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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Neil Todd on Friday 30 July 10 01:49 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help please. I have been researching an arm of my mothers family. It has led me down through a web of lies on BDM certs here in Australia to the Parents of my Great Grandmother.
She was Louisa Solomon b1855 where? she states New York, she was the daughter of a John Solomon & Mary Steven. She married in Melbourne Victoria in 1872. On her Marriage Cert it gives her parents names and place of birth. Through other court documents found in newspaper articles, I have also found a tie to the Solomons of Tasmania."Extremely interesting family" Ikey (Isaac)Solomon of Charles Dickens and Bryce Courtney fame ended his life of crime there after being sent to Tasmania. His wife Ann was imprisoned there as well and their eldest Son JOHN followed her from New York to Tasmania.
Is this John the same as my GGGrandfather :o ???
What I am trying to find out where John was born, London or New York, where he married and to whom. Not much of an ask, is it ::)
Neil
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Hi Neil,
The Australian Dictionary of Biography has an article about Ikey Solomon:
http://adbonline.anu.edu.au/biogs/A020422b.htm
It states that Ann's four youngest children were sent with her to VDL when she was transported, and that her two eldest (including John) emigrated in order to stay with her. They all left from England and it seems that only Ikey went to the USA in order to escape arrest. He then came to VDL of his own accord before being finally arrested there, taken back to England to be tried, and then transported back to VDL!
It looks like John was born in England, then...the article doesn't mention any family for him, and I can't see any marriage or children to him in the Tasmanian Family Links database: http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=8 (although that is not definitive).
Have you searched any other Australian records for the birth of Louisa? There is one born in Tasmania (Launceston) in 1845, but her parents were Aaron and Frances.
You might also need to search passenger lists to see if you can spot John Solomon coming in to Australia to be with his mother and siblings. If you're lucky he will be on an existing list, and if he's with a wife and children they may be listed also.
Perhaps a request for help on the Australia board might give you some more leads to go on?
Cheers
Prue
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Have you read wickipedia about Ikey Solomon
It says when he was given his ticket of leave in 1835 his 2 eldest sons seem to have left VDL by that time.
Also have you thought of contacting Bryce Courtenay who wrote the Potato Factory about Ikey and his wife Ann. - he may have done some research on their family.
;D Ted
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Thanks Prue, Understanding the web that has unfolded has been difficult. An item on Louisa Solomons first child "Thomas 1875" to her Husband m 1872 "Charles Barker White Messenger" seemed strange. In the details of mother on the BCert it says Mary Solomon formerly Davis. It has no such referance on her m Cert.
When i checked newspapers it came up with a referance to a Louisa Davis nee Solomon. None of the certs I have; have all the correct details, they told lies on them. I will continue to check in Australia, but the referance to her father being a Mariner has me worried.
Thanks Ted, he is not taking my calls......
Neil
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Hi Neil.
A few years ago a relative included some information on the Solomons in a Family History for private distribution.
Ikey Solomon married Ann Julian who was transported arriving in Hobart in June 1828 followed by her sons John and Moses. After Ikey came out they had other children, including Sarah. Most of this you have. My distant cousin seems to have used information from "Australian Genesis". I have no details on that, however if you PM me, I could send you her email address - also in Australia.
She makes the point that at the same time there was a different family of Solomons in VDL, including Judah and Joseph Solomon who were transported, arriving in Hobart in Jan 1820. Joseph divorced his wife, Harriet before leaving England so either could remarry. Judah did not divorce his wife, Esther. She later arrived with 4 children which made domestic arrangements with his mistress and new family somewhat interesting.
Four of Joseph's children, Lion Henry; Mary; Sarah and Frances arrived in Tasmania later. (Sarah is the connection with my family, Walford). Joseph later remarried.
Judah and Esther had at least 9 children in England including a Louisa who married a John Davis at the Great Synagogue in London. They came out to Australia in 1839 on the Juliet and settled in Tassie. Louisa later moved to Victoria.
I don't know if any of this relates to your Solomons, there were rather a lot of them. I can, if you like give you a contact email for my distant cousin or in the first instance email you the *pdf of the history, there may well be some links somewhere. My cousin has done significant research and there may well be something in it for you.
Cheers
Ozjane
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Hi, Thanks you for your interest, the Solomons have me stumped. Louisa was supposedly born in the USA. But there seems no record of this. I would accept any help at this stage as I have almost given up. There seems to be a few fibs told in this line which makes it very difficult. I will pm my email.
