RootsChat.Com

Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: Jamieson on Thursday 29 July 10 20:31 BST (UK)

Title: Forbes
Post by: Jamieson on Thursday 29 July 10 20:31 BST (UK)
Hello there fellows

Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

The photo is my Grandmothers parents, they rest by the River Dee in Peterculter. William, my father tells me was in the Gordon Highlanders and survived The Somme

Something of a mystery this side of the family.
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: lizanne on Thursday 29 July 10 21:09 BST (UK)
Hi,
Have you got copies of their deaths from Scotland's People.
This will give you their parents names.
Jane
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: Jamieson on Thursday 29 July 10 21:40 BST (UK)
No I don't have anything on them.

They are a bit of a mystery. My father does not remember much, just that the Tobins were catholic and the Forbes were Church of Scotland. And that there was a falling out within the family.

Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: lizanne on Thursday 29 July 10 22:04 BST (UK)
You can view and download the registry entry from Scotland's People.

http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/

Credits are £6.00 for 30 , to fully view a record costs 6 credits.
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: Jamieson on Thursday 29 July 10 22:31 BST (UK)
OK, thanks for all your help.

I lost my job last week and I'm not going to pay for that information.

Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: Piglet01 on Friday 30 July 10 22:37 BST (UK)
Hello

My good deed for the day...... 

I've downloaded the death entry for young (18 yrs old) Mabel, who was on the stone.  And also the marriage entry for William Forbes and Alice Tobin who married on 29 Nov 1902.  Both were 21 years old at the time and Paper Mill, workers.

He resided at 548 Great Northern Road and she at Lower Bucksburn, Newhills.

Married at Stoneywood Hall, Newhills.

Looks as though you may have difficulty getting back on your Forbes line.  However Alice parents were a Henry Tobin and a Helen Tobin (M.S. Gillespie).

If you drop me a pm with your e-mail address I'll forward the entries.

Regards,   Steve  :)
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: marcie dean on Friday 30 July 10 22:52 BST (UK)
Hi,
My 4x grgrandmother was Margaret Forbes.  Mother Mary Craig and father Adam Forbes.  Just thought that you would like to know. I believe that they married in Rayne.
We have talked about this on RC before, sometimes if you cannot find the direct root, you can sometimes find what you want by taking a slight detour.
For instance if there are names as witnesses related to the people marrying, you can use them to find what you want, to go back even further.  There is also a link on here to Alford Historic Society who hold lists of people and parishes around Aberdeenshire.  which may or may not help when stuck.
marcie
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: ev on Saturday 31 July 10 08:07 BST (UK)
hi all  :)

someone has a tree on ancestry with alice tobin parents henry tobin and
ellen gillespie , husband wiliam forbes
the 1901 census has alice tobin age 19 at newhills aberdeenshire
Steve , can you tell us the names of william's parents on that marriage cert. ?
(william forbes and sarah cheyne , john forbes and mary ?  ??? )
service records for william forbes gordon highlanders might be worth a check
although there seem to be a few william forbes served in that regiment

ev
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: Piglet01 on Saturday 31 July 10 09:45 BST (UK)
Hello ev

Thanks very much for the input.  On the parents section for William it has:

Sarah Cheyne (Dressmaker) - now widow of William Thom (Tailor). 
So, I take it you have found a marriage of Sarah Cheyne to a William Forbes - or is this son William on a census record?  Either way, we'resinging to the same hymn sheet    :)

Witnesses - John McDonald and George Birnie.

Also, couldn't find a marriage for Alice parents on SP?....
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: ev on Saturday 31 July 10 10:05 BST (UK)
it was from the ancestry tree , Steve
william thom forbes & sarah cheyne
just wondering if alice tobin was even born in scotland  :-\

ev
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: Jamieson on Saturday 31 July 10 10:29 BST (UK)
This is awesome guys, thanks very much for what you have uncovered so far.

My father reckons the Tobins are from Ireland. He said Alice was of the Catholic Church. Don't know if this is true.

Both William Forbes and his wife Alice Tobin lived in what is now part of Aberdeen. Back then it was outwith the city limits.

