RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cambridgeshire => England => Cambridgeshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: sking on Tuesday 27 July 10 18:22 BST (UK)
-
I am really stuck, any help very much appreciated
Trying to find a burial of Mary King and a marriage of Elizabeth? to Robert King
Robert King (bac) married Mary Baker (sp) both of this parish at Melbourn on 14th Oct 1788. In 1805 on 6 Jan at Melbourn PC a number of Kings were baptised as being of Robert and Mary. They were John (b 16/6/1790), Lydia (b 12/11/1792), Elizabeth (b 4/9/1794), James (b 23/4/1796), Ann
(b 4/3/1798), and Joseph (b 2/3/1800).
On the same day and date Ellis (b 8/11/1804) was also baptised but as being of Robert and Elizabeth.
My theory is that Mary must have died some time after the birth of Joseph. Robert then married Elizabeth and she had all her step children baptised at the same time as her first born.
Robert and Elizabeth went on to have other children that were also baptised at Melbourn PC - William (b 15/4/1806), Susanna (b 21/5/1808), and Sarah (b 24/3/1810). In 1817 at Melbourn Independent chapel, Frederick was also baptised as being of Robert and Elizabeth.
Robert King died 5 Jan 1837 aged 72, and is buried at Melbourn Independent chapel, so he would have been born approx 1765.
Elizabeth died 1848 in Melbourn aged 66. She is described on the death certificate as relict of Robert King ( Baker).
Elizabeth is a baker on the 1841 census.
Robert and Elizabeth were not married at Melbourn or Meldreth
-
Baptism Melbourn Cambs
Robert King
06 th Jan 1766
Father-James King
Mother-Mary
Welsh Lady
-
Many thanks for this information.......but where on earth did you find it? I have scoured the original register, the transcripts on the shelves at the record office and I have the CD of Melbourn etc registers.
There was a marriage of James King and Mary Ellis at Meldreth PC on 3 March 1761. I had long thought they might be Roberts parents and also the connection with Mary's surname as christian names down the generations.
-
From the new record search pilot on Family Search
Welsh Lady
-
Thank you again, I really do appreciate your time and effort.
Can anyone search this and if so how does one go about it? Am I right in thinking that this is part of the IGI, where anyone once upon a time anyone could submit an entry without proof?
I don't want to look a gift horse etc, but if I have not found the baptism in any of the sources listed in my last post, and others over the years that have transcribed the registers, then I have to assume that someone has put that entry in without anything to substantiate it.
-
no its not member submitted.its subscribed from the parish records i believe.Dosent say what Church though so could be non conformist ?
Take a look yourself
Good Luck
Welsh Lady
-
Thank you again, the Melbourn Kings have a history of being non conformists. The Independent aka Congregational chapel records are very sketchy and do not survive for that period. The only other place could be the Baptist church, but I'm sure I looked at their records years ago and had no luck.
Would someone who visits the record office be able to confirm if this entry exists please?
Robert King
06 th Jan 1766
Father-James King
Mother-Mary
This info is so tantalising, especially as it gives a day, it has got to of come from somewhere........but where?
-
This entry is on the BVRI, so is not a member submission. It's LDS film number 990256 which is a transcription from the original registers, compiled and indexed by T. P. R. Layng.
I have always found his transcripts to be very reliable. I don't know if he compared the PR to the BT - have you also looked at the BT as occasionally entries were added to the BT which aren't in the PR?
David
-
I'm sure I looked at the BT's along with the original register, but as I say that was some years ago.
I think its time I had another visit to Cambridge Record Office.
Thank you again for all the help given. I will report back with my findings incase it may help someone else.
ETA, Why can't I find this entry on the normal IGI? I am having probs loading whats needed for the pilot search that welsh lady suggested.
-
ETA, Why can't I find this entry on the normal IGI?
Because Melbourn hasn't been extracted by the LDS. But the Layng transcript is on the BVRI, which can be found on Ancestry and on the pilot LDS site, as well as on a CDRom set
I am having probs loading whats needed for the pilot search that welsh lady suggested.
It worked fine for me using the welsh link
David
-
Hi,
This Mary seems the right age but her death seems a bit late,
Mary KING
Date of burial: 1807
Age: 38
Place of burial: Melbourn
Dedication: All Saints
There are children born in Melbourn to James and Mary so it could be her instead.
Do you have this christening?
Mary KING
Birth: 15 Jan 1789
Baptism: 11 August 1792
Melbourne, Cambridge
Father: Robert KING
Mother: Mary
Regards,
Daisy
-
Hello Daisy, thank you so much for helping. The Mary King that died age 38 in 1807, was I believe Mary nee Hicks. She was a spinster otp when she married James King (bac) otp on 15 Oct 1798 at Melbourn PC. Their children Mary ( b sept 1799) Charlotte ( b Dec 1801)
Joel ( b Mar 1806) were all baptised at Melbourn PC.
James ( wid) otp then married Sarah Huggins (sp) otp 22 Feb 1808 at Melbourn PC
Do you have this christening?
Mary KING
Birth: 15 Jan 1789
Baptism: 11 August 1792
Melbourne, Cambridge
Father: Robert KING
Mother: Mary
No I don't, has this information come from the same source as Robert Kings baptism that I was querying ? I must admit I'm becoming a little paranoid thinking that this information may of been missed be me when I used to spend days at Cambridge record office making notes of all the Melbourn Kings :-[
-
My sanity has been restored by a lovely lady archivist at Cambridge. She very kindly undertook a search for me for the baptism of Robert King in 1766, Melbourn.
