around my granddads birth time as he never got registered.
Cocking and Batley carr Prove
Thanks to everybody pp Ann
Dave
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I received another pm from Ann late last night and she seems to be having some problems getting back to this posting.
Hopefully she'll find her way back now.
I'm not sure if this birth reg has already been posted but wondered if this could be him as he was 19 in 1891.
Births Jun 1871
Wood John Dewsbury 9b 559
Christine
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No one else is having problems with this website also Rootschat admin will help with this!, but there something strange about all this thread posters approach as was pointed out to me last night by other members by PM and leaving notes on the GRO FreeBMD's website of possible register events.
Sometimes its a case some people will do anything not to buy certificates?? was again pointed out.
Most people pay for their immediate Grandparents GRO's ???
These weblinks will resolve this issue
http://www.archives.wyjs.org.uk/wyjs-archives-collections-guides.asp
http://www.kirklees.gov.uk/answers/register-office/certificates.shtml :o can leave notes on this website as well but cost!! ie-! It use to be about £3 to £4 for dud (Wrong) certificates the crux of this issue for us all. :-\
We have gone behond all help we can give to normal requests or reasonable expectation of us.
DOBFARM :)
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Hi Libby
Off the record and only my opinion!
James Married Hannah 1871 and they moved to Rotherham, they were left off the 1871 census in transit time of moving having no fixed abode as a new married couple. John Henry maybe conceived before the marriage in 1871, was born in this transion time'
Cocking and Batley carr Prove
Thanks to everybody pp Ann
Dave
I think my reply 44 - has Hannah in 1871- it was before the marriage I think so she is still single. If that birth of a John Wood in June quarter 1871 is correct- it would fit as they perhaps got married to make the birth legitimate. If the marriage took place in church (can't remember if this has been posted) the baptism may be at the same place.
Ann needs to apply for a certificate stating the parents names.
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1871 RG10; Piece: 4585; Folio: 24; Page: 2
Hannah Sykes 23 yrs b Batley Carr - is a general servant in Batley -with a family called Iveson/Ineson - he comes from Heckmondwike!
Marriage of Hannah and James Wood -June quarter 1871 Dewsbury
This was my post 44 re Hannah earlier in thread.
I think this is James in 1871
RG10; Piece: 4564; Folio: 140; Page: 29
James Wood 40 yrs widower Iron Moulder b Rotherham
boarding in Leeds
even though I have had a pm from Ann, I have posted here because of the interest and hard work by you all.
heywood :)
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Hi Hey
One has to respect peoples wishes as when they have paid for the certificate! they don't want all unsundry benefiting by it hence won't put on line info on them etc.
This info is from a public record free to all and not from a GRO
Birstall Parish register
Page 161 event number 333
Marriages
James Wood - age 41- Widower- OCC Iron Moulder- Abode Heckmondwicke -father John Wood Fathers Occ Cordwinder.
Hannah Sykes -age 31 -spinster- Occ (Blank)-Abode Staincliffe Batley carr
Father Joseph Sykes Father Occ Engine Tinder (Tinderman)
James Wood signed his name
Hannah Sykes left her Mark
In press of (Witnesses)
Richard Goohall
James Robuck
Mr (Unreadable first name) Kemp curate
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No one else is having problems with this website also Rootschat admin will help with this!, but there something strange about all this thread posters approach as was pointed out to me last night by other members by PM and leaving notes on the GRO FreeBMD's website of possible register events.
Sometimes its a case some people will do anything not to buy certificates?? was again pointed out.
DOBFARM :)
In Ann's pm to me I understood her to mean she hadn't found her way back to this query but she must have if she's sending pm's to other people.
It does appear that she does have certificates so not a case of not wanting to buy them. I just don't understand why she doesn't reply on here.
It's much easier than sending pm's as everyone involved can see the details.
Christine
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Hi Christine,
I think in the beginning (and from looking at Ann's other thread) that I thought she had John H but then was 'picking' his ancestry from censuses. Additonally, my thoughts were that he may have invented a father James on his marriage (s).
However, as it has transpired that doesn't seem to be the case.
Now I have come to realise that Ann needs some sort of birth confirmation re John H and as it is not apparently in the records because of the common name, then perhaps a baptism may show up because that would have his parents.
Whether this is a money saving exercise or there is a genuine need of help, we don't know, because she is not returning to this thread to acknowledge the very hard work everyone has put in to help her.
I can understand that people do find it difficult to find a post when they are newcomers to rootschat, however, the fact that she is sending PMs to posters indicates that she is reading this thread ???
It would seem more difficult to me for a novice to send a PM, than press the reply button.
As I have posted earlier, I am quite happy to think that Hannah and James are in 1871 at separate addresses, not yet being married so the easiest solution would be for Ann to apply for a birth registration using the parents names and James' occupation as references.
Unfortunately, because we are receiving these odd pm communications, it is detracting from the situation and making Ann seem discourteous and trying of my (maybe 'our') patience.
best wishes
heywood
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Hi Christine,
Fact is we have helped and she'll have something if only to back up what info she has. This post will help other researchers of Wood's? hence carried on with also helping our selves to keep learning as we go! so nothing lost.
