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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Trees on Saturday 31 July 10 10:52 BST (UK)
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I am trying to verify a family story which I heard yesterday
Its a long story so I will try to just give the briefest pointers now
Letitia born St Helens Lancs 1889 married James Henry Green possibly in Butler Pa USA they had 3 children
She appears on the 1930 census for Pittsburgh Pa when she was A domestic and divorced
After that she seems to disappear but my contact tells me their family story is that Leticia was murdered however she doesn't know where or when
Can anyone suggest how I can find out more about this please.
I think a transcript of that 1930 census would be a good starting place and Can anyone tell me how to search for a death in the USA?
How can I access the record of the marriage?
Many thanks
Trees
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Not quite what you are looking for but perhaps some additional info on the children of Letitia. From the new format searches on http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=home
On that is a death showing for a James Henry Green, Jnr, son of JHG Snr and a Leticia Pye. Born 1920 in Butler PA. Died 07 Jun 1990 in New Bern, Craven, North Carolina, age 69, husband of Evelyn Shivey
The family in Butler Ward 4, Butler, Pennsylvania in 1920:
James H Green, breakman (railroad) 37 b. Pennsylvania
Leticia Green 30 b. England
Dorothy Green 8 months b. Pennsylvania
Monica
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Struggling to see that 1930 census entry you refer to Trees :-\
Leticia looks to have returned to England for a short trip, arriving on 13 Jan 1912, and then back to the US on 18 May 1912, she gives her mother's details as to where she is going (mother looks to have remarried given the different surname and living in Butler).
So, likely marriage for her with James Green between 1912-19, given we have baby Dorothy in the 1920 census entry?
Monica
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There's a lot of information on the family here: http://www.sthelens-connect.net/forums/index.php/topic/53334-ellard-family-edward-and-mary-ann/
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I found the 1930 census entry earlier on. She is listed as Lettie Green and has 2 children with her
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:P Thanks Shaun - missed her completely even with wiildcard! As you said, in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:
Lettie Green 38, b. England
Dorothy Green 11
James H Green 9
Monica
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There was a Letitia Green who died in May 1970 in Honesdale, Wayne, Pennsylvania. Her date of birth is given as 12 August 1889.
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Saw that one Shaun - also this one, in case age became economical over the years (source U.S. Social Security Death Index)
Letty GREEN Birth: 21 Jul 1893 State Where Number was Issued: Pennsylvania Death: Aug 1979
Both these possible entries are just in case there was no murder - lets hope!
Monica
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Gosh i popped out for a short time and look how wonderful you have all been I knew she had been back to visit her mother Mary Ann ELLARD nee Porter you may notice on the passenger list of the Celtic 18 may 1912 it states she is meeting her father by adoption Joseph Pye. This passenger list is the main reason for us believing she was born Letitia ELLARD and is on my tree,
Shaun that is an exact copy of what I have recieved yesterday its quite an amazing story isn't it
The death showing a birth in August 1889 looks good my Letitia Ellard was registared Sep qtr 1889 St Helens lancs. How can I find the cause of death to be able to be sure there was no murder?
Trees
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From that link provided by Shaun earlier, can see how the story of Leticia gets complicated. From what I have read, conclusions regarding Leticia's early years make sense :)
Monica
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Sorry Trees, I flounder with the US vital records! Hopefully someone can advice you on how to proceed for this.
Monica
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It all looks pretty solid to me too Since receiving the post I have been in contact with fellow family researchers on this line and one had followed Lettie's maternal grand parents parents (I have the ELLARDs way back). they were Francis and Letitia nee Weir who came to Lancashire from ireland about 1864 It looks like they had 8 children, five born in Lancs. So that was where the Letitia comes down from.
it looks like the family were in financial difficulty when the fatherEdward Ellard a postman was jailed for theft of a letter the wife and children would not have received any aid while he served his time in jail so poor Mary Ann must have thought she was giving Letitia a better chance of a good life by giving her up to the Pyes. I have yet to find a link between the Pye and Ellard families
I think at least 2 of the children were baptised Cof E(but its from patron submitted events on Family search) so I don't think we will find if they were god parents of the young Ellards
If anyone can check the Ellard and Pye marriages it would be interesting to see if any of the main players witnessed either marriage
Trees
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if she was murdered you'd expect it to be reported in the newspapers
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Just had another mail about the case with a good lead to a connection between the Pye and Ellards
If you are reading this Hello cousin R you clever detective :)
Trees
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There is a WW1 registration card for James Henry Green from Sept 1918 attesting in Butler. Aged 34, born 23 Sept 1883. Shows as already married to Leticia. There is a middle name for Leticia, I think Barber?
