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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: Chorney on Thursday 29 July 10 16:48 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone -
Looking for any leads possible as I try to make my way through family history with precious little to go on.
Looking for any information on Mary Welsh Dougal - dob 9 Jul 1911, Wishaw
Left Scotland for Canada in 1929 on SS Antonia from Greenoch
She was probably born out of wedlock to Mary Ann Dougal - dob approximately 1888
Also, looking for information on Victor Thomas Phillips, maybe born in 1903 to Albert Phillips in Dunfermline, and may have had a sister called Nan.
Victor and Mary (Molly) met and married in Canada.
Any leads/help would be great appreciated!!
Thanks!
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Only birth for a Victor I can see on SP around that date is this one
1903 PHILLIPS VICTOR ALBERT Male at DUMFRIES /DUMFRIES
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hi Chorney
welcome to rootschat :)
find my past website has a victor phillips born 1904 going to quebec canada
1927 departure port greenock(might be available on ancestry website)
the scotland 1911 census would be the best bet for finding them but don't
think it is available until 2012
ev
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Thanks ev!
I have found his record of landing in Montreal in 1927. That's all the information I have though. I'm hoping to find a birthdate, parents names, anything. The older generation in my family don't remember anything as Victor died in 1950 - apparently taking his past with him. :)
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Sorry - he died in 1960-61.
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Sancti's find might be a start
info. often gets mangled in the telling :-\
ev
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Only birth for a Victor I can see on SP around that date is this one
1903 PHILLIPS VICTOR ALBERT Male at DUMFRIES /DUMFRIES
What's "SP"? Sorry - I'm pretty new to all of this.
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www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
You can view and download certificates for a small fee.
If the 1903 certificate is the right Victor it will give his parents names.
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www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
You can view and download certificates for a small fee.
If the 1903 certificate is the right Victor it will give his parents names.
After speaking to my mom, I think this would be the right one. Thanks!!!
As for Mary (Molly) things get a little more complicated.
She was Mary Welsh Dougal, and was born to Nina in Wishaw. We don't know if Nina's maiden name was Dougal or Duthart. Mary was raised however, by Mary Ann who was either Nina's mother or sister, although I'm putting my money on daughter. I can't find anything that works for either of the names Dougal or Duthart. However, I do know that the famous drummer, Alec Duthart, was somehow related to Mary and could have been her nephew. Now..... If I could just put all of this together......
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If it helps (or clouds the issue), the name Duthart did exist in Wishaw.
According to the 1925 street directory there was a J. Duthart at 249 Cambusnethan Street, and William Duthart, miner was at 7 Anderson Street.
According to the burial records for Cambusnethan cemetery Hannah Duthart and her husband Cornelius Russell buried a child called Alexander, aged 19 months on 29th August 1911.
Also, Mary Duthart and her husband William Warren buried their son william, aged 17 months, on 1st June 1916, their address is given as 140 Cambusnethan Street Wishaw.
I tried looking the burial records for Nina and Mary Welsh/Dougall/Duthart but no luck. The records I have finish at 1916 (with a few years missing) so they may have died after that date.
good luck with your research.
Lodger.
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If it helps (or clouds the issue), the name Duthart did exist in Wishaw.
According to the 1925 street directory there was a J. Duthart at 249 Cambusnethan Street, and William Duthart, miner was at 7 Anderson Street.
According to the burial records for Cambusnethan cemetery Hannah Duthart and her husband Cornelius Russell buried a child called Alexander, aged 19 months on 29th August 1911.
Also, Mary Duthart and her husband William Warren buried their son william, aged 17 months, on 1st June 1916, their address is given as 140 Cambusnethan Street Wishaw.
I tried looking the burial records for Nina and Mary Welsh/Dougall/Duthart but no luck. The records I have finish at 1916 (with a few years missing) so they may have died after that date.
good luck with your research.
Lodger.
Thanks so much! Mary Welsh Dougal died here in Canada in 2005. The rest may be helpful though. Thanks again for your efforts!
Beth
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Oh! It's possible that Nina married and took the last name Hendry.
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Just an update!
The information given for Victor Albert Phillips was a goldmine, and I was able to follow it back for quite a number of years. Of the 4 grandparents I'm currently researching, Victor was the only one I hadn't met and the one who's been dead the longest (died before I was born). Funny how those I did meet and who have died more recently are proving the most difficult to track down!
Thanks again for your help! This Dougal/Duthart thing is driving me insane!
