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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Mr. Tibbs on Saturday 07 August 10 20:32 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help me? : (How can I find out whether William Reveley TENCH had an engineering factory in this area (He lived here.) or whether he was contracted by other factories. He was an engineer: a bridge builder.
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Hi
what year was this that you think Wm Tench may have had a factory?
Garstonite is a font about the area and he may be able to help
Cal 8)
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1891 he was a mechanical engineer -manager
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and then possible - ? engineer pier contractor
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,473584.msg3331965.html#msg3331965
this tells you a bit more jane
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Hi Mr Tibbs....I live in Garston and have a considerable amount of info .I have 2 books on the History of Garston....Sorry but William Reverley Tench is not mentioned in either book
We have a Historical Society....here is the link
http://www.garstonhistoricalsociety.org.uk/
I`ll see what I can come up with.......allan ;)
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In both books Francis Morton and Company is the huge metal bridge building firm established in 1881 in Garston...they built Railway bridges for all over the world....
do you have his address in the 1911 census ? .allan :)
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hey Allan
In the link I put up it would seem he was noy around in 1911
Cal 8)
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What a silly custard I am....OK , if he died in 1908 ...Thanks Cal....there is a William Revely Tench who marries in Leeds in 1906....on www.yorkshirebmd.org.uk (no `e` before the y )
married a widow
Mary Bell ....nee ,Mary Wilkinson.....wonder if that`s him
possible birth in June qtr 1871 in Houghton Le Spring , Co Durham on freebmd ?.....allan :) :)
ADDED...if we can find William Revely Tench and wife Mary in the 1911 census , we can discount this marriage )
Mr Tibbs, do you know if William married ?
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Hello Cal
Sorry there was no date: I don't think things through properly. William R was certainly in Garston in 1891. Thank you for responding so quickly. ;D
Pat
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Jane, thank you for adding information on William R for Cal - a great help. :)
Pat
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Hello Allan
I've just sent you a really long reply expressing my gratitude and delight in the two websites and the message didn't send! I'm not good at doing this but here we go again.
William Reveley TENCH (mother Elizabeth REAVELEY) was born in Winlaton, Co. Durham in 1848 (father Anthony). He married Margaret KELLET in Sunderland in 1871. From there: 1871 an unemployed florist and gardener in Darlington; 1881 a clerk in Mansfield, Nottinghamshire; moved on to Ipswich, Suffolk; 1891 a mechanical engineer and manager in Garston; 1901 a pier erection engineer in Elswick, Newcastle upon Tyne. Known in the family as a bridge builder-that would fit in with the firm you mentioned in Garston- and seems to have been abroad quite a lot. At least three sons became engineers: John Anthony was an associated member of mechanical engineers in India; Richard and James Renwick were engineers in Canada. Mary BELL was William's second wife (maybe that's why it has Mary BELL and WILKINSON on the Yorkshire bmds. Formerly, she was the housekeeper.
with grateful thanks
Pat
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Hiya Pat.,so William Reveley b 1871 is Williams son ? his 1st born
...there is a small chance...and I mean small.....go to www.ancestral-villages.co.uk and put garston in the village search box....garston , liverpool will show amongst others....click on this and you will find a list of people who came to Garston and the year they came....sometimes the address is there as well.....good luck...it is a free site...just register....it is quite a long list so read through it slowly ;) ;)....allan
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:) Allan :)
I have moved forward more in one day than I have done for weeks. This third site that you have shown me is just as exciting as the other two and although I cannot find my TENCHs, I can add my information and hopefully someone will know something. On 1891 census, William et al lived at 18 Island Road. I saw on the old map of Garston, an Island Farm. I surmise that their home would be somewhere near. Interestingly, the situation and occupations of Garston in 1891 were very similar to our area of the northeast: heavy industry in country villages near or on the side of the river Tyne.
