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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: NZvixx on Sunday 25 July 10 07:04 BST (UK)
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my mothers Grandad was born in New York in 1874 (11th March)
James Thomas Rogers
this is pretty much all the info we have on him from the US
his future wife sailed from Liverpool, England to Phil. in 1894 and by 1897 she & James were married (I think!) and living in England and had their first of 7 children that year
there are later records from the UK to indicate he remained there. There is also a WWII draft card stamped by the US consulate in Manchester, UK. It gives his home address as Phil, Penn so I wonder if that's where his parents moved to from NY.
I have a birth cert of a Rogers baby born on the right date in NY but not sure if it actually is his - there is no name on the cert for the baby so possibly a stillborn, and if I look at that family in the next census he is not showing.
Keep coming up against dead ends and could do with ANY help or advice :)
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What were the parents' names on the birth certificate? Where was the family in the census? Is it possible he was a twin & the other twin was stillborn?
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World War I Draft Registration
September 20, 1918 Philadelphia Pennsylvania
James Thomas Rogers born March 11, 1874 Native born citizen
Employed as an Iron Planer working for Victoria Iron Works Denton, Pennsylvania
Married with 2 children
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World War I Draft Registration
September 20, 1918 Philadelphia Pennsylvania
James Thomas Rogers born March 11, 1874 Native born citizen
Employed as an Iron Planer working for Victoria Iron Works Denton, Pennsylvania
Married with 2 children
yes - got copy of that
it's actually Denton in Manchester, UK and is stamped by Manchester US consulate
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What were the parents' names on the birth certificate? Where was the family in the census? Is it possible he was a twin & the other twin was stillborn?
I suppose it could have been twins but James doesn't show on the census with the family after??
mother is Nellie F. Lown
and father John E. Rogers
address 307 w.28th street, New York
d.o.b. 11 March 1874 (the same date that James puts on his WWII draft registration card)
I got this cert via NYC record dept when I emailed them with details of his d.o.b etc but I'm not convinced it's him as full name of child is blank on cert
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What was his wife's name?
I see in 1911 they have a child Hannah Ashbrook Rodgers.
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html
- NJ marriage in 1896 for James T. Rodgers to Mary A. Ashbrook, I'm not sure if the original might show further info.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~usher/ushersct/5510.htm
- this shows a marriage in NJ in 1887 (scroll down to 6 "Marriage Return; Usher, Walter Scott b. 1864 and have a look at the image) which does have quite a lot of info on it so presumably what's on the pilot search is just an index.
http://www.state.nj.us/state/darm/links/reference.html#collections
- I believe you'd apply here to get a copy of the marriage.
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What was his wife's name?
I see in 1911 they have a child Hannah Ashbrook Rodgers.
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html
- NJ marriage in 1896 for James T. Rodgers to Mary A. Ashbrook, I'm not sure if the original might show further info.
Blimey thank you!!!
that looks like their marriage - I never thought to search under New Jersey (had only tried NY & Phil)
His wife was Mary Ann Ashbrook
I'll see if I can get a cert and hopefully his parents names from it (fingers crossed or I'll come to a halt again!)
not sure what your link about Usher was though?!?!
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Hi ;D
I think Jo posted the link to the USHER marriage, to illustrate what levels of information you may find on a New Jersey marriage record - ie: for your RODGERS / ASHBROOK marriage (esp re parentage etc).
Not sure if you already have this but this looks like their return to the UK in 1897
SS PENNLAND , departed Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - Arrived Liverpool 10 Jun 1897
Embarked Philadelphia:
Jams T RODGERS 23, Machinist, Foreign born
May RODGERS 22, wife, English born
The forenames are written as what looks like Jams and May - but the writing is such that it's pretty clear the writer is scooting over his 'e' and 'r' formations in such a way they are not obvious!
I would have to agree with your doubt about the birth cert for the male ROGERS child with the same DoB as your James. Below, this looks very much like the parents of that child.....the surname of the wife's mother LUNN is near to "LOWN" and the wife is stated as having had 2 of her chidren died before 1900, and possibly at least one of those before 1880.
1880: 6th Avenue - New York City, New York
Head: John E ROGERS, 30, White, male - US Weigher, b NY, Father b Conn, Mother b Virginia
Wife: Helen F ROGERS 30, white, female, b NY, parents b NY
Mother-in-Law: Charlotte LUNN 53, white, female, widow, b NY, parents b NY
1900: 340 Grand Avenue, New York City, New York
Head: John E ROGERS 50, US Weigher, b Apr 1850 Maryland, father b Conn, mother b Virginia
Married 28 years (from abt 1872) to:
Wife: Helen F ROGERS 43, b Oct 1856 NY, parents b NY, birthed 3 children - only 1 still living.
Dau: Lillian A ROGERS 15, b Jul 1884 NY, father b Maryland, mother b NY
Lodger: Albert P SOUTHWICK 45, wid, Author, b May 1855, b Mass, parents b Mass.
Cheers
AMBLY
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oh thanks for that info - am so glad I came on here, just a few days ago too and now I have several new pieces of info.
I've got the order form off that website so will hopefully get a marriage certificate with James parents details (I already know Marys info from UK records) the vital names on there should get my mum some of the info she's always wanted to know about the mysterious origins of her American grandfather she never met :)
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This is an old posting of mine but I am still no further with it and would REALLY love some help !!
I got the marriage cert for James & Mary but it is very little help as doesn't give his parents info (it also says Mary was born in US which I know is incorrect as I've got all her English records etc!)
I'm totally baffled how to get any further with this. I'm in New Zealand so am finding it a little difficult to look into his New York birth any further ( I am pretty sure that cert cannot be for him but I keep thinking .. it IS for the same birthdate he gives in his own documents later)
Can anyone advise what I should do next? This is not that far back, only my gt.grandfather, surely I can get past this hiccup?! Another side of my family tree I've traced goes back to 1728 !
