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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: morrowcoulterclan on Saturday 31 July 10 01:44 BST (UK)
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My father John Morrow was b.1911....... but no birth cert seems to exist but it does state this on his driving license issued during ww2. He was presbyterian.
On my parents marriage certificate it states his parents were Thomas Morrow and Agnes Martha Morrow (nee coulter) from Newtownards. I cannot find my grandparents marriage certificate only an Agnes and James morrow.
I have seen the 1911 census with a John Morrow age 1 with parents Thomas and May Morrow (May could be short for Martha) and other siblings but cant find birth cetificates for any of these siblings named Ada and Thomas and Mabel so not sure if this is my father. In the census it says Carrowdore area of Newtownards... I do know my father went to Millisle school so this could well be the area. (school records burned in fire unfortunately)
I just keep hitting a brick wall as to where my fathers people live or rest.
As a family we have never met any of his relatives at all.
Not sure if this is enough info but thanx to anyone willing to help. Really very much appreciated.
P.S. Did try Emeraldancestors site last year but no joy. Have also tried various sites asking for Lookups but noone can find anything. So am trying here on good recommendation.
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Welcome to Rootschat. Here's the link to the family in 1911 census you found living at Carrowdore:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Carrowdore/Ballycopeland/263812/
There is a birth registration for Ada M.Morrow July/Sept.1907 Newtownards district volume 1 page 782
Also, Mabel Morrow Apr./June 1899 Newtownards district volume 1 page 839
I didn't look for the rest of the family but you can find them in the civil registration index-
http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1408347
In 1901 the family are living in Ballycopeland townland:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Carrowdore/Ballycepeland/1254779/
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Hi,
The marriage of James Morrow and Agnes Coulter took place in Ballycopeland Presbyterian Church on 7 Jan 1898.
Regards
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Ok lost here lol..but i quick replied to you both in length but..where did posts go?
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Aghadowey,
I have tried that middle link numerous times but the names ada and mabel etc dont come up...No matches found it always says...am i doing something wrong?
Thanx ever so much greatly appreciated x
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Hi Kingskerwell,
I have had this info before but my father states on his own marriage cert that his father is Thomas. So far their children in PRONI does not turn up my fathers name John Morrow. Thanx for looking x
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Aghadowey,
I have tried that middle link numerous times but the names ada and mabel etc dont come up...No matches found it always says...am i doing something wrong?
Thanx ever so much greatly appreciated x
Go to civil registration index-
http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1408347
Put in name only, such as 'Ada Morrow' then narrow down results with tabs- place, dates, event, etc. and you sould see the index details.
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Aghadowey,
I did this yesterday and nothing happened but today voila it opened...brilliant!
Ok found this out from another site that 1901 census with John Morrow aged 1 is definately not my father as the woman May Morrow mentioned in census is Brazier to her own name not my grannys name Coulter. So the Ada and mabel etc are not his siblings.
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In 1901 census there is an Agnes Coulter Morrow with son James living at 'Carroodore' (Carrowdore)-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Carrowdore/Carroodore/1255013/
Some of the writing on original form has been crossed out-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000766095/
Strangely enough this this entry in 1911 census-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Carrowdore/Ganaway/263976/
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Yes seen all these entries before and did wonder about the Stoupe name.
My father mentioned to my older siblings he had a brother Thomas but one never knows in genealogy what turns up right lol.
My mother for instance is Taggart her father is Teggert with an E.
O think the carroodore is like ulster scots lingo? Sounds like anyway!
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There are lots of mistakes with placenames in 1911 and 1901 census- if you look at scanned image you can see what is is supposed to be as opposed to trancribed placename.
When you are asking for help it's a good idea to tell us all the details you have and what information you've already found to stop us from searching for and then posting information you already have.
"My father mentioned to my older siblings he had a brother Thomas"- any idea whether or not Thomas was older or younger than your father?
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Oops sorry about that that was seriously daft of me not to mention what info i have but came across most of it while posting on here like the Stoupe name etc.came across that last night and .......got e.mail today to say the John Morrow aged 1 in 1911 census was not my father as the May Morrow mentioned was Brazier to her own name so at least it rules out that but was disapointed all the same.
I was on emeraldancestors found my mothers lot but not a thing on my father at all.
Tried BDM in Belfast and Dublin and PRONI in belfast but no joy with birth registration etc or grandparents marriage..
Have tried loads of churches in Newtownards but no joy there either...I have now got to try Donaghadee as i was told today it was their district it all came under at the time.
I have my fathers driving license issued during ww2 but no birth certificate was needed.
I know not everyone was registered back then unfortunately but surely he must be registered somewhere?
He went to Millisle school he showed us way back in 60's but their school records were destroyed in fire!
Thomas was older we believe but again not sure (maybe eldest named after the father)..I am going on my older siblings childhood recollections on sibling names..my brother remembers having a conversation with my father and my father said he had a younger brother named Robert who went to live abroad but again childhood recollections only.
