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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: jonmalco on Sunday 01 August 10 20:58 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I am researching William Malcolm born 23rd Dec 1879 in Glasgow and died in 16 Apr 1946 in Glasgow.
I noticed on his wife's death record (Jeanie Ewing Robb 1879-1942) that he is listed as a headmaster. He was living at 2 Hillside Ave,Bearsden, Glasgow. He was living at the same address at the time of his death. On his death record he is listed as a retired school headmaster and I also found that he had a second wife, Eleanor Catherine Jane Heath. I have found he married her in 1945 but there is no image of it on ScotlandsPeople.
The main reason for this post is I was wondering if it is possible to find out which school he was headmaster of. Or whether there might be an obituary for him and where I would look for such an item.
Thanks
Jon
EDIT - Corrected birthdate
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Hi Jon
I found his death notice in the Glasgow Herald on 18 April, 1946, see http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=GGgVawPscysC&dat=19460418&printsec=frontpage
Not sure how this link will come up, you might have to scroll back to the issue in question. You will find the birth/marriage/deaths on the front page of the paper (col.2 centre).
Monica :)
Added: just checked the link above and it comes up on the right issue (phew!)
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Thanks for that. Found it.
Shame it did not give anymore information but it confirms the information that I knew.
Thanks again.
EDIT:- What would the MA after his name stand for?
Also how did you find this record? I didn't realise that Google stored newspapers.
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Hello
Master of Arts
:O)
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Coming at this another way....give me a moment till I transcribe....
Monica
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Hello
Master of Arts
:O)
Thanks for that. :-)
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From the Scotsman, 4 March 1933:
Glasgow Headmasters
Glasgow Corporation Education Committee yesterday approved the appointments of the following headmasters:
....Scotstoun School, William Malcolm, M.A., (Yoker School).
I would guess that he was leaving Yoker School for Scotstoun School, from the way the rest of the entries are written up.
Something to work on to check what records there may be :)
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Link for Google New Archives http://news.google.co.uk/archivesearch
Monica
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Thanks for all your help Monica ;D
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Link for Google New Archives http://news.google.co.uk/archivesearch
Monica
Even when I search for the information that you found on google I can't find it. ???
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Which info are you trying to find Jon?
The Scotsman info come via my subscription, not Google News.
Monica
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I tried to find the information from the Glasgow Herald by searching for William Malcolm but couldn't find it. Thought I should test it trying to find something I know is there.
The subscription you mention, can you let me know what site it is as it would be useful to have access to newspapers?
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The Glasgow Herald link on Google News I have saved as a direct link. As you have probably seen by now there are gaps in the issues they hold so I tend to search for known dates/events. I am not sure if it is set up to search by key word(s) though.
The main newspapers sites that are worth looking at are:
The Scotsman
Gale - The British Library collection databases: 17th & 18 Century and 19th Century collections
Google News Archives - seem to adding to it all the time and is international
The Times Archive
If I can give you a suggestion. Pop into your main libary first and enquire what services you can access remotely on line being a member of the Library. Many libraries nationwide have access to a number of these collections for their members.
Monica
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The Glasgow Herald link on Google News I have saved as a direct link. As you have probably seen by now there are gaps in the issues they hold so I tend to search for known dates/events. I am not sure if it is set up to search by key word(s) though.
Thanks again Monica.
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Using the method of browsing after the death date, I have found a record of his first wifes death in 1942 in the Glasgow Herald. :-)
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I see he was the Headmaster of Yoker School - I happen to have a copy of the book written by pupils of Yoker School in 1966 which covers the history of the area and the school, from memory it gives some information on headmasters etc through the years.
I can dig it out and type up any relevant information - the school building still exists today its about 5 mins from my house altough it is now a community centre - the old school closed in the 1970s and was replaced by a new building about half a mile away.