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Were any witnesses listed on the marriage certificate?
Do you know if he was definitely born in New York City or just in New York state in general? Unfortunately, statewide registration of vital records wasn't required in New York state until 1881, so his birth record would be held on the local level, if it exists.
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There's one witness Florence Price and a signature of Minishter but I'm struggling to read it to be honest! How can I load a picture up?
On the 1918 US WWI draft registration card that James Thomas Rogers filled in he inserted his home address as Philadelphia, Pa (although he had physically lived in UK since 1897)and for where born he put: New York, NY, USA - so I'm guessing that means New York city born.
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You can't load pictures on the US Lookup Requests board, but I can move the thread to the main US board so you can do so.
You're right on New York, NY - it generally refers to Manhattan, a borough of New York City.
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marriage cert...
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I think the Reverend is Rev. M.H. Van Horn, M.E.C.? Or maybe W.H. Van Horn?
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What is my next step?
How can I trace my American gt. grandfather if his parents aren't named on his marriage cert and I haven't got a birth cert?
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Can anyone help me how to proceed with this? I feel like I'm at a real brick wall :(
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I guess you could try recontacting the Municipal Archives & make sure he's the only one that fits. There's a volunteer on www.raogk.org who does research there, so maybe it would help to have someone who's looking for the right thing for you.
Since it has the father's name as James on the marriage certificate, maybe we can see if there's anyone who is a likely match on the census. Since he didn't know where his parents were born or his mother's maiden name, maybe he was raised by someone else or his parent(s) died young?
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Good morning...
Do you have this entry?
1880 US Census
NY - St Lawrence - De Kalb - District 193
William Rogers - 45 - Mill Wright - Born in Pennsylvania
Jane 33 - Born in NY
Edward 15 "
Mary 11 "
Elizabeth 9 "
James 6 "
Matilda Birkie 58 Mother In Law Born in Canada
Just because someone is born in "New York", I would not assume they were born in New York City.
If a family comes from a rural area such as Pennsylvania, and they moved and the father kept his same/similar occupation, chances are they would move to a rural area in New York (more upstate New York). Of course this isn't always the case, but sometimes it can be a clue. ::)
Deborah
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Just because someone is born in "New York", I would not assume they were born in New York City.
I agree, but it was mentioned above that he wrote on his WWI Draft Registration card that he was born in New York, NY. Always the chance that the info he gave could have been incorrect, but New York, NY = Manhattan.
Also, the marriage certificate lists James' father as James.
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1895 and 1896 2751 Garnet has a Francis Johnson living there.
Can not find the Howard address.
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I guess you could try recontacting the Municipal Archives & make sure he's the only one that fits. There's a volunteer on www.raogk.org who does research there, so maybe it would help to have someone who's looking for the right thing for you.
Thanks - have sent them an email request :)
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1895 and 1896 2751 Garnet has a Francis Johnson living there.
Can not find the Howard address.
I'm wondering how much truth was told on that marriage certificate.... it states wife was born in US (and her parents) and I know for a FACT they were all born in the UK ::)
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Hello NZvixx,
You have the correct birth cert with dob 11 March 1874 for your gt. grandad - the son of John E. Rogers & Nellie F. Leown. As you have explained the birth cert does not have the name of the child.
I researched the records of the US Consulate, Manchester, England which are held at the US Archives, Washington, DC. I found more records for your gt grandad. Besides the US WWI draft registation for James T. Rogers there are documents for
Application for Registration - Native Citizen - 2 pages
Affidavit to Explain Protracted Foreign Residence - 2 pages
transcript copy of Return of Birth, Dept of Health, City of NY
I can email you these documents if you want to send me an email address.
Your mystery remains - where is this family of John Rogers, wife Nellie & son James in the 1880 census & any other NYC records.
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Blimey that's an amazing find! Thank you so much - will message you my email address now ;D
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You have the correct birth cert with dob 11 March 1874 for your gt. grandad - the son of John E. Rogers & Nellie F. Leown. As you have explained the birth cert does not have the name of the child.
Your mystery remains - where is this family of John Rogers, wife Nellie & son James in the 1880 census & any other NYC records.
MANY many thanks to the wonderful Robinbird for the great information found.
NEXT problem... finding John & Nellie and any siblings when they do not appear to be in the census
The birth cert has the address 307 W 28th St.
Can anyone can figure out where this location is in the 1880 census - what ward of the city - what enumeration district - possible the name was not indexed correctly.
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They may have moved in the interim. I checked the 1876 & 1880 New York City directories and I don't see a John or a James Rogers at that address in either of them.
Considering all the issues with this man - no first name on the birth certificate, a different name for the father on the marriage record than the birth record, no info about mother's name or either parents' place of birth on the marriage certificate - I wouldn't be terribly surprised if he wasn't raised by his parents. Perhaps his wife gave the information for the marriage record and she didn't know much, but it still strikes me that something may be off here.
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maybe he was orphaned.
Or raised in England.
How did NY guy meet English girl?
Who is Francis Johnson?
City Directory 1895 and 1896 2751 Garnet (from marriage cert)has a Francis Johnson living there.
:-\ :( ??? ???
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??? ??? ??? ???
1873, 1874, 1875 NY City Dir
307 W 28th
Schermerhorn
Cornelius P lawyer
Aaron W vinegar
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maybe he was orphaned.
Or raised in England.
How did NY guy meet English girl?
he definately wasn't raised in England - he was American and she came over with her family (to Philadelphia) at some point within the next few years they've obviously met up and married but when she was expecting 1st child they returned to England so she could "lay in" at her parents house.
I do not understand a lot of the other details and am completely baffled by this family ???