My sister claims he had a sister named Doreen who she was named after but another sister thought it was Elizabeth...My sister Doreen is also called Doreen Elizabeth!
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I have been mailing back and forth with a lovely woman who is a Member of the North of Ireland Family History Society
(web site: www.nifhs.org)
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For £12 fee they do Lookups in Newtownards churches and Donaghadee churches but none relating to my fathers side of family. Though she stresses this does not include all of county Down!
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You've posted this on Newtownards Methodist Church thread but it would be better answered here.
You lost me!
That is not my grandmother thats why i dont know what my father was.....where is her husband thomas in census?
And more importantly where is my father john born in 1911?
Am i missing something here ?
Im truly baffled.
Start with the 'facts' that you have-
1. your father John Morrow born 1911 (but no birth certificate found yet)
2. his parents Thomas Morrow & Agnes Martha Morrow (nee Coulter) from Newtownards (but no marriage certificate found yet)
3. your father went to Millisle School
4. your father had possible siblings named Thomas, Doreen (or Elizabeth), Robert (although details from your siblings vary and we can't yet be certain of the names)
Now, the details that have been found and posted here for you-
1. In 1901 census there is an Agnes Coulter Morrow with son James living at 'Carroodore' (Carrowdore)- chances of 2 Agnes Coulter Morrows living in this area are slim and this is probably the right area for a child to attend Millisle School. This Agnes is age 29 (born c1872) and Presbyterian.
2. The fact that we can find no marriage for Agnes Coulter to Thomas Morrow (or any Morrow) indicates the couple might not have actually married. The enumerator would not have required Agnes to prove any of the details she provided. Additionally, she signed the form Agnes Coulter (not Morrow).
3. 1911 Census shows an Agnes Morrow living in the same area and Presbyterian. If you compare the signatures from 1901 and 1911 they loove like the same writing. This Agnes' age is only 35 but only 4 years off from age in 1901 census.
4. 1911 census shows a child with Agnes (not the James recorded in 1901) but a Thomas John Stoupe. Could this be the possible brother Thomas?
5. Your father was born in 1911 but what was his date of birth- perhaps after the census was taken which would explain why he's not listed.
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Aghadowey.....Thankyou for all that info much appreciated! :)
I think your number 2 in second list has missed something ;)
Ards parish records have an Agnes Morrow (nee coulter) Married to James Morrow.
They were married in Ballycopeland Presbyterian church 7th January 1898. ...
I also found them in Proni and it names all their children right up to 1919 BUT my father wasnt listed...so thats why i dont think its my granny!
From a woman working in Ards Council...
My database pulls up all records for the whole of the Ards District and there is no record of a marriage between Thomas Morrow and Agnes Coulter listed at all. Maybe they were married in another district eg North Down?
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Ards parish records have an Agnes Morrow (nee coulter) Married to James Morrow.
They were married in Ballycopeland Presbyterian church 7th January 1898. ...
I also found them in Proni and it names all their children right up to 1919 BUT my father wasnt listed...so thats why i dont think its my granny!
Do you mean that marriage and baptisms of all children except your father were found in records of Ballycopeland Presbyterian Church? If so, it's not at all unisual for a child's baptism to be missing from records- in a large family of say 8-10 children there is often at least one missing.
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I agree.... but i have no way of knowing if that is my grandparents..
Its also lists James as the husband not Thomas.
My father states Thomas is his father..would they have taken second names as 1st?
Should i be pursueing James birth cert to see if Thomas is his second name?
James Marriage cert does not state he is James Thomas Morrow is this ususal?
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found this
Record Type Civil Marriage
Date of Marriage 7 Jan 1898
Groom Name james MORROW
Bride Name agnes COULTER
Church Ballycopeland Presbyterian Church
Parish Donaghadee
Civil District Newtownards
County Down
and this
Record Type Civil Birth
Date of Birth 16 Feb 1874
Name James MORROW
Gender M
Fathers Name James MORROW
Mothers Forenames Mary
Mothers Maiden Name MENAGH
Civil District Newtownards
Sub District Donaghadee
County Down
No James Thomas it seems..is this usual?
I dont want to follow a trail that isnt mine :-\
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Someone sent me this....
from www.ancestryireland.com
COULTER AGNES 1905 marries JOHN
Down Marriages giving fathers name
Surname Firstname Year Fathers Firstname county
MORROW THOMAS 1904 JAMES Down
MORROW THOMAS 1907 ALEXANDER Down
MORROW THOMAS 1910 ALEXANDER Down
MORROW THOMAS 1911 THOMAS Down
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Got this sent also..
From the 1912 website applications.proni.gov.uk/UlsterCovenant/
Morrow Agnes 54 Court Street Down: North Newtownards signed at Town Hall
Morrow Thomas Mountstewart Newtownards Down: North Newtownards Mountstewart
Could this be your Thomas employed on the big local estate of Mountstewart.
Morrow Thomas J Ballyblack Newtownards Down: North Newtownards Guild Hall
Quickly I discovered there are lots of Agnes Morrow as daughters and very few Agnes Coulters