One phone call to Dewsbury reg office should resolve this John Henry Wood unknown date of birth 1870-1875 ish by anyone concerned one way or another.
Take care
Best regards
Dave
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Hi Christine,
I think in the beginning (and from looking at Ann's other thread) that I thought she had John H but then was 'picking' his ancestry from censuses. Additonally, my thoughts were that he may have invented a father James on his marriage (s).
However, as it has transpired that doesn't seem to be the case.
Now I have come to realise that Ann needs some sort of birth confirmation re John H and as it is not apparently in the records because of the common name, then perhaps a baptism may show up because that would have his parents.
Whether this is a money saving exercise or there is a genuine need of help, we don't know, because she is not returning to this thread to acknowledge the very hard work everyone has put in to help her.
I can understand that people do find it difficult to find a post when they are newcomers to rootschat, however, the fact that she is sending PMs to posters indicates that she is reading this thread ???
It would seem more difficult to me for a novice to send a PM, than press the reply button.
As I have posted earlier, I am quite happy to think that Hannah and James are in 1871 at separate addresses, not yet being married so the easiest solution would be for Ann to apply for a birth registration using the parents names and James' occupation as references.
Unfortunately, because we are receiving these odd pm communications, it is detracting from the situation and making Ann seem discourteous and trying of my (maybe 'our') patience.
best wishes
heywood
Hi Hey
If Mary did die in 1865 prob child birth also she thought that John was born in 1865 again prob From John Henry's age on his two marriages. Wortley is on the Huddersfield road above Rotherham & Chapletown and the fact that a John Henry Wood birth is in Wortley in 1865 and Ann was very positive about 1866ish maybe the route of her concerns as Mary Jepson born 1811 Wortley maybe the key? being John H (or Hannah) used Dewsbury as his birth place as past forgot of Mary's life. I would not us James Birth age 41 as a yardstick 1871 marriage Birstall. Wortley sits on the valley of steel foundries of Sheffield and Rotherham as too knowledge of the none existant steel industry of Heckmondwicke or Dewsbury suggests this but that another story past tense!
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hello every one I want to say a big thank you to each and every one who has wrote a message I dont know what to do to send a thread will this be the one connfusion sets in at 60 I have john h wood two mc and his death ct I would love to get his birth I made cotact with dewsbury twice about his birth they did not have one 1866 to 1867 with dad james mother hannah .and I have had a three yrs search done from 1865 to 1867 . the reason I still go for them dates is in 1916 when he he was 50 and when he died he was 71 in 1937 many thanks you again ann
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Oh Ann,
we are so glad you're here. This is the 'thread' and you have posted here- that's what was needed. :)
I hope you have followed the various finds we have made.
As James and Hannah did not marry until 1971, she would not be his mother. She is single in 1871 as a servant.
As we have found, neither james nor Hannah were too truthful about their ages - it may not have mattered that much.
The main thing is that people know exactly what you already have as fact.
Who were the witnesses on John Henry's marriage to Charlotte?
heywood
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Hello Ann,
Welcome back to your thread :)
Thanks for clarifying why you think John Henry's birth was circa 1866/7.
I'm not convinced he was born so early. If Hannah 1901/11 staying with the Cocking's, is John's mother, then I believe the 1891 census posted on your thread is 'your' John, and he was born circa 1873. Also the 1901/1911 census have recorded his age as circa 1873.
So, the question is: are the census records mentioned above another John? If not, why would he consistently state his birth year circa 1873, if infact he was born 1866. If he was born 1866, and James and Hannah married 1871, surely his birth should be registered as John Henry Sykes as Sykes was his mother's name.
Do you have any other bits of info you can share with us, anything which may help the search?
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Hello Ann,
Pleased you've made it back here.
You have obviously based his age from his 2nd marriage cert and his death.
The census details we have found suggest he was born 1872 or 1873 as he was 19 and 29 in 1891 and 1901 so are more likely to be correct.
I think you need to be looking for the birth 1871-1873.
Christine
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I wish Ann would stay just long enough to answer some more of our questions :D
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The main thing is that people know exactly what you already have as fact.
Who were the witnesses on John Henry's marriage to Charlotte?
heywood
Heywood, do you mean John Henry and Hannah? If so, Dob's gave the names from the PR's, they are .......
Richard Goohall and James Robuck
Added: Ignore this post, I'm very confused, you will be too if you try to make sense of my comments ;)
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I thought James married Hannah?
I am looking for any clues re John Henry's first marriage?
he is in 1891 with Charlotte and we think we have him with Hannah in 1881 but not sure - is that right?
I could be very confused ::)
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I thought James married Hannah?
I am looking for any clues re John Henry's first marriage?
he is in 1891 with Charlotte and we think we have him with Hannah in 1881 but not sure - is that right?
I could be very confused ::)
Sorry, Heywood ignore me; I'm getting my John's and James' mixed up.