I know my grandmother Molly was born in Wishaw but I can't say for certain that the family stayed in Wishaw. Do you think that because she was illigitimate that her mother might have been sent away for the birth? I'm just grasping at straws here, but part of the family must have stayed there as Alec Duthart was born (1926) and raised in Cambusnethan, which is just down the road I believe.
I can't seem to find any records at all for a Thomas Dougal married to a Mary Ann that seems to fit well enough to make sense, and I can't find any record at all of a Nina, even though we know she existed.
Beth
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If anyone could check for Dougal in Wishaw 1911 or 1912 I'd be forever grateful!
Beth
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Another little update to my saga....
Someone offered to search Mary Welsh Dougal at NRH and came up empty handed. She was also told that she would not be on the census release coming next year. I assume because of her birthdate.
I'm widening my search to all of Lanarkshire in hopes that I can find some record of her birth mother.
Airdrie
Coatbridge
Cumbernauld
Kilsyth
Motherwell
Shotts
and of course...
Wishaw
I think Cambusnethan also falls into this category.
Again, here's a better laid out bit on what little info I have.
My grandmother:
Mary (Molly) Welsh Dougal(l)
Born: July 9, 1911, Wishaw
Her mother would have been Nina (don't know last name, but could be Dougal or Duthart, or something else for that matter). No one seems to know the father's name, but it appears Nina worked for his family.
Mary (Molly) was raised by Mary Ann (don't know last name). Mary Ann was married twice. Mary Ann was either Nina's mother or sister.
Some family members who could have been siblings to Nina are: Fannie, Yram, Edward.
Mary (Molly) had a half sister named May who became May Lampkin (William Lampkin) through marriage in Canada.
The last name Dougal is obviously someone's last name, I just can't figure out whose. I think it must be Nina's but I can't find any record of a Nina Dougal anywhere.
Also, my mother's middle name is Hendry which I'm assuming was someone's last name, but again, I don't know who.
I know that the drummer Alec Duthart was some relation to Mary (Molly). He called her Aunt Molly, but that doesn't necessarily mean she was his aunt - just older, I guess.
If anyone was any advice or hints I'd appreciate it!
Thanks!
Beth
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There is this birth which would need to be ordered
1911 DOUGAL MAGGIE Female at CAMBUSNETHAN /LANARK
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1901 census has this family
Peter Dougal 45
Eliza Dougal 43
Neil Dougal 24
Catherine Dougal 20
Bella Dougal 18
Daniel Dougal 12
Peter Dougal 9
Mary Dougal 4
Daniel Gray 80
Address: 20 Wemys Row Cambusnethan
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1901 census has this family
Peter Dougal 45
Eliza Dougal 43
Neil Dougal 24
Catherine Dougal 20
Bella Dougal 18
Daniel Dougal 12
Peter Dougal 9
Mary Dougal 4
Daniel Gray 80
Address: 20 Wemys Row Cambusnethan
I saw that one too Sancti. The Mary listed here would be too young though. From my grandmother's record of landing of landing in Canada in 1929, she lists her family member in Scotland as:
Mrs. Mary Dougal, 57 Devon Cottage, Carfin (?) Rd., Craigneuk, Wishaw
that's 1929 though, and doesn't really give me anything to go by except her mother's name, who was actually either her aunt or grandmother. She just didn't know it at the time.
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Did she state that name as her mother?
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She did, but at the time she "thought" that was her mother. In actuality, she wasn't. The identity of her mother was kept from her for some time after that. Her mother was actually Nina who was unmarried.
I should add as well, that the Mary she listed was married twice, and I don't know which marriage Nina came from, if she was indeed her daughter.
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The Mary in the census record was born 1896 so certainly old enough to have an illegitimate baby in 1911.
What was nina's real name?
Do you know when she died?
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Unfortunately, I don't know the answer to either of those questions. I always thought Nina was her real name. My mother was named after her, and her name first name is Nina, middle name Hendry.
As for death... Well I believe it was after I was born in 69 but I have no idea. I'll ask my mom and see if she remembers. I'll check out that one again though.
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Who was Mary Dougal married to?
Do you know any of her husbands names?
I can't see a marriage for a female called Nina to anyone called Hendry or it's spelling variations.
Maybe SKS could check the 1911 birth for Maggie Dougal
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I think Mary was married to Thomas, but memories seem to be fading around here.
I've had no luck with the name Nina either. I mean none, so I think you may be correct in saying that Nina wasn't her given name. I wish my grandmother was still around because she might have been able to clear this up for me once and for all.
I know there's a Jim who's still in Scotland. Maybe I'll have to write him a letter.
Who's SKS?
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SKS, some kind soul ;D
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SKS, some kind soul ;D
::) Of course.....
