RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Other Countries => Topic started by: judycannon on Thursday 05 August 10 11:50 BST (UK)
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Hi name is Judy I am a new starter at the family search but have reading through some of your chats. I went to a boarding school in Darjeeling called St Andrews and remember going up to St Paul's for evening church services on a Sunday. My father also worked in Durgapore in 1959 at the new steel works. Prior to that we lived in Assam my father was involved with A&J Main building the tea drying sheds.
Can you give me any hints and tips for my family search My mother was old British Raj and it is her family I am trying to find so far not much luck. The names I am searching are Shadwell and Inglis
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Hi Judy
I was at St Paul's from 1958 to the end of 1960 and we also lived in Durgapur. Dad worked at the new steel plant for Wellman, Smith and Owen. It would be good to have a chat with a fellow ex-Durgaporian! Once you have 3 posts on the board you can use the PM (Personal Message) system to communicate.
I can only suggest relocating your search to the main "Other Countries" board so that more people see it.
Add as much information as you can ie where your mother was born and if possible the name of her parents. It all helps eradicate other people of the same name that just cloud the issue.
Tony
Later: Forgot to say "Welcome to Rootschat!"
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Hi Judy
All I can find so far :-
Louise Maud Inglis - Father George Inglis
Marriage to Victor Arthur Shadwell 12th January 1915 at Allahabad, Bengal
Is this the family?
Tony
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Hi Tony Yes those are my grandparents where and how did you find them?
The things I remember about Durgapure wherer the flat roofed bungalows, and the swimming pool.
Did you used to fly up to Darjeeling from Calcutta when you were going back to school we were probably on the same flight how good is that, .
this is my first contact with anybody from those days
Judy
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Hi Judy,
I found your grandparents on FamilySearch Record search. It seems Inglis and Shadwell are quite thick on the ground in India!
Yes, we used to fly up to Bagdogra in old Dakotas and then it was either Jeeps or the "Toy Train" up to Darj. I've been back to India a couple of times recently, Calcutta and Darjeeling for school reunions, but never made it back to Durgapur. I doubt we'd recognise the place as it's now a city of approx one million people! I have been on google earth and found the club and our old houses ( B and C bungalows). That area is basically unchanged. I've formed a Yahoo group for us old expats but, apart from photos and the like, no-one seems to have found the site. I'll let you have the web address by PM as soon as you have more than 3 posts on the board.
Tony
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Hi Judy,
Just a query on St Andrews - was it known by a different name at any time? You know it existed, and I know it existed, but I can't find any reference to it in Hazel Innes Craig's book about the hill schools. Nor can I find an Alumni Association for it!
I had a feeling that at some stage it was amalgamated into St Pauls, but the only reference to anything like that was the amalgamation of Eden Falls, Mark Tully's (the BBC India correspondent) old school, and St Pauls.
Did you also come up to St Pauls for the school plays?
Tony
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Hi Tony
I don't know if St Andrews Church of England School changed names at any time. I have never been able to find any reference to it either so you could be right that it amalgamated with St Paul's, but in my time St Paul's was a boys only school, and we were co-ed only up to the age of 12.
Thank you for your help with the family search site I have found loads of information, but I am unable to find a wife for my 1st forefather even though he had at least 3 children, any clues?? His name was John Augustus Shadwell born 1783 in London and went out to India with the 1st battalion of 18Th foot and ended up a Lieutenant in The 66th when he died in 1830. This search has got me enthralled I cant seem to put it away. Many thanks again
Judy
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Hi Judy,
I'll get the thinking cap on with regard to John Augustus! There should definitely be a health warning posted to these sites!!
Re St Andrews. Have a look at the following link - (you need to scroll a way down the page for the messages)
http://wikimapia.org/1044129/St-Andrew-s-School-Darjeeling-Courtsey-Satyabrata-singh
There appear to be a few pupils from the 50s and 60s who have left comments - but no contact details.
I'll send you a PM with the Durgapur site details
Tony
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Hi Tony thanks for the link to St Andrews I have posted a message on the site but it looks as if it has been a while since it was last used. You never know. I cant remember going up to St Pauls for anything other than the evening church service I used to feel quite intimidated by the place,it was so big. Ding this search has brought back so many memories
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Hi Judy,
Re John Augustus
There is a marriage of a John Shadwell to Esther Jones @ Saint Marylebone, London. Could that be JA's father?
There are then a poss 3 marriages for a John Shadwell in England at around the time JA would have been of marriage age - one in Wilts. one in Berks., and one in Hampshire. (All via FamilySearch)
I have JA's death as 1st Sept 1830 at Barrackpore, Bengal
(Link to Barrackpore http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrackpore
The only child I can find is John Bird Shadwell b. 27th Nov 1818 in Calcutta. There is a marriage record for John Bird to Emma Brockway on the 31st Jan 1849. Unfortunately there was no mother listed on the wedding details!