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Hi Ann,
Nice to have you back! we get so many on this website who will play people about? and if they don't reply then it make it very hard to help.
There are two possibles
Either Mary Jepson(Wood) James's first wife had John Henry 1865 Wortley she died in child birth and was brought up by Hannah also she made it look as if He was her son on the census's
or
John Henry was as census say as Hannah son born 1871/2/3
As I said earlier that there was no real heavy steel industry round Heckmondwike 1870's and the lack of any evidence of them living in or the birth of John Henry there either GRO or Baptisms also James not in the Electoral Rolls or Newspapers in BMDs. There is also the strongest fact that there is no evidence of James in Heckmondwike area we know of 1871c. Though Libby points out Hannah and John Henry are together 1891c stating they were both born in Dewsbury it could be Hannah did not know John H's birth place. Futher to this is who looked after the children of Mary Jepson after her death till James married Hannah in 1871c
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I think we're all confused ;D
I was thinking he'd reduced his age on 2nd marriage but realised he'd made himself older.
In 1891 he was with Hannah, John H Wood in Kimberworth, Rotherham age 19
In 1901 he was with wife Charlotte, down as Henry Wood in Rotherham age 29
1911, John Henry age 38 with wife Charlotte in Rotherham
Christine
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This 1871 census is complicated. It appears to have George and Kate, John's children born to his wife, Mary Jepson/Wood.
All Charlesworth's born Heckmondwike. Living: High St, Heckmondwike.
John Charlesworth 51, Fishmonger
Mary Jane Charlesworth 40
James Charlesworth 18
Henry Charlesworth 15
John Charlesworth 12
Edward Charlesworth 10
Charles Charlesworth 4
Mary Ann Charlesworth 25
Hannah Charlesworth 20
Ann Charlesworth 8
Charles Drew 50, brother, Norfolk
George Drew 45, brother, Norfolk
George Wood 20, son in law, iron moulder, Rotherham
Kate Wood 14, daughter, Rotherham
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John Charlesworth
Mary Ann or Sarah Ann Whitehead
Marriage: 25 DEC 1835 Rotherham, Yorkshire, England
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This 1871 census is complicated. It appears to have George and Kate, John's children born to his wife, Mary Jepson/Wood.
All Charlesworth's born Heckmondwike. Living: High St, Heckmondwike.
John Charlesworth 51, Fishmonger
Mary Jane Charlesworth 40
James Charlesworth 18
Henry Charlesworth 15
John Charlesworth 12
Edward Charlesworth 10
Charles Charlesworth 4
Mary Ann Charlesworth 25
Hannah Charlesworth 20
Ann Charlesworth 8
Charles Drew 50, brother, Norfolk
George Drew 45, brother, Norfolk
George Wood 20, son in law, iron moulder, Rotherham
Kate Wood 14, daughter, Rotherham
Brothers Drew and Daughter Kate & Son in law George Wood
Can't make make any sence off it
What names are listed below Kate or next door
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Me neither, Dob's.
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Me neither, Dob's.
Can you bob up/down the street see if any Wood or Jepson or Sykes turn up
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Can;t see any.
Looking at the original image I think George and Kate should have been indexed as a separate household. FindMyPast and Ancestry have lumped them all together. George has married status.
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Hi Libby
My first though was George married a Charlesworth Daughter but they are named Charlesworth and but would be Wood
You Know My Great x1 Granny was Sarah Wood in Hampton in arden Warwickshire wife of Thomas Tidmarsh Mother of Samuel my great Granddad who moved to a village of Wales near Rotherham is sister was living in Bolsover Derbyshire, We have never done her F-history and have never found the link to Rotherham only Sams sister in Bolsover. Considering I can't find my grandfathers birth Rotherham in 1867 and his gran was Sarah Wood. ?????
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This 1871 census is complicated. It appears to have George and Kate, John's children born to his wife, Mary Jepson/Wood.
All Charlesworth's born Heckmondwike. Living: High St, Heckmondwike.
John Charlesworth 51, Fishmonger
Mary Jane Charlesworth 40
James Charlesworth 18
Henry Charlesworth 15
John Charlesworth 12
Edward Charlesworth 10
Charles Charlesworth 4
Mary Ann Charlesworth 25
Hannah Charlesworth 20
Ann Charlesworth 8
Charles Drew 50, brother, Norfolk
George Drew 45, brother, Norfolk
George Wood 20, son in law, iron moulder, Rotherham
Kate Wood 14, daughter, Rotherham
Libby or onyone who can look up!
What names (5) are list directly under Kate on original page ?
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Good morning folks ;D
I looked at that entry last evening and then just gave up- dejected :'(
Mainly because, I think and I can't make Ann do anything, I know, but I just wish you (Ann) would give the later birthdate a try and ask for a search and not limit to Dewsbury either.
If nothing turns up- then fair enough but at the moment there is no sign of John H in 1871 but both Hannah and James are there separately and James' other two children are also there without a Wood/Sykes (apparently).