Many, many thanks
Pat ;D ;D
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Wow...Island Road in 1891 ...Well, 18 Island Road is still there...Want a picture ??...I can take one on my mobile and forward it to your mobile....3 Storey Red Brick houses which were for the rich large families...they are all now divided into Flats....typical large house with 2 flats on each floor / or a load of bedsits...if you go to www.mapquest.co.uk and put in 18 Island Road , Liverpool . L19 you will see that Island rd leads to Seddon Rd which leads to the Dock Rd...where all the ships came in...Garston Dock is there furthest Dock on the South of the Mersey...Garston wasn`t part of Liverpool until 1902....so for convenience , ship owners / Captains / Bankers /and anyone involved with the shipping trade had a house around this area....I would be interested to know if William was there with his family only...or was he a lodger there...if he was a top class Metallurgical Engineer / Bridge Builder , he probably was rich.......allan ;)
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I'm sure you've seen the William Reveley Tench, Postmaster in Hale (not far from Garston) in 1905 in the Blachsheep index?
http://www.blacksheepindex.co.uk/BSI-TchTiz.pdf
Just making sure.
Ann
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Ann
'Hale, Cheshire' probably means the one near Altrincham, as the one on the Mersey near Speke only 'moved' to Cheshire in 1974.
A
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Really? Didn't know that.
Still, it's a pretty distinctive name, perhaps they're related.
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Hello Allan
I would love a photo but I don't have that facility. I'll look on Google Earth instead-thank you :)
William was at Island Road with his wife, nine children and a servant/housekeeper. The youngest child was born in Garston in 1892. I don't know whether William R was a really good Metallurgical engineer. The family background is farming and haulage contracting although nearby Newcastle was the hub of mining and engineering worldwide with the coming of the railways-leaders like George Stephenson and Lord Armstrong. William R's career seems quite chequered from 1871 to 1881. Wonder how he got from being a clerk to being a mechanical engineer...why did he go to Ipswich...was he an engineer in Newcastle before he married...was he forced to marry (William, the first child was born in 1871) and his career floundered? Now, my imagination is taking over - fatal!
Regards Pat
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Oh no...Ann I haven't heard of the Blacksheep Index before...does this mean William R went bankrupt? I know William was married in Leeds in 1906 and he was travelling abroad between 1906 and 1908 when he died in India (but I don't know how often). I assumed he was on an engineering contract. I wonder if his oldest son William was also named Reveley although he began his working life as a brass and iron founder. I can discover very little about him yet quite a lot about his other brothers. I suspect he may have died early in Fulham. Thank you for your help :)
Pat
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Ainslie-much appreciated: nothing like local knowledge to extract the correct information.
Pat with thanks :)
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Hello Allan
I would love a photo but I don't have that facility. I'll look on Google Earth instead-thank you :)
William was at Island Road with his wife, nine children and a servant/housekeeper. The youngest child was born in Garston in 1892. I don't know whether William R was a really good Metallurgical engineer. The family background is farming and haulage contracting although nearby Newcastle was the hub of mining and engineering worldwide with the coming of the railways-leaders like George Stephenson and Lord Armstrong. William R's career seems quite chequered from 1871 to 1881. Wonder how he got from being a clerk to being a mechanical engineer...why did he go to Ipswich...was he an engineer in Newcastle before he married...was he forced to marry (William, the first child was born in 1871) and his career floundered? Now, my imagination is taking over - fatal!
Regards Pat
So Pat...did any of the 9 children stay in Garston when William went to Leeds to re-marry ? the eldest would have been 35 ?....could you list the childrens names and we can see if any are in Garston in the 1911 census ?....allan ADDED...ISABEL TENCH B sep qtr 1892 looks like a Garston birth...is she in your tree Pat ?
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Here we are, Allan :)
1891 census:
William Reveley born Winlaton 1848
Margaret (nee KELLET) born Sherburn Hill 1850, his wife
Children:
William born Hetton le Hole 1871 (brass and iron founder)
Elizabeth Ann born Stockton on Tees 1874 (dressmaker's apprentice)
Kate born North Ormesby 1875 (milliner's apprentice)
John Anthony born North Ormesby 1877 (scholar)
Richard born Mansfield 1878
George Thomas Kellet born Mansfield 1880
James Renwick born Mansfield 1882
Alfred Firth born Ipswich 1884
Henry Byng born Ipswich 1886
About 1908 Kate, Richard and James left for Canada; George and Alfred to South Africa-George ended up in Australia and died in WW1; Elizabeth is supposed to have married the town clerk of Winchester (no name)
Pat
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Hiya Pat...it would seem that Henry Byng Tench stayed around the North West ...he married in Prestwich ,Manchester in 1906
He married Violet Binns ...they had a son in Portsmouth in 1913 ...probably had children from 1906 to 1911 as well....Mothers Maiden name appears from sep qtr 1911 on freebmd....allan
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why did he go to Ipswich
Why does anyone go to Ipswich...? ;) (I can say that, I lived there for several years myself! :-\).