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Looking at the Alec Duthart connection, he was born 1925 Cambusnethan and it looks like his parents were John Duthart and Martha Taylor who were married in Shotts 1917
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Struggling to find a Dougal/Duthart connection
Other Duthart marriages in the area
1918 DUTHART ANDREW and SUTHERLAND MARY at SHOTTS (WESTERN DISTRICT) /LANARK
1920 DUTHART WILLIAM DUNLOP and MACFARLANE AGNES JACK at CAMBUSNETHAN /LANARK
1906 WARREN WILLIAM and DOUTHART MARY at SHOTTS (WESTERN DISTRICT) /LANARK
1909 RUSSELL CORNELIUS JOHNS and DOUTHART HANNAH at SHOTTS (WESTERN DISTRICT) /LANARK
1910 CLARK PETER and DOUTHART MARTHA JANE at SHOTTS (WESTERN DISTRICT) /LANARK
Are any of these surnames mentioned in family folklore?
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Not that I can think of, but that doesn't mean it's not possible. Unfortunately, family history wasn't a big thing in our family. These all look good. Time to dig around and see what I come up with. Thanks again for your help!
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I've discovered an address for 1926, but I can't seem to do anything with it. Anyone have any ideas as to what this address might help me find?
In 1926, Mrs. Mary Dougall lived at 223 1/2 low, Main St. Wishaw.
I've tired plugging that in in various places, but I'm not getting anything.
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Hi Chorney
Not much you can do with an address except perhaps check the electoral roll to confirm who shows as living there. I assume you have from source Mary Dougal living there (is this from May Lampkin's trip to the UK that year and the shipping manifest?). May shows as aged 30 so born c. 1896. You also have a later address from the shipping manifests (Molly has a couple of trips back before and just after her marriage).
Can I ask, have you tried to find marriage or death certs for Molly to see what they say? Were there any obituaries for Molly after her death in 2005? I can see this reference for example:
PHILLIPS, Mary "Molly" (DOUGALL); 93; Iroquois Falls, ON; Timmins Daily Press; 2005-05-25
Similarly, you have a possible 'sister' Mary/May who married a Lampkin over in Canada. You have his name as William. Have you tried finding any certs for this Mary over in Canada to establish her maiden name and parents' names.
There are too many possibles on surnames and scenarios to help you start to narrow down the search for Mary's origins.
Why do you think her mother's name was Nina? I can see that she called your mother Nina from what you have said, with a further surname of Hendry also added to your mother's name.
Nina was used often as a pet name. It could be a diminutive of Ann, see www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=nina
Monica :)
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Monica! Wow, you've done your homework! I'm curious where you found that obit. That is my grandmother's, Molly's, and is the right one. I hunted around for it, but couldn't fint it. You're obviously much better at this than I am!
I don't have Molly living there, but it was a place to start. If you've read through all my mumbo jumbo, then you know I'm lacking some crucial information. I've got my aunt working on getting info from my grandmother's records which we believe may be at their house, and I've written a letter to a relation in Scotland whom I'm hoping will know much more. It will take quite awhile to get a response from him though, I'm assuming.
Yes, Molly's sister May Lampkin came to Canada in 1919 I believe and I've found one record of landing in Canada in 1926, which was after she was married to Bill Lampkin. I haven't yet found her original voyage record, which I hope will confirm her last name and give me a direction to follow. Certs in Canada are extremely difficult to get, as everything must be done through the government. And, as I'm not a direct relation to her, it may be difficult. I have applied for a marriage cert for Molly, but I don't know when or if that will come.
According to family, Molly's mother Nina was definitely called Nina, although I'm trying to find out if indeed it was a pet name as suspected. I'm thinking it must have been because I can find nothing under the name Nina that matches well enough.
If you've any other ideas/advice, please pass them on!!
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I think I may be on a trail....perhaps!
Just been doing a little more on searches. We have a number of names, first and surnames and possible scenarios. The key names you have are Mary Dougall and a Nina. Then Molly's name which you have on records as Mary Welsh Dougall.
Now, your mother was called Nina Hendry Phillips. Making the assumption that Molly kept to Scottish naming pattern, likely this was her mother's name including surname. Also, we know Nina is likely to be a pet name for Molly's mother and the most common name linked to this is Ann.
There is a birth showing on Scotlands People (would need to be looked up or cert ordered as you know) for a MARY WELSH HENDRY in AIRDRIE, Lanarkshire in 1911. I would bet this is your Molly.