I can arrange some photographs if you would like
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That would be brilliant if you could manage to do that for me. :)
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Not a problem. I'll PM you the info once i dig it out (will probably be later today 02/08/2010) just about to turn in for the night - I'm up at 5 am :'(
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Once you get your head round it and how it is set up, it works ;D You do need to know what you are looking for and when but it's a great resource.
Monica
Added: Sorry Brian, missed your last posts. This has gathered a pace!
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I couldn't leave this until later so I have upset the dog by moving it out of the way from the front of my book cupboard!
Source - Both Sides of the Burn
The Story of Yoker - by Senior Pupils of Yoker Secondary School
First Published 1966 and reprinted 2000
Page 82 para 6
Mr William Malcolm, M.A., who had been deputy headmaster in Victoria Drive School now became headmaster of Yoker. Although he held he position for only half as long as Mr Walker did, none of his successors came near to his 14 years in office. It was during those years that an Advanced Divison, precursor of the modern secondary department, was added. (In June 1937 in accordance with the Corporation policy of centralisation, this department was removed to Bankhead school)
It had been in May 1926 that the city boundary had been advanced from Victoria Drive to Yoker Burn and the school came under the jurisdiction of Glasgow Education Authority.
In March 1933 Mr Malcolm was promoted to take charge of Scotstoun School.
Reading through the history of the school William Malcolm was the 3rd Headmaster of the School
I have a feeling there maybe some more information within the book or an unpublished follow up volume from 1990 that I have a copy of, leave it with me and I'll post back anything else I come across.
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Thanks for this information. I now know another school he was working at, Victoria Drive School.
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From the Virtual Mitchell Site
Here's a photograph of Victoria Drive School with the old building shown with the new moderne extension shown behind - the school closed in the late 1990's and has since been demolished.
http://www.mitchelllibrary.org/virtualmitchell/image.php?i=16482&r=2&t=4&x=1
Yoker School http://www.mitchelllibrary.org/virtualmitchell/image.php?i=10502&r=2&t=4&x=1
I will get some up-to-date pictures if the rain stops later tonight - the stone buildings still exist and are used as a community centre / training centre
and Scotstoun school - which still functions as a primary school
http://www.mitchelllibrary.org/virtualmitchell/image.php?i=16040&r=2&t=4&x=1
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Hope the dog has forgiven you now Brian for rousing it in mid-slumber ;)
Great to have the photos of the schools for William Malcolm.
Monica
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From the Virtual Mitchell Site
Here's a photograph of Victoria Drive School with the old building shown with the new moderne extension shown behind - the school closed in the late 1990's and has since been demolished.
http://www.mitchelllibrary.org/virtualmitchell/image.php?i=16482&r=2&t=4&x=1
Yoker School http://www.mitchelllibrary.org/virtualmitchell/image.php?i=10502&r=2&t=4&x=1
I will get some up-to-date pictures if the rain stops later tonight - the stone buildings still exist and are used as a community centre / training centre
and Scotstoun school - which still functions as a primary school
http://www.mitchelllibrary.org/virtualmitchell/image.php?i=16040&r=2&t=4&x=1
wow thanks for these photos that you have found. :-)
Jon
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Does anyone know the best way to find out more information about his time at these schools?
I have no photos of him and would love to find one.
By the way William is my step-fathers Grandfather.
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Jon, thinking about this for you earlier. I would have thought you need to investigate where archives are kept for the Glasgow Corporation Education Board. I would imagine some may be kept at the Mitchell Library but really not sure (and that's with a lot of my father's side being headmasters also but I know who they are!).
Monica
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Jon, Monica is correct - Special Archives section at the Mitchell Library has the school logs and some class photographs for the majority of schools in the Glasgow Area where records have survived.
I would volunteer to check the Mitchell on your behalf but having just started a new job recently after 9 months unemployment, my time at the Mitchell is now limited to after working hours or on a Saturday - however the Special Archives only opens late on a Tuesday night with no productions after 4:30pm and is closed altogether on a Saturday except by prior arrangement.