Monica
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Just registering an interest/intention to get involved here; no time yet but tomorrow......
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How intriguing family history can be. Looking forward to reading the outcome.
Lizzie
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Hi Greensleeves and Lizzie I think we have a good one here don't we? S and her cousin R have done an amazing job of detection on this so far it would be great to be able to add more for them
Now Monica Leticia's mother had a sister Leticia Barbara I wonder if our girl has been named after her Barber and Barbara are close unless of course Aunt Leticia was leticia barber and that has been mis read along the way I found her baptism as a patron submission on Family Search
I wonder if any one on the Lancs. board will be able to check that baptism it was St Thomas,Eccleston Near, Prescot, Lancashire, 7 May 1855
oh now I think the cousin R is fairly local to St Helens maybe he has already checked the Registers I'll ask S
I just love this past time too lizzie better than a detective novel
life was sometimes more amazing than fiction
Trees
(just found that Barber green make tar layers doubt there is any connection though)
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Cousin Ron told me that where Eddie and Mary Ellard lived there was this church that was the closest to their house...
Holy Trinity CE
He thinks that that is where the Ellards children were baptised. I live in Texas so I don't know...
The Baptism of Letitia Ellard would be there and it might tell the sponsors of the baptisms of the children who were most often family members...
I have no way of cking for any baptisms there...
Sharon the one that started this quest and I have been looking for Letitia's death for years and found nothing yet...
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Shaun they have checked the Honesdale death
S had an email
" The obituary for the Letitia Green in The Wayne Independent is for Miss Letitia Green, born in Honesdale, daughter of the late John and Teresa Dux Green"
so we can rule that one out shame it would have been good to think she wasn't murdered
Ooh Hi Sharon good to have you on Rooteschat I'm an addict ;D well I needn't write the last question
Baptim records in C of E registers very rarely if ever give the godparants names, unlike the RC records
Trees aka H
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Forgot to say this about Letitia's murder from my Gaunt Irene who told me this
She told me this way back in the mid 1960s and then her mouth shut tight.... she knew Letitia's children tho so she had to know more than she told me.... she was one to tell you so much then zip the mouth shut tight.
She would disown me if she was alive now as to what I have found out about the family secrets.
Or have a heart attack.
Sharon
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Boy if she had my tree she would have had to join the Carmelites ;D ;D
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;D - boring trees are no fun to research Trees are they!
St Thomas is not covered by www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html - or not that I can see :-\
Sharon, has anyone tried to find the marriage of son James Henry Green Jnr and Evelyn Shivey? If he was born in 1920, marriage maybe in the 1940s perhaps. Would help to narrow down the window as to possible death for mother Leticia if she showed as deceased on his marriage entry.
Monica
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Does the Mother appear on marriage entries in the States that would be so useful good thinking Monica
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Sometimes the mothers name appears on marriage records it depends on the time period and the state Finding a mention of the wedding will tell both parents names tho. Some states wanted more info that others. Each county in a state had different rules than others
Not tried to find James Green II marriage records but will ck on it.
Aunt Irene did join the convent then she ran away and hid in her mothers attic for 2 weeks She thought that being a nun ment praying all day long and there were people who came in and cleaned and cooked for the convent and when she found out that the new to be nuns did that she ran away She left the convent and went to work in the Bank in Butler Pa till she retired never married
I narrow down Letitia's death to after the census in 1930 to before the census in 1940 as she is not in it
Boring trees are not fun to research your right....
Cousin Ron said if no one can ck the Holy Trinity CE records he will do it when he goes over to St Helens...
I saw Barbara on James Henry Greens draft registriation but thought that it was wrong as there are 2 census's that show Letitia J and then Letitia L so I didn't know what to do or think so I didn't do anything to her records on it. It would make sense since her mothers sister's name was Letitia Barbara.... need to see her baptismal records to see what her middle name really was
Sharon
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Oh boy there had to be a pub involved somewhere didn't there
Francis PORTER (our Leticia's grand father) married a second time this time to a publican's widow Mary KAY she was a publican before they Married at 52 liverpool Rd Eccleston St Helens naturally being me with so many pubs already on the tree (we are over 60 now hic) I cant resist looking for this one.