However- now that is off my chest- back to 1871.
The entries seem to indicate that there are three differfent households.
At Ann (Charlesworth) there is //.
Then comes the Drew brothers //.
Then comes George and Kate //.
Then a Hargraves family in the local pub.
heywood
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PS - although George does have 'married' status - the actual census does look as though there could be 'un' squashed in the previous column, thus making him 'unmarried', together with 'Son in law' which incidentally is written above 'Head' which has been crossed through ::)
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PS - although George does have 'married' status - the actual census does look as though there could be 'un' squashed in the previous column, thus making him 'unmarried', together with 'Son in law' which incidentally is written above 'Head' which has been crossed through ::)
Hi Hey,
With you on trying to make sense of census and Ann should re try a 3 year search 1871-1873 Dewsbury and Rotherham at her discretion.
Just a thought! George still maybe married status (unlikely though) but Kate could have been his wife at 14 then. OK! If George and Kate Wood are not in the same abode or house as separate entities Charlesworth family// Drew Brother// George Wood son in law (Of who) and (Kate Wood daughter of who).
Your last post you say both James wood and Hannah Sykes lived in Heckmondwike 1871! I have seen your reply census 1871c with Hannah but NOT seen where James Wood was in 1871c
Dave
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I never mentioned Heckmondwike in 1871 ;D
This is what I think anyway and have already posted:
1871 RG10; Piece: 4585; Folio: 24; Page: 2
Hannah Sykes b 1848 Batley Carr is a servant in Batley
1871 RG10; Piece: 4564; Folio: 140; Page: 29
James Wood b 1831 widower iron moulder b Rotherham is a lodger in Leeds
I think Libby posted this possibility way back. ;)
So they are not together but do get married within a couple of months
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Good morning folks ;D
I looked at that entry last evening and then just gave up- dejected :'(
Mainly because, I think and I can't make Ann do anything, I know, but I just wish you (Ann) would give the later birthdate a try and ask for a search and not limit to Dewsbury either.
If nothing turns up- then fair enough but at the moment there is no sign of John H in 1871 but both Hannah and James are there separately and James' other two children are also there without a Wood/Sykes (apparently).
However- now that is off my chest- back to 1871.
The entries seem to indicate that there are three differfent households.
At Ann (Charlesworth) there is //.
Then comes the Drew brothers //.
Then comes George and Kate //.
Then a Hargraves family in the local pub.
heywood
OK you didn't say Heckmondwicke 1871c but its Heckmondwicke where Kate and George are 1871 c are also Staincliffe Batley carr and Heckmondwicke near as one area
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I never mentioned Heckmondwike in 1871 ;D
This is what I think anyway and have already posted:
1871 RG10; Piece: 4585; Folio: 24; Page: 2
Hannah Sykes b 1848 Batley Carr is a servant in Batley
1871 RG10; Piece: 4564; Folio: 140; Page: 29
James Wood b 1831 widower iron moulder b Rotherham is a lodger in Leeds
I think Libby posted this possibility way back. ;)
So they are not together but do get married within a couple of months
Hi
With you now! James is Near in Leeds
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Mary Dead 1871
George and Kate alive 1871
James in Leeds not married widower
Hannah Sykes is in Batley Spinster
John Henry Where? or not born
Married in 28 May 1871 Birstall.
Hannah Sykes dad was an Engine Tender and The Morley Tunnel Batley to Morley Leeds. They would need steel desperately ? in industry. Kirkstall Leeds
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I never mentioned Heckmondwike in 1871 ;D
This is what I think anyway and have already posted:
1871 RG10; Piece: 4585; Folio: 24; Page: 2
Hannah Sykes b 1848 Batley Carr is a servant in Batley
1871 RG10; Piece: 4564; Folio: 140; Page: 29
James Wood b 1831 widower iron moulder b Rotherham is a lodger in Leeds
I think Libby posted this possibility way back. ;)
So they are not together but do get married within a couple of months
Can you give detail of area of Leeds District where James was lodging Emuneration district and street. (Ie Morley or Gildersome -Kirkstall etc)
http://mauriceboddy.org.uk/WoodY.htm
http://www.steamindex.com/manlocos/kitsons.htm
http://www.secretleeds.com/forum/Messages.aspx?ThreadID=309&StartAtMessage=25
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morley_Tunnel
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Hi All
While I'm on a runner though wise!
