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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Nottinghamshire => Topic started by: LellyM on Tuesday 03 August 10 16:52 BST (UK)
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OK, I have lost my GGG Grandfather!
Samuel Sansom Fox (or Fox Sansom). He is in the 1881 census and in 1901 and 1911 but has vanished in 1891. His wife is still around (as a widow?).
I am also interested in the lace industry and specifically the guys who went over to France.
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Hi LellyM and welcome to RootsChat
Can you give us a bit more information about him? Census references if you know them, otherwise year & place of birth, other members of his family - and we will try to find him for you :D
Linda
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He may have gone to France. The surname of the 1793 revolutionary executioner was Sansom I believe, so Sansom Fox may have returned to France. Wonder if he can be traced in a French census?
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Well Sam was born in 1839 and married Virginie Hemsley in 1859 first of all then Esther Chapman in 1869. Then he lived with Agnes Annie Bosworth (calling himself a widower despite Esther still being alive - can't find any evidence he ever married Agnes though). Esther calls herself a Widow.
He was borh in Sutton in Ashfield to Hannah Samson (no father on birth cert) but she gave him the middle name "FOX" and married a Joseph Fox shortly aftre Sam's birth so we can but summise.
I have him in 1871 - 1881 and 1901 & 1911 but not 1891. I have looked at the addresses he had in 1881 and 1901 but he isn't there (even under a false name). As he changes his name as often as he changes his wives it is a little tricky.
Born Samuel Fox Sansom, then becomes Samuel Sansom Fox when his mum remarries, then Stays Sam Fox until 1861 census when it looks like the census taker has mistakenly "ditto'd" the surname from the family next door (the 1st names, dates, places of birth and kids are all correct) and calls him Samuel Wilson.
He stays Fox until 1901 when he reverts to Sansom and is livign with Agnes Annie (I guess as his wife is still alive he has changed his name).
It is a little tricky as there is another Samuel Sansom an iron founder but ours is definitely a lace worker.
What doesn't help is that his kids are living with Esther in 1891 so we can't even trace him through them. We are summising that as Agnes's 1st child was born in 1890 and her rd has the middle name Fox, that maybe Sam met her at work between 1881 and 1891, they started a relationship, she got pregnant so he had to tell Esther, who promptly left him and took the kids and called herself a widon to avoid the shame. Agnes is 25 yrs younger than Sam and would have been 21 when her 1st child was born.
Another family member (who i met doing the tree) had the same stores as us but had Sam moving to Paris to be a photographer! But he contracted a french researcher to look in paris and found nothing so.....
I am hoping to go to the maitre in Calais this summer to see if I can get at the census returns as i can't find them online.
We also have fun with Sam's son Joseph Samuel Fox as he marries a lady called Agnes Rogers a few years after their 1st 3 kids are born but 2 of the 3 are recorded as being born in France. Again, we can't find any evidence. Even the LDS site is no help!
As you can tell, we are a little frustrated. I have tried emailing the Calais maitre but had no reply so I will be tryign out my not too feeble french when I go over. It is a little annoying that the french census returns are not on Ancestry or a similar site!
ooh!
Nearly forgot the census references:
1841 HO 107/861/7
1851 HO 107/2127
1861 RG 9/2418
1871 RG10/3504
1881 RG11/3363
1901 RG13/3178
I was frustrated recently when I went back to Nottingham to go to the lace museum only to discover it is now a restaurant. I checked on the Nottingham archives website but they don't list anythign in the way of lace records.
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You've probably tried this already but ancestry has some French bmds.
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Yep, and strangely enough my guys aren't on them!
I am getting the feeling maybe the french connection is a bit of family folk lore and was all to cover up a bit of bigamy or illigitimacy!
Well, I did say i didn't want my family to be beige so I guess I am getting my wish!
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Have you seen the baptisms for three of Joseph Samuel and Agnes' children on www.familysearch.org?
Myrtle Agnes (1895), Agnes (1898) and Ivy Violet (1900) are all there.
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Thanks but yes. It is the French ones that don't seem to be there. ???
Still, I am feeling as through i will get to the bottom of it one way or another.
Lellyxx
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Keep it up. The French are just being their normal selves beneath their dignity to reply!
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Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose!
(the more things change, the more they stay the same)
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Yes they did manage to instil a little French into my blockhead at school. Most of it had to be knocked in though!
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Well, if my verbal family history is correct then I am genetically 1/8th french!
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I believe I have at least one ancestor of Hugenot origin, surname Moule.
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Well, we knew about the recent lace french link but on my paternal side we managed to get back to some guys who fought (on thre wong side) at agincourt and came across for hastings - yes, Norman Knights. Now, this is at best tenuous but it made my mum happy!