Sharon I know you are wondering how the family could afford a servant in 1891 the answer is simple servants only cost a space then.
Servants in those times were not expensive they just needed bed and board not all even had clothing provided though most were given a day dress they were like boarders who paid with work rather than cash so don't be surprised to find a servant in the household, quite often they turn out to be a relation. With terribly overcrowded homes it was common practice to send younger daughters into service however poor, to free up living space. This did not only happen in the overcrowded cities either. Country cottages usually had no more than 2 bed rooms and families were as you know large so oldest daughters were kept to help with the chores and younger ones sent off into service one less mouth to feed and more room for the growing siblings! families like this one with young children welcomed extra help with open arms until all their sleeping space was taken up or until the children were more manageable age then a paying lodger or boarder was financially more attractive. You will notice in 1901 the servant has gone but they now have a boarder
Lesson over back to my pub crawl hic
Cheers
Trees
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I put a post on the Craven Co North Carolina message board re an obit for Letitia's son James Henry Green who died there last evening. His obit might tell something about his parents.
I did notice that back in 2002 I had posted his info on it but in 8 years I never got so much as reply to my post.
I really took a long look at the Ellis Island ship record of Letitia Pye's going home to there are 2 different people writtings on it.... one has Joseph Pye and the address in Butler Pa and befor it it has in another person's writting Relative through something adopted father.... cannot read the something word.
Anyone want to try and figure it out? The entry is line 5 Hopefully the attach file is working right and I did it correctly Someone let me know if it didn't go through and will reattach it
I only was able to get the 2nd page on the Ellis Island website not the first one.
Sharon
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I think is shows: Father and then Relative through adoption next to Joseph Pye's name.
Monica
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Possible obituary reference for James Henry Junior:
Green James Henry, Jr. - 6/8/1990 SJ (quite a gap if he died 7 June from the SSDI index date)
http://newbern.cpclib.org/research/obituary.html and then so search on the index.
Monica
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Thanks Monica
I got the info needed for James's obit and will send for it Hadn't gotten to that website last night Have letter and 2 dollars in mail tomorrow.
Don't see a gap tho re his death and then obit He died 7 June and the obit was in paper 8 June so that was 1 day later.
I thought I was reading that also but didn't know for sure.... there is something else on the page about dist Count Pittsburgh Penn Dec 22 then something else after that but when I went back to Ellis Island site and tried to get the page up it shows that there is no page ... they never heard of Letitia Pye in 1912 Once I can get the page up again I will see what is written after Dec 22 and then go on the rootsweb list for Pittsburgh area and see what and if anyone can tell me what to do to find out what that was about
Sharon
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;D Sorry Sharon - the difference in styles for American and English dates always gets me! I am reading it as 6 August (6/8) rather than the American way.
Monica
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I figured that one out ;D
I was doing that also when I work on the UK lines and went to the US lines and forgot to do the dates as American way ... I even had it down in my trees like that and had to go and change them to like 8 Jan 1834 instead of 8 1 1834 or 1 8 1834 so everyone could understand the dates.
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Good evening ladies Sorry to be missing today should be able to join in a bit now.
H
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Thanks to the Lancashire board it looks like the pub was The STAR and it looks like they only kept it a short time as William Kay was a Watch movement maker in 1861 at a different address and she has married and moved on in 1884. So I can stop crawling round the pub and get back to the family in question
H
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Has anyone remember that ETO was a descendant of the PYE family ??? Surely there isn't a tie up there I'll take a detour along that family for a little while in Case
H
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Sorry but I live in Texas and never heard of ETO
What or who is that?
Sounds interesting
Sharon
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The biggest rogue that walked the world his story starts when he married and possibly murdered a great aunt of mine he rampaged through Australia, NZ and the USA committing crime and killing a few folk on the way see http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,378617.0.html
Its a long but fantastic story if you get time do read it its better than a novel and several Chatters were involved in finding newspapers and records in the three main countries mentioned.
This one is getting as good but ETO was Edwin Turner Osbaldeston sometimes known as Edwin Charles Pye Turner Osbaldeston as his story went on so the initials got more his great grandfather was a Charles PYE!
I think Joseph Pye in this hunt was the son of James and Mary Pye from Whiston Lancs in 1830 Have you taken that line any further back?