If I find anything else- or if you do .....................!
Tony
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Yes John and Esther were JA parents I hadn't thought about him being married before he left for India I'll look into that. There was another son Henry Shipp and he is the next link in the family chain and also a daughter Jane who I think married into the Earle family, and there is no mother listed on them either!
Thanks
Judy
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Hi Judy and Tony,
Have you checked out the India office Family History Search ? http://indiafamily.bl.uk/UI/Home.aspx
There is quite a lot on the Shadwell family - and the Earles. It records for instance that John Bird was the illegitimate son of John Augustus and that his mother was a native.
Regards,
Phil
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Hi Phil
Thanks for that I will check it out but those my thoughs as well, my cousin and I have always believed that there was a mixed marriage somewhere along the line.
Thanks
Judy
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Hi Judy,
Have you seen this link
http://www.sumgenius.com.au/earle_family_tree.htm
I also found a record of an Emma Shadwell buried at Cherra in Assam
http://kabristan.org.uk/
Incidently, where were your family in Assam? A friend of mine has a tea plantation (Banamalie Tea Estate) in Dibrugarh.
Tony
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Hi Tony The first thing I found was the Earle family link, but unfortunately it doesn't give much information I have tried to contact the email link but it seems to be discontinued which is a great shame.
The Tea Gardens in Assam were Soklatinga where I was born and my Aunt and Uncle were in Negrating, Silcha and Isabeel. I dont think my Father took to Tea Gardening and went back to his Engineering pretty soon after I was born and we then lived in Jorhart. My Dad went out to India, after the war and from what I can gather he went to work at my Aunt and Uncle's tea garden where he met my Mum. She was the baby of the family, they lost their parents when she was 10 (mum) and 18( dad ) so my Aunt brought her up.
It must have been agreat shock to her system when my Dad brought her back to the UK in 1960 she had never had to cook a meal or was the clothes etc as well as look after my brother and I. Something you don't appreciate when you are child.
Judy
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Hi Judy
I can imagine your mothers shock coming to England! I had a similar experience when we came back and had to find a school for me. After the tight discipline and educational standards of St Paul's, I found it difficult to adjust, and still wish I could have finished my schooling in the Himalaya.
To relive some of the township in Durgapur go to Wikimapia and type in Durgapur Club, India. From the menu at the side look for Durgapur Club Ondal. That will take you to the swimming pool. I found my way to our two bungalows from there!
Meanwhile the search goes on.................. ;D
Tony
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Hi Judy,
Re St Andrews - Have you seen this?
http://groups.google.com/group/st-andrews-school-darjeeling/about
I've done a little more digging on the Inglis side of your family. This is what I have so far:-
George Inglis - born 1841 Father William Inglis
married Letitia Wright 12 Oct 1869 @ Allahabad
died 9 Oct 1890
buried 10 Oct Allahabad
Letitia Wright born 2 Oct 1850
died 17 May 1925
Children of George and Letitia:-
Ellen Letitia
b. 2 Oct 1871
d. 10 Nov 1894
Henrietta Alice Matilda
b. 16 Aug 1873
d. 25 Apr 1893
Blanche Kathleen
b. 22 Apr 1879
M. 26 Feb 1910 to Vernon Reginald Stuart
Louisa Maud - also written as Louise Maud
b. 7 Nov 1881/7*
m. 12 Jan 1915 to Victor Arthur Shadwell
Lillian Mary Anne
b. 17 Oct 1877
m. 14 Feb 1917 to Arthur Wallace Horsfall
*Louisa/e Maud's birth is given as both 1881 and 1887. I assume that someone has mistaken the 1 for a 7 or vice versa, although records show her Christening as 6 Jan 1882!
Tony
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Hi - if John Augustus Shadwell was a forefather of yours, then you are possibly a very remote cousin of mine.
The mother/s of the three children is just listed as being 'native', no name or names (British Library India Office records).
Jane Shadwell married Earle (I once had email contact with an Earle researcher, but he had no information on Jane Shadwell other than the fact of the marriage and children).
John Bird Shadwell married Emma Brockway (she and her sister went out to India, where she met him).
Henry Shipp Shadwell
John Bird Shadwell and Emma had half a dozen children, born in Cherrapunji (one or two in Shillong maybe). John Bird Shadwell was stationed at Cherrapunji, where he was a 'reader', and he wrote about the hill people's languages and customs I believe (I wonder whether this work survives somewhere).
Emma eventually died of fever when they were out and about round the hill villages, so she is not buried at Cherrapunji, though there is a plaque to her there. They lived at Emma Villa, and John Bird Shadwell is buried there in what is now the Langstieh family graveyard.