I found one possible family in 1901 which I am still trying to work on to find out some more:
James Dougall 44, coal miner b. Wishaw
Mary Dougall 30, b. Ireland
Thomas Dougall 14, b. Wishaw
Fanny Henry 14, step daughter b. America
Annie Henry 10 , step daughter b. America...Could this me NINA?
Mary Henry 6 , step daughter b. America...I am thinking this may be Mary Lampkin perhaps
James H Dougall 2, son b. Morningside, Lanarkshire
Address: 5 Chapel Old Row, Cambusnethan, Lanarkshire
Monica
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Interesting! I looked at that family in the census myself and really questioned them, mostly because of the Fannie listed, and because of them having 2 names, as the mother was married twice and also because of the closeness of Henry and Hendry. I know there was a Fannie in the family. I'll have to look at them more closely and see if I can cross-reference anything, like a May or Mary Hendry sailing to canada in or around 1919. May Lampkin reported that she had lived in Canada from 1919 on a record of landing in Canada after visiting Scotland.
You may well be onto something!!!
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Following the same theory that Nina called her daughter after her mother, you would guess that her mother was called Mary Welsh.
Just looked at the birth of the son John H Dougal who shows on that 1901 census entry. Father is showing as Thomas (Thomas/James?) and mother is showing as:
Mary Dougal, formerly Hendry, maiden name WELSH.
Looking good ;) This all fits well with family stories that you have of Mary Dougal being previously married. Nina (Ann) being a daughter from a previous marriage to X Hendry (or Henry and other variants). She would have been c. 21 when potential daughter Molly was born in 1911. Molly then brought up by Gran Mary Welsh/Henry/Dougal.
You need to verify all of this but hopefully some leads there to follow up....
Monica
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You're amazing!
I hd second thoughts about the Mary born in America, until I remembered that the mother, Mary, had been married to a gentleman who died in New York City, in the collapse of a tunnell he was working on. I didn't think that Mary had been there, but now I'm thinking she must have. I'll have to buy some more credits on SP and really look into things. I had all of this information, I just couldn't put the right names together! I tried Welsh, Dougall, Hendry, but maybe I just didn't get the right last names with right first names.
I bet you're right though!
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Closest I can see for a death for Mary Welsh is this one:
1944 Mary Welsh/Dougall, 72, in DALZIEL, LANARK, ref. 639/00 0251
You cannot tell from the index, for married women, which is the married surname or the maiden name unfortunately. You need to look at the actual image to confirm this.
Monica
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Sorry, meant to also include this. The marriage details for parents from son John H Dougall's birth entry gives marriage as having taken place on 30 April 1888 in Cambusnethan. Can't see it, even playing around with dates, names and using wildcards for spelling variations. It may be that they did not actually marry or that it was an 'irregular' marriage that won't show on the statutory registers.
Monica
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This might be husband Thomas in his first marriage in 1891 (I wonder if the 1901 census transcript is mis transcribed and has Thomas Snr. down as James :-\ specially given son John's birth entry in 1898):
Thomas Dougal 36, coal miner b. Wishaw
Ann J Dougal 36 b. Airdrie, Lanark
Thomas Dougal 5 b. Wishaw
Mary A Dougal 3 b. Wishaw
John Dougal 2 Wks b. Overtown, Lanark
Address: Wemysshill Row, Cambusnethan
Monica
Added: I keep on going on about birth of a John Hendry Dougal :P - it's James Hendry Dougal as showing on the 1901 census.
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This might help ::)
Marriage showing for a NINA HENDRY in 1914 in Cambusnethan. I've spent on units now so can't check further ;D Also a death showing in Lanarkshire in 1972 (outside of the period you can view on line) for a Nina Hendry b. 1892.
Monica
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Closest I can see for a death for Mary Welsh is this one:
1944 Mary Welsh/Dougall, 72, in DALZIEL, LANARK, ref. 639/00 0251
You cannot tell from the index, for married women, which is the married surname or the maiden name unfortunately. You need to look at the actual image to confirm this.
Monica
Mary died in canada in 2005. :)
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this has to be them. I've been on the right path, just veered off a little. I'm a beginner at all this! I'll have to confirm all of this and what not, but this MUST be them. Everything adds up almost perfectly. Monica, you've just made my day!!!!!
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Let us know how you get on ;)
Monica
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Sorry, meant to also include this. The marriage details for parents from son John H Dougall's birth entry gives marriage as having taken place on 30 April 1888 in Cambusnethan. Can't see it, even playing around with dates, names and using wildcards for spelling variations. It may be that they did not actually marry or that it was an 'irregular' marriage that won't show on the statutory registers.