H
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Joseph Pye is the son of James Pye and Mary from Whiston Lancs in 1830
I have James Pye back to a James Pye 1811-1886 mother also Mary 1811 - 1885
I have more info on Joe Pye's family however I changed computers and we lost some stuff in the moving of files over to this new now old one as this one is a Vista I have to look in some of my boxes to find the info. When found will post
I will read about ETO later tonight as I have cats and dogs to feed the chicken people to put up and a few other things to do befor I can allow myself to get back on computer.
I am now 100% certain that Letitia is Letitia Ellard that I have put her down in Ancestry as Letitia Ellard Pye on her page and have the Pyes as adopted parents and her real parents down in the tree
Have her "adoption" down in facts and trip to St Helens to see her mother and back home to her adopted father Now when anyone else comes looking for info on the Ellards they will see that Letitia Ellard didn't die or "poof the faries got her" idea..... Now if we can just find out if she was murdered as Aunt Irene said and the circumstances surrounding that. Sent off for James Henry Green's obit so hopefully next week I will get it back.
Sharon
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I think there is little doubt that she is Letitia Ellard next question is Why did they go/come to America? I can see there were glass factories in Butler and St Helens was that the attration to butler in particular?
Had Elizabeth's family gone before Joseph and Elizabeth or did they come to join them?
Then the biggy how do we find out about her sad end
What happened to Joseph he seems to just disappear too would it be worth following him a bit? Why cant we find any newspaper references? Would the divorce have been mentioned are there any records about that?
Cant wait for James Henry's obit to arrive let's hope it has a few answers.
Trees with many questiond and few ideas???
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It was Plate glass workers needed in the US that was the reason my lines came here from St Helens.
In the late 1890s there were only 6 Plate glass factories in the US. We had other glass factories here befor that but they were the ones that did the bottles and plates ect... back in the 1880s skilled plate glass workers were needed here in the US and those men came from England, France and Belgian mainly. Their passage was paid to come over here... In the UK if a glass worker left for glass work somewhere else they had to pay a fee to get out of their job there... The US glass co's built houses for the workers who came here... When the plate glass factory opened in Butler Pa then the Holdens Pye's and the Naylors went there to work ... My grandfather was the last of the line to work in the Franklin Glass Factory in Butler. Joe Naylor worked as the accountant and first aid person. He was creidited with saving the life of one of the men who worked there when he was severly cut by glass. I remember going there when I was a little girl with my mother to see him. The housing that the Co built evidently was built to last as when we lived in Butler we lived in one of the row houses that they built...
My G-g-grandfather James Holden came over first in the late 1880s.... He went to Irwin Pa to work in the glass factory there... then in 1891 he sent for my G-G-Grandmother Mary and children James Peter & Kate.... You can find Mary Holden in the 1891 census with the 3 children down as a widow in that census... guess she felt like one with James being so far away...
They came over in June of 1891. They lived in Irwin Pa and James and son James worked in Jeanette Pa glass factory.
Then in 1892 as we know Joe Pye and Elizabeth and Letitia came over with my G-grandfather Peter Naylor who was the nephew of Mary Holden and cousin to James Peter Kate and Elizabeth. Peter Naylor was a plate glass maker....
In 1896 Peter Naylor and his cousin Kate Holden went back to the UK to we think get his mother Alice Cook formerly Naylor nee Garvey to bring over to Pennsylvania... In May of 1897 Peter Naylor and his cousin Kate Holden were married.... whole nother story there...
Peter's brother James Naylor Garvey and his sister Ann Aspinall nee Naylor- Garvey had come to Pennsylvania in Oct of 1889 James was a glass blower....as was Ann's husband [ You will find James Naylor in the UK with wife and children down as James Garvey as James was the first of his mother Alice Cook formerly Naylor nee Garvey many woopsies.... when James and family came to the US they went on the boat as Garvey and lived in Pennsylvania as Naylors.... whole nother story there also So everyone came to Pennsylvania to join family
So it was glass making that brought the families to Pennsylvania....
Joseph Pye died in 1912 His wife Elizabeth died in 1917.