There was a papermill at Stoneywood and also at Mugiemoss and I suspect they worked in the mills before moving to Peterculter paper mill in Aberdeenshre.
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 31 July 10 11:00 BST (UK)
Hi All

From the info you have all provided, this looks like William with mother in the 1901 census prior to his marriage:

Sarah Thom 49, dressmaker b. Fyvie, Aberdeenshire
William Forbes 18, Paper Labouring Machine Worker, b. Woodside
Peter Thom 11 b. Woodside

Address: 548 Gt Northern Rd, Aberdeen Woodside

Monica  :)
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: ev on Saturday 31 July 10 11:15 BST (UK)
Monica  :)

i suspect that william thom was not the father of william forbes
it looks like sarah was widowed by 1881

ev
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 31 July 10 11:18 BST (UK)
Would look likely Ev. If I am following this line correctly:

There is a marriage on IGI:

WILLIAM PIRIE THOM and SARAH CHEYNE    
Marriage: 17 AUG 1872 in Millbrex, Aberdeen

One daughter shows to a Wiliam Thom and Sarah Cheyne on IGI (before records stop on IGI c. 1874):

MARY ANN THOM Birth: 25 NOV 1872 Millbrex, Aberdeen

Censusus for the family:

1881 - family transcribed as Thorn on the index I am looking at:
Sarah Thorn 28, dressmaker b. Fyvie, Aberdeenshire
Mary Ann Thorn 8, daughter b. Fyvie, Aberdeenshire
Alexander Cheyne 31, brother, mason, b. Fyvie, Aberdeenshire
John Cheyne 27, brother, joiner b. Fyvie, Aberdeenshire

Address: Spital No 57, Aberdeen Old Marchar

1891:
Sarah Thom 38, dressmaker b. Fyvie, Aberdeenshire
Mary Ann Thom 17, dressmaker b. Fyvie, Aberdeenshire
Jeannie Thom 15 b. Gardenstown, Banff Sh
William Thom 8 b. Old machar, Aberdeen Sh
Peter Thom 1 b. Old machar, Aberdeen Sh

Address: 102 Hadden St, Woodside, Aberdeen Old Marchar

Monica
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: ev on Saturday 31 July 10 11:22 BST (UK)
yes , the 1881 census has her as widowed , thom on the census disc

ev
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 31 July 10 11:25 BST (UK)
And confirmation of William and Sarah's details, including his death:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/pirie/history/PFWv1-o/p1021.htm

Monica
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: ev on Saturday 31 July 10 11:36 BST (UK)
good find Monica  8)

ev
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: ev on Saturday 31 July 10 11:41 BST (UK)
Monica , can you see alice tobin on the 1901 census ?
can you confirm her birth country ?
i'm just looking at the index

ev
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 31 July 10 11:44 BST (UK)
I was just looking at IGI for a parent search. Whilst her entry doesn't show, a lot of her siblings do (all submitted entries but include details of deaths through the second half of the 20th C.).

I'll check the transcript of 1901 for her and family...

Monica
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 31 July 10 11:50 BST (UK)
This looks to be family in 1901, but no Alice  :-\ Younger children show as born in Newhills

Henry Tobin 46, Roofing Felt Maker b. Ireland
Ellen Tobin 44 b. England
Mary A Tobin 24 b. England
Ellen M Tobin 15
Thomas Tobin 13
Margaret Tobin 12
Henry Tobin 6
Joseph Tobin 6

Address: 33, Mugiemoss Rd, Newhills, Aberdeenshire

These match with the submitted entries on IGI, although some ages may be mistranscribed:

1. Mary Elizabeth Tobin   Birth: 1877 Salford Registration Districts,Or,Salford By Manchaster,Or, Salford In Clitheroe, Lancashire, England
2. Mary Ann Tobin Birth: 1879 Salford Registration Districts,Or,Salford By Manchaster,Or, Salford In Clitheroe, Lancashire, England
3. Helen Mabel Tobin Birth: 23 APR 1885 Newhills, Aberdeen, Scotland
4. Thomas Tobin Birth: 08 MAY 1887 Bucksburn, Aberdeen, Scotland
5. Margaret Tobin Birth: 13 JAN 1889 Aberdeen, Aberdeen, Scotland
6. John Tobin Birth: 04 MAR 1891 Bucksburn, Aberdeen, Scotland ...not sure about the next couple of entries, implies triplets  :o
7. Henry Tobin  Birth: 04 MAR 1891 Bucksburn, Aberdeen, Scotland
8. Frances Tobin Birth: 04 MAR 1891 Bucksburn, Aberdeen, Scotland
9. Henry Tobin Birth: 29 APR 1892 Bucksburn, Aberdeen, Scotland
10. Joseph Tobin Birth: 23 OCT 1894 Bucksburn, Aberdeen, Scotland

