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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Renfrewshire => Topic started by: Poozan on Friday 06 August 10 15:10 BST (UK)
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Born about 1795, he was listed as a ship master in the 1851 census. Alas I know no more about him, can anyone help?
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Hi,
I can see John Anderson in the 1851 census at 30 Pollock Street. It looks like a late or second marriage. Have you tried looking for his wife & children in later censuses?
Scotlands People have 4 Renfrewshire deaths for John Anderson, born 1795 +or - 5 years, and 1 death + or - 1 year. If you're lucky with any of these you should at least find out the surname of his wife Janet, if he had a previous marriage and also his parent's names & his father's occupation.
If you're really stuck, it may be worth the investment.
brigau
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Thank you for your help. Alas, I know he died in Singapore so can't look him up on Scotland's People. I would dearly love to know who his parents were and when he got married to Janet but I can't find any of that. Have you any ideas where I might look? His wife was Janet Halley by the way.
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Hi Poozan
When did he die? Do you know the name of his ship?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi Poozan
He married Janet HALLEY on 19 March 1848 in the Gorbals, Lanarkshire.
This extracted entry is on the IGI (along with 2 submitted entries one of which has the wrong year).
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true
The Marriage is also on the OPR section of marriages on Scotlands People - it actually seems to be indexed twice there (which may be because Banns were called in 2 different churches)
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/
While one shouldn't expect a lot of an OPR - ie: it's unlikely to tell you anything about his parentage and age - you will never know until you obtain the record, sometimes there is extra, unexpected information on them.
It may at least tell you if he was a widower or a bachelor. If he was a bachelor then the 2nd daughter in the 1851, Margaret, may be named after his mother.
Cheers
AMBLY
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I have downloaded the marriage entry from Scotlands People but there is no more information alas. Thanks for your help.
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Hi,
Don't know if it's any use but the closest match from freecen in the 1841 census for Janet Halley:
Piece: SCT1841/644
Glasgow -Lanarkshire Enumeration District: 11
St James Ecclesiastical Parish
Folio: 258 Page: 15
Address: 169 Great Hamilton Street
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
HALLEY Thomas M 60 Wynder Outside Census County (1841)
HALLEY Margt F 50 Unknown
HALLEY Janet F 25 Unknown
HALLEY Macbeth M 15 Unknown
It doesn't tell you much, but Janet's mother's name, Margaret is interesting.
brigau
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Hi Poozan
have you checked out the births on IGI for John and Janet
there are three children born to this couple in Perth
Catherine.....Sept 1821
Thomas .......Feb 1824
Robert .........August 1826
according to IGI John and Janet could have been married twice
once in 1820 in Perth and second in Gorbals Lanarkshire 1848
possible that they may have divorced then got back together
although it is possible that they were different couples but worth looking at
Elaine
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Poozan
the above family can be found on
http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
1841 census
Anderson.......Janet........50.......Perth
Anderson.......Margaret..25........."
Anderson.......Catherine.20........."
Anderson.......Thomas....18.........".........Road Labourer
no sign of John on the census with them though
Elaine
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Hi Elaine,
If you look at the 1851 Renfrew census that Poozan first referred to, it shows:
John Anderson, Head born 1795 Renfrew
Janet Anderson, Wife born 1816 Glasgow
Therence Anderson, Daughter, born 1849, Glasgow (an odd one!)
Margaret Anderson, Daughter, born 1850 Glasgow
Louise McIntyre. Servant, born 1821 Glasgow
It's definitely a different Janet as in the one in the Perth census for 1841 (born 1791)
best wishes,
brigau
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Therence Anderson should be Florence.
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All this information is very puzzling. I don't think the Perth family has anything to do with the line I am researching but I have already downloaded a 1815 birth record for a Janet Halley, which fits with the age on the 1851 census and her death. (Alas she died in England so the certificate doesn't give her parents). This states that her parents were Thomas Halley, grocer, and Janet Mackison not Thomas Halley, wynder, and Margaret someone as on the 1841 census. I am now totally confused as to which Janet Halley is the one I am looking for!!! She called her second daughter Margaret so perhaps the 1841 census is the one I am looking for? Help please!
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It may not be of interest but on Scotlands People there is a will for a Thomas Halley, residing at 169 Great Hamilton Street, Glasgow date of 24/12/1847.
They are quite expensive to buy and sometimes tell you a great deal and other times nothing, but it may be worth looking at if you think it is the right family.
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Dear Murphyz
Thanks for the suggestion. If I do spend the money at least I will know which Thomas Halley is my Janet's father, or so I hope!