The Mitchell may if asked nicely produce the required volumes to be viewed by arrangement - I am dropping them a note to see if they can do this for us, but it will be next Tuesday evening before I get a chance to go - already got commitments this week :(
And yes Monica I think the dog has forgiven me interrupting his sleep last night!
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Brian,
That would be great if you could. After finding out so much about him it would be great to see what he looked like.
Really appreciate it.
Jon
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Brian,
That would be great if you could. After finding out so much about him it would be great to see what he looked like.
Really appreciate it.
Jon
Leave it with me - no guarantees that they will have a picture but let's see what is available first.
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Jon,
My plans for tomorrow night have changed - so depending on whether I get a reply from the archivist I may very well be going to the Mitchell archives tomorrow night
Will keep you posted - and I'll get you an up-to-date photograph of the Yoker school buildings at some stage this week.
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Thanks for that Brian, I have my fingers crossed.
I noticed that both Jeanie, his first wife and William had Hillfoot Cemetery on their death notice in the paper. Is Hillfoot Cemetery now called New Kilpatrick cemetery?
How would I go about locating the grave and would anywhere record what is said on the gravestone?
EDIT :- Also how would I go about trying to see if William had a will?
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You would need to contact East Dunbartonshire Council - Cemeteries Department (Details below) who should be able to assist - not sure if they will charge, but I guess it depends on what information you can provide.
Again they should be able to advise whether or not a gravestone marks the grave.
**EDIT Hillfoot Cemetery is also known as New Kilpatrick
Contact Details
We strive to maintain all of our cemeteries to a high standard and our cemetery staff will assist with any queries you may have in a polite and friendly manner. We can also assist you in searching for title deeds, or lair numbers, at fees set by the Council.
Please phone 0141 574 5508 for cemetery enquiries, or email cemeteries[at][/blue]eastdunbarton.gov.uk (replace [at] with @)
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Thanks again Brian.
Anyone have any ideas about the will?
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The Will was next on my list!
Found this on the National Archives of Scotland Website www.nas.gov.uk (http://www.nas.gov.uk)
How to find testaments from 1902
From 1902, to search for the will and/or inventory of someone who died in Scotland or someone with Scottish connections who died outwith Scotland, you need to know:
- the person's name
- where they lived, and
- when they died.
There is an annual index of testaments, the Calendar of Confirmations.
From 1901 to 1959 it takes the form of printed or typed volumes and from 1960 it is in the form of microfiche cards.
The Calendar covers all of Scotland and gives details of the deceased, their place and date of death, and details of when and where their testament is recorded.
The index is available in the Historical Search Room and the Mitchell Library, Glasgow, holds copies up to 1936. From 1985-1996 there is a computer index available in the NAS search rooms.
Contact details for the NAS are available on their website - again I have found them to be pretty helpful in the past
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I think I read somewhere v. recently (and I can't remember where :P) that Scotlands People are about to extend Wills & Testaments past the current cut off of 1901, but if I remember correctly, up to 1925.
National Archives is your best bet as suggested by Brian given the year of William's death.
Monica
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Hi,
What is the easiest way to find out the names of the children that William had. I know of Joseph Vernon Malcolm born 1916 in Scotstoun. He is my step-father's father.
I used ScotlandsPeople to search for births in Scotstoun from 1906, their marriage date, to 1920 in Scotstoun and it came up with 3 names but you can't narrow it down by parents name or maiden name. So will I have to buy the other 2 certificates to know for sure?
Details are
1 1916 MALCOLM JOSEPH VERNON M SCOTSTOUN AND YOKER GLASGOW/LANARK 575/02 0064 No Image ORDER
2 1913 MALCOLM MARGARET RITCHI F SCOTSTOUN AND YOKER GLASGOW/LANARK 575/02 0364 No Image ORDER
3 1910 MALCOLM THOMAS M SCOTSTOUN AND YOKER GLASGOW/LANARK 575/02 0064 No Image ORDER
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Hi Jon
Re: the possible births you have listed, these are outwith the time frame to be viewed on the scotlandspeople website, the only way to get them is to order them from the site, or view them by visiting the scotlandspeople centre in Edinburgh, or the Strathclyde Genealogy Centre in Glasgow. I'm not sure where your based or if visiting any of the above is an option.