Newspapers in Pa Well there are some online and then there are not any on line... they are coming online slowly.... it depends on the area in Pa... Pennsylvania is not easy to search especially when you don't live there anymore.... Google News archives does have papers from Pittsburgh online its just what yrs they have put so far and what is in them... its hard to search for obits and mentions of deaths and divorces... the rootsweb mailing list for the county where Pittsburgh is Allegheney is in the process of doing that now with deaths obits marriages and divorces ect... so far on it I have found my one G-g-grandmothers sister who I have been looking for years obit and married name and found a whole new branch of her family My grandmother's parents marriage who I never thought I would ever find and mentions of her lines in Beaver Co Pennsylvania... a few marriages ect...BUT nothing on Letitia Green nee Ellard-Pye.... just the 1930 census for her... The divorce would have been in the Pittsburgh papers I would think... unless it happen in Butler then the Butler Eagle is not on line.
Was Letitia Green in the 1940 census I have no idea as that census is not online yet... I search the google archives alot with her name but its always nothing found. I do searches for murders in Pittsburgh Pa thinking that it might be in one of those old Murder magazines nothing comes up... as more and more info comes up on the net maybe it will show up one day... if someone from her son's family lines goes looking for their fathers lines and find me they might know what happen If Aunt Irene was not so closed mouth about the family's dirty laundry that I found then we wouldn't be looking for who what and when we would know... That poor woman would have a heart attack if she had know what I have found out on the family so far...
I sure hope James obit shows something to go on. All my notes show from talking to Aunt Irene back in the late 60s say is murdered in pa nothing more
Sharon
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Sharon you are wonderful such an interesting and full reply So my guess about the glass connection was on the button and you have clarified that well.
I hope if we sit tight sooner or later something will appear on line I wonder if they would look into the archive if we asked the Butler Newspaper directly about the divorce or a suspected murder they would take pity and look for us. If we are lucky and catch them on a poor news day they may do a search do you think or would they charge mighty pence for a search?Are old copies of newspapers kept in local libraries in the States here we would find them on film in the local RO.
I am sure we would all like to know the truth of poor Letitia's end even though she isn't direct line its a very interesting story.
I am wondering why Letitia put her nearest relative as her mother not her father when she came over in 1912 it is more usual to consider the father as next of kin rather than mother isn't it? The family were together in 1911 and Edward didn't die until 1930
Surely one of the family would have remembered a lady visiting from the States in 1912 I would have thought such a visit would have been most memorable and unusual her youngest sibling would have been 11 so the others surely asked "who " the visitor was.
H
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Sharon, do you know what happened to daughter Dorothy? I see it is likely she never married from comments elsewhere.
Monica
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No I have no idea what happen to Dorothy Green I know she lived in Pa cause there was a address for her in Aunt Irene's address book but that was years ago... Its 2 more years befor the 1940 census goes online on Ancestry to see what happen to her and her brother.
I did this morning call the Butler Co Library to see what they could tell me... Luanne who is head genealogy person there did some cking for me over the phone and told me there was nothing in the index for the Butler Eagle News paper about Letitia Green. She told me to send to New Castle for a search for 10 years 1930 1940 span for a death for Letitia Green. [there is no obit index in the library in Pittsburgh to ck through ].. that will cost me around 30 some dollars so I will download the paper work for that and send it in ... I will get that out and in mail tomorrow. Depending on the person doing the searching for the death certificate sometimes they can't find anything but then you ask for another search and bingo they find it... NC is know for this.
Christine who Letita would have been her G-aunt said that she was sorta iffy about asking any family members questions about if they knew about Letitia The family didn't even know that Eddie Ellard went to jail for 18 months for stealing a postal letter... that was another suprise to Christine.
We will just have to wait and see if she did ask around about any storys re Letitia. She might have just been a family secret and only those close to her parents every really knew what happen to her taking her to the grave with them.
That was in 1912 that she went there and she might not have stayed with the Ellard family as there were plenty of Holdens and Pyes and Naylors there she could have stayed with. Thats a story I would love to know what happen when she went to visit her mother? She never went back it seems and did they ever write to one another about their lives?
Genealogy is just not names births deaths marriages and census findings it's lives of people and trying to sort out why things happen to them and made them what they turned out to be. Sometimes we find out and sometimes we don't.
Maybe we will and maybe we won't just have to wait
Sharon
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UPDATE Got obit for James Henry Green Jr today
Well I got James's obit in the mail today.