Poozan
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Hi all
I think the following is Thomas HALLEY's widow in 1851, and son in 1861:
1851: 35 Robertson Street, Glasgow St George, Lanarkshire
Parish 644/1, ED 38, pg 24, HS 75
Head: Margaret HALLEY 61, Landowner, b Kilmadock, Perthshire
Son: Patrick M HALLEY 24, Bankers Clerk & Steamboat Proprietor, b Glasgow
Servant: Mary Ann GALLOWAY 28, House Servant, b Glasgow
Marriage: IGI Exctracted
Patrick MacBeth HALLEY and Catherine McCLERIE
Married about 9 Nov 1852, Glasgow
1861: 8 Lawrence Place, Govan, Partick, Glasgow , Lanarkshire
Parish 646/2, ED 10, HS 298 (half)
Head: Patrick McB HALLEY 34, Bankers Clerk, b Glasgow
Wife: Catherine HALLEY 29, b Greenock, Renfrew
Brother-in-Law: William McSERIE?? 30, Writer, b Paisley, Renfrew
Servant: Marion McLENNAN 25, b North West Hebrides
The other half of the house appears to be a family named REID.
The fact Patrick HALLEY is a steamboat proprietor is interesting.
Captain John ANDERSON, sailed a paddle-steamer "SHANDON" from Glasgow to Melbourne Australia in 1853.
He remained in Australia until abt 1859, operating a packet/passenger Service in and around Melbourne waters. He left in abt 1859 and headed to Singapore. (This is 'our' John ANDERSON).
Cheers
AMBLY
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Background (I hope you don't mind Poozan) the middle names might help somewhere along the line. Although you have all this info, it might help us 'build a picture' and figure out some clues ;D
"Margaret Maxwell ANDERSON" Your gt-grandmother
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,447448.15.html
Her siblings known were:
Florence Guild ANDERSON b abt 1849 Glasgow, m singapore 1871, (added, see reply #19)
John ANDERSON b 1852 Rothesay, Bute, died 1924 England, Knighted in 1912
Marion Fullerton ANDERSON b 1854 Rothesay, died 1933 England
Singapore newspaper
http://shrinkalink.com/36281
Margaret Maxwell ANDERSON married November 9th 1875 in Singapore, to Thomas CUTHBERTSON.
She was stated a the "third surviving daughter of the late John ANDERSON"
http://shrinkalink.com/36282
In 1901, the Cuthbertson brothers attended a wedding in London, Eng;and in 1901, of John ANDERSON age 48 (b abt 1853), recent M.L.C at Singapore.
John married Winifred Ethel Dunbar Pope on 16th January 1901
London Marriage Record
John' age 48 was a widower & his father was stated as John ANDERSON, Master mariner and civil servant (deceased)
His first wife was dau of Admiral BUSH of Siam, she died in 1894 I think (Singapore Newspapers clipping)
Singapore Newespaper - Obit for Marion
http://shrinkalink.com/36283
Thomas' brother JOHN CUTHERBERTSON married a Marion Fullerton ANDERSON.
When John CUTHBERTSON's widow died age 80 in 1933 (b abt 1853) her obit states:
Her father Captain ANDERSON lived in Singapore where his wife had a small school, known as the Raffles Girls School. Of their (Captain john Anderson & his wife's) children:
2 daughters married the CUTHBERTSON brothers, John & Thomas.
1 son John later Sir John ANDERSON ...commenced his Straits career in Govt Service, then Partner & Head of Gurhrie & Co.
http://shrinkalink.com/36284
ANDERSON, Sir John, Knt.— Cr. 1912.
Son of John Anderson, Esq., of Rothesay, Buteshire
b. 1852 ; m. 1901 Winifred Ethel Dunbar-Pope, dau. 1
of John Billing Pope, Esq. Sir John Anderson was an
Unofficial M.L.C. Straits Settlements 188G-8 and
1905-9 and is a Member of the firm of Guthrie & Co.
Ltd., East India Merchants, of Singapore and London,
and Consul-Gen. for Siam in London ; appointed 2nd
Secretary to the Ministry of Health \9l9.—Eastcote
Place, near Pinner, Middlesex ; Bath Club, w. ; City
Carlton Club, e.c. ; 5, Whiitington Avenue, E.c.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/08dd/
Article including information on Captain John ANDERSOn & his son John Jnr. and including the mention that Captain J sailed the SHANDON to Melbourne when he was 60 ish
Also, John Jnr - Sir John ANDERSON 1852-1924 - has an entry in the Oxford Dictionary of national Biography - which says:
He was a merchant, born at Rothesay, Scotland, in March 1852........"Eldest of two sons and three daughters of John Anderson (1793–1875), sea captain, and his second wife, Janet Halley, schoolteacher and a daughter of a Glasgow shopkeeper. In 1855 Captain Anderson sailed his small paddle-steamer from Scotland to Australia......His family joined him in 1856 and settled at Geelong before moving on to Singapore about 1859. Here Captain Anderson was eventually assistant harbour-master, and his son attended Raffles Institution until he was sixteen"
I'm pretty sure I saw John Jnr stated as the ONLY son of John Snr in another of those links.