John Bird Shadwell remarried a while later. Emma Villa should have continued in the ownership of the women of the second marriage family, as with the matrilinial property inheritance tradition, but it was sold to the Catholic church, I believe.
The first three of John Bird and Emma's children were sent to the UK to live with Emma's sisters, and the three younger ones followed later, after Emma's death, so all were brought up in the UK.
I have not managed to track John Augustus Shadwell's line back any further. All I know is that my mother was told that he was over-fond of alcohol. Not very helpful. I would guess from the middle names of his children that he was friends with a Bird family and a Shipp family in India.
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Thank you for all that information which one of the 3 was your forebear? I have never been able to find any information about the Henry Shipp generation, he was my next in line. I was looking in to the unusual middle names and had come to the conclusion they were families that John Augustus was friendly with. I can imagine the early days as a 16-17 year old in stange country they would have all been drawn together as a tight group. My husband and I emigrated to Australia in 1970( we are home again now) but I know how important our friends were then.
Thank you again I will look into all the new information.
Judy
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Hi Tony, I thought I had had found a son as well George Gray Inglis born 21/6/1885 in Allahabad do you think I am on a wrong track there? christened 18/2/1886 and died on 29/9/1938
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Hi Judy
I think you're right. George Gray's parents are shown as George and Letitia.There's also a marriage recorded for a George Grey Inglis to a Rosalind Adeline Johans in 1931. The birth year for George is about 5 years out (1890) but that wasn't unusual, plus his father is shown as George William Inglis.
Tony
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He was actually a surprise to me too, we had never heard of an uncle I can only remember the aunts as a yougster, so where he disappeared to I dont know.
Judy
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Hi Judy.
I am descended from John Bird Shadwell. When I was in touch with the descendants of his second wife some years ago, I think there was a mention that a couple of generations back their family was in touch with other Shadwells in the Calcutta area, descended from Henry Shipp Shadwell. I once did a google search for Shadwell on Indian websites - had to skip all the pages where 'Shadwell' refers to a birth place - and eventually did come across someone in that part of India with the surname Shadwell. But they could be descended from one other Shadwell's who were out there at the same time as John Augustus Shadwell and his children.
There is a property called something like 'Shadwell Villa' in Shillong.
John Bird Shadwell is the J B Shadwell who applied for a grant of 1000 acres of land for a tea plantation on Dec 17th 1855, from a table in the book "Socio-economic and political problems of tea garden workers: a study of Assam" By Shyam Narain Singh, Amarendra Narain, Purnendu Kumar. He is also quoted in one or two books - for example on the subject of white tigers (from website http://www.messybeast.com/genetics/tigers-white.htm):
It says "Lt.-Col. FT Pollok wrote in his book "Wild Sports of Burmah and Assam" (1879) "Mr. Shadwell, Assistant Commissioner in the Cossyah and Jyntiah Hills, also had two skins quite white, but when turned about in a strong light just a faint mark or two could be seen to indicate that they belonged to a tiger at all." ..."
I have about 60 letters written by Emma and John Bird Shadwell to the older three children from when they were taken to the UK by their aunt, onwards. It must have been very hard to send your children so far and to see them so rarely - I am not certain if Emma saw them again before she died, but I think perhaps she went to the UK once. There is no mention of relatives in India in the letters. They are mostly about being good for their aunts, requesting that new 'likenesses' be sent (the damp presumably spoiled them quickly), and some chat about others living in Cherra or visiting. And much asking God to bless and keep her children safe. In one letter Emma says she has been making something like chicken soup for an unwell neighbour, but her husband is not happy that his wife is tiring herself with this as there are others who can do it, including the neighbour's servants.
It seems that sometimes they were struggling a bit with money - an apology for not being able to send more for the childrens' keep. As an Anglo-Indian John Bird's career in the East India Company would have had hit a specific ceiling.
There are one or two later letters, after Emma's death, in which John Bird asks about my grandmother, then a baby. He lived until about 1904 I think.
I was wondering what schools John Bird and Henry Shipp would have attended - do you have any idea? There might be archived records.
I have photos of John Bird Shadwell's daughters Emma and either Flora or Lily (when elderly), which I will try to get uploaded at some point soon.
My great aunts always claimed that our Shadwell ancestors were descended from the Poet Laureate, but I have never been able to make the connection. That Shadwell (who apparently may have invented the musical and was very talented in that field), claimed to be related to the aristocratic Shadwell family, and did get an official family crest etc on that basis, but I am not so sure. The Poet Laureate had many children, and not all lines of descent have been found.
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Andrew Brown of Melbourne university visited Cherrapunji when researching his book that relates to the Welsh missionaries in the area. This article of his, link below, mentions J B and Emma Shadwell:
http://www.msp.unimelb.edu.au/eoe/index.php/missions/article/viewFile/4/25
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As an Anglo-Indian John Bird's career in the East India Company would have had hit a specific ceiling.
