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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: GrandadsSixpence on Tuesday 03 August 10 08:02 BST (UK)
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Seeking contact with anyone with knowledge or information about Thomas Theophilus Upright, aka Henri De Melvin, a popular music hall artiste in the mid-late 1800's. He was a 'double vocalist' and a female impersonator.
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Is this him in 1851 ???
1851 Census
Grape Vine,
Branscombe, Devon
HO107/
Edmund UPRIGHT, 41, Head, Mar, Lace Manufacturer, born Exeter
Jane, 38, Wife, Mar, Shopkeeper, born Barnscombe
Abel Brown, 15, Son, Unm, Tailor, born Exeter
THEOPHILUS THOMAS, 6, Son
Alfred Edmund, 2, Son
Charles William, 6, Son
Emma HARN, 23, Servant
Ann HUTCHINGS, 15, Servant
All other children born Branscombe
Trish :)
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1861 Census he is Thomas T Wright age 16 and working in his Mothers Drapers Shop.
RG9/1373/27/8
Marriage;
Thomas Theophilus UPRIGHT, September 1873, Hull, 9d 376
To Hannah STAVES
Appears to be one child BLANCHE born March 1873, Axminster 5b 16
Death;
Thomas T UPRIGHT, September 1911, Salford, 8d 85, Age 66
Birth;
Thomas Theophulis UPRIGHT, December 1844, Honiton, 10 126
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i can find Blanche in 1901 but am unable to find Thomas/Henri or Wife Hannah anywhere ::)
Hannah Uprights Death is Reg March 1898, Sculcoates, 9d 137
Interestingly Thomas/Henris Death is Reg under the 2 Names with same ref;
Henri De MELVIN, September 1911, Salford, 8d 85, Age 66
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Hi
a snippet from Google books
British music hall: an illustrated who's who from 1850 to the ...
Roy Busby - 1976 - 191 pages
Henri De Melvin. female impersonator who won wide acclaim on the halls during the ... of praise is also due to Mr Henri De Melvin who is decidedly one of the best female impersonators of the day. This gentleman neither by word. look nor ...
Marriages Sep 1873 Upright Thomas Theophilus Hull 9d 376
Deaths Sep 1911 Upright Thomas T 66 Salford 8d 85
1901 census RG13 3746 folio 52
23 Atkinson Street Manchester
Thomas Upright 57 Head Married Publican? Branscombe Devon
Annie Upright 52 Wife Married Wrexham Wales
plus 2 visitors
still with his family in Devon in 1861 working in the draper's shop.
Regards
Valda
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Hannah UPRIGHTs Death is Reg March 1898, Sculcoates, 9d 137, Age 61
I wonder who Annie is!
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Hi
1891 census RG12 3939 folio 80
7 Shoemakers shop St James Hull
Anna Upright 53 Head Married Boot and shoe shop Sheffield Yorkshire
Arthur W Staves 31 Son Single Shoemaker Hull Yorkshire
Blanch Upright 15 Daughter Bootshop assistant Hull Yorkshire
Henry B Staves 6 Grandson Hull Yorkshire
1881 census RG11 4755 folio
4 Louises Terrace Hull
Hannah Wright 44 Married Sheffield
Arthur W.S. Wright 20 Bootmaker Hull
Ellen S. Wright 10 Daughter Hull
Blanche U. Wright 5 Daughter Hull
plus 2 visitors
Births Jun 1861 STAVES Arthur Wilbert Sculcoates 9d 148
Births Mar 1869 Staves Ellen Hull 9d 198
Regards
Valda
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Excellent Valda :)
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Thanks Trish and Valda for the info. I have the census info and BMD's etc (Hannah Staves was my 3xgreat grandmother, she married Thomas in 1873 following the death of her first husband, and my 3xgt grandfather Edward Staves). I have recently discovered some information about his performances as Henri De Melvin via the bl.uk website (British Newspapers 1800-1900) and am really keen to see if there are any pictures of him anywhere. He died in 1911 in Salford. Could you send me the link to google books where you downloaded the snippet from? I would like to add that to the information I have. Many thanks, Wendy
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Hi
Google Books
http://books.google.co.uk/bkshp?hl=en-GB&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4HPEA_en-GBGB236GB236&tab=wp
It is still possible to buy the book but you should be able to get it from a library interloan
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0236400533/ref=nosim/schildnet0a
Other potential books he might appear in
http://home.clara.net/rfwilmut/musichll/mhbooks.html
http://www.booksandwriters.co.uk/writer/M/music-hall-books.asp
http://www.victorianweb.org/mt/bibliography2.html
The British Music Hall Society
http://www.music-hall-society.com/
Other useful websites
http://www.arthurlloyd.co.uk/
http://www.oldtimemusichall.net/index.htm
and maybe The Stage