Sun Journal New Bern SC Friday 8 June 1990 A4
James Henry Green Jr
James Henry Green Jr of 2703 Trent Road died Thursday at his residence
Funeral is set for 11 am Monday at Saint Paul's Catholic Church Country Club Road with the Father Martin Fitzgerald officiating
Entombment willbe in Greenleaf Memorial Park
He is survivied by his wife Evelyn S Green one foster brother Donald E Steffy of Duquesne Pa and one siser Dorothy Gatto of New Bern
The family will receive friends from 7-9 pm Saturday at Pollock-Wells and Best Funeral Home There will be a rosary at 730pm Sunday at the funeral home followed by visitation until 9 pm
In lieu of flowers memorials may be made to Craven Country Home Health Hospice PO Box 1398 New Bern NC 28560 or to Saint Paul's Catholic Church
Well it looks like his sister Dorothy married a man named Gatto and lived in New Bern NC.... but this foster brother Donald E Steffy of Duquesne Pa is a supprise and I am wondering if Letitia remarried after the 1930 census. I looked on Ancestry for SS index to see if Dorothy died but no Dorothy Gatto in New Bern NC is listed there are 2 others that did die tho 1 in Pa and 1 in Texas Will see about sending or finding the obits for them either at a library or online.
Name: Dorothy E. Gatto
SSN:
Last Residence: 15690 Vandergrift, Westmoreland, Pennsylvania, United States of America
Born: 4 Mar 1919
Died: 17 Jun 2000
State (Year) SSN issued: Pennsylvania (Before 1951)
Name: Dorothy A. Gatto
SSN:
Last Residence: 78639 Kingsland, Llano, Texas
Born: 11 Apr 1919
Died: 2 Aug 2006
State (Year) SSN issued: Pennsylvania (Before 1951
I went on the White pages and found Evelyn Green in New Bern NC phone number and called the number however no one answered so I left message....
Stay tune for part 2 I wonder if I will get a call back....don't know where I got the nerve to do that one never did it befor....
Sharon
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Sharon
Wow, things are developing. Where, only time will tell....
That obit for James Jnr. has certainly thrown up a number of scenarios.
As for calling and where you got the courage to do so, it's called determination (A.K.A. obsession!). Been there with you on that one so undertand how you feel ;D
Monica
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A possible for Donald Steffy on SSDI with the reference to Duquesne in James Jnr's obit:
Birth: 3 Mar 1923
Death Date: 17 Aug 1993
Duquesne, Allegheny, Pennsylvania
Possible for this Donald in 1930 in Duquesne - everyone born in PA:
James B Steffy 43, conductor (railroad)
Mable Steffy 41
Edna Steffy 22
J Roy Steffy 21
Claire E Steffy 19
Donald Steffy 7
Foster brother is an odd use of words. Has this a different meaning in the US? Here in the UK would imply a child fostered (not adopted and not a half brother where a parent had remarried and had more children with a new partner). Just not heard the expression of someone being a foster brother before.
Monica
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Monica
Thanks for that find on Donald Steffy I posted his info from the obit on the Rootsweb Steffy surname board to see if anyone sees it and replys.
Foster child is the same thing here... a child taken in by a family and they raise the child. So I wonder when Letitia died both James and Dorothy were taken in by the State and put in foster care or else this
James's father James worked for the railroad as a breakman on a train I would imagine and this James B Steffy is a conductor on the railroad... I wonder if James Stuffy knew James sr and took his kids in when Letty died? They could have grown up togeather and James and Donalds friendship was like brothers maybe?
Well it does give me something to work on finding Donalds obit. Duquesene Pa is part of Pittsburgh Pa like a suburb of the city..there are lots of little places like that all around Pittsburgh... as Pittsburgh grew it incorporated the little towns into it however they retained their origional names...
Will look to see if Donalds obit is online or where I go to get it.
Thanks for the find
Sharon
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Lost am I with the 20th C US databases :P But could this help with Dorothy Green Gatto perhaps:
Dorothy A Gatto
Birth Date: 11 Apr 1919 [11 Apr 1921]
Address: New Bern Twrs 2m, New Bern, NC, 28560
[PO Box 2593, Granite Shls, TX, 78654-2678 (1995)]
[100 Windwood Dr Apt 16, Kingsland, TX, 78639-9702 (1995)]
source: U.S. Public Records Index, Volume 1
Which then fits with one of the Dorothy's you found on SSDI:
Name: Dorothy A. Gatto
SSN:
Last Residence: 78639 Kingsland, Llano, Texas
Born: 11 Apr 1919
Died: 2 Aug 2006
State (Year) SSN issued: Pennsylvania (Before 1951
It's the New Bern reference on the first set of details that caught my eye, connecting back to James Jnr's obit.