The only 'bridge' I can think of in the area contemporary with the period is the viaduct that runs over Spring Road.
( don't know exactly when it was built but according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felixstowe_Branch_Line
The original line ran from Westerfield railway station over Spring Road viaduct (the lines most impressive civil engineering structure) into Derby Road railway station (Ipswich) station. Heading south east from Ipswich it then called at Orwell railway station built primarily to serve the home of the lines builder Colonel George Tomline and then Trimley railway station (which only opened in 1891).
So it was within the timeframe.
http://www.milepost91.co.uk/47370-leaves-ipswich/
(Scroll down to where it says 8Z47 rumbles across Spring Road Viaduct in Ipswich, between Westerfield and Derby Road.)
It might be worthwile contacting a local history group (or railway enthusiast group!) to see if they know who built it).
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Addendum,
Just remembered something I'd tried so hard to put out my mind :-\- Ipswich transport museum which houses a lot of information re local transport engineering companies, such as Ransomes (the most well known one ).
http://www.ipswichtransportmuseum.co.uk/eng.htm
They have contacts to engineering historians who may be able to help.
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Thanks again, Allan :) Found the marriage and the son but not on free bmd - was I doing something wrong?
Pat :)
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Some really good advice. Thanks, Ann - I think you like Ipswich really!!
Pat
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Thanks for all your help, Allan. It looks now as if William Reveley TENCH senior lived in a number of places and was only in Garston for the lengthof time it took to complete his engineering contract. He may well have been employed by Joseph RAWLINSON and Sons Ltd, who were widening the railway stations from Edge Hill to Speke in the 1890s. Yes, Isabel is the youngest child born in 1892 in Garston
In 1881, when he and the family were in Ipswich (with the help of Ann), he may well have been involved in the construction of a viaduct there. I've contacted a railway enthusiast to gain more information, hopefully.
Living in Newcastle upon Tyne, in 1901, and describing himself as a pier erector, I think he could have been working for PJ Messant's engineering firm either finishing off the original North Pier at Tynemouth or reconstructing it when it was damaged badly by a storm in 1897. It took 14 years to complete.
I've lots more to do now and I could be barking up the wrong tree but...onward and upward
Regards
Pat
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hello I have just logged on searching family history for my son however I seen your post my mums great great grandpar was called William reveley tench the story is he was asked by the indian government to lay railways so he was posted to india to lay tramlines and he was killed or died he was an engineer aged 60 when he passed he erected blackpool tower he built the first tramlines in Doncaster and Yorkshire with over head electric lines and in Lancaster he errected the railway station one of his sons was called elf? he emigrated to affrica he carved a pulpit that was put in Coventry cathedral another son I believe was called George tench he was in austrailia in the first world war and was killed on the last day by a sniper does any of this sound like your story to you my great granddad my mums granddad was born or lived in northumberlandhe was in school with Stanley laurel the actor when he was married they lived all over York Yorkshire Manchester London ect kind regards
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just reading through some of these posts and my great nan was called isobel tench she was around 85 when she died and she died in 1977 she married Charlie swain he died in 1981
cheers
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My mums grandad Charlie swain the one I previously mentioned he went to school with Stanley laurrel Charlie married Isobel tench she was born in the same year as stated in your info she was born in garston hope someone reads this
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on her birth registration on freebmd and Lancashirebmd she is
Isabel Tench ....sept qtr 1892 - Wavertree ,Liverpool ...Garston came under Wavertree ..you say she was around 85 when she died - if she died after september 1977 she was 85 ...
