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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: kathy-9 on Saturday 31 July 10 20:02 BST (UK)
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Does anyone have any connections to the Pits before or from that time. I only have the names James Rya, married Eleanor ... who had a son John, 1965 -- married to Mary Bonar in 1898.
Dont quite know how to go about this search as it is coming up blank for me every time. Any onfo appreciated.
Kathy
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Sorry folks typo - John Ryan, 1865 onwards.
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Hi Kathy
Did John's marriage to Mary Bonar take place in Scotland? I can't see it on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
Have you got John and Mary in any Scottish census? The closest I can see is this entry in 1901, but ages of children don't fit with a 1898 marriage necessarily:
John Ryan 32 Mason's Labourer b. Ireland
Mary Ryan 34 b. Ireland
Theresa Ryan 8 b. Ireland
Mary Ryan 7 b. Ireland
Beatrice Ryan 5 b. Ireland
Katie Ryan 3 b. Ireland
John Ryan 6 months b. Glasgow
Address: 117 Maitland St, Milton Glasgow
I also can't see a Scottish birth for John on IGI at www.familysearch.org There are a couple of possibilites showing in Ireland for his birth but you would need his mother's maiden name to be able to confirm further. Did John die in Scotland?
Monica :)
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Kathy
Just putting up a link to the other post on the Stirlingshire board www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,471401.0.html (with great new photos added by Fergie!).
Answering my own question I think that I made on the other thread - but thought to do it here so you can keep replies to your original post all together.
Think it was James (not JOHN) Ryan who married Mary Bonar in 1898 which explains why I couldn't see any trace of them.
This is likely them following their 1898 marriage:
James Ryan 28, Coal Miner Hewer, b. Greenock
Mary Ryan 21 b. Rutherglen, Lanark
Eleanor Ryan 1 b. Cumbernauld, Dumbarton
John Ryan 5 months b. Uddingston, Lanark
Address: 5 Laidlaw St, Bothwell Lanarkshire
Monica
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A couple of slightly earlier census entries:
1881:
Elina Ryan 37 b. Ireland
Michael Ryan 19 b. Ireland
John Ryan 17 b. England
Patrick Ryan 15 b. England
James Ryan 18 b. Greenock
Anastisa Ryan 11 b. Greenock
Daniel Ryan 9 b. Gourock
Address: 1 Hopeton St, Inverkip Renfrewshire
1891:
Ellen Ryan 48, nurse b. Ireland
James Ryan 22, coal miner b. Greenock
Anastisca Ryan 20, Shirt Finisher b. Greenock
Daniel Ryan 13, hammerdriver b. Gourock, Renfrewshire
Julia Collenson 30, cousin b. Ireland
John Callinan 1 cousin b. Glasgow
Address: 114 Naburn St, Glasgow Govan
Monica
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James parents look to be John Ryan and Helen (and all its variants!) Dooley (lots of variants for this too..) Some of the children's births on IGI:
JAMES RINE Birth: 24 MAR 1868 Middle Or New Parish, Greenock, Renfrew
Parents: JOHN RINE and ELEANOR DOWLY
HANNAH STACEY RYAN Birth: 17 JUL 1870 Middle Or New Parish, Greenock, Renfrew
Parents:JOHN RYAN and ELLEN DOOLEY...interesting indexing on the name Anastatia ::)
DANIEL RION Birth: 25 FEB 1873 Inverkip, Renfrew
Parents: JOHN RION and HELEN DULEY
Likely this is how you will have to search for birth entries on Scotlands People if you want to view the birth certs - as you can see, huge variations on the spellings.
Any of the above birth certs should include date and place of parents' marriage. If in Ireland, it can give you some clues as to where the parents may have originated from.
Monica
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Yes Monica, the James Ryan of Monklands is the one./
Monica, thank you so much for helping me with this, I have spent ages and not got nearly so far. I need to ask you how you trace so easily!!
I gotta digest this lot now but will get back to you.