Monica
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Re the foster brother ref. You are right, I may be reading it the wrong way round that the Greens took in Donald Steffy but could well be that the Steffys took in the two Green children in the event that something had happened to Leticia...which is what we are trying to determine!
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Just found all this news as I was checking the mail to shut down for the night unfortunately I have an early start in the morning can't wait to get five mins to look through it all many thanks both for your hard work
Trees
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well the computer room looks like a toronato hit it.... I went looking in my plastic boxes and found the Holden box.... found my G-aunt Irene's stuff and in it was her address pages... on the one page is the following
Dorothy A Gatto
2-M-New Bern Towers
New Bern NC 28560
down a few names is this
Mrs and Mrs James Green
2703 Trent Road
New Bern NC 28562
Same address as in the obit... I haven't looked at that suff in years... forgot about it till I was outside replanting my little lemon tree that the dogs dug up abit ago .... [its outside the yard now]
So Dorothy A Gatto would be the one. Kingsland Texas is about 2-3 hrs away from me...
Off to that rootsweb message board to see what they can tell me about getting her obit.
Thanks again for the new info on Dorothy...
Looks like Lettie is on the move again...lets hope she gets to where she is going this time...
Sharon
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GAunt Irene's address book is coming in handy! That's great to be able to confirm :)
No substance to this as yet but there are a couple of telephone directory entries as follows:
Gatto Peter (Dorothy) lab. h803 Soles - shown in the 1940 and 1941 directory for Polk's Mckeesport (allegheny County, Pa.)
Would this mean that Dorothy as show in brackets was wife's name do you think?
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Yes that would be Peter wife [Dorothy] If the husband is dead then it has the wifes name and widow of so and so in them at least the older ones do. I wonder if that was her husbands name? I am trying to find out where to get an obit for her in Texas... Texas I found out wants 20 dollars for a death certificate.... thats alot for one.
I found out where to get the obit for Donald I need to go to
McKeesport Heritage Center http://www.mckeesportheritage.org/ They have the McKeesport Daily News from it's start
I wonder if they would have anything on Letitia I will ask about her also...
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Fingers crossed on all - lots of avenues there.
Off to bed now - way past bewitching hour here :)
Monica
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Have a good nights rest
Thank you for all your help
Appriciate it alot
Sharon
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James Green's widow Evelyn called me tonight... my phone call paid off and we talked for 2 hrs.... nice sweet lady.
Letitia wanted her story told and I think we now have it...
She was not murdered as Aunt Irene told me... I do have proof of that with my notes from the mid 1960s that I will scan and put on this message board to show that was what she told me...Why she said that I don't know ecept that maybe that was what she [Irene] thought happen when Letitia got the stroke and died from it at age 45 cause she was a single mother trying to raise 2 children and to her James Henry Green Sr was the murderer. Who knows....
Letty died in 1934 in Pittsburgh she had a stroke and laid for 10 days before she died Evelyn told me. They don't know where she was buried as it was a public grave as there was no money. She was a domestic in a private home and also baked pies for the big hotels in Pittsburgh to help keep the family togeather. when James was 10 he was hit by a car and the fender cut his face really bad and he was weeks in hospital and had over 100 stitches in his face there was a settlement of over 10,000 dollars paid out to him but the money disappeared...
She divorced James Green because he drank and was an alcholic... When she died the kids were placed in the foster care system and lived with a Miss or Mrs Barbara Deedson [sp] for a yr till she got sick and couldn't care for them She took foster kids in to her house and took care of them... She was a neighbor of the Steffys and she asked them to take care of them as James was good friends with their son Donald. Donald and James remained friends for life... James also called Donald's mother Mother as he was very close to her.
Evidently Letitia told her children something of the Ellards but she said that James knew the name but not how he knew it... Letitia is down on his birth certificate as Letitia Pye. James Green sr died someime after 1945 as that was the last time they saw him He really never came around after they divorced He was an alcholic to the end His home was the bars She did say they found him one time and gave him clothes and money and told him they would be back next week When they came back next week he was gone The bartender told them that the minute they left he was out the door to sell the clothes they gave him and drank all the money and that was the last time they ever saw him. No idea when he died or where he was buried at. He told them that he had a brother and a uncle only and when they went back to Butler one time they met some of his family and found out he had 11 other siblings... Guess he was the black sheep of the family.
