RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: sheila_mc on Saturday 02 April 05 19:55 BST (UK)
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I would really appreciate any help anyone can provide me with.
I am trying to get my Grandfather's� birth certificate for my Mother. Based on the Canadian Army records that I have, he was born on January 2nd 1891 in Belfast. I used this information to try and order the birth certificate online, but I just received a letter stating that they can't find a record matching his info, and they searched through a� five year period. I checked the UHF site, and they showed a few records within 1-6 years of that year. Without knowing if any of these are the correct records, what else can I do? I am not far from one of the satellite LDS offices, so thought I would get them to bring in the Index of Births for the years around 1891.
Is it possible that the birth record is not available, just a baptismal record?
Can anyone look up any information for me?
This is the information that I have:
Joseph Patrick Ward
Born: January 2nd 1891, Belfast (although my Mother thought he was from Bangor - my Father said that he was part of St. Peter's Parish in Belfast)
Roman Catholic
Father: Michael Ward
I have three addresses listed for him in the records I have:
Father's Address December 1915: 2 New Street, Belfast
Father's Address 191? 329 Woodstock Road Belfast
Father's Address 1919: 118a Ardenlee Avenue, Belfast
One sibling, a sister.
Served 6 months in the 3rd Batt. R.I.R.
Thanks for any help!
Sheila McWilliams
Vancouver Canada
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Hi Sheila. this is a Irish one for you. I have a 1896 Belfast Street Directory (wait for it)
New St No 1
New St No 2
New St No 3
New St No 4
New St No 5
Yes 5 Streets with the name New St no Ward names there.
If you would like to send me your e-mail address i will e-mail the pages for new St & all the names for Ward living in Belfast 1896.
He could have lived in New St No 2 in 1915
I will check a 1915 Directory for you on Monday.
William Ward New St Bangor 1896.
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Sheila,
I saw your message & checked archives.ca. Joseph Patrick Ward lived at 58 Osborne St., Toronto when he enlisted in the Canadian Expeditionary Force for WWI. His next of kin was his father Michael Ward at 2 New St., Belfast. His serial # 311363.
I know it's not much but it might help.
Good Hunting.
J.A.M.
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Anthony, that would be wonderful.... the address came from the army records that were sent to me by the Canadian Government - there are about 60 pages photocopied pages and the New Street address is listed a few times as where Michael, his father lived, as part of his paycheque was sent there. He had moved by the time Joseph was discharged, but I don't have the address here with me now - I think it was some kind of retirement home perhaps as when I looked up the address on the map it was near the University and Hospital.
I'm just wondering if the birth records are part of the lost records.
btw, I see you've got my last name in your sig.... mine is from Omagh, Tyrone.
J.A.M. , thanks for the help - I didn't know you could look up the info online. I have photocopies from the DoD - unfortunately, there wasn't any kind of ID that was photocopied along with the war records. :-(
Sheila McWilliams
Vancouver
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Hi, I have a copy of the page with all the names for Ward living in Belfast 1915 if you would like to send me your e-mail address i will e-mail it to you.
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Hi Anthony, I have sent you a message with my email address. Many thanks!
Sheila
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Thanks for the file Anthony - as you said, there wasn't a Michael Ward at 2 New Street. I see there is a Michael Ward at 329 Woodstock Road though - perhaps that was the address at the beginning of the year, and he moved. Or I wonder if the "New Street" address was for a Post Office or some place like that, and that he actually did live in Bangor, and just collected the mail there?
Any thoughts?
Sheila
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Hi Sheila. I was having a look at things and this is what i think.
In one of the Street Directories there was 10 streets with the name New St and New Rd i think these where New St with no name as the New Rd is now called the Newtownards Rd.
Newcastle st
Newforge lane
Newfoundland st
Newington st
and so on what do you think about this.
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Well, the good news is that I've searched through Joseph's army records and discovered that the Michael Ward that is listed in the directory page that you sent me is his father - his address of 329 Woodstock Road is one of three that shows in his records.
The directory shows him as being a Corporation Inspector, whatever that is - probably a City employee I would imagine - maybe 2 New Street was an official City Hall type of address.
The last address I have for him is 118a Ardenlea Avenue.
Of course this still doesn't bring me any closer to getting Joseph's birth certificate, but it's
good to know I'm on the right track anyway.
Thanks for your help Anthony - much appreciated.
Sheila
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Hi Sheila. will call into the UHF and see if they have a index for a Joseph Ward with a father called Michael Ward.
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That would be wonderful Anthony. I did search their website, but they didn't list that year for him (1891) so I didn't bother the pay for the records they showed.
I guess my next course of action should be to get the LDS records sent in to my local office and search the microfilm myself.
And here I thought it would be so easy since I had an address and a birth date!
Sheila
btw, where are your McWilliams from?