Occasionally people have looked up the odd certificate on behalf of other posters to these forums, might be worth asking, but your probably quicker ordering them direct.
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Got a reply regarding the burials.
"Thank you for your email regarding the burial lair of where Jeanie E Malcolm and William Malcolm are buried.
I can confirm that they are buried within Lair No.1120, Section D at New Kilpatrick Cemetery.
I won't know until next week if there is a headstone at this lair as the person who would do these checks is on annual leave.
Once I have this information I will pass this onto you. "
I am based in Northallerton in North Yorkshire.
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I am hoping that the headstone might give me information on sons/daughters. I presume they will charge to give me this information but I must say they were quick with the reply above.
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They don't always charge Jon - be hopeful :) I've had some great help in the past from these types of enquiries.
You say you have his death cert - don't suppose his death was reported by any son or daughter that you are not aware of?
It is hard to search for births in Scotland in this period. Unlike England (from 1911) where you can search by both family surname and mother's maiden name, no such indexes for Scotland for this period which is a pity.
Monica
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His death was reported by my step-father's father so no luck there.
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Another way of sometimes picking up on family names is through witnesses' names at marriages (trying everything here!). Have you got your step-father's father's wedding cert to see who shows as witnesses? He may not have married in Scotland which might therefore not help.
Monica
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That is a good point.
No I have not got that certificate. As far as I am aware he got married in Scotland.
Also there is the second marriage certificate for William when he got married in 1945. Don't have that one either.
Thanks for the idea.
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I think the current cut off for viewing marriages on line at Scotlands People may be 1934, after which date you have to order certs - it is the period that you are in which makes it more difficult due to privacy reasons.
Monica
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Got my thinking hat on ;D
Another (!) way of checking for children is to check for deaths where mother's maiden name may have been included in the indexes on Scotlands People. There is this death showing on SP:
1990 EVELYN JEAN WAT. MALCOLM - mother's maiden name ROBB - other surname HOUSTON, age 82 in STRATHAVEN, SOUTH LANARKSHIRE
The problem with the death indexes for women on SP is that two surnames are given, maiden name and married surname but you don't know until you look at the entry, which surname is which.
However, checking marriages there is this entry:
1935 ANDREW DAVID HOUSTON and EVELYN JEAN MALCOLM in HILLHEAD, GLASGOW/LANARK ref. 644/13 0560
As I thought, the cut off for viewing images for marriages in 1934 - this one is showing as needing to be ordered.
Monica
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That is very interesting as my step father remembers a Evelyn but not what the connection is to the family.
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Evelyn's birth is within the cut off date on SP, so you be able to view it on line there to confirm (I think it shows in Partick in 1908, which fits with the age at death showing on SP).
Monica
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Monica,
Just done that and I can confirm she has the same parents :-)
There must have been more children, as she was born in 1908 and my step fathers father (Joseph Vernon Malcolm) in 1916.
Thanks again Monica, you are a star :-)
Jon
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Given the period, there may be some gaps due to the war years?
I tried searching for WW1 papers for William but couldn't see any for him with a birth year near his. If you are lucky to find these, they often include full details of children's names and birth years which can be a big help for this period. However, many service papers were destroyed by a fire, so it's a matter of luck on finding these papers.
Monica
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I am doing a little dance around the room.
I have found his WW1 papers on Ancestry :-)
2 children are listed. Jospeh and Evelyn.
Right to try and work what these papers are telling me ....
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Still waiting to hear back from the archivist at the Mitchell re the school log books. They usually are pretty quick to respond. - Will keep you posted.
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Thanks Brian.