(Our Sir John not to be confused with another Sir John ANDERSON , who was a Governer of Straits, Singapore (b 1858-d 1918) & son of John ANDERSOn of Gartly Aberdeen)
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5679080?searchTerm=
Shandon arrives in Melbourne - there are voluminous hits for John sNR and the "Shandon" in the Ausie Newspapers.
http://www.wikiwak.com/texis/wcolz/viewcache.html?q=hms+bulwark+1859&h=375d41ec2f901f1e01d6d1aabd2b4dc7
Shandon. Wooden paddle steamer, 186 tons. Built at Glasgow, 1853. Left Scotland on 6 December 1853 and arrived in Me!bourne on 24 April 1854 after a voyage of 140 days under sail. Later sold to. oveseas interests.
Death Notice in Aussie Papers for Captain John Snr.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/11520872?searchTerm=ANDERSON SHANDON
Janet ANDERSON, widow of Captain John, died in 1891 in Hampstead, age 76 (after the Census)
She appears on the 1891 Census in Hampstead age 75, b Scotland in household of her son-in-law Thomas CUTHBERTSON (who is a widower - he was later to remarry).
Cheers
AMBLY
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So I was thinking.....
If Patrick MacBeth HALLEY died in Scotland and if that cert said his parents were father: Thomas, a Grocer (or a Merchant) and mother: Margaret (maybe ms MAXWELL) it might just seal the deal for identifying Janet HALLEY ANDERSON's parents.
But I can't find him after 1861 (though it seems he's dead before 1881) not can I find his wife in 1871 ??? ???
In 1861 just after the census, he and his wife Catherine McCLERIE, had a son:
James George HALLEY b 24 Jul Anderston, Glasgow (IGI Extracted)
In 1881 and 1891, his widow Catherine HALLEY is in London England:
In 1881 Kensington - Catherine HALLEY age 52, b Scotland. She is a widow and a School Principal. No children.
She has her brother William McCLERIE 49, an Accountant, & his wife in house.
RG11 / Piece: 36 / Folio: 113 / Page: 8
In 1891 Brixton, Lambeth - age 58, Catherine HALLEY widow, b Greenock, Renfrew (bit of a fib or mistake with age)
She is visiting Marmaduke C OSBORN 63, widower, a Weslyan Minister. b Yorkshire.
RG12 / Piece: 411 / Folio 97 / Page 23
Could the HALLEY family - your Janet's - have originally been non-conformist (Weslyan?) which is why pre-1855 there appear to be no records for them on the OPR's? It bothers me somewhat that Captain John and Janet had those two daughters with "Maxwell" & "Fullerton" as middle names, yet we're not finding a connection.
Although MACKIESON > MAXWELL could be a name similarity they adopted, it doesn't feel right to me, somehow. That Janet & John named their 2nd daughter "Margaret" adds a little to the theory Janet's mother was a Margaret (though if Captn John was previously married & had children, it may well mean the naming-pattern tool is not going to help)
I wasn't able to find anything to confirm Margaret Maxwell CUTHBERTSON nee ANDERSON was in fact born abt 1850/1851? And wondered if she was?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Yes (sorry for hogging folks, but I'm on a roll !)
Thomas HALLEY of 169 Great Hamilton Street....of the 1841 Census
Margaret was his second wife.
I think his first wife died before 1824 and he remarried that year to: Margaret MAXWELL (IGI, extracted marriage in Glasgow),
By his first wife he had issue: James 1814. James had siblings Janet and a much younger brother, Patrick
James HALLEY was a student of Theology (died 1841) and he has a memoir biography
Memoir of the late James Halley, A.B., student of theology
http://shrinkalink.com/36287
In it :
James was the eldest child, born 17 Jan 1814
Sent to an English elementary school at the age of 6 for abt a year et&
Entered Glasgow University in 1826 while he was not yet 13 years of age.
His sister Janet accompanied him on a trip to Madiera in 1837.
He died (16 March 1841) age 28, Janet was with him.
Mentions are made of "Great Hamilton Street" and of Janet in a context to suggest she was not married pre-1841.
His mother died when he was about 10 (I think maybe a little bit before that?)
But he referred and wrote affectionately to his stepmother, as "Mother'.
http://shrinkalink.com/36288
He died of Consumption in Glasgow.
He seems to have been exceptionally fond of and close to his sister Janet. There is a 'photo' (an engraving ) of him in the book.