I found this info on John Bird
Record details
Name: John Bird SHADWELL
Event type: BaptismDate: 27 NovYear: 1818
Location: Ft. William
Parents: John Augustus, Cpt., H. C. 26th N.
I.; A nativeNotes: (illeg.)
Transcribed by: British LibraryIndia Office Records Reference:
Tony
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Yes, that's the gg grandfather. And we don't even know if he and the other two had the same mother - they all just say 'native', with no name. Sad.
I need to get down to the British Library and look for the John Augustus Shadwell cadet record - is that the right one - that should say where he was living when he first joined the EIC.
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Did he join the EIC as a soldier? They did have their own Army after all, although the record states that he was a Captain H.C. (Household Cavalry?) 26th N (26th Division North?) and located at Fort William. Did the EIC have their own version of the Household Cavalry?
The present Fort William was built in Calcutta in 1781
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_William_(India)
Tony
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I have to research this - most of the family history that I have was researched by my second cousin once removed years ago. Was the army out there in 1830 or was it mainly the EIC. When did the crown or UK govt take over from the EIC? I also need to check in the St Mary's Church Marylebone parish records. The only John Augustus Shadwell mention I have found is from their records. It would be good to find his parents and where they were from - then we might get an idea of whether or not these are Shadwells from the main well-known Shadwell families of lawyers, chancellors, doctors etc. I think there are two distinct families, one from the Norfolk area, Poet Laureate etc who moved to Ireland at some point (being R Catholic at the wrong point in history I think?), and one from the midlands with the titles. There are Irish Shadwells who married into the Mitchells of Mitchellstown or somewhere similar, and moved to their Bristol estate - some of these were in Surrey I think later on. Randy Ingham from the Shadwell genealogy boards researches the Irish Shadwells, as they are in his ancestry. Unwanted English landlords I guess!
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The East India Company, from what I can gather, were the Indian Army in those days they recruited, trained and deployed the troops in India until the Indian Rebellion in 1857. I think it was only after that their influence was restrained, and the running of British India came under the influence of the government in Westminster its all very interesting, and I still have a lot of reading to do. I have down loaded the book by Andrew Brown-May should make interesting reading I lived very close to the Kassi Hills in Jorhort in Assam, so proves even more the family link. I have just started reading a book by Saul David called the Indian Mutiny it has a lot of information
Judy
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The East India Company, from what I can gather, were the Indian Army in those days they recruited, trained and deployed the troops in India until the Indian Rebellion in 1857.
Quite right Judy, the British Crown took over the running of India in 1858 under the Government of India act 1858. The EIC was finally disolved in 1874.
Addictive, isn't it!!
Tony
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Too True
I think my husband of 40years is about to divorce me!! i had better go and feed him
Judy
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Hi. Here is some of the information I have from India Office Library BMB records:
Lt Col. John Augustus Shadwell (b.1783) was an officer in the Bengal Army when he died on Sept 1st 1830.
He was serving as Lieutenant in 26th Native Infantry in Cawnpore in 1805. Captain in 26th Native Infantry in 1818. Major in the 66th Native Infantry in 1824.
Children:
1. Jane Shadwell (illegitimate)
Birth 1805.
Christened 1808 Fort William, Calcutta, India. Aged 3.
2. John Bird Shadwell b.1818 Bengal, India
3. Henry Shipp Shadwell
John Bird Shadwell m. Emma Brockway (she was aged 23) 31st Aug 1849 Calcutta, in the Cathedral.
JB Shadwell was an adjutant in the political agents office in Cherrapunji at the time. In 1850 and 1852 he was a writer in the Office of the Political Commissioner of Assam. 1862 Assistant Commissioner. 1868 (Thackers Bengal Directory) listed among the Uncovenanted Servants as Deuputy Collector and Deputy Magistrate 3rd Class, Cosdeah and Jynteah Hills, Assam. 1869 and 1873 Extra Assistant Commissioner of Assam, living at Jonea. 1878 Extra Assistant Commissioner.
In 1882, 1886, 1890 and 1896 he was Managing Agent to H Inglis & Co., Chattuck, Sylhet - they were Lime and Orange Merchants.
In 1891 described as a government pensioner, living at Chatak, Sylhet (at time of second marriage).
By the time Flora Shadwell married in 1883 he is described as a gentleman, which suggests he had retired by then.
Children of the first marriage:
Emma (b 1850 Cherrapunji) (this is my great grandmother)
St Clair Brockway (1852-1917) He was a doctor, became MoH to Walthamstow.
Flora Elizabeth Darley (b 1854)
Howard Brockway (1856 - 1905)
Lilian Brockway (b. 1862)
May Brockway (b.1867)
Could the H Inglis & Co that John Bird Shadwell worked for after retirement be related to your Inglis ancestry, or is it a coincidence?