The original parish register
Layng transcript that includes Bishops transcripts
Melbourn Baptist Church......no records for that period.
Melbourn Independent Chapel......no records for that period
Nothing found!
So along with my original searches and whatever source the Cambridgeshire Family History Society took their search from to produce the Melbourn CD, we have all come up with nothing.
Could someone please point me in the right direction as to who I need to get in touch with from the LDS to try and authenticate the entry that is on their site?
-
My sanity has been restored by a lovely lady archivist at Cambridge. She very kindly undertook a search for me for the baptism of Robert King in 1766, Melbourn.
The original parish register
Layng transcript that includes Bishops transcripts
Melbourn Baptist Church......no records for that period.
Melbourn Independent Chapel......no records for that period
Nothing found!
So along with my original searches and whatever source the Cambridgeshire Family History Society took their search from to produce the Melbourn CD, we have all come up with nothing. The Original Bishops Transcripts are in the University Library, so that maybe where this entry was found?
Could someone please point me in the right direction as to who I need to get in touch with from the LDS to try and authenticate the entry that is on their site?
-
Hi,
Yes I got the info from the same source used by welsh lady,
http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start
I've found that this is becoming a great resource for records I haven't been able to find on other internet sites.
Daisy
-
The BVRi has 9 children of Richard and Mary baptised in Melbourn, followed by four of Richard and Elizabeth
-
Thank you again, I think I need to go and have a lie down in a dark room! I am sure someone somewhere is inventing these entries
If you look at my original post you will see that I have the six children listed of Robert and Mary and then the four of Robert and Elizabeth.
On the record search pilot ( have finally managed to get into it) there are another 3 children listed that really do not make any sense and are not on my records. These are Mary ( b 15 Jan 1789) that Daisypetal pointed out, John (b 23 June 1790) both baptised on 11th Aug 1792 and Lydia ( b 30 Oct 1793) no baptism date given.
I will get the bottom of the supposed baptism of Robert King if it kills me. Any pointers as to how to do it will be gratefully received :)
-
Id contact the LDS with the film number David ,Bedfordshire Boy found in earlier post and ask what Church/Chapel the records are transcribed from?
Submitted entries can obviouly be wrong but not usually transcribed records maybe spelling mistakes etc but i wouldnt expect a whole family to be wrong and the dates look correct for the children?
Theyve been transcribed from some source
you say in previous post that records for the Baptist and Independant are not in Record office did you ask if they exist and they havent got them.Record offices dont always hold all the non conformist records .In my local one they didnt have the Chapel records for where i wanted but The Chapel did which is where the verger let me read them.
Worth a shot contacting LDS
Welsh Lady
-
I spoke to one of the sisters at the Family History Centre. She said that they have the film that I need, so I am hoping to visit there sometime next week to clear this up once and for all re Robert Kings baptism.
Thank you everyone for all your help and suggestions, I really do appreciate it. If you are not sick of reading about this, I will report back my findings.
-
Because the LDS Family history Centre did not close till 9pm yesterday, I went down there as I live in London. The upshot is that my heart sank when I realised the film they produced was just a copy of the Layng transcript ( that I have consulted many times at Cambs record office) they also could not understand why the film number reference 990296, does not have any of the entries that I was querying.
I have now emailed the contact on the LDS site and asked them where they aquired the information. All the ones that I think are suspect all have the same Indexing project number C01736-7.
I really don't understand how something that does not exist on a film can be indexed and attributed to such. My money is still on that these entries have been member submitted. Maybe someone somewhere has an old family bible.......mind you, I would still want to see the old copper plate writing with my own eyes!
The moral of this story is, just because an entry in the pilot search has a film and index number, it still may not even exist.
-
I have finally got to the bottom of this and hope that this may be of help to others.
The baptism entries do exist in the original parish register but not in the date order. The LDS in Utah sent me an attachment of the page from the Lyang transcript that states that the third register finishes in 1780 but contains the following entries which appear not to be a proper part of the register. It then goes on to list my Kings as well as other names. The archivist at the Cambs record office confirms that they are there and of the period ie 18th century......not a later addition written in biro on a piece of basildon bond and stuck in the register.
The entries do not appear on the Melbourn/Meldreth CD produced by Cambs Family History Society, so I assumed that they did not exist. I will know in future to look at EVERY page in a transcript as well as the original register just incase something has been added willy nilly and not in any sort date order.
Now that part is cleared up, is it ok to paste my original post on the main part of the board ?
-
Delighted that you've cracked it, and delighted also that my confidence in Mr Layng wasn't misplaced!
David
-
Hi folks
If it's any help I've just received a copy of the Robert King baptism from the same nice lady at the record office. It's very poor quality and as someone else has mentioned, it all seems to be random rather than in neat chronological order.
There seem to be some very strange entries regarding the children of Robert King and Mary. There are baptisms of Mary and John on 11th August 1792, with birthdates 15th Jan 1789 and 23rd June 1790 respectively. Then there is a note of Lydia, born 30th October 1793, but no baptism. These records seem to be on a separate piece of paper insterted into the parish register. I also have a copy of the other baptisms mentioned earlier which took place on 6th Jan 1805, including John and Lydia, but with different birth dates! No mention of Mary, so maybe she died. All a bit wierd.
No luck with finding Mary's burial either or Robert's marriage to Elizabeth.