https://archive.thestage.co.uk/Default/Skins/TheStage/Client.asp?Skin=TheStage&enter=true&AppName=2&AW=1280840046838
Regards
Valda
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Valda, that's fab, thanks - I have found and ordered a copy of the book and it has a picture of him in it Blimey I am so excited and can't wait for it to arrive!!!
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Hi
You'll have to post when you get the picture if you can.
Regards
Valda
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Surely will Valda, yee haaaaaa I knew there must be a picture out there somewhere, thanks so much for the google books post, I had googled him with no success before trying that! Wendy :-*
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Good news! the book has arrived but I am under strict orders from my other half NOT to open it until we get home tonight ARGHHH :'( the suspense is killing me ;D
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Go on, blow my mind and be the first women to actually do what there other half asked them to do ;D
Migky ;)
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I'm holding up well (being at work helps!) :o
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how do I post my picture, I am clicking on the attach a photograph or image but I am not getting the option to attach a file???
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Hi
Your file will be too large
http://www.rootschat.com/help/posting.php#add_attach
Regards
Valda
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Scan it, save it to your computer as jpeg, click on reply, click on attach a photo, you should get a list of all your saved stuff so select the correct one, click post and it should work.
Just make sure your jpeg file isn't too big - 500 kb is max I think
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when I click on attach a photo/image I am not getting the expanded menu where I choose the attachment
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Nor am I, there must be some problem on Rootschat at the moment ???
Oh no, the suspense is killing me!
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Phew, thought it was me being dim!! will have to try again later! Its a good picture of him in his costume, not a portrait as I had hoped but still treasured all the same.
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Hi
The attach seems ok
Regards
Valda
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No, still not doing anything for me ???
It's this board, just tried the attach facility on Deciphering and Recognition Help and that's OK - completely baffled
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nope, me neither :(
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Ahh, I wonder if it's because you've posted on Lookup Requests. Normal Lancs board is OK. Perhaps Valda can advise?
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I have posted it as a new topic on the main Lancashire page
Wend
x
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,473337.0.html
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Thanks, I spotted it.
I wonder if his job as a female impersonator contributed to their marital difficulties - it would be odd to see your husband "turn into" a woman
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especially if he kept nicking her dresses! Seriously though I think he might have married Hannah for her money, the rumour is that he ran off and left them penniless.
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Hi
Did he leave a will?
Regards
Valda
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I'm not sure if he did leave a will, I think he was in the Salford Union Workhouse when the census was taken in 1911, he died later that year.
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Hi
Doubtful then. Might be more interesting to see if his father left a will and whether his son was mentioned. It might give some indication of what his family thought of him,
Regards
Valda
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Yes, I will definitely look into that, thanks Valda
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Hi,
I keep reading this and just have to ask....... :) my husband's granddad was adopted by the family and no-one seemed to know why or where from. I can't believe that but they're all dead and gone now. I have his birth cert received today and it says Arthur Cecil Upright, born 1903 Tottenham and his father was Edmund Upright and it lists him as a 'Theatre Actor'. His mother is down as Dora Upright, formerly Cameron. I've looked up births and marriages for both of them and the 1901 census and can't find a thing.