Then no abode of John Henry infant in the 1871c with any direct known relo's also Let assume Hannah is up the swaney spout
with John Henry in 1871 at Batley end (Daddy a Engine tender on the railway) of Morley Railway Tunnel and James is in some foundry at the other end in Leeds
prob Kirkstall or Elland Road (Now football ground now) Airdale foundry near the rail line. Thus where would John Henry be born.
http://www.archives.wyjs.org.uk/documents/archives/Collections%20Guide%207.pdf
http://www.lostrailwayswestyorkshire.co.uk/Birstall%20Goods.htm see map
http://www.lostrailwayswestyorkshire.co.uk/index.htm Explore this website (Interesting maps)
Put 'Dewsbury railways' in Google search
Kate b 1858 is back in Rotherham 1881 as either
Marriages Mar 1881
AIZLEWOOD Arthur Rotherham 9c 625
Wood Kate Rotherham 9c 625
1881c
Arthur AIZLEWOOD Head 22 Rotherham, York, England Filer Of Palisades (W Smith)
Kate AIZLEWOOD Wife 25 Swinton, York, England Telegraphist (C S)
Eliza AIZLEWOOD Sister UM 24 Rotherham, York, England General Domestic Servant
1 Alma Road Rotherham
or
George WOOD Head 30 Rotherham, Lancashire, England Iron Moulder
Mary A. WOOD Wife 29 Heckmondwike, York, England
Edward E. WOOD Son 7 Heckmondwike, York, England Scholar
Annie L. WOOD Daur 5 Heckmondwike, York, England Scholar
Florence WOOD Daur 2 Heckmondwike, York, England
Kate G. WOOD Relative U 24 Rotherham Woollen Bl Weaver
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Hi Dave,
well if they were giving marks for effort and enthusiasm - you would be A*. ;)
In 1871 - James is boarding ar 2 Batty's Yard Leeds (West) so no area shown.
Somewhere back in the thread, someone (apologies) has mentioned a birth for John Wood? in same quarter as the marriage or at least the quarter after which could be a good bet.
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Hi Hey
Would not put all my thinking on line normally but Chistine asked Ann to put info on line for all to read.
I'm trying to think which parish around Batley-Morley-Leeds area on the Dewsbury Leeds rail line where John Henry might have been baptized
He's 8 years old in 1881 and he's not with sister Kate or brother George.
If James is dead by 1881 c then he's with Hannah as 1891c maybe a workhouse at Staincliffe or Rotherham maybe or Domestic service.
Jack H Wood
or Just Jack or Jon
Jonny- Jimmy (Mistranscribed) -Johnny Etc.
Dave
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I honestly think we have come to the end of our searching. It's up to Ann to perhaps ask for a different search- at registry office not on rootchat - ::)
Not sure which ones she has asked for but I think this is the one I think I meant ::)
1871
June quarter : Wood John Dewsbury 9b 559
best wishes
heywood
(hoping to now retire from this until Ann comes back with some sort of comment.
Still waiting for any clues re witnesses at John/Charlotte marriage.
However, they were to point us to him and I think we have him now in 1881 anyway.
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This 1871 census is complicated. It appears to have George and Kate, John's children born to his wife, Mary Jepson/Wood.
All Charlesworth's born Heckmondwike. Living: High St, Heckmondwike.
John Charlesworth 51, Fishmonger
Mary Jane Charlesworth 40
James Charlesworth 18
Henry Charlesworth 15
John Charlesworth 12
Edward Charlesworth 10
Charles Charlesworth 4
Mary Ann Charlesworth 25
Hannah Charlesworth 20
Ann Charlesworth 8
Charles Drew 50, brother, Norfolk
George Drew 45, brother, Norfolk
George Wood 20, son in law, iron moulder, Rotherham
Kate Wood 14, daughter, Rotherham
1881c
Dennis CHARLESWORTH Head W Male 69 Liversedge, York, England Card Maker (S M)
Ann WOOD Daur W Female 44 Liversedge, York, England Housekeeper (Dom)
Allatt CHARLESWORTH Son W Male 43 Liversedge, York, England Card Maker (S M)
George H. CHARLESWORTH Son U Male 33 Liversedge, York, England Farmer
Frederick CHARLESWORTH Son U Male 30 Liversedge, York, England Card Maker (S M)
William WOOD Grandson Male 12 Liversedge, York, England Scholar
Benjamin LEWSEY Serv U Male 40 Huddersfield, York, England Farm Servant (Ag Lab)
Hightown Liversedge, York, England
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I honestly think we have come to the end of our searching. It's up to Ann to perhaps ask for a different search- at registry office not on rootchat - ::)
Not sure which ones she has asked for but I think this is the one I think I meant ::)
1871
June quarter : Wood John Dewsbury 9b 559
best wishes
heywood
(hoping to now retire from this until Ann comes back with some sort of comment.
Still waiting for any clues re witnesses at John/Charlotte marriage.
However, they were to point us to him and I think we have him now in 1881 anyway.
Hi Hey
Ann is reading so just keep adding to the thread anybody over time somthing may come to light.
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I honestly think we have come to the end of our searching. It's up to Ann to perhaps ask for a different search- at registry office not on rootchat - ::)
Not sure which ones she has asked for but I think this is the one I think I meant ::)
1871
June quarter : Wood John Dewsbury 9b 559
best wishes
heywood
(hoping to now retire from this until Ann comes back with some sort of comment.
Still waiting for any clues re witnesses at John/Charlotte marriage.
However, they were to point us to him and I think we have him now in 1881 anyway.
I'll give it a week or so as abapt entry Morley-Heartshead above high town. Liversedge
Dave
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I have to agree with everyone that Ann needs to try for a birth reg 1871-1873.
