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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: cloviscat on Tuesday 03 August 10 15:06 BST (UK)

Title: Two photos - is this the same man?
Post by: cloviscat on Tuesday 03 August 10 15:06 BST (UK)
Hi there

Grateful to gather some opinions. The photo on the left is a relly who died in WWI aged 20. The photo on the right was found in a bundle of family pics and is unlabelled.

Is it the same man?

The uniform is right - Gordon Highlanders - but as there were brothers, cousins etc also in the GH, it's not conclusive enough on its own.

I feel there are similarities in ear-shape, bottom lip etc.  It's hard to see if the chin cleft, hairline etc are the same as the angle is different, the hair length has changed and the quality of the left hand pic is poor (I believe it is scanned from a newspaper - I don't have the original).

What do you think?

Cloviscat
Title: Re: Two photos - is this the same man?
Post by: Jean McGurn on Tuesday 03 August 10 15:11 BST (UK)
Looking at the shape of the eyes I  inclined to think they are brothers rather than the same person.

Jean
Title: Re: Two photos - is this the same man?
Post by: cloviscat on Tuesday 03 August 10 16:28 BST (UK)
Thanks Jean!

However, because all the other brothers survived (although with major injuries) I have lots of pics of them for comparison and I feel I can confidently say it's none of them.

It doesn't really fit as a cousin. Either it's the chap on the left who died, or a complete red herring...

Cloviscat

Title: Re: Two photos - is this the same man?
Post by: Finley 1 on Tuesday 03 August 10 17:23 BST (UK)
very similar  but difficult due to angle???

xin
Title: Re: Two photos - is this the same man?
Post by: Windsor87 on Tuesday 03 August 10 23:20 BST (UK)
I'm pretty confident that they are the same man.

The mouth, eyes, ears (to an extent), and what you can see of his hairline make me sure.
Title: Re: Two photos - is this the same man?
Post by: net64 on Tuesday 03 August 10 23:39 BST (UK)
I think they are the same man.They have the same mouth and facial features

Annette
Title: Re: Two photos - is this the same man?
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Tuesday 03 August 10 23:41 BST (UK)
I would agree with one and the same man, the hairline on the side, also ears, nose and mouth...also has similar/same uniform.

Cas
Title: Re: Two photos - is this the same man?
Post by: Jool on Wednesday 04 August 10 00:26 BST (UK)
I agree too, I think it's the same chappie.

Jool
Title: Re: Two photos - is this the same man?
Post by: Chrisann on Wednesday 04 August 10 12:28 BST (UK)
I think that they are the same person too. Chrisann
Title: Re: Two photos - is this the same man?
Post by: mare on Wednesday 04 August 10 12:32 BST (UK)
... checking all features, pretty much everything matches up apart from the angle, so a yes from me too  :) mare
Title: Re: Two photos - is this the same man?
Post by: SalmonBlue on Wednesday 04 August 10 12:58 BST (UK)
I would say that 95% its the same chap
but
is it me but the hair style looks different
1 looks to have a side parting while the other looks to have a central parting or is it the way the hat sits
Darren
Title: Re: Two photos - is this the same man?
Post by: Steve G on Wednesday 04 August 10 18:12 BST (UK)
 :-\ Cloviscat; I love these ones. But, I feel This one's hellishly hard to call.

I deliberately studied the shots like blazes before allowing myself to look at any further comments. I now see the majority reckon they're one and the same? You say yeself they're Not Brothers? Urr .....

 Killed when he was twenty? So, there wouldn't have been much time for him to develop facial features ~ other than possibly the 'ageing' effects of combat stress.

 Of course, the completely different views of his eyes doesn't help us one bit, does it? Eyebrows are distinctive and dead ringers. I'm not entirely happy with that ear though ..... Mouth's a bit 50 / 50 too .....

 Dunno. If ye'd allowed for Brothers? I'd have said Absolutely. As it is? Ye'll have to file me under todays minority, I'm afraid. I'm " Undecided ". Couldn't commit to an affirmation of same man.

 Sorry to be the what not in the wood pile  :(
Title: Re: Two photos - is this the same man?
Post by: Sloe Gin on Wednesday 04 August 10 18:55 BST (UK)
I can't see a single feature that does not match.  Hair is irrelevant, anyone can change their hairstyle and in any case I can see very little difference here. 