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Hi Sheila. My McWilliams is my Mothers side don't know anything about them.
I stopped researching my family a long time ago i was not hitting Brickwalls but mountains.
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Hi Sheila. I was at the UHF today could this be your Joseph
Joseph Ward 2/11/1887 Father Michael Ward Mother Catherine Mc Kenna, St Malachy's RC Church Belfast .
He is the only one on the UHF Datebase with a father called Michael.
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Hi Anthony,
lol re: hitting the mountains
I don't think that that is the right one for some reason. I will order the microfilm from LDS and check the census records and with any luck find out some more.
If you happen to be down there again, maybe you could check for Patrick Ward, rather than Joseph - I just assumed that Patrick would be a Baptismal name, but maybe he went by his middle name instead. It's a mystery!
Thanks for checking for me - I really appreciate it.
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hey sorry i just registered with this place because i came across this thread in just one of those random searches sometimes you do of your own name...well my name is Joseph Patrick Ward and im from Belfast only 18 but my family i know have been from Belfast for a very long time now...i know this is a very tenuous reason for replying to your post, just it seemed a very big coincidence that i should have the same name and be from the same area....sorry if this is a complete waste of your time, it was unintentional.
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Hi Joseph
I am sure when the person that posted the original message sees your reply they will be delighted, you may be able to help them and who knows they could be a long lost relative Just wish some of my McKnight's from your neck of the woods would get in touch with me
audrey
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Hi Joseph
I am sure when the person that posted the original message sees your reply they will be delighted, you may be able to help them and who knows they could be a long lost relative Just wish some of my McKnight's from your neck of the woods would get in touch with me
audrey
Ive always been a bit curious about my family roots and what not, apparently i have a Spanish great great great gran.....i like to think it entitles me to have some of that samba spirit;)...and my family has in recent times had experience with finding lost relatives as a cousin of my mum around 96/7 i think got in contact with us and my mum didnt even know about...just seeing someone mentioned with the exact same name as me from the same place from over a 100 years ago just piqued my interest, i do know my family have a history of emigrating to,i have great uncles and aunts over in the States and Canada, so who knows?
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Nice to make your acquantance Joseph Patrick :-)
What part of Belfast are you from?
As far as I can tell, my relatives were in East Belfast, but I'm not sure for how long. His Father was in Belfast between 1915-1919 at least. My Grandfather Joseph emmigrated to Canada in the earlier 1900's - he ended up in Toronto. He also served in the RIR briefly, as well as in the Canadian Forces.
Joseph only had one sister apparently, but could have had uncles and aunts in Belfast as well. Still working on the case :-) . If you have any clues, I'm all ears.
Great name!
Sheila
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Hey Sheila,
You can just call me Joe :)
Im sure you have heard of Belfast's many troubles over the years, it has never been the most peaceful of cities. Im from West Belfast. The city is kinda 'ghettoised' as West Belfast is mainly Catholic, North and South mixed (where you may find most trouble happening) and the East is mainly Protestant. Your grandfather as you have stated was Catholic? That would make it more unusual for him to have come from the mainly Protestant East Belfast, but i myself have an aunt who moved there, and my grandparents on my father's side (That is the Ward family name side) lived fro a short period in East Belfast as in those days it was much more peaceful and less likely to cause tension. Im not sure what the demographics would have been in those days regarding the proportions of what faith, people followed in those areas but my guess is it would be relatively similar to today as it takes very long for things to change around here.
My Granda Ward he is called William Ward, i just noticed someone mentioned a William Ward further back, hmm well he was only born in 1934, but im unsure of what his father would have been called, i will check with my dad when he gets back. Hmm your father said something about him being from St Peter's Parish? well there is St Peter's Cathedral in West Belfast.....just wondering could the East Belfast thing be wrong? Just its more likely for a Catholic to be from West Belfast than East....though as i said its far from impossible. Im not as au fait with my family history as i should be, i have trouble enough remembering birthdays ::) All i'm really going on is the area similarity and the coincidence of our families names (which so far has been slightly uncanny i suppose, as familys usually pass down names right?) I hope im being of some help and not just leading you down blind alleys.
Joe
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Joe,
Yes, I'm aware of the 'Troubles" - we're Catholic and my Dad was from Omagh , where we still have many cousins, as well as in the South. One of my cousins was actually in downtown Omagh with three little cousins when the bomb went off. She said that it really seemed to draw people from both sides together to try and stop the violence.
We also have seen quite a few programs over here about the North as well being able to watch both UTV news and RTE news online. It seems such a shame that in today's day and age people can be labeled and judged just on their name, religion or place of residence. Although, from the sounds of some of the things, a lot gets blamed on religion when in fact it's would be considered 'gang' activities in other places.