Monica
Found this one
1897 DOUGALL THOMAS and WELSH MARY at CAMBUSNETHAN /LANARK
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That must be it Sancti ;) I wonder why they said 1888 - 1897 makes perfect sense given their first born son James was born in 1898 - maybe they felt they had been together for ever ::)
Monica
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You're such a romantic, Monica ;D
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Don't forget Sancti, that if it weren't for love, we wouldn't be here researching, nevermind doing anything else. ;)
Over the weekend I'm going to sort through what info I've got now, and try to put some sort of picture together. I'm away at our "weekend home" as we call it, which just means that I'm at our trailer, or "caravan" I think you guys call it, until next week. Monday or so, I'm going to get back on SP and do some digging to confirm all of this.
Sancti, I think you've hit the nail on the head with that marriage!
This family story is full of twists and turns, death and love, and mystery, of course!!! My aunt who still lives up in Timmins was able to sneak around and find some old newspaper clippings and provide a little more information, but I know she's driving herself mad waiting for me to finally shed some light on our "mystery".
You guys have been great!! thanks for your help - it's been the key to figuring things out! I'm sure there will be MUCH more digging - this is only one side of the family and the other side has it's own "mystery" that no one's been able to figure out yet either!
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Happy New Year,
Just joined the site after searching on google and finding a hit on Duthart/Wishaw.
I'm the son of Mary Dunlop Duncan (Ray), Born 1933, daughter of Andrew Duthart (coal miner) Bellside,Clelland, & Mary Sutherland, Loch Awe,Ardchattan.
(Married 3rd January, 1918 with a Maggie Douthart as a witness).
My mother's family were based in the Wishaw area and her father, I believe, came from Shotts.
I understand she was a cousin of Alex Duthart the pipe band drummer, so if anyone recognises a connection I'd would love to hear from you and anything you can add to the family tree.
God bless,
Derek
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Happy New Year,
Just joined the site after searching on google and finding a hit on Duthart/Wishaw.
I'm the son of Mary Dunlop Duncan (Ray), Born 1933, daughter of Andrew Duthart (coal miner) Bellside,Clelland, & Mary Sutherland, Loch Awe,Ardchattan.
(Married 3rd January, 1918 with a Maggie Douthart as a witness).
My mother's family were based in the Wishaw area and her father, I believe, came from Shotts.
I understand she was a cousin of Alex Duthart the pipe band drummer, so if anyone recognises a connection I'd would love to hear from you and anything you can add to the family tree.
God bless,
Derek
Hi Derek - I have a connection to Alex Duthart, and know much more than I did when I posted this! I don't know what information I can help you with but I can try! Likewise, I hope!
Beth
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Hi Beth,
Thank you for the quick reply!
I'm just trying to build up a picture of my mum's side of the family and especially to get to the root of the origination of the Duthart/Douthart name. My mum passed away three years ago and I'm also interested to know more of where the Dutharts have spread to over the years.
I remember being taken to meet Alex Duthart the drummer at a highland games event and being told we were related (second cousin removed?) and that my mum's father came from kiltinney in Coleraine (Born 1892, son of John Douthart). Interesting how the surname interchanges between Duthart and Douthart regularly.
Any info you have surrounding the names would be appreciated. It's funny, but my mum always thought the name came from the french and was a corruption of the surname 'du Toit' and now I find myself now trying to solve the mystery :)
Derek
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Hi!
Alex was either a cousin (first or second) or an uncle to my grandmother, but I can't remember which. Once I found the "right trail" I gave up on the Duthart connection, although there is a connection. Sorry I can't be of any help with the name though!
Hi Beth,
Thank you for the quick reply!
I'm just trying to build up a picture of my mum's side of the family and especially to get to the root of the origination of the Duthart/Douthart name. My mum passed away three years ago and I'm also interested to know more of where the Dutharts have spread to over the years.
I remember being taken to meet Alex Duthart the drummer at a highland games event and being told we were related (second cousin removed?) and that my mum's father came from kiltinney in Coleraine (Born 1892, son of John Douthart). Interesting how the surname interchanges between Duthart and Douthart regularly.
Any info you have surrounding the names would be appreciated. It's funny, but my mum always thought the name came from the french and was a corruption of the surname 'du Toit' and now I find myself now trying to solve the mystery :)
Derek
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Ok Beth, it was worth a shot and I'm sure someone will post something at some point in the future.
Many thanks again and hope you'll find answers to your thread/leads.
Derek :)
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Hey, I just found some notes I had scribbled down. Alex Duthart, born 1925, Cambusnethan. Parents: John Duthart and Martha Taylor, married: 1917 - Shotts. Martha could have been some close relation to Susan Taylor who was related to my grandmother.