I wondered if he used a stage name. At the moment I don't have any info at all apart from the birth cert. It struck me when I saw the name Upright in your posts.
Anyone able to help please?
Thanks so much for reading.
Sue
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Hi Sue,
What a problem you have!
When was he adopted?
Firstly have you looked at the 1911 Census for Arthur to check out the Household?
It looks to me he is down as Arthur Cecil Upright born c 1904 and is in Edmonton reg district, Middlesex;
Other Uprights in Edmonton in 1911 are;
Mary Anne, 65
Mrs Dorothy, 32
Ernest William, 25
Catherine Marjorie, 25
ARTHUR CECIL, 7
Albert Edgar, 3
Douglas Gordon, 2mths#
Could Dorothy be Dora?
There is a Death Reg for a EDMUND Luther Upright, September 1909, Edmonton, 3a 192, Age 54
Also a Douglas G Upright aged 0 in September 1911, Edmonton, 3a 264#
You need to check out the 1911 to see what his relationship is to the head of Household. And which of these Uprights are living together. (they could be 2 separate households)
Let us know the outcome please.
Trish :)
EDIT Ernest and Catherine could be a married couple as there is a Marriage March 1911 with a Ernest W Upright and a Catherine M Mould on the same page.
Yes, it is possible Edmund used a stage name as I cannot find him in previous census 1901/1891 but there are possibilities further back.
EDIT With a name like Cameron, Dora and Edmund may have married in Scotland or anywhere if they were both in the Acting Profession, so you would not find it on FreeBMD.
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Thank you Trish! That fills me with confidence!! ;D Seriously though, thanks very much for looking and replying.
I've had my son, daughter in law and granddaughter here for a few days so not had chance to have a proper search but just kicked them uot so I can start looking now. ::) Joking.
I wish the family were still here for me to ask but my in laws are all dead, just got my husband left and he's in a home with alzheimer's disease and my sister in law and she doesn't know anything. It's soo frustrating! The Arthur Cecil in Edmonton you found in the 1911 must be him, surely? There can't have been many Arthur Cecil Uprights in Edmonton!!! I have no idea what age he was when adopted by the Moorhouse family. Or how they did it, if it was done 'properly' or he was handed over so to speak.
I've looked on A****** and I found a Theodora Billing and her mother Elizabeth Cameron!!!! Elizabeth born 1840 - 1913 and Theodora 1877 in Sussex. I don't do complicated!!! I agree with you, I thought Theodora or Dora could be his mother. I will keep on looking, thanks so much. I'll look into getting the 1911 census.
I'll let you know if I find anything.
Sue
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Hi
Marriages Jun 1902
UPRIGHT Edmund Edmonton 3a 804
a possible spouse
Billing Dorothy Edmonton 3a 804
Births Dec 1854 Upright Edmund Luther Honiton 5b 17
1861 census RG9 1373 folio 27
Fone Street Colyton Devon
Edmund Upright 50 Head Married Lace Manufacturer Exeter Devon
Jane Upright 48 Wife Married Draper Branscombe Devon
Thomas T Upright 16 Son In the shop Branscombe Devon
Alfred E Upright 13 Son Grocer's apprentice Branscombe Devon
Charles W Upright 11 Son Shoemaker's apprentice Branscombe Devon
James B Upright 9 Son Branscombe Devon
Edmund L Upright 6 Son Branscomber Devon
Amelia B Upright 3 Daughter Colyton Devon
plus 1 lodger
Enumerated in Colyton as Luther with his parents on the 1871 census. Occupation was assistant presumably to his father who was now a postmaster. His birthplace on this census was given as Colyton.
The other Uprights on the 1911 census in the Edmonton area aren't necessarily connected. Ernest William and his wife do not seem to be connected.
