RootsChat.Com

General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: AlisonT on Thursday 29 July 10 15:14 BST (UK)

Title: WW1 and WW11 Army Chaplain Records
Post by: AlisonT on Thursday 29 July 10 15:14 BST (UK)
My grandfather was an Army Chaplain in both WW 1 and 11. He returned home safely from both. How do I find out his Army Record Number as only records of those who died seem to be available easily.
Title: Re: WW1 and WW11 Army Chaplain Records
Post by: Redroger on Thursday 29 July 10 15:52 BST (UK)
Get a look at the Army List for either or both conflicts. They are held at Kew, National Army Museum, and a variety of reference libraries. There you will find him, as I believe that all Army chaplains were given the rank of officer.
Title: Re: WW1 and WW11 Army Chaplain Records
Post by: stanmapstone on Thursday 29 July 10 16:27 BST (UK)
You could contact  the Museum of Army Chaplaincy
http://www.army.mod.uk/chaplains/museum/13117.aspx

Stan
Title: Re: WW1 and WW11 Army Chaplain Records
Post by: AlisonT on Friday 06 August 10 02:21 BST (UK)
Thanks for replies. I will check main reference library in Sydney for William Etienne WATTS and hope it holds the relevent resources.
Title: Re: WW1 and WW11 Army Chaplain Records
Post by: mattgibbs on Thursday 09 September 10 12:43 BST (UK)
Was he a New Zealand Chaplain? I'm a new member here interested in the chaplains service. I did a "quick" search in the medal index cards for WW1 and couldn't pick him out, but when I get home tonight I can check the Crockfords Directory to see if he was C of E. I have an immediate pre war Army List and will see if he is in that. If he rejoined after the start of the war he won't be but have another idea of how to find him if he was in the british Army.
regards
Matt
Title: Re: WW1 and WW11 Army Chaplain Records
Post by: AlisonT on Friday 10 September 10 00:23 BST (UK)
Thanks, Matt. Definitely in the British Army and was C Of E.  I found him in Crockfords, but, although very interesting as to where and when he was ordained etc, it didnt help me with his Army record. Still it might help you with your ideas. Any help gratefully accepted. Alison
Title: Re: WW1 and WW11 Army Chaplain Records
Post by: mattgibbs on Friday 10 September 10 08:22 BST (UK)
Well, thanks for that. I looked him up in my 1948 Crockfords which helps to narrow down his career in the forces. I see he was TCF 1917-1919 and then CF(EC) 1941-1944. This basically means he was ranked as a Temporary Chaplain to the Forces in WW1, a duration of war commission, and in WW2 he was a Chaplain to the Forces (Emergency Commission) which is more or less the same thing, serving for the duration.
Do you know if he was wounded, or sick, I'm just asking because he seems to have 'retired' in 1944 which obviously is short of the end of the war. He may have been ill?
I will have some more news later
Regards
Matt
Title: Re: WW1 and WW11 Army Chaplain Records
Post by: AlisonT on Sunday 12 September 10 04:24 BST (UK)
In later Crockfords it gives his actual retirement date as late 50s I think, can't find actual note at the moment, but he didnt die until feb 1965, buried at Knutsford.  I don't know if he was ill or wounded in 1944. Regards Alison
Title: Re: WW1 and WW11 Army Chaplain Records
Post by: mattgibbs on Tuesday 14 September 10 06:21 BST (UK)
Hello again;
Found some useful info for you. Sadly cannot [yet] find his date of demobilisation after WW1. But did find William Etienne Dumere Watts appointed to be ChF4 1st November 1917.
Also for WW2
230887 William Etienne Dumere Watts appointed ChF4 Emergency Commission 9th May 1942 and resigned his commission 14th September 1944.
If you want me to look into his service details for you I shall be happy to do so in a few weeks when I hope to visit the archive.
Also if you have any other info on his career I would be interested to know. You could always PM me if you prefer?
I forgot to add that ChF4 means Chaplain to the Forces 4th Class, ranked as Captain.
Regards
Matt Gibbs
Title: Re: WW1 and WW11 Army Chaplain Records
Post by: scrimnet on Tuesday 14 September 10 13:51 BST (UK)
Nice to see you on here Matt!!  ;D
Title: Re: WW1 and WW11 Army Chaplain Records
Post by: mattgibbs on Tuesday 14 September 10 18:52 BST (UK)
You too Sir. Excellent turnout at the weekend by the way. Must be in touch, I think I am catching the GW bug.
Regards
Matt
Title: Re: WW1 and WW11 Army Chaplain Records
Post by: AlisonT on Thursday 16 September 10 11:03 BST (UK)
Thanks for info, Matt. Anything to do with my gfather's war service would be great. I take it that the number before his nameis his Army Record number? I see my topic got moved..lol. Regards Alison
Title: Re: WW1 and WW11 Army Chaplain Records
Post by: AlisonT on Saturday 12 May 12 11:11 BST (UK)
Hello after a long interval Matt,
Due to one thing and another, Family History has had to take a back seat for ages! I was just wondering if you ever managed to find out any further details on WW1 and WW2 service of my grandfather. (William Etienne Dumere WATTS) Would his service number have been the same for both wars? Was he posted overseas, I think so? Hope all is well with you, Alison
Title: Re: WW1 and WW11 Army Chaplain Records
Post by: mattgibbs on Sunday 13 May 12 07:22 BST (UK)
Hello there;
I didn't find out anything more on his service, but I can possibly ask someone next week. Yes, the number before his name is his service number, as published in the London Gazette when he was commissioned. His retirement would also have been published. It is quite likley he may have been posted overseas. I shall try and find out for you.
regards
Matt
Title: Re: WW1 and WW11 Army Chaplain Records
Post by: AlisonT on Monday 21 May 12 08:20 BST (UK)
Thanks, Matt, I look forward to hearing from you with any snippets you may find. Would the service number have been the same for both wars, or are we still searching for his service number for WW1?
Regards Alison
Title: Re: WW1 and WW11 Army Chaplain Records
Post by: mattgibbs on Monday 21 May 12 14:40 BST (UK)
His 230### service number is for World War 2, yes.

Things were done differently for the chaplains in WW1. I'm not quite so sure about Chaplain's, as officers, having service numbers - I guess I've just never had to look them up, if indeed they did have them - they might not have. What other kind of info are you looking for? I am thinking of going to the Army Chaplain's museum later in the summer :)

Regards
Matt