Have a great Sunday, Kathy
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Just one more for now! This looks a good possibility for Mary Bonar at home for 1881 (and you can see where all the names of James and Mary's children came from):
John Bonar 24, coal miner b. Old Monkland, Lanarkshire
Catherine Bonar 22 b. Baldenoch, Stirlingshire
Mary Bonar 1 b. Rutherglen
Robert Bonar 1 Month b. Rutherglen
Address: 21 Colliery Rows, Cambuslang
The 1898 marriage cert, if you haven't viewed it already, will let you confirm parents' names properly. I think, from a little bit I can see on line, that Mary's mother may have had a surname of Ferns?
Monica :)
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Here are
Mary Bonars details:
married 25november 1898 at Newton Cambuslang
to James Ryan,
Parents
John Bonar
Catherine Bonar (nee Ferns or Fearons)
John Ryan (dec)
Mary Dooley Gooley)??
This is as far as I got, John Ryan was proving a difficult fish to catch.
Again, thx for ALL your help, what a weekend lol. Best regards, Kathy
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Hi Kathy, if this is any help, I'm Mark Ryan, son of Robert Bonar Ryan. This post came as quite a shock - I've been trying to find out more about him for some time.
I would be interested to hear from you.
Mark Ryan
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Hi Mark
Welcome to RootsChat :)
By co-incidence, I've just heard from Kathy this morning via email. She is off on holiday at the moment (sunny and warm 8)). I am sure she will be in touch when she gets back. I will also let her know of your post today as she may not receive the notification via RootsChat of your post until she gets back home.
Monica
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Hi Monica, many thanks for your message, and thanks for your warm welcome to Roots Chat. I look forward to hearing from Kathy in the near future.
Kind regards
Mark Ryan
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Hi,
I have Catherine Bonar nee Ferns on my family tree. Her mother was Catherine Ferns and her stepfather was Charles O'Neil.On the census their name was sometimes recorded as Ferrand.Catherine's name was recorded as Brukin-I think -on an early census then changed to Ferns. I know this is not much help on the Ryan line but hope it helps with the Ferns.There is also someone researching the Bonar/Ryan line on ancestry message boards.
Best wishes
Karen
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Hi Karen, welcome to RootsChat too :)
I had to laugh with your post and the reference to Mary Bonar's mother's origins as it is exactly what Kathy and I have been emailing on this morning!
From what I have seen, agree with your comments regarding Catherine and her mother Catherine Ferrand (Ferns).
This was the birth entry I found for daughter Catherine:
CATHARINE FERRAND Birth: 25 JAN 1859 Baldernock, Stirling
Parents:CATHARINE FERRAND
And the 1861 census entry for her with maternal grandparents in Baldernock:
John Ferrand 61
Ann Ferrand 61
Catherine Ferrand 22, daughter
Ann Ferrand 18
William Ferrand 16
Sarah Mcclusky 16
Catherine Brukins 1, granddaughter b. Baldernock
Kathy's line is very much the Ryan line. Interesting post by her on here on the Ryans www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,471401.0.html
Monica :)
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Hi Karen,
Thanks for the message. This has all come as a bit of a shock to me! I'll have to delve into the ancestry message boards and see what I can discover!
In fact ... it's just become more of a shock, as my father grew up in Fallin - as referenced in the post from Monica just now.
I look forward to hearing from Kathy ... I think!
Many thanks to you all
Mark Ryan
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Mark, from the link I just posted, post #24 should be a great surprise ;)
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Wow! This comes as ... a shock!
I will need to check the picture with my Mum - my father had no contact with his family at all. Fallin was a "taboo" subject in our house!
However, I seem to recall mentions of Eleanor, Patrick, James and Anastasia when I was younger.
There are some other factors as well surrounding my father ... and his prompt departure from Fallin that I need to clarify with Mum.
My father passed away many years ago now. During his final days he talked with me quite a bit about his time there, and told me a few things that I've always wanted to know more about. It seemed that in his last hours he was desperate for me to make contact with his brothers and sisters, and others ... but it was a difficult time. He had suffered a series of strokes, was very confused etc., and and the issue was not addressed until recently.
In fact, I have a son named Jamie who is a slimline version of Robert. His naming was a coincidence - the relevance of which was explained to me at the time. Until that point in my life, my grandfather had not been mentioned.
I have two other daughters from a second marriage now, the youngest of which looks remarkably like Molly, the eldest like Eleanor. I also have a brother - Roger James, and a sister - Mary Bonar.