Monica
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 31 July 10 11:54 BST (UK)
This might well be Alice in 1901, living away from home. Birth place would fit with the oldest children of Henry and Ellen:

Margaret Williamson 49
William I Williamson 27
Alice Tobin 19, boarder, Paper Mill Worker b. England
Margaret Youngson 21

Address: 5, Seaview, Newhills

I'll just check the 1891 family entry, she should be home with family for that...
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 31 July 10 11:57 BST (UK)
 :-\ Still haven't got her with family. This looks to be Henry and Ellen in 1891 - surname showing as Tobies on the index I am looking at:

Henry Tobies 36, Roofing Felt Maker b. Quebec, Canada  ???
Ellen Tobies 34 b. Salford, Manchester
Mary A Tobies 12 b. Salford, Manchester
Elizabeth Tobies 14 b. Salford, Manchester
Ellen M Tobies 5 b. Newhills, Aberdeenshire
Thomas Tobies 3 b. Newhills, Aberdeenshire
Margaret Tobies 2 b. Newhills, Aberdeenshire

Address: Lower Buxburn, Newhills

Monica
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 31 July 10 12:05 BST (UK)
This looks to be Henry and Ellen in Salford for 1881 - everyone born Salford apart from Henry:

Henry Tobin 24, Labourer At Mill Cloth Works b. Quebec Canada
Ellen Tobin 23
Mary Elizth. Tobin 4
Mary Ann Tobin 2

Address: Back of 17 Hodson St, Salford

RG11; Piece: 3959; Folio: 120; Page: 67

Monica
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 31 July 10 12:08 BST (UK)
There is an Alice Tobin showing as born in 1882 - 1st Qrt. Salford, Greater Manchester - Vol. 8d, Pg. 85 as a possibility. There are a few Tobin families in the Salford censuses, so hard to be certain.

Monica
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: ev on Saturday 31 July 10 12:09 BST (UK)
and possible marriage
henry tobin and ellen gillespie 4th quarter 1875 salford(freeBMD)

ev
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: Jamieson on Saturday 31 July 10 12:15 BST (UK)
Going by the dates so far, the ages she was 1881 and 1901 census, I put Alice born in 1882. If she died in 1968 that would make her 86.

I was 11 in 1968 and I remember her well.
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: ev on Saturday 31 July 10 12:22 BST (UK)
looking at scotlandspeople index(which is free) her birth year is c1882
(from death year)

ev
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: Jamieson on Saturday 31 July 10 15:53 BST (UK)
It looks like this one has come to the end of the line.  I can only offer my sincerest thanks to ev, MonicaLesi, Piglet01, marcie dean.


Well done, thank you.

anyone ever need photo's of stones ect, just give me a shout..

Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 31 July 10 16:27 BST (UK)
On top of what you already had from Steve and Ev, you have a little bit more info there Jamieson which has probably given you a good feel of the different family lines. The link that I posted earlier for Sarah Cheyne and husband William Thom, lets you click on her name to work back to further info on her lines.

I think with Alice, other than where she was for 1891, you also hopefully have a line of enquiry to follow up on.

Not sure how much more info you need at the moment. We could work back a little bit on the family of Ellen Gillespie perhaps down in Salford, although ideally you need the marrriage entry for her and Henry Tobin that Ev found to ensure you are following the correct families, so it would just be guesses without that info. I did see a possible entry on the Canadian censuses for Henry in Quebec, but again, need at least his father's name confirmed to be sure.

Monica  :)
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: Jamieson on Saturday 31 July 10 16:57 BST (UK)
No tree is too long, thats for sure. My Jamieson side goes back to 1690. But all that hard work was done by someone else.
It was just by coincidence that I found it.

It was that find which set me off on filling in the tree on www.geni.com and ancestry.co.uk.

Now i have inputs to my granmothers family, the Forbes and Tobins. Now the Cheynes.

Its all very good stuff and keeps me busy.