I read snippets of a review of this memoir, where it said no where does it mention the actuall name of his mother.
Not did I spot a mention of his stepmother's name. Also that "The father seems to have been born in Jul 1777. His name was Thomas HALLEY and he is recorded in the "List of Glasgow Electors 1832" as residing in Great Hamilton Street, Glasgow. His occupation was Coal Weigher".
It would appear James & Janet were issue of the first wife of Thomas HALLEY and Patrick of the second, Margaret?
But it looks promising to me - that your Janet and John named their daughter Margaret Maxwell ANDERSON after Janet's stepmother?
On scanning thru, I thought there was a suggestion the HALLEY family may have been Associate Congregation?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Crumbs, I am absolutely gobsmacked and will have to write all this down and digest it at my leisure, not being as young as I used to be! Margaret Maxwell Anderson is my direct ancestor, she was 8 months old in the 1851 census so must have been born in 1850. She was the 2nd daughter, not the third. You have given me lots of information that I didn't know. I am very grateful indeed that you passed on your knowledge to me. Thanks and thanks again!
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Hi Poozan
You're welcome, I'm happy some of that was new to you, and wish I could have found something more for John ANDERSON himself - but I say, you've done an awful lot of digging and finding yourself, a wonderful job and testemonial to your family ;D
I did see your website
http://www.wauchopecottage.co.uk/susan/cuthbertsons.html
but having just delved a bit more into it, I found the bit about Florence (and another middle name to muse over :)
Straits Times Overland Journal 1 Feb 1871
Married At the Presbyterian Church, on the 17th inst by the Revd. M J Copland, Mr Alexander Johnston to Florence Guild, eldest daughter of John and Janet Anderson.(Grandmama's maternal aunt)
So there is no doubt at all that 1851 Census is 100% correct (I think perhaps we readers of the topic weren't initially sure if you meant you were certain it was the right family or just a possible match). Which was why I was wondering if there was other evidence that your Margaret Maxwell ANDERSON was definitely born around 1850. Moot now, but I've found it.....
Janet and the children going to join John in Australia!
They arrived in Victoria, South Australia in August 1857 on board the "Brunelle"
Mrs Janet ANDERSON 40
Florence ANDERSON 9
Margaret ANDERSON 7
John ANDERSON 5
Marion ANDERSON 3
Found on the Index here (no images though):
http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/indexes/index_search.asp?searchid=23
Cheers
AMBLY
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Dear Ambly
Thank you for the information about the Anderson family and their voyage to Australia. I am back at my computer now and starting to add all that I have found out, thanks to you and others, to the family website. We are very short of relations on this side of the family, though I don't know what happened to the family of Florence, so don't expect anyone out there to be interested.
Poozan
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Hi Poozan
Wonder if this is something....This is the only Florence GUILD popping up in IGI
BIRTH IGI Extracted :
Florence GUILD chr 10 Jul 1738, Kilmadock, Perthshire, parents: David GUILD and Janet ANDERSON
MARRIAGE IGI Extracted:
Florence GUILD and Henry ANDERSON 12 Jun 1772, Lecropt, Perth, Scotland
ISSUE: Lecropt, Perth, Scotland - to Henry ANDERSON and Florence GUILD
Henry 1779
Margaret 1780
Ann 1783
And then I remembered I saw "Henry Anderson" written in the HALLEY memoir which didn't take in fully - on pages 258 to 270
In 1839 from Madeira, James HALLEY wrote a long epistle to a relative in Glasgow who was about to commece a study of Theology with a view to the Ministry. He opened with "My Dear Henry" and signed it " I commend you, your father, your mother, your sisters, your uncle, and your aunts; and am Your Affectionate Cousin" which is then notated with the full name of his said couisn "Mr Henry Anderson"
Could it be that Captain John ANDERSON was blood related, a cousin to his wife Janet HALLEY?
Or simply a coincidence she had Perth ANDERSON relatives & married an unrelated Renfrew ANDERSON
Hmmm!
AMBLY :)
PS: I noticed you have a William LATTA in the tree, who married Janet Halley CUTHBERTSON in 1901. I've 'one-name studied' the LATTO & LATTA families of Scotland for years (I have a Fife LATTO connection). Do you know anything about William - I think he was b 1869 Old Cumnock Ayr, the son of William LATTA and Margaret ALLAN in Ayr, and brother of Sir John LATTA & Sir Andrew Gibson LATTA.
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Dear Ambly
I am sorry but my head is still reeling from all this information. I have seen that Thomas Halley, Janet's father, is variously described as a coal weigher (a municipal officer), a wynder and also as a shopkeeper/grocer. Would you be able to make sense of this for me. I know it's a cheek to ask! I don't want to post anything onto my website until I am sure that it is correct! I have downloaded the memoir of James Halley to read at my leisure, thank you for the link.