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I wonder if its Connected to the previous post so interesting
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there was only one Isabel Tench born in Garston - so both posts ARE connected family wise - you are connected somewhere along the line - time for you both to research ... ;)
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I'm afraid it's two years since I looked at Lancashire. I thought I had drawn a blank and moved to another part of the family. However, having now read your posts, carswhitehead, I can safely say that we are related. My great grandfather's brother was William Reveley Tench born in Winlaton, Co. Durham.
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I'm afraid it's two years since I looked at Lancashire. I thought I had drawn a blank and moved to another part of the family. However, having now read your posts, carswhitehead, I can safely say that we are related. My great grandfather's brother was William Reveley Tench born in Winlaton, Co. Durham.
thats nice - good to see a family connection - and good old Garston blood ....lol
:)
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Thanks Garstonite. You helped me a lot. I hope carswhitehead sees these posts.
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Thanks for message back I was surprised to see it pop upon my e mails good luck with your search for more information I find it all very interesting cheers
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Thank you for the acknowledgement of my post.
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I have read most of the posts and thought i would send you what i have
William was my Great grandfather he was born 1848 died 30th may 1908 in india, he was married to Margaret Kellet 1850 - 1925 they married in 1871 in Sunderland they had 9 children they lived in Garston (Island Road) in 1891 the youngest of the children Isabel is my grandmother she died in 1977. He was a an erecting engineer and peir constructor in 1901, he and his son John where involved in building railways in India. He married Mary Bell (nee wilkinson) in 1902 in Doncaster, tho it was not legal. He was works manager of Messrs F Morton & co Liverpool 1891 - 85.
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My mums Nan was Isobel trench she was married to Charlie swain they had three children Tony swain Denis swain Ann swain my mums dad was denis swain making Isobel trench her gran how are you connected to the family ? Cheers
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your mum is my cousin, I'm Sue, :) Ann is my mum :)
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I was wondering who Mr tibbs was and how hes connected from the original posts i thought it was you auntie Susan xx
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Dont know how Mr Tibbs is connected to the Tench's. I have found some more info on the Tench side. Jack is going to visit the battlefields next year to see if he can find the graves/memorials of George and Richard Tench and John Groom on my dad's side.
Hope the family is all well.
Sue
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Sorry, Sue, I've somehow missed these last posts, and carswhitehead-I thought when you wrote "Cheers" that you didn't want to continue the dialogue.
Sue-we've been in touch before, a few years ago, and I sent you some photographs of the TENCHes at the time but the communication came to a halt.
One of William Revely Tench's brothers was Anthony TENCH: my great grandfather.
I was very interested and would love to know more about William's career as an engineer. In 1901 when he and most of his family are living in Rye Hill, Newcastle upon Tyne, he describes himself as a pier erector and I wondered if at that point in his career, he had anything to do with the rebuilding of the pier at Tynemouth in Northumberland.
William and Anthony seem to have kept close ties-Anthony is staying with William and Margaret in 1901 and Margaret is visiting Anthony and his wife Mary Ann in 1901. When William was planning to go to India, he sold a house at Alston, Cumbria to Anthony.
Keep in touch.
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I have been doing a bit of research into what I had already found. His Son John A Tench 1877 - ? was trained by him and worked for him too.
William worked for messers F Morton and Co Ltd, Liverpool from approx 1890 - 1895 (maybe earlier as he was a clerk in 1881, possibly for same company)
He had his own company W R Tench and Co, Engineers and Contractors, Manchester from apporx 1895 - 1908 when he died.
I could not find any evidence of him working on the rebuild of the pier at Tynmouth. Possibly, he constructed the crane used in the rebuild.
His family life is not as pure and one would think, when my grandmother Isabel was small she was told her mother had died and was brought up by Mary Bell nee Wilkinson, but as we know Isabel's mother Margaret was living with your Gr Grandfather in 1901. William was having an affair with Mary Bell, and their marraige in 1902 was bigamous, as she was still married to her husband John Bell and of course William was still married to Margaret. Marg married again after William had died in 1908.
I didnt know about the house he sold to Anthony in Alston.