Anything else I find, I'll pass on! Please do the same. :)
Ok Beth, it was worth a shot and I'm sure someone will post something at some point in the future.
Many thanks again and hope you'll find answers to your thread/leads.
Derek :)
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I'm just trying to build up a picture of my mum's side of the family and especially to get to the root of the origination of the Duthart/Douthart name. My mum passed away three years ago and I'm also interested to know more of where the Dutharts have spread to over the years.
I remember being taken to meet Alex Duthart the drummer at a highland games event and being told we were related (second cousin removed?) and that my mum's father came from kiltinney in Coleraine (Born 1892, son of John Douthart). Interesting how the surname interchanges between Duthart and Douthart regularly.
Any info you have surrounding the names would be appreciated. It's funny, but my mum always thought the name came from the french and was a corruption of the surname 'du Toit' and now I find myself now trying to solve the mystery :)
Just a few comments from Northern Ireland :)
The name almost always seems to appear as Douthart in the 1800s/early 1900s and found in several clusters although many sharing the same first names which may indicate a family link further back in time.
There are actually 4 Kiltinneys in the Coleraine area- Kiltinney Lower & Upper in Macosquin Parish, and Kiltinney Beg & More in Ballyaghran Parish.
If I'm reading the thread correctly then it is an Andrew Douthart supposed to be born 1892 Kiltinney but I can find no such birth registration.
If you'd like a bit more on the Coleraine Doutharts let me know.
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Hi,
I appreciate the info,many thanks.
I have a certified copy of the register of birth (number 441) of Andy Douthart.
Father John Douthart (labourer) and mother Mary Douthart (nee dunlop).
Registrar James Steel, district of Coleraine, Londonderry.
Any info on the Doutharts would great and apologies if the info above is misleading in any way, it's all I have and since it's a copy there could have been an error somewhere.
Best regards,
Derek
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Using the "Douth" version of the name, I tried the Cambusnethan cemetery records again. Here are 4 more entries, all for the same plot, E69. all dates are of burial.
HENRY DOUTHART, engine boiler fireman, Wishaw, aged 54 years, widower.
Parents - Steven Douthart & Rosetta McAlonan.
6th December 1893.
MARJORY ELIZABETH D. COLQUHOUN, Motherwell, aged 3 months.
Parents - William James Colquhoun & Alice B.J. Douthart.
20th May 1899.
THOMAS CRAIG, Motherwell, aged 7 days.
Parents - David K. Craig & Margaret Douthart.
30th August 1900.
WILLIAM COLQUHOUN, iron driller, Motherwell, aged 46 years, married.
Parents - Alexander Colquhoun & Margaret - - - - - .
28th August 1909.
Also, from the 1911 Motherwell Street Directory -
ALICE J.B. COLQUHOUN, Restaurateur, 398 Windmillhill Street, Motherwell.
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From the 1925 Wishaw Street Directory.
ALEXANDER COLQUHOUN, miner, No.71 1/2 Carfin Road.
THOMAS DOUGAL, labourer, 221 Low Main Street. (there wasn't an entry for 223).
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Hi there,
Thanks again for all the info. Not as easy finding the relatives as I thought it would be :).
Appreciate all the leads!
Derek
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It would most likely be Thomas Dougal as that would be the connection to my family, including Alex Duthart. Thomas Dougal married Mary Hendry and was her second husband.
From the 1925 Wishaw Street Directory.
ALEXANDER COLQUHOUN, miner, No.71 1/2 Carfin Road.
THOMAS DOUGAL, labourer, 221 Low Main Street. (there wasn't an entry for 223).
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Just a few details on Doutharts with Northern Ireland connections (not complete).
Stephen Douthart m. Rose McAlonan.
1. Maria Douthart (c1832 Ballymoney Parish). https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F5PF-YX7
2. Henry Douthart (c1839-1893 Scotland).
Also from Ballymoney are the following family:
Henry Douthart, son of Stephen Douthart, Bravellan, m.(14 June 1859 St. Patrick’s, Ballymoney) Jane Hargey. Meetinghouse Lane [Street], Ballymoney.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGCB-S3C
1. Nancy Douthart (1859-aft.1901) m. Neal Hardie. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F5PN-NTG
1881- Duke St. Hamilton; 1891- 3 Caledonia St., Glasgow; 1901- 39 Charles St., Glasgow
2. Ellen Jane Douthart (1861). https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F5PN-14N
3. Alice Jane Douthart (1863-aft.1891). 1891- 13 Quarry St., Hamilton, Lanarkshire, Scotland (all born Ireland): Alice Douthart, 27, dressmaker; sister Maggie Douthart, 13; sister Rosetta Douthart, 11, schoalr.