I don't think it's realistic to expect people always to look exactly the same in different photos.  Many factors can bring about small variations in appearance: light levels, camera angles etc.
Title: Re: Two photos - is this the same man?
Post by: janan on Wednesday 04 August 10 19:29 BST (UK)
I would say yes it is the same man but, like Steve G, I'm not really happy with the ear.

Jan ;)
Title: Re: Two photos - is this the same man?
Post by: alpinecottage on Wednesday 04 August 10 19:44 BST (UK)
I think the man in the left hand photo has a side parting and a scar from the centre of his brow snaking round to his left eye.  I think you can see traces of his scar at the hairline and also in the centre of his left eyebrow on the right hand photo.  Such a prominent scar would be mentioned on his WW1 attestation docs, if they still exist.

Also do you know where the newspaper photo is now or where it came from?  It may be an announcement of his death, which would confirm the question one way or the other for you.
Title: Re: Two photos - is this the same man?
Post by: cuthie on Wednesday 04 August 10 20:00 BST (UK)
I'm with the majority in that I think it is the same man.  The hair is obviously a lot shorter in one photo, but the shape of the hairline just below the cap badge for the Gordons is the same.  Good idea about contacting the newspaper the photo was in for any information.

Cuthie
Title: Re: Two photos - is this the same man?
Post by: Finley 1 on Wednesday 04 August 10 20:05 BST (UK)
I have marked this with similarities and differences   see if that helps... Pink is for not same..

one has a dimple in his chin that I cannot see in the other... one has a more pointed ear lobe. and one has a little longer eyebrow .... but that could be the pic... etc

xin
Title: Re: Two photos - is this the same man?
Post by: cloviscat on Thursday 05 August 10 16:53 BST (UK)
Lots of useful points and replies - may thanks.

He is my father-in-law's uncle / my husband's great uncle / my children's gt gt uncle - whichever way you want to put it. My father-in-law remembered there was a photo on the wall of him when he was growing up but didn't know what came of it.

The photo on the right was, as I say, just an unidentified photo in a much bigger box of pics. As I could see it was a Gordon Highlander, and clearly not one of the other brothers (each of whom have very distinctive and different facial features) I was hopeful but...

Then the left hand photo was found on a roll-of-honour website listing for this man. My father-in-law (a cautious man) immediately idenitified it as the picture on the wall from his childhood. I am tracking back the page and hoping to get a pointer to the original source - probably the local paper.

So - I have every reason to believe the left hand photo is my man. I'm guessing early on after enlistment? The second pic shows him wearing a creased and crumpled kilt, so I wondered if it may be taken later on, possibly after being posted.

Problem is I know I *want* it to be him! And that's not a good place from which to develop an objective opinion. Pleased to see so many of you leaning towards the positive though :-)

Cloviscat
Title: Re: Two photos - is this the same man?
Post by: cloviscat on Friday 27 September 13 20:42 BST (UK)
This conversation is three years old, but that's nothing when it comes to family history quests, and I finally have a definitive answer!
I'm now in contact with a cousin from a different branch. She too had a (better) copy of the LHS photo (1), which she knew was Our Man. But she had another picture, also known to be him (3). This photo is *identical* in setting to my one with the hat (2) - taken in the same room - and it's clearly the same man in that he is wearing the same uniform right down to the identical creases and puckers in the clothing - the photos can only have been have been taken minutes apart.
So - 1 and 3 are our man, and 2 and 3 are the same man, so 1 and 2 must, after all, be the same man!
Case closed  :)
Title: Re: Two photos - is this the same man?
Post by: bugle boy on Friday 27 September 13 21:03 BST (UK)
hi just a thought  why not photocopy the picture you posted of the 2 of them together and try and copy the hat onto the hatless one?might give you a better resemblance.
Title: Re: Two photos - is this the same man?
Post by: Finley 1 on Saturday 28 September 13 11:04 BST (UK)
guess what.......  it sure looks like the same man   ;D ;D ;D

xin
Title: Re: Two photos - is this the same man?
Post by: Finley 1 on Saturday 28 September 13 11:08 BST (UK)
ps


give to the restorers they will make a fine pic of him for you :)

xin
Title: Re: Two photos - is this the same man?
Post by: cupcake on Sunday 29 September 13 17:42 BST (UK)

I too, go with the majority in that I think it is the same man :). It's the nose and mouth.

cupcake
Title: Re: Two photos - is this the same man?
Post by: mare on Monday 30 September 13 09:15 BST (UK)
Good to see you have a confirmed result since 2010 and contact with another rellie  8)