Sue
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I have read most of the posts and thought i would send you what i have
William was my Great grandfather he was born 1848 died 30th may 1908 in india, he was married to Margaret Kellet 1850 - 1925 they married in 1871 in Sunderland they had 9 children they lived in Garston (Island Road) in 1891 the youngest of the children Isabel is my grandmother she died in 1977. He was a an erecting engineer and peir constructor in 1901, he and his son John where involved in building railways in India. He married Mary Bell (nee wilkinson) in 1902 in Doncaster, tho it was not legal. He was works manager of Messrs F Morton & co Liverpool 1891 - 85.
you might both find this of interest - from Garston Historical Society
In 1880 Messrs. Francis Morton and Company Ltd. established the Hamilton Iron Works on the river side site continuing upstream from the shipyard. This site had previously been developed with some style by a Colonel Hamilton from Windsor (Berkshire) who built non-collapsible lifeboats of pressed sheet metal using special hydraulic equipment. Some remains of the Colonel's sea wall and dock still extant are testimony to a high quality of stonework reminiscent of Jesse Hartley. Francis Mortons became a very large concern exporting pre-fabricated iron and corrugated buildings all over the world - buildings which included barracks, stations, schools, warehouses, sports pavilions, churches and barns. Mortons also built bridges, piers, tanks, barges, jetties and pontoons. They provided the heavy iron work for Clarence Dock Power Station, Stanley Abattoir, Brunswick Dock Grain Silo, No.1 Hanger at Speke Airport, Everton Football Ground stands and last but by no means least, the Liverpool Overhead Railway (LOR). The last remains of the LOR iron work can still be seen (though recently truncated) bearing the Morton name plate in the new hotel wall of the converted Wapping Warehouses. Girders weighting 88 tons for the Speke Road road-over-rail bridge were the largest ever produced at the time.
:)
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In 1880 Messrs. Francis Morton and Company Ltd. established the Hamilton Iron Works on the river side site continuing upstream from the shipyard. This site had previously been developed with some style by a Colonel Hamilton from Windsor (Berkshire) who built non-collapsible lifeboats of pressed sheet metal using special hydraulic equipment. Some remains of the Colonel's sea wall and dock still extant are testimony to a high quality of stonework reminiscent of Jesse Hartley. Francis Mortons became a very large concern exporting pre-fabricated iron and corrugated buildings all over the world - buildings which included barracks, stations, schools, warehouses, sports pavilions, churches and barns. Mortons also built bridges, piers, tanks, barges, jetties and pontoons. They provided the heavy iron work for Clarence Dock Power Station, Stanley Abattoir, Brunswick Dock Grain Silo, No.1 Hanger at Speke Airport, Everton Football Ground stands and last but by no means least, the Liverpool Overhead Railway (LOR). The last remains of the LOR iron work can still be seen (though recently truncated) bearing the Morton name plate in the new hotel wall of the converted Wapping Warehouses. Girders weighting 88 tons for the Speke Road road-over-rail bridge were the largest ever produced at the time.
Many thanks, Garstonite. You have been so helpful over the years.
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It good to hear from you again, Sue. Your information is great. I think William must have advised and trained my great grandfather too: initially a haulage contractor, he added housebuilding to his skills.
It is seems cruel that Isabel was told such an untruth. Maybe Margaret was seriously ill and unable to cope. I thought that Margaret had died 1901-1902 but I can find no evidence. Who did she marry?
I have found reference to William in the Freemason records-a lot of the TENCHes appear too have been freemasons.
The house in Alston was called Hillside; my cousin tells me that it was an hotel.
Pat
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Pat
I think Margaret moved out because of Williams adultery, I found a marraige to a Thomas Liddle, and her death at 1925, I have not substanciated it properly but i believe its her.
My mum tells me that Mary Bell, had told mum's mum that her previous huband John Bell was not a nice man and used to beat her. I think its one of those family events that we will probably never know the full story.
I tried looking for grave in Delhi for William today, no luck unfortunately.
Sue
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Good morning Sue
The Margaret who married Thomas LIDDLE is another branch of the family: Margaret E.TENCH from the family of George TENCH another generation back. George (a blacksmith) and his family left Winlaton to find work in Sunderland in the shipyards.
I wondered if Margaret had travelled to India with William and died there, which would explain the lack of a death in this country. I'm stumped really. Plus, I don't know where to look for William's grave?