Of course there's always the possibility that he wasn't registered because although it was compulsory it was up to the registrar to seek out the births before 1874
This is an extract detailing this.
Originally, the registrars had to travel around and visit the people who had an event and make a note of the details. A new Act of 1874 removed this and it was up to the people to visit the local registrar office to record the event.
This is another possibility for the birth.
Births Mar 1872
Wood John Dewsbury 9b 604
Christine
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Hi Christine,
Did they have apdoption ( ie;- at say a 10 year old child! if Hannah could not have children) them days ?
With no Bapt, Birth or 1881c records of John Henry (Wood ?)
Just a thought
Dave
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There were no legal adoptions until the 1920's.
I think John and Hannah and maybe James are either very badly transcribed in 1881 or are missing from the census.
I have a couple of families I have been unable to find in various years.
It's now up to Ann to come back to the thread.
Christine
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Do we not have them in 1881? I have been thinking we had ::)
Is Hannah with John? I was just going to look for them, thinking that Hannah and John were together in 1891 but just remembered that John is married to Charlotte in 1891 and we have them.
I think that is right is it? I haven't checked back over the thread.
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Hi Hey
I think geoanngewood is having problems as I got a notification she had posted then it came up and disappeared when I clicked the link also had a few notifications of threads I never replied too of recent
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No one has found the 1881c of James, Hannah or John Henry
I have been at YAS Claremont all day but called at our Library in Huddersfield on my way home-The Lib staff and I had the maps of Heckmondwike/Birstall Checked C of E and Non conformist Chapel around Birstall at Birkenshaw-Oakworth and Gomersal- also Liversedge non-conformist all to no avail.
Without the 1881c we are talking 19 to 20 year gap from this marriage 1871 at Birstall of James and Hannah
Gone broad? or Transportation of James to Australia, prison or in the Army family traveling with him or in another county south or north of Yorkshire.
That would explain John H missing off the register ie; born on ship.??
If James's death can be found ? a gravestone MI or Will may answer.
Other than that! as you say its call it a day - Hey
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Well not only have we lost Hannah in 1881- think I'm losing it. I was sure we had him ::)
It does say that rootschat is having problems tonight so maybe Ann's post has been affected by that.
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This could be John in 1891.
Clough Rd, Masbrough, Rotherham.
Hannah Wood, head, wid, 35, b. Dewsbury,
John H. Wood, son, s, 19, Brick Maker, b. Dewsbury.
Henry Sharpe, lodger, s, 42, General Labourer, b. Ivison
RG12/3849/94/
This is who we think is him in 1891, he married Charlotte in 1893. Hannah's age is out on this though going by Hannah Sykes in 1871 and even more by the marriage.
Christine
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Thank you :D
I knew he was a brickmaker on the one we think is him and then realised that he would be too young in 1881 ::)
It would be much simpler to have another go at a certificate ;)
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This website is going Botty
Whlie writing this its say there are 2 new realies in red above and I know there won't be? unless maybe Ann got through.
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Hi Hey
one last try!
Going to Wakefield Archives today (Have other stuff to do there aswell) and look at poor law records and poll books
School records if any!
John H Wood had to be somewhere 1870/80's
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James Taylor Baptist lay preacher held house service at Chapelfold Staincliffe Baptist. Sunday School built 1871-72 in Staincliffe road
The Minister Rev Simon Hall and most of the congregation left Chapelfold because of problems with the chapel trustees and Established a new congregation using the Sunday School premises in Staincliffe road Baptisms held in the local pond
Ann
Reassured people in repositories in Yorkshire now know of John Henry and will keep an eye out for him. We will post any info found on this thread as and when. YAS Leeds -Borthwick York-WYAS Yorkshire and Library staff & HFHS
Best regards
Dave
PS These people are the best of the best in ancestry.
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Heckmondwike school BOARD, RECORDS
Kirklees GB 204 UHE 8 boxes
St James' Board School, Upper Board School and Upper Independent School registers and accounts 1871-1901
West Yorkshire Archive Service, Kirklees
Central Library
Princess Alexandra Walk
Huddersfield, HD1 2SU
01422 392636
*************
Pitt Brothers Est 1852 - 1885 +
Factory: Alma Foundry, Liversedge, Yorkshire.
Founders: James, Joseph, Edward & William Pitt
Machine Made:
Circular Feed 1876 1882
Princess 1883
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You need Great imagination on this one
Hannah Tells Pokies over age
Pre Kids 1871 belong to Mary Jepson
1881c
Morley Tunnel
James Wood 47 Doncaster Near (Rotherham Border)
Hannah Wood 47 Walton Yorkshire(Hannah was only in Dom Service in Staincliffe)
John Wood 17 Roysten, Yorkshire, England (Near Rotherham)
James Henry Wood 13 Hunslet Born 1868
Elizabeth Wood 23 Roysten, Yorkshire, England (Near Rotherham)
1 Hills Yard Leeds (Batty Yard ?? Leeds 1871 James Wood)
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Well that doesn't match 1861 RG9; Piece: 3514; Folio: 14; Page: 21
for James re the children - they are George and Kate so don't think that's them.