Dorothy Letitia's daughter went into service when she turned 16 as that age back then 16 was considered being out of foster care and you took care of yourself She worked for a Jewish family in Pittsburgh and met her first husband through them He was Edwin Richardson. They had a daughter and son The son died in 1995 or 94 96 in Pittsburgh Pa He was married and had 3 daughters. He was a nurse and helped to take care of Donald Seffy when he was dying of stomach cancer. Her daughter Dorothy also is alive and lives in Pennsylvania Edwin's mother was a Judge in Pennsylvania. Dorothy married 2 more times the last time to Paul Gatto. She died in Texas in 2006 at her granddaughters home in Plano Texas.
End of part 1 you are only allowed 5500 characters per post
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Part 2 of my previous post
Dorothy Green Gatto's obit
I found her obit on Ancestry of all places
Name: Dorothy Green Gatto Other relation: Dorothy Richards Birth: abt 1919 Death: 08/02/2006 Publication: 22 Aug 2006 in New Bern, NC, Us
Locations Mentioned in Obituary: New Bern
Dallas, TX
Plano, TX
Kingsland, TX
McKeesport, PA
Butler, PA
Obituaries
August 22,2006
SUN JOURNAL STAFF
Dorothy Green Gatto
KINGSLAND, Texas ??? Dorothy Green Gatto, 87, formerly of New Bern, died Wednesday, Aug. 2, 2006, at the home of her granddaughter in Plano, Texas.
Born in Butler, Pa., she was employed by Montgomery Ward from 1973 to 1981. She lived in New Bern until 1994, when she moved to Texas to be with her daughter and granddaughter.
A memorial service will be held at a later date.
She is survived by one daughter, Dorothy Richards of McKeesport, Pa.; four grandchildren; and one great-grandchild.
Arrangements by Heritage Cremation Service, Dallas, Texas.
Dorothy and Evelyn were very good friends.... when Donald Seffy got cancer he called Evelyn to come and help take care of him so she and Dorothy went to Pennsylvania and took care of him till they had to go back to NC as Donald didn't have anyone to take care of him so they had to put him in a nursing home and then they got Dorothys son Edwin to come to the nursing home every day to ck on him and shave him ect... Dorothy was married 3 times. evelyn didn't say what her 2nd husbands name was
Evelyn said that neither James /Jim as she called him or Dorothy never talked much about their childhood... she said when Jim and her were married they would go up to Butler to visit my GGrandmother Kate Naylor who Jim knowing that she was not his grandmother still called her granny twice a yr till she died. She said Jim always wanted to know if G-Granny had any pictures of his mother as he never had one. She said that Letitia was a good woman and Jim loved his mother dearly. Evelyn and Jim never did have any children but she is in close contact with Dorothy's daughter Dorothy and will call her tomorrow and tell her of my call to her.
Evelyn married again in 2000 and still lives in New Bern NC She said she is blessed to have had 2 marriages with good men.
So thats it with Letitia Ellard Pye Green... her story is told now and I think her spirit can rest. I guess she got tired of me looking for her murder all these and there wasn't one... so she decided to let me know what happen in the end.
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Well . I have read this all with great interest. Thank you for Posting. Good results.
I see how the fact that she was thought to have been murdered came about..
God bless her and lets hope she has come back to enjoy a wonderful new life.
xin
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Sharon, I am so happy for you that you have been able to find the true story of Leticia and her descendants. Her life sounds like it was a hard life, for all the reasons mentioned. To have had a savage ending would have been beyond the imagination. As it is, her ending is also incredibly sad after everything that had happened.
It is remarkable how close James her son became to the Steffy family, which shows how kind they must have been to him in the years following Leticia's sudden death.
Thank you for sharing all of this with us :)
Monica
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Monica can I add my thanks to you for your hard work on this It is great to know that there was not the violent end we feared.
Sharon how wonderful to find a new relation to talk to.
Thank you and Ron for bringing all this to my attention do keep in touch. If you want any of the Ellard history do look at our web site and ask if I can help along the way
Its been great meeting you
Trees
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I want to thank everyone on this board that helped to contributed ideas and information found to Letitia's story.
Without the help and new set of eyes and ideas it would have been harder to find things and end Letitia's story.
You guys have been a tremendous help and I think that Letitia had a big hand in this also.
I am going to miss you guys :'(
Take care and God Bless
Sharon
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Don't miss us Sharon let us share any other research you are persuing ;D or just come into the lighterside board for a moment of relaxation :)