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That's great that you found the WW1 papers for him!
Which ones were they :P - couldn't see one with his birth year c. 1880. How was it indexed?
Monica
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Hi,
Seemed to be 2 papers. Some were duplicated.
On Ancestry it had it as
NAME:
William Malcolm
BIRTH:
abt 1880
MILITARY:
1915
RESIDENCE:
4 Victoria Drive, Scotstoun
Put a post http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=150824&st=0&gopid=1451465&#entry1451465 as I can't really understand them. Has links to images
Jon
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Ok, got them now - I searched for a William and Scotland and it has been indexed without a country.
Wow, that's great! From that, I would say it is likely there may have been no more living children other than Evelyn and Joseph perhaps, as only living children were shown on these documents. Not sure on wife Jeanie's age and whether there could have been any more children born to them after the War.
If you search Ancestry's WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920 database for William's medal card, just add the Regiment number from the papers you have found - 152422.
Let's see what comes back on the other post you have put up regarding the details from the service papers :)
Monica
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I noticed one of the sheets there was a reference to the Renfrewshire Education Board (probably William's employer), so apart from the Glasgow Corporation records might also be worthwhile checking within their archives for William (maybe early teaching days?). Boundaries have changed over the years.
Monica
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The two sets of service documents are not altogether duplicates, there are unique entries in each. You will have to go through both sets and then put together one complete set of documents I would imagine.
Monica
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Email from Mitchell Archive
I will call in tonight and see what the have.
Unfortunately we do not appear to hold any log books for the right time period for either Victoria Drive School or Yoker School. However, I have ordered out the log books for Scotstoun School which should hopefully give information on William Malcolm (ref D-ED7/276/1/2-3).
I have also ordered out the Glasgow Education department volumes of masters and mistresses (ref D-ED1/1/17/15-19) which may give information on him.
We do also hold teacher's record cards which give details of someone's career. These are arranged by date of leaving the service and are closed for 75 years from this date. We can have a chat tonight about when he left the service and can get relevant documents out if they fall outwith the 75 year closure period.
We are doing productions this evening (though won't be next week) so it is always a good idea to let us know that you're coming in and what you would like to see beforehand.
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Thanks for that Brian. Shame there is no information for Victoria Drive and Yoker School.
In 1942 he was still listed as a Headmaster but in 1946 he is listed as a retired Headmaster on his death record.
On his marriage record both he and his wife are listed as teachers in 1906. Also in the WW1 documents from 1915-1919 he is listed as a teacher.
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I've found another couple of bits from the Scotsman which bring a little more details to William:
Association of Directors of Education
At a meeting of Director of Education and Executive Officer under the various Educational Authorities of Scotland, held in Moray House, Edinburgh last night, it was agreed to form an Association of Directors of Education. Mr William Malcolm, M.A., Lanarkshire, was appointed Chairman and Mr James Kemp, Executive Officer Midlothian, Secretary.
18 Sept 1920
There is also a further reference on 8 June 1923, to William being the Director of Education for the Education Authority of Lanarkshire.
Monica
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They sound import roles.
How I would love to find a photo of him somewhere.
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The dates above fit with this reference:
....1919 all school boards were dissolved and Lanarkshire Education Authority took over responsibility for education throughout Lanarkshire.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airdrie,_North_Lanarkshire
Monica
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The photos are not going to come from the newpapers unfortunately. Newspapers at this time were heavy on text and little image. The Glasgow Herald issues that you have seen are a good example!
Monica
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Yes I see what you mean but hopefully somewhere in the records if he was the Director of Education then a photo may exist.
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I am the eternal optimist when it comes to finding something ;)
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Ok just finished typing up my notes from tonights visit.
Mitchell Library does not hold any records for Yoker and only has records for Victoria drive after 1938 well outside William's time at these establishments.
I reckon they may well be at the Renfrewshire archives as both these schools came under Renfrewshire Education board, before moving into Glasgow. This fits with Williams employer on the WW1 service record.