I looked and looked (and looked again) for 1881 today but couldn't see them so I decided to stop.
Hopefully Ann will feel able to have another search in records.
heywood :)
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Walton Golf Centre-
Shangri-la, Baghill Road, Tingley, Wakefield, West
Howley Hall Golf Club Walton sites on or over Morley Tunnel
Top of Soothill lane Batley
Just south of Beeston Hunsett Leeds
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Well that doesn't match 1861 RG9; Piece: 3514; Folio: 14; Page: 21
for James re the children - they are George and Kate so don't think that's them.
I looked and looked (and looked again) for 1881 today but couldn't see them so I decided to stop.
Hopefully Ann will feel able to have another search in records.
heywood :)
Hi Hey,
Scratching Barrel Bottom now
OK There is a need to review all or Ann needs to relook at her basic facts
Ann thinks 1866 birth year
She's going by Kates birth cert for Hannah Sykes but there were 2 Kate's born Rotherham about 1858 one married in 1881 George could be any where and we can't fit anything to this Charlesworth family in Heckmondwicke.
IffY! Yes but cant rule it out!
:-[ ???
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Hi All
While I'm on a runner though wise!
Then no abode of John Henry infant in the 1871c with any direct known relo's also Let assume Hannah is up the swaney spout
with John Henry in 1871 at Batley end (Daddy a Engine tender on the railway) of Morley Railway Tunnel and James is in some foundry at the other end in Leeds
prob Kirkstall or Elland Road (Now football ground now) Airdale foundry near the rail line. Thus where would John Henry be born.
http://www.archives.wyjs.org.uk/documents/archives/Collections%20Guide%207.pdf
http://www.lostrailwayswestyorkshire.co.uk/Birstall%20Goods.htm see map
http://www.lostrailwayswestyorkshire.co.uk/index.htm Explore this website (Interesting maps)
Put 'Dewsbury railways' in Google search
Kate b 1858 is back in Rotherham 1881 as either
Marriages Mar 1881
AIZLEWOOD Arthur Rotherham 9c 625
Wood Kate Rotherham 9c 625
1881c
Arthur AIZLEWOOD Head 22 Rotherham, York, England Filer Of Palisades (W Smith)
Kate AIZLEWOOD Wife 25 Swinton, York, England Telegraphist (C S)
Eliza AIZLEWOOD Sister UM 24 Rotherham, York, England General Domestic Servant
1 Alma Road Rotherham
or
1881c
George WOOD Head 30 Rotherham, Lancashire, England Iron Moulder
Mary A. WOOD Wife 29 Heckmondwike, York, England
Edward E. WOOD Son 7 Heckmondwike, York, England Scholar
Annie L. WOOD Daur 5 Heckmondwike, York, England Scholar
Florence WOOD Daur 2 Heckmondwike, York, England
Kate G. WOOD Relative U 24 Rotherham Woollen Bl Weaver
( Why not Sister) ???
Piits Foundry In Alma Road Rotherham
Pitts Alma Foundry Heckmondwike
See Alma road with Kate AIZLEWOOD above Address
reminder ??? --Early days though
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Hi Hey
Another Question
Hannah Wood (Charlesworth) born say 1840 bit older than George
Hannah Wood (Sykes) Born say 1843
which is on later census 1901/11c
Marriages Dec 1865
Charlesworth Hannah Rotherham 9c 815
Wood George Rotherham 9c 815
poss George Dead by 1881
1881c
Dennis CHARLESWORTH Head W Male 69 Liversedge, York, England Card Maker (S M)
Ann WOOD Daur W Female 44 Liversedge, York, England Housekeeper Dom Allatt
Anne is the Key Bapt Birstall 1837 of Dennis Charlesworth in IGI
CHARLESWORTH Son W Male 43 Liversedge, York, England Card Maker (S M)
George H. CHARLESWORTH Son U Male 33 Liversedge, York, England Farmer
Frederick CHARLESWORTH Son U Male 30 Liversedge, York, England Card Maker (S M)
William WOOD Grandson Male 12 Liversedge, York, England Scholar
Benjamin LEWSEY Serv U Male 40 Huddersfield, York, England Farm Servant (Ag Lab)
Hightown Liversedge, York, England
or George Alive 1881
1871c
John Charlesworth 51, Fishmonger
Mary Jane Charlesworth 40
James Charlesworth 18
Henry Charlesworth 15
John Charlesworth 12
Edward Charlesworth 10
Charles Charlesworth 4
Mary Ann Charlesworth 25
Hannah Charlesworth 20
Ann Charlesworth 8
Charles Drew 50, brother, Norfolk
George Drew 45, brother, Norfolk
George Wood 20, son in law, iron moulder, Rotherham
Kate Wood 14, daughter, Rotherham
1881c
George WOOD Head 30 Rotherham, Lancashire, England Iron Moulder
Mary A. WOOD Wife 29 Heckmondwike, York, England
Edward E. WOOD Son 7 Heckmondwike, York, England Scholar
Annie L. WOOD Daur 5 Heckmondwike, York, England Scholar
Florence WOOD Daur 2 Heckmondwike, York, England
Kate G. WOOD Relative U 24 Rotherham Woollen Bl Weaver
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I have to agree with everyone that Ann needs to try for a birth reg 1871-1873.