Poozan
Poozan
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Hi Poozan
Ask away - that's RC ;D He sounds to be a man of all jobs doesn't he? Also described as a Guard of Glasgow and a Stagcoach to Perth, in the James HALLEY too, I think.
I'm not sure I can really answer the question though - I would guess he was someone fairly noted in the fishbowl he swam in, a bit of an entrepeneur about town with connections to the municpal goings on, owner of a merchant business/ general store - which as I understand it, often also ran the mail stagecoaches . It's the Wynder bit that don't sit right with me, unless he also owned a mill or something? Maybe a new linked post here on Rootschat to grab the attention of others who might know better :'(
On the other hand, and at the risk of overdoing it ::) ;D - I'm 99.999% sure Thomas is your man. I've tracked down that Henry ANDERSON, the cousin of his son James HALLEY - and Henry had many unmarried sisters, including one named Florence Guild ANDERSON b 1813 Glasgow. Henry became the Minister of the Free Church in Partick and (likely) never married. Henry's parents were John ANDERSON (another one!) and Margaret KIDD.
If you have access to the Census, I can give you the lead-ins to find them. Otherwise I can post transcripts it here for you .
Cheers
AMBLY
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Poozan, you are in good hands with Ambly ;D
Ambly - awesome roll!
Monica
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Hi Monica ;D aw, thanks
And just the lady I was thinking of too - what do you think of all Thomas HALLEY's occupations, how they fit together for one chap?
I feel we're circling Captain John ANDERSON's ancestry - but just need to find than one clue. I'm wearing Google out today!
Cheers
AMBLY
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I think you are certainly close to confirmation. Thomas Halley's occupations would make him an entrepreneur in today's terms, with fingers in many pies!
Murphy mentioned earlier the entry for Thomas in 1847 on SP. This is indexed by 'I' which makes me think it might not be the descriptive will & testament of Thomas which is a pity as I would imagine the original will would make mention of sons and daughters.
Monica
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Hi Ambly
Monica helped me a lot when I was starting so it's nice that she appreciates all you have done! So - Thomas Halley, occupations various, married 1. Janet Mackison and had 2 children James and Janet and 2. Margaret Maxwell having a son Patrick. Is that correct please? My brain is bursting so I am going to stop for refreshment now!
Thanks a million
Poozan
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Hi Poozan
That is the way it's definitely looking, I agree;D
And there is another child on the IGI, Alexander HALLEY b & chr 1810 Barony, parents Thomas HALLEY and Janet MACKIESON (may have died young?) - another sibling?
Plus the marriage on IGI in 1808 Barony, of Thomas HALLEY & Janet MACHISON
The OPR you have, for the bp. of Janet HALLEY in 1815 said parents were Thomas HALLEY Grocer and Janet McKISON - and it's the Grocer bit which makes the link there. So sure looks like her baptism - but it would be nice to cinch it somehow :-\
ie: It would be nice to find a bp. of James HALLEY for around 17 Jan 1814 (he himself stated his birthday as 17th Jan in his memoirs) as that would be the cincher if his mms was MACKIESON.
I'm sure your Janet is the one on the 1841 with her father Thomas and his second wife Margaret , and I'm pretty sure Margaret's ms is MAXWELL - which is why I'd really want to find her son Patrick McBeth HALLEY dying after 1855 in Scotland (or Margaret herself) to confirm her maiden name.
Cheers
AMBLY
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Girls, look what I just found ;) (in between trying to get Sunday lunch ready...my poor family!)
Glasgow Herald Friday, March 31, 1848; Issue 4713:
Marriage: At 169 Great Hamilton Street, on the 28th instant, by Rev Henry Anderson of Partick Free Church, Captain John Anderson of the Lyra to Janet, only daughter of the late Thomas Halley.
Confirms all that you have found Ambly!
Monica
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Wahooo! ;D ;D ;D
Monica, you Champion!
Oh, I'm just going to post this now - because Revd. Henry is her supposedly cousin (stated by her brother James a decade before she married Captain John).