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Hi. The only information I have for Henry Shipp Shadwell is that he was baptised 23rd June 1824 at Dinapore (John Augustus Shadwell was a Major in the 66th NI at the time), and he married Ellen Catherine (surname?). In 1853 they had a daughter Sophia Ellen. Henry was a 'writer' at the time (clerk?). Do you have more of his family history? It would be interesting to know more about him.
John Augustus's antecedents - a Canadian branch of the family, descended from John Bird and Emma, were told that they were descended from Thomas Shadwell, Poet Laureate. This was most likely passed down the family from Emma Shadwell, eldest daughter of JB and Emma.
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And hi again!
John Bird Shadwell's second marriage - in case anyone recognises any of the names of the Khasi relatives:
John Bird Shadwell m. Lucca Langstieh, 1892?, Calcutta.
Children:
1 Renwith Shadwell (he married into the Surong Clan), had three children, Nick, Oz and Minie.
2 Cliff Shadwell ("Klip", married into the Pakyntein Clan). He became an administrative officer at Jowai. His ashes are in the grounds of Emma Villa. had three children, Caroline Archie and Bamfield:
Caroline (no issue); Archie, the late A.F.N. Shadwell of Nongrim (? spelling) Hills. No children, and Bamfield had four children.
3 Edwin Shadwell (married into the Kharmalki Clan). He had four children, Silvia, Theodora, Alexander and Diana. His daughter Silvia had two children, Patta (Clan Kh.Malki) and Ditta (also m. into Kh.Malki clan).These two may still be alive.
4 Len Shadwell (married into the Laloo Clan, Ms Nerie Laloo?). He became a Superintendent of Police at Shillong. When Mr Ballantyne from the UK took over the post, Len went back to Emma Villa, and is buried there. His son Douglass (m. into Hunniewta clan) was living with his wife and family in Mawlai ten years ago, but was very old then.
5 Violet Edwina Shadwell, married Henry A Davies (they had no children so the matrilineal line from Lucca Langstieh was broken). Violet died on 2/2/1972. Her funeral was at Cherrapunji. Mr H A Davies sold Emma Villa in Cherrapunji to the Catholic Church Cherrapunji on 12th June 1983. He died on 1st July 1985.
The house that John Bird Shadwell and Emma lived in, Emma Villa, is at Kut Madan, Cherrapunji. The Langstieh family cemetery is there in the grounds. There is a plaque there to Emma Shadwell, and John Bird Shadwell's grave, plus Shadwell Langstieh graves. Lucca Langstieh's grave is there as well.
According to descendants of Lucca Langstieh's sister, the four Shadwell boys from the second marriage were the first among the Khasi people to be sent to Calcutta for a decent education - there was an uncle in Calcutta (I guess they might have stayed with him?).
This might have been Henry Shipp Shadwell or one of his family.
Renwith and Edwin - one of them was running Lucca Shadwell Langstieh's Lime Company at Ichmati on the southern side of Cherrapunji (now in Bangla Desh). The other brother was in the Ropeway Company then run by British people.
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Hi Londoner 2 You have so much information did you get it all from the British library records? I have no information about Henry Shipp other than his marriage to Ellen Catherine we think her name was Kayne but not 100% sure they had 4 children that I can find
Ellen Jane I think died shortly after or at birth
William Earle Shadwell born 16th April 1849 who is my next in line married Blanche Adelaide Fritschy it was her 2nd marriage her maiden name was Hampton daughter of Henry George Hampton
Henry Thomas born 1847
Sophia Ellen born 1854
That is really all the information I have. I think I am going to have to come down to London for a few days and trawl the records.
I haven't got very far with the Inglis side either there are so many of them.
My grandfather was a son of William Earle and Blanche Adelaide his name was Victor Arthur married Louisa Maud Inglis. I can remember as a young child meeting relatives in Calcutta, but who I do not remember but you could be right that the Uncle was Henry Shipp. How do I go about finding that kind of information? I would be really interested to follow that but I dont know where to start
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Hi Judy.
Luckily my second cousin x times removed (I am going to stick to 'cousin', it is easier), and another relative whom I never met did loads of footslogging, years ago. They saw parish records, researched in the India Office records, etc. My 'cousin' is very thorough and always made sure every entry on the family tree was confirmed in proper records. Most of his information is on the Brockway side of the family (Emma who married John Bird Shadwell was Emma Brockway. Her father was William Brockway from Wiltshire). Then I also received a Langstieh sisters family tree and info from someone in India. My mother, who passed away recently, had a few snippets of information, a few items of Indian gold jewellery, a few wooden toys from India that were passed down the family to her, and the sixty letters from India. I found a few records online that filled in some gaps - including the fact that John Bird Shadwell was anglo-indian and his second wife a Khasi businesswoman.