Can i attach the notes to a Pvt Message in either a word or pdf document?
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Not sure if you can attach Brian (haven't tried that sort of attachment). Perhaps if Jon sends you his email via PM you can send them to him this way.
Monica
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Brian,
Thanks for the wonderful document you did for me.
You noted a difference in the date of birth between his school records and the date I had given. I have double checked the date and I was wrong, 1879 is the correct year. Sorry for any confusion this caused.
Jon
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Glad to be of assistance Jon - although I cannot take the credit for spotting the incorrect date of birth, it was the archivist that spotted it after going through the print out I had taken from the forum posts.
No word back yet from Renfrewshire Archives, but if anything turns up from my enquiry I'll let you know.
PS - 4 Victoria Drive no longer exists so no photo opportunity :'(
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Jon/Monica
Just heard back from Paisley Archives - they do not hold any school log books for Yoker or Victoria Drive schools - any that survived would have gone to the Mitchell - but as we know, from my visit earlier in the week - these records do not exist.
However, they do hold the minutes of the Renfrewshire Education Board, and if William is mentioned then he will be indexed in the database.
I've got nothing on this weekend, so if I don't have a sore head tomorrow after a few beers tonight, I'll take a trip over to Paisley. Nothing ventured nothing gained and i's only a short ferry crossing and a 15 minute bus trip away!!
I'll drop you a note if anything turns up.
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Keep the paracetamol by the bed Brian ::)
Monica
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Brian,
That is very kind of you. I was looking up Jeanie Ewing a bit today and noticed that she was also a school teacher.
I spoke to my step-father and he believes that Evelyn was a teacher as well. But I have no evidence of this.
I feel I should try and find more out about his second wife. I also need to sort out trying to see if there is a record of his will.
It is a shame there are no records from the other schools. Oh how I wish to see what he looked like.
Jon
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Just back from an unfruitful visit to the Registrars - link to SP was down for male births.
However.
Your William Malcolm married Eleanor Catherine Jane Heath on the 21st April 1945. He was at the time as you're aware, a 65 year old widower. His occupation was given as, 'schoolmaster, retired'. At the time he was living at 2 Hillside Avenue Bearsden.
Witnesses were
1. J Vernon Malcolm of 26 Oronsay Crescent, Bearsden and
2. M Ross Rice of 196 Glasgow Road.
Eleanors parents were Frederick Boyer Heath (shipping clerk) and Margaret Jane Heath (M.S. Imley).
Apologies for neglecting the brides occ. and status of parents etc - I was in a rush.
Regards, Steve :)
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Steve,
Thanks for those details, they will help me.
Thanks
Jon
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Eleanors parents were Frederick Boyer Heath (shipping clerk) and Margaret Jane Heath (M.S. Imley).
Steve,
Does that mean that her maiden name was Imley?
Jon
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M.S. does mean as you think Jon - maiden surname.
Monica
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Strange I can't find a record of a Frederick Heath marrying an Imley.
EDIT:- Found it. It is Imlay not Imley.
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edit
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Thanks again for everyones help with this topic.
I am trying to find out some information on his son. Is it best to start a new topic?
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Hi,
I just realised that I had not looked up in the Glasgow Herald for William's second wedding.
It has her name, Eleanor Catherine Jane, but afterwards says (formerly of Dieppe). Which is in France as far as I am aware. It also names her parents as deceased and from Edinbrough.
Can I do anything to follow this French link anywhere?
Jon
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Hi Jon
I am a relative of Andrew David Houston (b. 1906) who married Evelyn Jean Watson Malcolm (b. 1908). She was the daughter of William Risk Malcolm, Schoolmaster and Jeanie Ewing Robb.
Andrew and Evelyn were married 1935. Andrew died 1994 in Strathaven, Lanarkshire. Evelyn died 1990 in the same place.
I haven't found much more detail than this about them but thought it might interest you.
Regards
Sharon