Enough of my babble. I cannot thank you enough for your help, and look forward to hearing from Kathy at some stage in the near future.
Kind regards
Mark Ryan
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Mark, now that you have made four posts, when Kathy gets back you can use the Private Messaging service (PMs) to progress your families :) She will be absolutely thrilled that you have found this post. Her line, as you can see from the other post, is from Robert's sister Anastacia.
Monica
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Many thanks. Sorry for all the posts! :)
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No need to apologise for your posts...that's what RootsChat is all about!
Monica
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Hi Monica and Mark,
Just a little update on the Ferns. John and Anne Ferrand were both from Donegal in Ireland. Some of their childrens names are recorded as Faran, and I think Farren or Farren was likely their name as that is very common in Donegal and I can't find any Ferrands in Donegal.Probably the accent when the Census officers came round.
Karen
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Karen, you just know that the surname Ferns is going to so mis-transcribed on records! This is where the use of wildcards on searches can be invaluable ;)
Are you connected to this line?
I was just wondering about the surname Brukins that young Catherine shows with in the 1861 census. Given her birth was illegitimate, likely the surname was for the reputed father. Checking the surname Brukins in the 1861 census brings up only only one household (apart from the entry for Catherine Brukins with her maternal grandparents in Baldernock)....so happens also in Baldernock ::)
Richard Brukins 51, agr. lab. b. Ireland
Christian Campbell 46 wife b. Baldernock
James Brukins 28, son agr. lab., b. Baldernock
Address: Balmore, Baldernock
Strong possibility that James above is the likely 'reputed father'....
As with Ferns, not sure what the surname Brukins was actually meant to be given there is only one whole family in the whole of Scotland with that surname in 1861....likely a mis-transcription of something else?
Monica
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1871 has James Brokins as Brookens, now married and with children:
James Brookens 38, Iron Mining Labourer b. Baldernock
Margaret Brookens 40 b. Campsie, Stirlingshire
John Crawford 16, step son, b. Campsie, Stirlingshire
Robert Brookens 11 b. Baldernock, Stirlingshire
Richard Brookens 8 b. Cadder, Lanarkshire
Janet Brookens 6 b. Cadder, Lanarkshire
James Brookens 3 b. Cadder, Lanarkshire
Address: No 1 Lochfauld, Cadder, Lanarkshire
All supposition on my part that James is likely father for Catherine Ferns/Brukins ;)
Monica
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Hi Monica,
My maiden name is Ferns. My gg grandfather was James Ferns, a brother of Catherine-the mother of Catherine Bonar. The Brukin name is interesting. It's hard to read in the original transcript of 1861 census. When I first read it I thought it might be Harkin-another Donegal name or even Brogan. Interesting that James Brooken lived in Lochfauld cottages because my gg grandfather's brother John also lived there. I presume they were miners' cottages, as he was a miner also.
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All circumstantial on the Brookins/Brekins side but I would say looks likely for potentially young Catherine's father.
James Brookens looks to have married in 1862, according to IGI, to a Margaret Blair (possibly a widow given the older step son showing in the household in 1871). There is a family tree for this line on Ancestry which I think you have access to. They have left Margaret's maiden name off, so just search under parents James Brookens and Margaret in Cadder.
Monica
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Hi Monica,
I did a little more digging on the brukins subject. I typed in Brookins in the Griffiths valuation and a couple of Richards and other names came up in Donegal -Moville Upper. Coincidentally,for a variety of reasons,this is the same area I'd already speculated that the Ferns' were from, so they may already have known each other.
Karen
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My word she goes awaya for a holdaiy and l;ook what hapapens!!! This is gurreat ppl just wonderful.
Gotta be really blessed to have such good friends here at Rootschat xxx
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Hi Mark
I am I believe your cousin Stasia (Anastasia), I am the daughter of your fathers sister Margaret. If I'm not mistakes you mother is named Olive and you are one of three children. I came to visit you once when we were children. Mum and I came with aunt Eleanor and her youngest child Edith. It would be great to catch up, I thought my Uncle Robert was a very hansom man and have a couple of photographs of him as a young man. I'm not sure about the family politics as i was born and grew up in the midlands visiting Fallin for holidays etc.
Stasia