18th March 1911 St Paul, Canonbury
Ernest William Upright 25 Bachelor Builder's Merchant's Manager 38 Alwyne Road Paul Maurice Upright Hotel Proprietor retired
Catherine Marjorie Mould 25 Spinster 38 Alwyne Road Frederic Gerald Mould Boat Dealer
Both signed
Witnesses John Willoughley and Edwin James White
Arthur Cecil Upright doesn't seem to be in a household with other Uprights on the (free search) on the 1911 census (he appears to be with three Moorhouses). Dorothy appears to be with Albert Edgar aged 3 but no other Uprights. She is aged 32 and confirms a birthplace of Sussex.
You need to see the actual images of the census returns (you cannot ask for lookups from the 1911 census because of copyright reasons - you must search yourself)
http://www.1911census.co.uk/
Adoption became a legal formal process only in 1927.
Births Dec 1907 UPRIGHT Albert Edgar Edmonton 3a 491
Albert married in Edmonton registration district in 1929.
Regards
Valda
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Hi,
Thank you so much for this. I thought I had to pay to search the 1911 census. I'm still new to this. Thanks also for the link. I think this might take me a while to solve, if ever.
Best wishes,
Sue
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Hi
You do have to pay to look at the actual images of the 1911 census which gives the full information. There is a free search which gives names and ages.
1901 census RG11 4616 folio ?02
3 Leadenhall Street Darlington Durham
Theodora Billing 23 Lodger Singer Prima Domia Hackham Sussex (Hailsham)
Marriages Mar 1912
Cooper Arthur J Upright Edmonton 3a 661
Upright Theodora Cooper Edmonton 3a 661
There is a Theodora Cooper's death registration in Debden registration district Suffolk in 1962 aged 84
Births Mar 1878
Billing Theodora Hailsham 2b 89
Theodora's father was a physician on the 1881 census. Her mother was Scottish. It looks like her parents married in Scotland as their first children were born there. 'Dora' was in a boarding school in Rottingdean on the 1891 census.
Regards
Valda
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Thanks ever so much again Valda. This is great. I will check it all out. I reckon Dora would be Theodora.
Thank you again, off to check this free 1911 census. It will come in very handy.
Best wishes,
Sue
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Hi Sue / Trish / Valda
By 1901 Thomas T Upright is living in Salford with wife (common law I think) Annie from Wrexham, Wales. He is still in Salford in 1911 where he died in the September. I have not come across anyone else in his family who was on the stage so I will double check what info I have on the Edmund Upright in my tree to see if I have an occupation or any census details which might give us a clue. Better still I can send you an invite to see my tree on ancestry if you message me at * and you can study what I've got so far.
Wendy
Moderator comment: e-mail address removed to prevent spamming and other abuse. Please use the personal message system to exchange e-mail addresses. Thank you
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in 1911 Edmond Bidgood Upright (Comedian) B1875 is living at 47a George St, Ryde, Isle of Wight, with wife and family
UPRIGHT, Edmond B Head Married age 36 b1875 Commedian b. Christchurch, Hants
UPRIGHT, Rebecca L wife Married 14 years b1876 Bethnal Green
Daughters: Violet EV, Rose L, May R
Sons: Edmond AB, Francis GM, George EM
Boarders: GAITLEY, Philip and FISHER, Charles (both musicians)
This Edmond Bidgood Upright was the son of Alfred Upright (younger brother to Thomas Theophilus Upright).
Hope that helps
Wendy
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That Edmund Bidgood Upright was my Grandfather...musician and comedien....Thomas Theophilus was my great uncle.....it is very exciting to find some one that could be a relative ...
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Edmund Bidgood was my husband's gt gt gt grandfather. His grandfather was Arthur Cecil, his great grandfather was Edmund Luther Upright and gt gt grandfather Edmund Bidgood.
Thomas Theophilus married Wendy's 3x gt grandmother - that is Wendy on the other posts in this thread.