I noticed in a post to carswhitehead that you mentioned "Jack" would look for the graves of Thomas and Richard in France. Were you referring to Richard William, son of William Reveley TENCH?
Can you tell me more about William's work and is there a way that I can help you.
Pat
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Pat
Thanks for the info about Margaret, i was wondering if it was correct. I am not sure she travelled with William, however it did start me thinking that she went abroad with one of her son's. Possibly John A Tench who lived in India for a while building railways, or even James R Tench who went to Oregon and became a naturalized American, building bridges there.
I found a web site that shows some info on F. morton and co. http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Francis_Morton_and_Co I have looked a little through it but its quite extensive.
Jack, my youngest son is taking a trip to Belgium/France with school next year, to visit the battlefields and cemetaries. He is going to look for William Revelly Tench's sons Richard Tench, who is remembered at Thiepval Memorial, and if possible George Thomas Kellet Tench who served with the Australian Infantry who is remembered at Bellicourt British Cemetery. Also my gr uncle from my father's side of the family John Groome who is remembered at Tyne Cot. And if i can find any more I will send him with the details :)
I'll keep looking with regard to Williams career and if i find anything new I will let you know
Speak soon
Sue
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Hello Sue
Thank you for the Francis Morton info. It looks like I'll be taking a trip to the Maritime Museum in Liverpool, more searching too in India and Canada. A while ago, I found James Renwick TENCH in Canada on census records-Sue when he first arrived, he stayed with his brother Richard William, who was already there, having emigrated 1906-1907. Richard became a naturalised citizen in 1918-a civil engineer. He married an Ada WATSON from here in the northeast and had three sons, died in 1968, in Vancouver.
The Richard that you have found was the son of William R's brother, James. Richard died 1915 commemorated Thriepval; also Richard's younger brother, Thomas died 1917 Ypres.
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Pat
I have re adjusted my Richard's :). I have quite a bit of detail of James Renwick Tench, he became a naturalised American 1925 and settled in Oregon. After living in Canada before that, as you know.
If there things you dont have let me know i may have them.
I think i have found the house that William R and my nan Isobel lived in, in Garston. looks like it stil exists, I am going to make a trip up to see if i can find it :)
Sue
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Hello Sue
That's a great idea. Will you take some photographs?
Interestingly, the Multonah (not sure of the spelling) part of Oregon where James Renwick TENCH lived is the same place that William Reveley TENCH's brother, John and his wife, Amanda lived. I wonder if that was done purposely.
Another thing that I have noticed is that most of the diverging ways of William's sons and daughters seem to happen around 1906-1908.
Do you know anything about Alfred Firth TENCH or Margaret TENCH?
Pat
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Pat
I have seen a property that it could be on google earth, in Garston, but i would like to see it for myself, i will take pics.
The family does seem to have dispersed around about the same time.
The only info i know about Alfred is that he was a Butcher early on.
I found this
Name Mr A F Tinch
Birth Date abt 1887
Age 21
Port of Departure Delagoa Bay, Mozambique
Arrival Date 23 Jul 1908
Port of Arrival Southampton, England
Ports of Voyage Cape Town
Ship Name Dunluce Castle
Shipping Line Union-Castle Mail Steamship Company Ltd
Official Number 118490
but then later
Name A Tench
Estimated Birth Year abt 1889
Age 32
Port of Departure Brisbane
Port of Arrival Sydney, New South Wales
Voyage Arrival Date 18 Aug 1921
Vessel Name Bardic
Origin Location Capetown Africa
on the list it shows him as a fireman, if it is him of course, The birth dates are different so they could both be wrong, i am more confident with the first one.
Do you mean William Revelly Tench's Margaret?
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Thank you, Sue.
That gives me something to go on. I hadn't found anything at all. I wasn't clear about which Margare. It was William's daughter, Margaret; that's what I should have said. I've found Elizabeth's marriage and Kate's emigration but no sign of Margaret.
Good luck with the house.
Pat
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Hi Pat
I posted a request for help finding William R Tench's grave on Roots, I have had a reply, stating that he died of sunstoke, and they have given me a reference and advised that i looked at the national archives Afria and Asia section. I have emailed nationa archives to see if they can help. I will let you know if they are able to help/what they find.
Sue