There is still things to find on all of them.
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 31 July 10 17:25 BST (UK)
That's what keeps everyone going  :)

If you look on IGI and the submitted entries I listed, there are a number of death details included for the children of Henry and Ellen, if you look at the individual entries. Mostly in Aberdeen but at least one in Australia.

Not sure if you have done a 'parent search' on IGI before, which will bring up all the entries on one search - let me know if not.

Monica
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: Jamieson on Saturday 31 July 10 17:45 BST (UK)
I have never used any search methods nor sites like ScotlandsPeople, IGI.

Guidance on those would be great to get me started
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 31 July 10 18:01 BST (UK)
Have a look through these help notes here on RC: www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,24468.0.html - Where to start with Scottish Research?

This is a great link for parishes and counties:

www.scotlandsfamily.com/county-map.htm
www.scotlandsfamily.com/parish-maps.htm

IGI stands for International Genealogical Index - www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true

This is a database provided by the LDS (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints). It is particularly good for the period 1855-74 in Scotland. They are extracted index entries from the Statutory Registers. Pre 1855, they also have extracts from the Old Parish Registers (OPRs). This is a great search database, normally from which you can move on to Scotlands People, which is the official pay to view site which includes the original images with all the addtional info on the register entries.

You will find that entries on IGI are either actual extract from registers or member submitted entries (which have to be verified elsewhere as they can be wrong!). The source of the info is always included on the entry.

A parent search lets you search for any chidlren showing to a couple(s) with a set of given names. Try searching on the IGI search screen. Simply put in father and mother's first name and surname on the r/h side, then at the bottom, click for British Isles and then Scotland. If you find for any search that there potential children for more than once couple, you can add time parameters and also counties (although bare in mind that sometimes people moved around counties).

Monica

Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: LAandJA on Tuesday 17 August 10 12:43 BST (UK)
Hello All,
  Yes, you all have the correct information.  I have an EDMOND family Tree on Ancestry.com with many TOBINs in it. I have recently been contacted by Alan Jamieson concerning Alice TOBIN who was a sister to Henry TOBIN who was born in 1892 and married my grandmother, Annie Moir EDMOND's sister, Mary Ann Pirie EDMOND in 1912. I have a few documents on the TOBIN family.
  My grandmother's family was from Woodside, Aberdeen.  She married Alexander STABLES in 1908.
  There were triplets born in March of 1891. I have one of the triplets, John TOBIN that died, but I also believe that one of the others died as well, the first Henry TOBIN. As, my Henry TOBIN married to Mary A.P. EDMOND was born in the April of 1892.
 I can invited guests to see my EDMOND Tree on Ancestry.com, if you would like to see the TOBINs that I have included on there, with documents. Please send along your e-mail address with your names to
Judy Anderson nee STABLES

(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.

New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page:  http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: marcie dean on Tuesday 17 August 10 21:31 BST (UK)
Hi, another point of interest in Scottish History of the Clan Chattan. There is a Sir William Forbes.  The piece is very interesting.

The paragraph about Sir William Forbes is approximately half way through. You could track forwards from him to the 18/19th century.

marcie
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: Jamieson on Thursday 26 August 10 10:28 BST (UK)
Hi Marcie,
Thanks for your post.

To date I have nothing on the Forbes. What I have is Sarah Cheyne Married to William Pirie Thom.

Sarah Cheyne is the mother of my William Forbes.....but  William Pirie Thom is not the father.....William Thom died 9 March 1875 age 21. William Thom did however have children with Sarah before his death.

William Forbes was not on of his children though. I have Sarah, William and another youngster Peter on the 1891 census.


1891:
Sarah Thom 38, dressmaker b. Fyvie, Aberdeenshire

Mary and Jeannie are from William Thom,

Mary Ann Thom 17, dressmaker b. Fyvie, Aberdeenshire
Jeannie Thom 15 b. Gardenstown, Banff Sh

but William and Peter were born after Thom's death in 1875.

William Thom 8 b. Old machar, Aberdeen Sh
Peter Thom 1 b. Old machar, Aberdeen Sh

Address: 102 Hadden St, Woodside, Aberdeen Old Marchar
Title: Re: Forbes
Post by: Jamieson on Sunday 07 November 10 21:05 GMT (UK)
Thanks to Ev for all your hard work and everyone else, but I have now a very comprehensive portfolio on the Forbes and Tobin line, far from complete but non the less quite an undertaking. Thanks very much indeed.