Other Shadwell researchers have been helpful as well - for elimination of unrelated Shadwell families, for suggestions, and because they often had found 'my' Shadwells in the course of their searches.
So it was mostly not my own efforts! Though I have spent long hours lost in the furthest reaches of google searches, especially when looking for relevant Shadwells, as it is the name of several places around the world, a horse stud, some famous US ranch or something, the poet laureate, well known past musician or two, plus all the references to the Staffordshire Shadwells, Irish Shadwells, Sussex Shadwells, American Shadwells ..... I used to start at Page 25 of the Google Shadwell search just trying to get clear of the poet laureate.
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Hi. The Earle family are interesting. I found this page on Solomon Earle:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~desmier/Earle.html
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Someone with lots of information on various Shadwells is Joan D'Arcy on Genforum.
http://genforum.genealogy.com/shadwell/
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thank you Londoner2 am just signing up for that site
Judy
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I have just read the Soloman Earle piece as you say very interesting I would love to know apart from Jane Shadwell why they were so important to the Shadwells so much so that my GG was named William Earle Shadwell
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Thank you for the Gen forum link I have uploaded a message there
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They were both EIC India families, and John Augustus Shadwell must have known them. Solomon was out in India, his sons were out in India, and Solomon worked for the EIC at their depot or whatever it was. Those important support networks would be part of it. The families may have intermarried more than once, or there could be a second, different, Shadwell family involved! Or, more romantically, perhaps a Shadwell or an Earle saved the life of an Earle or a Shadwell, or maybe they shared a particularly bad military engagement at some point. It would be interesting to know.
It struck me how with John Bird & Emma's children back in the UK, a quite high-ranking EIC officer who had been based at, or visited, Cherrapunji, returning to London went to visit the children, taking letters or small items I think. Support network.
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On the subject of Inglis - there is, or was, a monument to a George Inglis at Chatak that was reported to have been damaged and rotated n the earthquake of 1897 - might he be an earlier antecedent?
Photo of said rotated monument:
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2007/1145/
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Hi Londoner 2 Your tip about Joan Darcy hi the jackpot she has sent me a lot of information. Your Aunt was right about the Poet Laureate. If you would like send me your email I will send it all onto you.
Judy
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My ancestors also being Brockways, I see that Emma, St Clair, Flora and Howard Shadwell were living with their Aunt Martha Brockway (listed as guardian) in Walthamstow (Essex) in 1871. Also Lilian and May are with her in 1891 in Hertfordshire.
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Hi. Yes. Their parents sent the older four to Walthamstow from India (Martha or one of the other Brockway sisters may have gone out to collect them perhaps), and the two younger girls joined them after the death of their mother (Emma Shadwell nee Brockway). It must have been quite a journey from Cherrapunji to Walthamstow, especially before the steamship service. And quite a culture shock too. These are Brockways originally from Wiltshire. Where are your Brockway ancestors from?
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My Brockway ancestors are from Wiltshire. I believe my 4th great grandfather Hezekiah is a brother of Emma's father, William. Do you have a copy of the Walkers' "The Brockways of Wiltshire"?
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No, I have not read the book. I will have to look on the Brockway lists that my cousin gave me - he and another Brockway relative did all the research. Fenner Brockway was a relative.
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Do you know that Emma's mother told her children she eloped with William, arriving in London hidden in a hay cart?
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Hi. I am just getting Jane Shadwell straight, I think:
Jane Shadwell, daughter of John Augustus Shadwell
Married William Henry Earle (1794-1846), son of Solomon and Rose Earle, at Meerut 12 Feb 1821
She was born Sept 5th 1805 so she was only 16 yrs old.
Children:
1 Her daughter Mary Anne was born 15 May 1822, when Jane Shadwell was 17 years old.
2. Her son William Henry Shadwell Earle was baptised 10 Dec 1824, died in Norwood UK Sept 1904
Maj-Gen, Bengal Army; bap 10 Dec 1824 Monghyr, son of William Henry Earle, Bengal Army N/1/13 f.481; d 28 Sep 1904 Norwood, London. He had been living near Westrow Road in Crystal Palace apparently.
3.? Then a search of the India Office records also produced Anne Griffiths Earle, born 18 October, 1835, Neemuch. Parents William Henry Earle (Capt. 39th Bengal) and Jane. It did not appear on yesterday's search, only todays! Were there two Wm Henry Earles around, married to Janes?
Mary Anne Shadwell
If Mary Anne Shadwell is the same as Marianne Shadwell, then she married John Charles Haslock and had a son
Charles William Haslock born 20 November 1844, baptised 1846
That Earle family website has Mary Anne marrying John Charles Haslock
Confusing.