Regards
Neil
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Have just noticed your message from last year and hope I can help with your question regarding John Solomon, son of Ikey. I am descended from a brother of John. John was born in London in 1808, & married Elizabeth Harris in Sydney when aged 48, in 1856. They had at least nine children, none of whom were named Louisa. The years between his arrival in Australia in 1828 and his marriage 28 years later are well documented and were spent in Hobart until 1834 when he moved to Sydney. He was a merchant and landowner, publican and gold dealer, which made him very rich. (Ikey & Hannah had 4 sons and 2 daughters, all born in England. Only a few of their descendants remained in Tasmania after 1860.) There were at least three unrelated Solomon families in Tasmania - the largest of which were the descendants of Joseph Solomon of Evandale, Tas and his brother, Judah. There were also prominent Solomon families in Melbourne and Adelaide.
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Hullo Star48, Thanks for all the information. I now believe that my John Solomon is not the same John as the son of Ikey.
It would seem that my Louisa Solomon daughter of John Solomon and Mary Steven married a Mr Davis first. She then went on to marry a Mr Charles Parker White who had taken the name of Messenger from his first wife and then married Louisa He then disappears altogether and after seven years Louisa went on to marry again but used the name Messenger. All very confusing and it may never get unwound as there is no one left alive to attest the truth, Pity!
It has led me on a merry chase and I will continue to persue the truth as time allows, thanks again.
Neil
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Hello star48 ....I think I'm also a descendant of ikey. ..do you know the names of the other children. ..was there John and David...because those names keep popping up in my family tree
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Hello star48 ....I think I'm also a descendant of ikey. ..do you know the names of the other children. ..was there John and David...because those names keep popping up in my family tree
Hi, Ikey and Hannah Solomon's children were:- John (Ya'kov) born 1808 d.25 Jul 1889, Moses b. 1809 d. 4 Aug 1896, David b. 1818/9 d. 21 Aug 1860, Anne (Nancy) b. 12 Jan 1820 d.?, Sarah b. 4 Oct 1823 d. 1882, Mark b. 1825 d. 24 Jan 1877. All of these married in Australia and had their families in Australia. It is unlikely that any would have descendant lines in England although I do know of grandchildren of Ikey who lived in England for a time. John and David are both popular names in Jewish families. ( The reason for the large gap between Moses and David is that Ikey was in prison during that period!)
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Star48
I have just come across your post regarding Ikey Soiomon. I too have a family connection
to him. His daughter Sarah married George Barnett Levy . Their daughter Ann born in Launceston
Tasmania on 3/2/1851 married Ashur Hart on 8/8/1872 in the Melbourne Synagogue in Bourke St.
Ashurs father was Henry Hyam Hart my great great grand father. I am descended through
Ashurs brother, Henry Hyam Hart born around 1835.
Peter
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Thank you for your message, Peter. It is always great to have contact with people who are connected to our family! Do you have any information about Ashur and Ann's family and their dates and place of death? Star
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Star
I certainly do and much more than that.
Ashur Hart B 19/1/1848 at No 3 Grove St London. He arrived in Melbourne on the Caldera on
the 7/3/1855. He came with his parents Henry Hyam Hart and Ann Hart( Mordecai) and six
siblings. He married Anne Levy born in Launceston Tasmania on 3/2/1851 in Melbourne on 8/8/1872. Her father George Barnett Levy was part of the Levy family that played a large
part in the early history of Australian theatre. His wife Sarah Solomon was the daughter of
Isaac Solomon and Ann Julian. Isaac known as Ikey is regarded as the model for Fagin in
Charles Dickens Oliver Twist. Look him up on Google. Ashurs family were among the early
pioneers of Melbourne. His uncle Asher was in Collins St Melbourne as a draper in 1841.
and most of his cousins were there too. His cousin Louis had the first Jewish funeral with
a Hebrew headstone. As a family they were among the pioneers of the Jewish faith Melbourne.
Ashur is mentioned in four books. They are the Jews in Victoria 1835 - 1985 and The Jews in
Australia by Hilary Rubenstein, Australian Genesis Jewish Convicts and Settlers 1788- 1850
by J S Levi and GJF Bergman and The Enduring Remnant by Joseph Aron and Judy Arndt.
You can look Ashur up on the internet.
Children
Albert Henry Hart B 1873 Emerald Hill Melbourne 1873 D Bondi NSW 8/3.1930 No Children
Ernest Lewis Hart B1875 Emerald Hill D 1962 Sydney 1 DAU Annie May Hart B 1917
Percy Benjamin Hart B 1878 Carlton Melbourne D 7/8/1918 No children
Godfrey Lawrence Hart B 1880 Carlton D 6/10/1936 Shakespeare Hotel Sydney . 1son 1 dau
Mercia Doreen B 1904, Roy Asher B 6/2/1914.