4. James Douthart (1 Apr.1866) m. Sarah Jane Brolly. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F5PJ-T4L
5. Margaret Douthart (21 Jan.1867). https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F55J-5TG
6. Ellen Hardy “Nellie” Douthart (16 May 1869). https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FPTG-CV9
1891- Govan: Nellie Hardy Douthart, 21, domestic servant.
7. Francis Henry Douthart (5 July 1871) m. Annie J. Colgan. U.S.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F566-DLH
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FPKF-S3V
8. Mariah “Minnie” Douthart (1873-aft.1891). 1891 & 1901- with sister Nancy Hardie.
9. Margaret Moore “Maggie” Douthart (1877-aft.1891).
10. Rosetta Douthart (17 Feb.1880-aft.1891).
and this family:
William Douthart, Bravellan, m. Mary Connelly.
1. Sarah “Sally” Douthart (1822-4 Nov.1889) m.(1848 1st Ballymoney) Daniel Long
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Wow! You're a walking historian!
I've had NO luck finding anything on my Irish connections. It's just a dead end from what I can find. It's great that you've been able to to dig all this up for him!
Just a few details on Doutharts with Northern Ireland connections (not complete).
Stephen Douthart m. Rose McAlonan.
1. Maria Douthart (c1832 Ballymoney Parish). https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F5PF-YX7
2. Henry Douthart (c1839-1893 Scotland).
Also from Ballymoney are the following family:
Henry Douthart, son of Stephen Douthart, Bravellan, m.(14 June 1859 St. Patrick’s, Ballymoney) Jane Hargey. Meetinghouse Lane [Street], Ballymoney.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGCB-S3C
1. Nancy Douthart (1859-aft.1901) m. Neal Hardie. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F5PN-NTG
1881- Duke St. Hamilton; 1891- 3 Caledonia St., Glasgow; 1901- 39 Charles St., Glasgow
2. Ellen Jane Douthart (1861). https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F5PN-14N
3. Alice Jane Douthart (1863-aft.1891). 1891- 13 Quarry St., Hamilton, Lanarkshire, Scotland (all born Ireland): Alice Douthart, 27, dressmaker; sister Maggie Douthart, 13; sister Rosetta Douthart, 11, schoalr.
4. James Douthart (1 Apr.1866) m. Sarah Jane Brolly. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F5PJ-T4L
5. Margaret Douthart (21 Jan.1867). https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F55J-5TG
6. Ellen Hardy “Nellie” Douthart (16 May 1869). https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FPTG-CV9
1891- Govan: Nellie Hardy Douthart, 21, domestic servant.
7. Francis Henry Douthart (5 July 1871) m. Annie J. Colgan. U.S.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F566-DLH
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FPKF-S3V
8. Mariah “Minnie” Douthart (1873-aft.1891). 1891 & 1901- with sister Nancy Hardie.
9. Margaret Moore “Maggie” Douthart (1877-aft.1891).
10. Rosetta Douthart (17 Feb.1880-aft.1891).
and this family:
William Douthart, Bravellan, m. Mary Connelly.
1. Sarah “Sally” Douthart (1822-4 Nov.1889) m.(1848 1st Ballymoney) Daniel Long
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Now for ones in Coleraine area.
John Douthart (c1826-5 Oct.1906), son of Samuel, m.(5 May 1855) Anne Jane Campbell (c1833-22 May 1881).
1901- www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Ballylagan/Daneshill/1521941
?1. Samuel Douthart (c1857-2 Feb.1889 Penna).
2. William Douthart (c1859-3 Apr.1909 Philadelphia).
3. Sophia Douthart (c1861-26 Aug.1864).
4. Sophia Douthart (31 Mar.1866 Portrush dist.).
5. Ellen Jane Douthart (31 July 1868 Portrush dist.).
Samuel Douthart (c1870) m.(Apr./June 1894 Coleraine) Elizabeth.
1901- www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Coleraine/Killowen_Street/1517875
1911- www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Ballycastle/Fairhill_Street/112747
1. John Douthart (c1894 Coleraine-KIA 29 Mar.1918). http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/RobertThompsonBallycastle.htm
2. Henry Douthart (c1897 Coleraine).
3. Andrew Douthart (July/Sept.1900 Coleraine).
4. Mary Douthart (c1904 Co.Antrim).
5. Samuel Douthart (c1908 Co.Antrim).
6. child (d.bef.1911).