Of course there's always the possibility that he wasn't registered because although it was compulsory it was up to the registrar to seek out the births before 1874
This is an extract detailing this.
Originally, the registrars had to travel around and visit the people who had an event and make a note of the details. A new Act of 1874 removed this and it was up to the people to visit the local registrar office to record the event.
This is another possibility for the birth.
Births Mar 1872
Wood John Dewsbury 9b 604
Christine
Its 'A' Gamble- Ann
This or the 1871 John Wood GRO
Think that it from me ! I can't better Christines advice.
Maybe Hey would link the last Comment. To Sum up!
Dave
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Hi Dave,
my summary is .... I haven't a clue ???
I am very confused re the Charlesworth/Wood connection and I think the thread has become clogged with information :o
If I recall, Ann has Hannah Sykes and James Wood- marrriage cert.
She has John H's certificates with father James.
Charlesworth census- is separate from Wood.
I can only think that if Ann is still with us (and she will have to be very strong to be so at this stage ;D) that she applies for those couple of certificates around 1871-1873 and discounts/ finds out re those Johns.
Sometimes you just have to go through that process of elimination.
Finally, it does seem that Ann finds this process quite daunting so the registrations that we have already quoted could be the start of a new search and to be honest, my opinion is that we have provided as much info as we can (maybe too much) at the moment.
I do hope that Ann comes back and reads this and if you want any short, clear (::) ::) ::)) pointers Ann, please just ask. If you do find out, please, please let us know the outcome. :)
heywood
Well done Dave, for the wealth of info you have provided about the area. ;)
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Hey
Alot of the info will be Crap! but puting Ann (Thread Poster Ann) a side
There maybe someone somewhere who just may hold a connecting link to something which now seems useless. Ie Bible BMDs or Sexton book Etc.
I got a PM from a poster on R/Chat for my Great Granddads Graveyard who's father was the Sexton and had his book.
You never Know what turns up.
IT was a good ride!
Regards
Dave
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IT was a good ride!
Regards
Dave
Yes -we enjoy the hunt but perhaps are a bit too enthusiastic ;D
See you soon on some other search ;)
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Ann can put this in the pending file and crack on as she Knows what most seek the parents and 3 census average dates of birth and occupation! so it not so bad.
Dave
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Hi All
This thread as a good ending through ideas given by posters and Libby9 has blundered on in a link she sent me has found my (Though was Sam but Jas Tidmas)
I found
Jacobus Tidmass bapt -01 MAR 1688 Wootton Wawen, Warwick, England my oldest Tidmas(h) father Josephi and Mother Annae
and from Ancestry.com tree hints
Bapt -Jan 1872 John Henry Wod -Staincliffe baptist chapel of James and Hannah
Image is Jams Titmas
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Hi All
and from Ancestry.com tree hints
Bapt -Jan 1872 John Henry Wod -Staincliffe baptist chapel of James and Hannah
I don't understand the rest of your post but are you saying you have now found the baptism at Staincliffe?
Has Ann contacted you at all as it appears she has been online but hasn't commented on the thread?
Christine
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Hi Christine
Above other info is to show how one has to look for all possible mis-transcribed (misread) in transcriptions of parish register baptisms -This example being one of my family
Free Bmds website have a contact email of the person who transcribed the GRO birth entries and can request a recheck as possible mis-interp of original birth entries
I put John Henry Wood in a temp tree on Ancestry.com, it brings up hints of trees past and present entries of anyone who has had John Henry Wood in a tree but gives no detail of source only basic facts.
As far as I know Staincliffe nonconformist registers are held at Kew National Archives London. Their website only give details up to 1837. (As GRO Births post 1837 take over.)
In view of Ann being on online on this website but not this thread. As far as some posters are concerned (email each other off rootschat) this thread is finished as no responce from party involved.
Dobfarm
Ps
Thanks too all posters in developing this thread** that other researchers may find invaluable one day .
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Thanks for the explanation.
Christine
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many thanks again I have been away for a few days and then computer went dotty I could not find my way back to you all I have printed 40 pages which you have all given me and will be able to look what you sent me .I am going to get intouch with dewsbury and for bc 1871 to 1873 to see if he turns up there . I still think his mom was mary and she could have died while giving birth to him but I havent find a death there is a death 1867 march q dewsbury it could be her i have john henry mc to charlotte cocking but i cant make the sirname out if you sent me a email address i could send it my email is .............. thank you all again ann
Moderator Comment: Email address removed to prevent spamming. Our personal message system is the best way to exchange such information. Click on the green scroll under the poster's name and follow the instructions.