Lillian May Hart B1882 Emerald Hill D 1949 Sydney no children.
Leslie Melbourne Hart B 1884 Melbourne D 22/6/1948 Sydney NSW. 3 DAU
Vera Daisy B 1909 Redfern NSW D 1/8/2003 Carlingford Sydney
Beryl B 1911, Nancy Lillian B 1915.
Reginald Hart B 1886 D 1950 Paddington Sydney M Elizabeth Cousins 1916 1son 1 Dau
Ashur Percy B 1917, Shirley B 7/10/1926
Ruby Hart B 1888 D 16/5/1971 NSW Children Charles Ashur Sara 1915, Jack Sara 1917, Peggy 1920,Peggy 1926
Violet Hart 1926 D 1959 Sydney. 1son Maurice Morris
There is much more to the story.
Peter
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Thank you very much, Peter. Ikey is my 4x great grandfather and I have a lot of information about him and his wife but have not followed his daughter's family lines very much, Sarah's least of all. I am descended from Isaac and Hannah's son, David. So I really appreciate having this information about her family. Thank you for taking the time to send it to me. S.
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I looked him up on the Trove site and what came up was not only fascinating but quite funny
at times. It seems his only legal occupations were selling oranges and lemons and being a
pedlar. While still a teenager he was an adept passer of debased coins, a pickpocket and fence
who got out of trouble by bribing the police. Even when he was sentenced to transportation for life
his uncle, a Chatham merchant by means fair or devious managed to keep him in England. On
one occasion he stole 300 pounds worth of goods from a boot maker, had them taken to his
house in hackney cabs and proceeded to remove all identifying marks and when challenged by
the owner even managed to make the boot maker pay another 100 pounds to get his own goods
back! There is a quite funny description of his famous escape in London. It seems his wife and
some of his friends plied his guards with liberal amounts of free liquor and then feigning a fit she
clung to one of the now drunken guards as if for dear life. It must have been quite a sight.
After that he hid in Highgate before escaping to America via Denmark. He then came to Tasmania
via South America according to a report at the time. No wonder he became such a cult figure.
Peter
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Hi Peter, Take what you read in the newspapers with a grain of salt! There is a lot more involved than was peddled in the press of the time. Because he became well-known, more was attributed to him than he was responsible for. When he was jailed a few years after his marriage, he spent 10 years in prison. He was mistakenly released in the place of someone else, and when he learned it was a mistake, he handed himself back in so that the person who was supposed to be released could be. As a result he was given a pardon. He had a legitimate jewellery shop and a second-hand business where he took full advantage of re-selling stolen goods sold to him cheaply by those who stole them. He was certainly on the wrong side of the law but he also had a 'code of honour' of sorts and is not guilty of all that was laid at his door. It was popular at the time to vilify jews, especially rich ones. The newspaper account of his escape when returning from his court appearance is inaccurate and highly coloured. His wife was not guilty of any criminal activity, but his brother was bribed by the police to plant evidence that got her transported to Tasmania. When Isaac learned of it, in disregard for his personal liberty, he immediately sailed for the penal colony to see if he could help her. That is not the action of a selfish person. Although previously a law-breaker, he was respected in Tasmania to the extent that he kept government account books and was considered an accurate and honest book-keeper. The most respected lawyer in the colony stood guarantor for him and a number of the colony's gentlemen and 'top brass' got together to pay a bond demanded by the British prosecutor. He was very intelligent, and thoroughly annoyed the constabulary in London because he could run rings around them in verbal altercation. You may have heard that the novel "The Potato Factory" is supposed to be the story of his life, however, the bulk of it is solely imaginary and there is very little fact in it. We considered taking a libel suit against the writer, however, because he called it a 'novel' he can say what he likes. Ikey was undoubtedly a colourful character and deserved his imprisonment, but he was not the ridiculous or sinister figure that he was made out to be by the press of the day. Charles Dickens was a young reporter at the time of Ikey's third trial and the strong similarity between the trial transcript and the trial of Fagin in 'Oliver Twist' has led to speculation that Dickens modelled his account of Fagin's trial on that of Ikey. However, there is no other congruence between the experience of Ikey and the character of Fagin although a lot of people wrongly assert that Ikey was the character reference for the creation of Fagin. A lot of research has gone into peeling back the layers of misinformation to reveal the real person at the heart of all that was written about him. It is interesting to be able to look at the old newspapers and see what society thought about him at the time. I have copies of all the articles I've been able to find about him. I think that coming to Australia was a blessing for his family, because they were able to rise to places in society that they never would have been permitted to hold had they remained in England. It can be strange how things turn out! Thanks for keeping in touch. Star