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Hi Londoner2 I must admit I am only just digesting all that information we got from Joan, I can't seem to be able to get around those India office records on line I think I will have to come down to London for a few days and get some hints and tips. I didn't know whether any of the others were connected to the Army, so that is a break through. I got confused with the William Henry Shadwell Earle and William Earle Shadwell. The family seem to have given their children names of other families, as you suggest a support grouip but very confusing. I wonder if any of them were involved in the Indian Mutiny in 1857 and where they would have been stationed? If they remained around Meerut that was the starting point for the rebellion.
Harriet Tytlers book (she was an Earle) mentions a cousin, no no that is getting ahead of myself. I am going up to Edinburgh for the tastoo so will be away a couple of days will be in touch when i get back Happy Hunting
Judy
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Hi. You talk about the Brockways and Shadwells in Walthamstow, which I have also discovered in the 1871 census whilst looking for my great grandfather, George Robert Hudson b. 1856, Cherrapunji. He is listed as a 'boarder', aged 15. I would be most grateful if anybody has any information about his family (especially his parents names/siblings etc). I am curious to find out what his link might be to your family? Thank you.
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Hi. He was probably the son of friends or acquaintances of John Bird Shadwell and Emma in Cherrapunji. They sent their first four children to Watlhamstow to be brought up by Emma's sister, then the youngest two followed later, after their mother's death. There were uprisings in India, and in the hills, at various times so parents might have preferred to send children to the UK. Not to mention fever (malaria, dengue fever, other diseases). It was not uncommon for children to be sent 'home' to be boarders, either to family or friends, or to people who took in these boarders. There is a sad Rudyard Kipling story about two children being sent to board with a family who favour the girl but are very horrid to the boy. Eventually a family friend returning from India is sent to check on them and comes to the rescue.
The name Hudson rings a bell - it may be mentioned in the letters from Shadwell parents to the children in England. The person who can actually read the handwriting of the letters is Andrew May in Australia! He read all the letters, rapidly, on a visit to London, and took notes on any matters relevant to his research for his books and papers (look through the publications on his website).
http://www.history.unimelb.edu.au/about/staff/may.html#publications
An India Office Family History search brings up plenty of Hudsons but not George Robert I think. At least one of them is an indigo planter, some work for the railways, and some work for the EIC.
The north east hills had lime extraction companies, citrus fruit businesses, tea plantations, etc.
You could try the trade directories, cemeteries, etc.
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Hi all — C.K. Hudson was the Principal Assistant Commissioner of the Khasi and Jaintia Hills from 1855. He had previously been a deputy collector in Assam (see The Asiatic journal and monthly miscellany 1838 in Google Books)
When the lime merchant Harry Inglis returned to England from the Khasi Hills, he appointed C.K. Hudson as manager of his company. Later on (after Harry's death), his son Leo Inglis appointed J.B. Shadwell as chief accountant of the company. After Hudson's death some time after 1878, Shadwell became the manager.
From my notes, the refs in Londoner2's letters to Hudson in Cherrapunji are as follows:
- Mr Hudson has sent me some flowers and vegetable seeds (J.B. Shadwell, 23 Oct 1863)
I saw Miss Hudson yesterday she told me to give her love to Georgie & said she would tell her Papa that Georgie wished to have his & her likeness (Emma Shadwell, 24 March 1864)
Another party of the survey have come up to survey the hills They have pitched their tent between Mr Hudsons house & the bridge towards Mr Inglis house (Emma Shadwell, 9 Feb 1864)
This is all a bit of a coincidence - I am just completing the book on the Welsh missionaries in the Khasi Hills and this morning was writing a little about the Shadwells, so fortuitously came across your very recent postings.
Andrew
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Hi Andrew - I should have remembered that information! But it is quite a while since I have had free time for Shadwell research.
What other journals etc would be useful for tracking Bengal ancestors who do not appear much in EIC records, and for picking up the local news of the period? So far, I have not found anything much on Henry Shipp Shadwell, J B Shadwell's brother, so I need to look further afield.
Looking forward to reading that book ...
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Hello All,
Andrew you seem to have a great deal of information, I am searching a link between Shadwell and Inglis, so far found very little about Inglis family, The Shadwells have been fabulous thanks to Londoner2. How are you Vivienne? Can you give me any ideas where to go for Inglis information, The family seem to have stayed around the Allahabad region for many years, and my Grandfather worked for Pioneer Press I think as a photographer. My grandfather was the son of William Earle Shadwell.
My mothers generation ended up in Assam, but I dont know how or when. Also looking forward to the book about the Khasi Hills I remember them well.
Thanking you
Judy
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Hi all.
I am uploading a Brockway photo for Knysh, which has not scanned in very well. My mother said that it is probably Mary Ann Brockway, one of Emma Brockway's sisters. If that is correct, she would be sister-in-law to J B Shadwell.