Andrew Douthart (c1841?-Apr./June 1905) m. Hannah O’Brien (c1841-Apr./June 1912).
1. Mary Jane Douthart (c1862 Ballinteer). Bapt. 14 Feb.1862 2nd Dunboe.
2. Samuel Douthart (c1863 Ballinteer). Bapt. 1 June 1863 2nd Dunboe.
3. Ann Douthart (20 Aug.1867 Articlave dist.)
4. daughter (22 Aug.1874)
John Douthart (c1860) m.(1882) Mary Jane Dunlop? (c1863). 1901- Shotts, Lanark.
Marriage- John Dowthart.
1. Martha Jane Douthart (Jan./Mar.1884).
2. Mary Douthart (Oct./Dec.1885).
3. Joseph Douthart (1887).
4. John Douthart (1887).
5. Hannah Douthart (Apr./June 1890).
6. Andrew Douthart (1893).
7. William Douthart (1895).
8. Henry Douthart (1897).
(I have been unable to find all the birth registrations for this family in Irish records but suspect the problem is spelling of the surname)
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Not quite finished yet :)
Francis Henry Douthart (son of Henry Douthart & Jane Hargey):
1901- www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Duncairn_Ward/Ruth_Street/938768
A William Douthart & family here:
1901- www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Tamlaght/Drumnacanon/1521323
Henry Douthart & family (not far from Ballymoney):
1901- www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Armoy/Breen/920892
Possibly related to above Henry Douthart:
1911- www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Ballyhoe/Coolkeeran/127540
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Henry,
Can't believe the number of leads- you are a gentleman and true professional!
Very grateful indeed...
Derek
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Glad the information is of interest, Derek, but I'm not a gentleman ;D ;D ;D
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Henry,
Can't believe the number of leads- you are a gentleman and true professional!
Very grateful indeed...
Derek
I am Alistair, the son of Alex Duthart and I have been researching the surname for several years via Ireland, Holland and France.
Route 1 -
I have traced the French ancestry in 1126 to Macosquin 3 miles from Coleraine in 1289. Cistercian Monks travelled from a place called Tarte in France just below Dijon. Tarte was spelt Tharte in Latin at that time. The monks travelled with an entourage and were self sufficient. The entourage from Tharte may have used the Du Tharte surname. The present church in Macosquin is on the site of an original Cistercian Monastery. I have interviewed a present day Cistercian Monk in Portglenone and he gave me evidence of the original monastery location. A similar event happened in Wales and England where the name Tart is still in use to the present day. A tarte is a small hill in old French. The Abbey of Tarte originally run by Cistercian Nuns in France no longer exists but the wine they made on a small hill is still in production to this day. The wine is called Clos De Tarte. The old abbey was sited on the Rue Du Tarte. You can still see its outline in a field adjacent on Google Earth
Route 2
I have traced the name from Scotland back to Coleraine - 1740 - via the weaving trade connection but hit the buffers at around 1690 when records are scarce.
I am now investigating the possibility that our route from France could have come via the Huguenot weavers from Holland. I have found the surname in Holland , Belgium and Germany around the time of the Huguenot migration out of France. The route may have been directly from Belgium or via Cork and Southern Ireland.
My next move is to go back to Ireland early next year and find the last traces of Duthart, Douthart, Douthert before hitting France in the Summer.
I hope you are still reading these posts - If not and some one else is reading I would be glad to hear from anyone on the same journey.
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Hi I'm Michael, G. Grandson of Nancy Douthart from N Ireland. Her Mother's name was Jane Douthart (nee Hargy). Nancy Douthart married my G. Grandfather Neil Hargy /Hardie; they were second cousins.
Jane Douthart (nee Hargy) Married Henry Douthart (my G.G. Grand Parents.
Nancy and Neil lived in 39 Charles St, Glasgow and according to the 1901 census had Nancy's sister living with them at the time Minnie Douthart.
In the 1881 Census Nancy and Neil were living at Duke Street.
Jane Douthart was a Hargy (Hargy) from the Ballymoney area of C. Antrim.
Jane's parents were Neil Hargy and Nancy Anderson (again N Ireland)
Neil Hargy's parents were James Hargy b1780 and Helen McNichol.
Neil's brother James is the father of the Neil (my G. Grandfather) who married Nancy Douthart (the second cousin). Both Neil and James were Stonemasons apparently.
James b 1780 was the son of Patrick Hargy b circa 1750.
The Hargy's and Doutharts all trace back to what's now Northern Ireland around the Ballymoney area.
The Hargy's may well be of Huguenot origin possibly France.
(Acknowledgement to my Father's Second Cousin in Oz)