1841: Argyle St - Glasgow St Peter, Lanarkshire
John ANDERSON 60, Corn merchant, - N
Mrs ANDERSON 55 - N
F ANDERSON 25 - Y (female)
Jane ANDERSON 25 - Y
Margaret ANDERSON 25 - Y
Ann ANDERSON 20 - Y
Henry ANDERSON 20 - Y
Ann McKAY 20, F.S. - N
1851: 339 1/2 Argyle Street - Glasgow St George, Lanarkshire
Head: Margaret KIDD 68, Annuitant, b St Andrews Fifeshire
Dau: Florence ANDERSON 37, At Home, b Glasgow
Dau: Jean ANDERSON 36, At Home, b Glasgow
Dau: Margaret ANDERSON 35, At Home, b Glasgow
Dau: Ann ANDERSON 32, At Home, b Glasgow
Servant: Isabella McCALLAN 19, Domestic Servant, b????, Perthshire
1851: 2 Meadowbank Place - Landward District, Govan, Lanarkshire
Head: Henry ANDERSON 30, Minister Of Free Church At Patrick, b Glasgow
Visitor: Helen ANDERSON 32, b Glasgow
1861: 1 York Place - Glasgow St Peter, Lanarkshire
Head: Florence G ANDERSON 47, Dressmaker, b Glasgow
Sister: Margaret ANDERSON 45, Dressmaker, b Glasgow
Servant: Jeanie McKERROL
1861: Dumbarton Rd Rowbate - Govan, Partick, Lanarkshire
Head: Henry ANDERSON 40, Minister Of Partick Free Church, b Glasgow
Sister: Anne ANDERSON 42, b Glasgow
Servant: Janet LAING 23, Domestic Servant, b ????, Stirlingshire
1871: Rose Vale - Govan, Partick, Lanarkshire
Head: Henry ANDERSON 50, Minister of the Partick ?Parish?, b Glasgow
Sister: Anna ANDERSON 52, Ministers Sister, b Glasgow
Servant: Jane PATERSON 20, Domestic Servant, b Cambuslang, Lanarkshire
1881 & 1891 - pretty much the same - sister Florence G ANDERSOn is with him in those 2.
IGI: Births (extracted) parents: John ANDERSON & Margaret KID(D)
Florence Guild ANDERSON b. 30 Jun 1813
Jean ANDERSON b. 19 May 1814 Glasgow
Margaret ANDERSON b. 1 Jun 1815 Glasgow
Helen ANDERSON b. 16 Dec 1816 Glasgow
Ann ANDERSON b. 6 Aug 1818 Glasgow
and I think, Henry has been put in the IGI as:
Henry ANDERSON b 14 Sep 1820 Glasgow, parents: John ANDERSON & Margaret RIDDLE
IGI: Marriage (Extracted)
John ANDERSON and Margaret KIDD , 30 Jun 1812 Glasgow
WILLS Section Scotlands People:
John ANDERSON RESIDING AT YORK PLACE OF GLASGOW, SPOUSE OF MARGARET KIDD, Inventory dated 5 Jul 1852
Cheers
AMBLY
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It's stupid o'clock here, I'm so going to regret this in a few hours ;D 8)
Now I'm going to post this Monica - and leave it with you to sort out ;D Poor Poozan! Really just trying to identify Captain John for you !
Also in the James HALLEY memoir: it stated that the unwell James went and spent time in late July 1837 with his Kinsman Rev Mr ANDERSON in Tillicoultry (Clackmannansh).
This must have been before James HALLEY decided to repair to Madeira for his health. This Tillicoultry Reverend ANDERSON is named Henry - but is a different one to the Reverend Henry ANDERSON of Partick to who James wrote in 1839 (who was only a teenager in 1837).
Tillicoultry Henry is this one:
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/dollar/chapter10.htm
Rev Henry ANDERSON was ordained 1808 Tillcoultry
The Rev. Henry Anderson left the Established Church at the Disruption in 1843, and was the first minister in the Free Church here. He was born on the 9th of February 1779, and died on the 12th of August 1845, aged sixty-six years.
IGI: Henry ANDERSON born 9 Feb 1779, Lecropt, Perth to Henry ANDERSON & Florence GUILD. This is the kinsman of James HALLEY. And of so, of Janet HALLEY.
BIRTH IGI Extracted :
Florence GUILD chr 10 Jul 1738, Kilmadock, Perthshire, parents: David GUILD and Janet ANDERSON
MARRIAGE IGI Extracted:
Florence GUILD and Henry ANDERSON 12 Jun 1772, Lecropt, Perth, Scotland
ISSUE: Lecropt, Perth, Scotland - to Henry ANDERSON and Florence GUILD
Henry 1779
Margaret 1780
Ann 1783
In 1841 Partick Henry's sister Helen is not in the family household in Glasgow, though she is there in 1851. In 1841, she seems to be in the household of Tillicoultry Rvd. Henry.
So the puzzle is I think?
How precisely are these ANDERSON's related to the HALLEY's? Through whom?
And the question is, are they also related to Captain John ANDERSON?
Since John & Janet name their 1st daughter Florence Guild - does it indicate the name is more "relative" important to John, even if Janet is also 'relative' to that name?
