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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Kent => England => Kent Lookup Requests => Topic started by: MKsylvia on Friday 30 July 10 16:52 BST (UK)
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Hi
I'm tracing Hogben's. Recently I spoke to someone in the Kent archives office and they gave me some information, but I need to verify what was found.
Richard Birch married a Sarah Hogben circa 1790 Swingfield
Their son also Richard Birch married a Elizabeth Hogben 13 0ct; 1821
He was baptised 25 sept; 1791 and buried 26 march 1846.
What they found was that Elizabeth was the daughter of John and Susannah Hogben. Now the only John and Susannah married were in Stanford in Kent. Her surname was Illenden. I need to verify that she is this Susannah.
The next problem is that lots of children were born to them, and the age range is too great to be one family.
Susannah 1768, John bp 1771, Hannah 1774, Mary 1778, William david 1782, George 1789, Elizabeth bp 08 03 1795, Ann 1797, John bp 1799, Richard 1801 and William bp 1803
ALL REGISTERED UNDER as born to JOHN AND SUSANNAH AS THEIR PARENTS.
Presumably John born in 1771 is the father of some of the later children but this is dependent on him also marrying someone called Susannah. Not likely and no marriage can be found. Can anyone shed any light on this for me??
I'm completely stuck.
Thank you
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Their son also Richard Birch married a Elizabeth Hogben 13 0ct; 1821
So the ideal thing would be to investigate this Elizabeth ie. when/where was she born, where did she marry, does she appear in any census (when and where - age and birthplace), burial even to get age - do you have any of this?
Casalguidi :)
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Hi
She is the Elizabeth shown above apparently.
Born 8 3 1795. In Stanford.
Her parents.......POSSIBLY married Woodchurch 23rd March 1765 This may or may not be them . It's John Hogbin and Susannah Illenden. No death. No census that I can see.
That's all I have.
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It's much easier to work back from Richard and Elizabeth (nee HOGBEN) BIRCH if we can.
No census that I can see.
Well Richard BIRCH appears to be in the 1841 census of Swingfield (I don't have access to the full household) ............. is Elizabeth with him? Is she likely to be the Elizabeth BIRCH who is still living in Swingfield in 1851 age about 50 (I would hope for a birthplace if she is) or do we assume that she died prior to 1851 or 1841 even?
Casalguidi :)
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Hi
The only Richard Birch I can see in the 1841 census is too old, he was born in 1771. Mine was born in 1791.
There is an Elizabeth
BIRCH, Elizabeth Head Widow F 50 1801 General House Hold Work Born Alkham
I originally thought she was born in Alkham, Kent RO said they have no births in Alkham, and then sent the info about Stanford. That's why I don't know if she is the same Elizabeth.
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Try looking for a Ric* in Swingfield in 1841 ............... there should be one age 45 ie. born between 1790-1796
There is a baptism for an Elizabeth HOGDEN (possibly a transcription error or else a transcription error in the marriage?) in Alkham 1800 dau of Thomas and Ann see http://www.familysearch.org (select Record Search Pilot)
I hope you didn't pay a lot of money for somebody to tell you that something isn't there when clearly it appears to be ::)
Casalguidi :)
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Hi
Right I have them in 1841
Hoad Cottage, Little, Swingfield
BIRCH, Richd M 45 1796
BIRCH, Eliz F 40 1801
BIRCH, Mary F 8 1833
BIRCH, Willm M 6 1835
BIRCH, Eliza F 3 1838
BIRCH, John F 0 (7 months) 1841
Thanks so much for finding her on family search. So she was born in Alkham like she says. You think she'd know wouldn't you. So now I need to find Thomas and Ann. Not John and Susannah.
Just one thought though, their first child was born in 1813 Henry. I have found him is the census and he states that he was born in 1813. She'd only be 13. Possible but likely?
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BIRCH Christenings, Church of England, Westbere, Kent
Parents RICHARD and ELIZABETH
ELIZABETH, 28 August 1823
ANN, 02 March 1828
RICHARD, 21 October 1828
MARY ANN, 06 January 1833#
WILLIAM, 21 June 1835#
ELIZA, 18 February 1838#
JOHN, 15 November 1840#
Ones with a # appear on 1841 Census with Richard and Elizabeth
Ok how does Henry born c 1813 fit into this if he was born before they were married in 1821 as you state.
How did you connect them to him?
The Marriage of Richard and Elizabeth HOGDEN took place at Church of England, Westbere, Kent, 13 October 1821.
( Source of all this info is Familysearch Pilot)
Trish :)
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Hi
OK I'm confused now, so I'm sure everyone else is.
OK This is what I need to know.
Henry Birch born 1813/14. Census says born Newington. I have a birth in Newington-next Hythe in 1813 so that's presumably him. Parents are Richard and Susanna.
I have a marriage of Richard and Susanna Baker in Newington next Hythe in 1805. That's where the Susanna comes in. This would mean Richard being born c 1785 to 1780 ish.
I can't find either of them being born in Newington. Can we trace either of their parents?
Originally I had Richard Birch of Swingfield as being this Richard, born 1791 but he married Elizabeth Hogben, hence my original question.
Sorry to have confused anyone.
Sylvia
Thanks
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No problem Silvia :)
So you are descended from Henry and Elizabeth?
Do you have her Maiden Name from one of the Childrens Birth Certs?
Was she Elizabeth Standford Christened 09 Feb 1823, Parish Church of Postling, Kent, to William and Elizabeth?
To me it looks like that they married late in life as I cannot find them married before 1846. They appear on the 1851 census with Ann, 3 and an Unnamed newborn.
Marriage,
Henry BIRCH, December 1846, Eltham, 5 285
On the same page is Elizabeth Stanford and Elizabeth Ann Driscall
Do you have the Marriage Cert or you only going by Census details and possible Christenings you can find that fit Henrys dob and pob?
As Henry does not name any of his Children Richard or Susanna I would think it unlikely they are his Parents.
Please let me know if I have the right details for them;
Children;
Ann 1848
John 1851
George 1858
William 1863
Ethelbert 1867
Trish :)
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Hi Trish.
Thanks so much for helping, I'm normally so thorough, but seem to have made a complete pigs ear of this one.
Yes that's the correct family. I am descended from Henry and Elizabeth. She is Elizabeth Standford of Postling.
I have their marriage cert. Oct 5th 1846. Both of full age. His residence at the time of the marriage was Newington. Hers Hythe
His fathers name Richard Birch Labourer Her father William Standford Labourer. Witnesses Thomas Standford. and Susannah Marsh
I have the same list of children that you have, however I also have a note that there was a daughter called Susannah Elizabeth born 5/11/1854 died aged 3. Not sure where I got this now, but there are some entries on Freebmd
Sylvia
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Well you have done all the right things Silvia in trying to sort this out.
It is 3.00am here in Australia so I am off to bed.
Hopefully someone on your side of the World will help.
Otherwise will check in tomorrow night.
Cheers,
Trish :)
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With the Susannah child then you may be on the right track.
Another possibilty is that Susannah Marsh is a Married Sister or Henrys Mother Remarried?
Maybe putting you on the wrong track as my brain is not working this late!
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Thank for your help. The only option I can see is Richard and Susanna Baker 1805 in Newington-next-hythe, of course this doesn't make it correct. What can I try next?
Sylvia
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As this is an old message you may already have this info. The Susannah Marsh you mentioned was married to Thomas Standford on 15 June 1847, he is the son of William Standford & Elizabeth Laws. I am descended from William & Elizabeth, Williams father Thomas Standford was my 4th great grandfather. Hope this helps
Sheena