We were in Omagh, Belfast and Bangor as well as the South two years ago. We were just briefly in Belfast though - stopped at the most bombed hotel in Europe and saw many murals. My sister was nervous about stopping, due to all of the reports (and it was early July) about violence at that time, and also, the style for the young men was to have their heads shaven, which we weren't seeing here in Canada at the time, so she thought it was off-putting. We continued through to Bangor and spent the day out there. It's such a different part of the country compared to the South - we noticed that there were more "flag wavers" in the North and not as much "Irish" tourism.
I'm not sure of anything about my Grandfather's family. He was killed fairly young in my Mother's life, so she really didn't have much information about him. Back then, you wouldn't be making many trips back and forth across the 'pond' and from what I've seen, men are not the famous ones for writing.
I do know that Michael Ward (ggf) did live on New Street as well as Woodstock Avenue (which is now a bookstore) and Ardenlee Avenue. I've seen mention of New Street off David Street near Falls Road, but I've only seen the other two streets mentioned in East Belfast. On the website for the Ulster Covenant, there are also New Street's listed in East and South Belfast. I hope to have more information once I can get into the Family History Centre here.
I'm hoping that I can find my Grandfather's sister Bridget Ward and her family, if she had any. So, if your family knows of a Michael Ward that had two children Joseph and Bridget, let me know. I would be most grateful.
Apologies to anyone offended by my 'off topic' posting.
Sheila
Vancouver
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Northern Ireland is a much more backward quagmire place compared to the south...and you are quite right about it being not so much about Religious doctrine or anything, people are labelled Catholic or Protestant here as a more tribal almost race type thing doesn't matter if you don't follow the faith anymore but if you were born Catholic you are a Catholic likewise with Protestants, its like being black to a racist, nothing can change their hate.
Sorry i wont be able to get much more information until my dad gets back as this would concern his side of the family. My granda died on Friday night and the funeral is tomorrow so i might not be on tomorrow but as soon as i get any info i will be sure to let you know.
Is there any practical way i could help from this end of things i do live in Belfast so i could check records or whatever here though i wouldnt be sure how i would go about it.
Joe
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Ochh no Joseph,as me Da used to say - I'm very sorry for your loss of your Granddad and with you so young - be with your family now and listen to the stories that they'll all have to tell. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.
Sheila
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Hey Sheila
Ahh my granda's funeral was quite lovely really. My grandparents lived in a wee seaside village called Waterfoot about 30 miles up the Antrim coast from Belfast...warm and sunny day and the grave is situated looking down towards the beach and sea....
Thank you for your thoughts and prayers they are greatly appreciated. I don't really know many of my family on my granda's side.....most of the people there i couldn't recognise...i knew my great uncle and y great aunt not too well but know them well enough....hmm made me realise my family is bigger than i thought it was...ahh at this moment i dont really have much info to share with you, but if anything comes up i will be sure to let you know.
Thanks again
Joe
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Sounds like a beautiful place Joe - he'll be very happy there :-).
Take care now and when I find out about my Grandpa Joe, I'll fill you in.
Sheila
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hmm i asked my dad today whether there have been any Michael Wards in our family and he said that my granda had mentioned a great uncle 'Mickey'...not sure how that fits in with the time frame of things and he is unsure whether he was a Ward or not......my dad's cousin is compiling a family tree though so he may be helpful.
Again thanks.
Joe
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Hi Sheila. I was at the UHF today could this be your Joseph
Joseph Ward 2/11/1887 Father Michael Ward Mother Catherine Mc Kenna, St Malachy's RC Church Belfast .
He is the only one on the UHF Datebase with a father called Michael.
Anthony
Hi Anthony,
You said that the UHF only listed one Joseph with a father called Michael - does that mean for all of Antrim and Down there is only one Joseph Ward whose father was Michael in the 1890's? Do they have 'all' of the records?
I was at the LDS and looked up the registration index for Joseph /and/or Patrick Joseph Ward and have a few possibilities, however, if the UHF has all of the records in their possession, I wonder about the sense of the searches. As they were closing, I didn't have an opportunity to find out if there is any way to see the actual records and the person helping wasn't too sure about the next step to take.
Now I'm more confused!
Sheila
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Hi Sheila. its the only one they have the info they have is from his birth Certificate, I don't think they have all the records.
Where you at the UHF in Belfast if you go back they will run a search for you.
Give them as much info as you can they are very helpfull there, you never know your luck.
They will let you see all the records they have for Ward
When you go to the Door you need to push the Door hard to get in.
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I HAVE 2 MARRIAGES ,BOTH FOR ST.PETER'S RC.FALL'S ROAD.
6 AUGUST 1883 MICHAEL WARD ----CATHERINE MCKENNA
29 JANUARY 1893 MICHAEL WARD----MARY KELLY
HOPE THIS HELPS.