Then they name the 2nd , Margaret Maxwell - who is more 'relative' important to Janet - her (step) mother.
And are these 2 names basically holding the Scottish naming pattern?
Is Captain John the son of a Florence GUILD? Which one? And born in Renfrew?
And who was Janet & John's daughter Marion Fullerton named after?
Night Night ;D
AMBLY
Still smiling that you found that marriage !!
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Dear Ambly and Monica
All this technology is confusing me but I have realised that Monica has found the marriage of John Anderson and Janet Halley though I have lost the thread of where that was written. Well done that girl, I say, what a day you two have had helping me. I may have a clearer head in the morning.
Thanks to both
Poozan
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Poozan, I am having a problem keeping up myself with our Ambly ;D
The marriage entry was in the Glasgow Herald (Friday, March 31, 1848; Issue 4713)
In your position, I would go into a quiet room with a big blank piece of paper or two and go through this massive amount of details and links that Ambly has put together. Take your time, there is so much interesting info here which is fantastic for you :)
The next big push will be, going back to original question, trying to confirm as much as possible, where John Anderson fits in within the family groups that Ambly has identified.
Monica
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That is exactly what I intend to do. What a lot I discovered yesterday. I have had to completely redo my Anderson Halley information. This was the family line I knew least about but it is right up there with the others now!
regards
Poozan
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Hi,
Have just returned to look at this thread after the weekend and am absolutely stunned, what a roll!! Such fantastic research by all those contributing, I am so impressed.
Well done everyone.
brigau
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This has been fantastic piece of research by Ambly hasn't it!
Just as a by the bye. We know that John Anderson was married previously before his marriage to Janet in 1848. This is the closest I can see for him in 1841 - assuming he was in dry land!:
John Anderson, 45, Merchant Seaman, b. Scotland
Elizabeth Anderson, 20, b. Lanarkshire
Jessie Anderson, 15, b. Ireland
Charlotte Kirkaldy, 15, servant
Address: Portland Street, Gorbals, Lanarkshire
Looking at FreeCen, neighbouring households give the impression that it was a fairly prosperous address given the occupations of neaby head of households (Independent, accountant etc.).
Monica
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Your suggestion certainly seems likely. He obviously liked younger women!
Poozan
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Likely the younger women in this case may be daughters given their ages ::) Couldn't get past this census entry to find out anything further about this household as yet.
It is only there as possible. Nothing definitive as yet.
Monica :)
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Hi all
Thanks for the kind comments - really down to the Google Finger- it has a life of it's own, I think! ;D ;D
Musing on the possible 1841 for John which Monica found in Gorbals
In 1851 Gorbals is:
Lodger: Janet ANDERSON b Ireland, age 22, Seamptress
(In household of Sarah Stockdale who has a son William age 25)
Also 1851 Gorbals in another household is:
Visitor: Peter WILSON 36, b Cardross Dumbartonshire, Merchant Grocer
MARRIAGE in Gorbals 13 April 1851 (just after the Census)
Peter WILSON & Janet Renwick ANDERSON
(There is a Janet R ANDERSON in Barony too, in 1851 - who may be Peter's soon to be wife. But ....I'm sort of hoping she's not).
BIRTH:
Janet Anderson WILSON
chr 27 Jun 1852 - Saint Enochs Free Church, Glasgow, Lanark,
Parents : Janet ANDERSON & Peter WILSON
In 1861, Peter WILSON is in Eastwood Renfrewshire, with his daughter Janet Anderson WILSON age 8 b Lanarkshire. But he has a new wife Christiana (TOWIE I think, m 1861) so his first wife Janet must have died? He also has servants and seems fairly well-off
I'm harking back to Margaret Maxwell ANDERSON being described as the 3rd surviving daughter of John.
Whilst this stmt could be in error, if taken as fact it indicates there were 2 living sisters older than her, and at least one who died. And although Margaret was only the 2nd daughter of John with wife Janet - he could have had other daughters with wife-nr-1.
Monica, I wondered if there could be a marriage announcement in the Glasgow Herald regarding the 1851 Marriage in Gorbals?
Cheers :)
AMBLY
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Ambly
I am working away on the Andersons but remember that you mentioned the name Latta sometime earlier. In 1901 William Latta aged 32 was staying with his brother in Hampstead (brother alas not at home on the day of the census). Later that year he married Janet Halley Cuthbertson who lived in the same street as his brother! As you say, there is a William Latta in the 1871 census living in Old Cumnock with a son William of the right age so perhaps they are the same man? William and Janet had a son Gordon but he had no children. Does that add to your knowledge?