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Judy — I'm working on it, but I can't actually find any connection between your Inglises and the Inglis family at Chhatak and in the Khasi Hills. According to his 1850 will, George Inglis of Chhatak (born c. 1774, father of Harry Inglis) had 8 children — Harry, John, George, Jane, Elizabeth, Sarah and Mary Ann — but no William, who as a contemporary was the father of your George.
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Hi Andrew Thank you for looking. I'll keep delving and see what I can find. I was talking to my mum today she say's the name Charles rings a bell so I'll go down that line for a while and see what I find.
Thanks again
Judy
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Hi there,
I have been reading your messages about the Shadwells in India. My grandmother was born in Calcutta in 1915 and her name was Blanche Shadwell. She married George Oliver. If there is any information that you have could you please pass on.
Thanks Sue
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Hi Sue, I tried to post a reply yesterday but don't know if it has gone or not so I will try again.
Blanche Mary Shadwell born about 1915 was the daughter of Walter William Woodhouse Shadwell and Mary (Weir) Ross.
Walter was born 21/6/1884 in India and died in England, I dint have a date
Mary was born about 1882 and died on26/12/1926 in Barrackpore
Walter was the brother of my grandfather Victor Arthur Shadwell
Their Father was William Earle Shadwell born 16/2/1849 in Seharanpore and died 13/9/1901
Their Mother was Blanche Adelaide Fritschy (nee Hampton) her 2nd marriage
His Father was Henry Shipp Shadwell born about 1824 in Dinapore Bengal
Mother was Ellen Catherine Kaine born about 1827and died 24/10/1854
His father was Lt. Colonel John Augustus Shadwell born on 23/7/1783 in London and died 1/9/1830 in Barrackpore
I have bits and pieces of information if you would like anything more please let me know
Regards Judy
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Hi name is Judy I am a new starter at the family search but have reading through some of your chats. I went to a boarding school in Darjeeling called St Andrews and remember going up to St Paul's for evening church services on a Sunday. My father also worked in Durgapore in 1959 at the new steel works. Prior to that we lived in Assam my father was involved with A&J Main building the tea drying sheds.
Can you give me any hints and tips for my family search My mother was old British Raj and it is her family I am trying to find so far not much luck. The names I am searching are Shadwell and Inglis
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Judy Cannon from St Andrews, Darjeeling, 1956 -1959. My name is Andrea Black. I was the only American at the school. I considered you one of my best friends at St. Andrews. I am in touch with Jackie Booth. If you would like to correspond please write back
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Hi Andrea,
It looks as though Judy hasn't been on site since 2012 so I don't know if she'll get your message. There's the possibility that one of her correspondants here may have her email address. We are not allowed to post email addresses on the public forum so you will need to make one more post so that you can use the private message facility here, (it's the little green icon under your user name) which will enable someone to pass the info on - if they have her details. She used to be a member of my Yahoo group for Durgapur before I closed the group down last year and lost my email contacts on there in the process! Hopefully, someone will come up with contact details for you.
Tony
Added. I think Judy's married name is private information removed by moderator
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Hi Andrea,
Further to the above, I think I may have found Judy's email address! :o
As above, you will have to make one more post sothat I can send it to you via a Personal/Private Message. ( Just a simple answer to these messages would take you to the required three posts)
Tony
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I know this is an old post but I'm hoping someone will see it. Does anyone know who Blanche Adelaide Hampton married the first time and where? I know it was to Mr Fritschy but I can't find a marriage.
TIA
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Hi Kit1,
Found this information on FamilySearch:-
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/9W27-QWJ (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/9W27-QWJ)
Unfortunately, not much to go on as there is no first name given for the husband (Fritschy), or where and when the marriage took place.
Judy, who started this thread hasn't been active on the site since 2012 so, unless someone else comes up with anything, you seem to be at a brick wall! Have you checked for a marriage on Ancestry?
Sorry I can't help much but, hopefully, someone will pick up on the thread with more info.
Tony
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Thanks Tony. No I haven't tried ancestry yet. There is nothing on the findmypast's British India Office Records.
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Hello there,
I am sorry to say that it does look like Judy is having problems with receiving her email address. Any emails that do not reach the user are always investigated by RootsChat to make sure that they get through to the users :)
Tony if you have found an alternative email address for Judy we would appreciate it if you could forward to me by Private Message this would help Judy be aware of any new replies to new posts.
Regards
Sarah :)
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Hi
Reading through the trail of mails here I saw a familiar name 'Clifford Shadwell'. Upon enquiry with my uncle and aunts it turns out he was my great grandfather. I am a descendant of his through his son John Bird Shadwell's second marriage. Thankyou Londoner2 for listing down my family tree from my fathers side of the family.
Karen
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Hi Karen.
I hope it is OK to list your tree?
I have a dna match with Alicia Reade, who has people in her family tree with the name Syiem.