Poozan
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Ambly, the Peter Wilson, a grocer, and Janet Renwick Anderson marriage does show in the Glasgow Herald on 25 April 1851. Confirms it is not the same Janet/Jessie from 1841. She is down as the daughter of the late Mr Wm Anderson of Townhead.
Back on the hunt we go ;)
Monica
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Good luck to both of you!
Poozan
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My dad's first wife was Jessie Anderson, from the Gorbals, Glasgow. It looks as though this is the same Anderson you have stumbled across at Portland Street, Gorbals.
Oops, just checked the date and not possible as she was born in the 1920's! However, strong possibility that it is the same Andersons.
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hello'
was wondering if anyone can help me '
my john anderson was a shipmaster in the 1800s '
he was married to catherine mclaren in 1816 .
i was trying to find out what ships he sailed and where he sailed to'
he came from tulliallan perth scotland'
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Just chasing an old family story to do with John Anderson, master mariner, (ie Captain) of a paddlesteamer sailed from Scotland to Australia in 1850s and Google has found this thread from 2 or 3 years ago. Not sure if it is possible to join these 2 threads together. I am researching the ship and the man and trying to produce an illustrated booklet of the lives of the adventurous pair.
I also started a thread on Roots Chat last month with a query; but put Captain John Anderson as the title. They are the same man. I have had some success in his family line which matches what the earlier thread deduced too - some good detectives at work back there. I am indirectly connected to his first family, with daughter Jessie. She married a William Boyd Macalister; and he would be a somewhat distant cousin of mine.
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Am nor sure if we are talking about the same John Anderson. May I direct you to my family history site for what I know about him -
http://www.wauchopecottage.co.uk/susan/Cuthbertson/Cuthbertson%20Direct%20Ancestors/johnandjanetanderson.html
I am descended from his second marriage with Janet Halley in 1848. We think that they may well have been cousins.
Good luck
Poozan
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Thank you for picking up this thread and for that information - I shall certainly go through those lines of your fascinating website carefully and check the details of my own sources. It was an enormous task that you did there to get all the family lines sorted so coherently. These five pages on Roots Chat of rolling-thoughts over time are most interesting.
I am confident that it is the same man, John Anderson, but not entirely sure of his ancestral history. I have his birth pinned down in Paisley in Oct 1793, to Petter/Peter Anderson and Janet Smith, (one day out from the date I had from a Macalister family story, written down by his grandson).
I am also trying to find if any sources of the records of the shipping companies he worked for (including Messrs G&J Burns, David Hutcheson in 1830-1850s).
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If you are sure of John Anderson's parents you will have answered a question that I paid a researcher in vain to find for me. Alas, a few months ago I put the information from the website into a printed book but without that important detail. I had 30 of my 32 great great great grandparents and with Petter/Peter Anderson and Janet Smith I have the last two. Are you absolutely sure that your information is correct?
I have lots of PDF's from The Scotsman that one of the researchers sent me. If you would like them perhaps we should correspond by email.
I have attached the article in the book that I put together about him. it is better than the website.
I did try and find out more of his life in Shipping but not very hard so I had no luck.
Good luck
Poozan
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Hello again,
John's Parents: Not absolutely certain; but two matching pieces of info from two different unrelated sources seems pretty convincing. A shame if now too late now for your book. (I should like to purchase a copy if printed for public!)
From OPR on website: John was born on 15 October 1793 in the Abbey parish of the town of Paisley. His parents are recorded as Peter/Petter Anderson and Janet Smith. He was baptised on 20 October at the Abbey. No others recorded to give a close competition for date and place.
From Story by Grandson in Liverpool: He was born in the neighbourhood of Glasgow on October 16th 1793.
Cannot think at this minute what else would help....Obituary from Singapore?....hmm...will try...
Thanks for text doc; I will check it too for extra facts. I have quite a lot on Shandon now from lots of sources both books and websites.
Like the sound of the Scotsman stuff. How do I find your email without printing it here; is it possible through your website perhaps? I am a novice on this system.
Yarty
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Hi Yarty
Welcome to RootsChat :)
Just click on this link here www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=105234 This will take you through the personal message service for Susan. You can exchange personal emails this way.
Good luck...like you, Susan, I want to know about this book you have now published!
Monica
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Thank you Monica, I remember how helpful you were to me a year or so ago.
The book that I put together was privately published courtesy of an American Website. I thought that hard copy would be more use, when the next generation are interested and I am dead, than a website. I had 15 printed, 13 for myself and immediate family members and two spare ones. They cost £15.00 each including postage. It has 211 pages and is a mix of information, very little about the distant relatives, copies of documents and photographs. The American firm did a good job in the printing of it.
There you are
Poozan
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Thank you both, Poozan and Monica - I'll be in touch soon!
Yarty