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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wicklow => Topic started by: wyanga on Sunday 25 July 10 01:49 BST (UK)
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Hi I am wondering if anyone can help me find more information on my g grandmother Eliza Doyle. The information that I have is sketchy and mixed.
She arrived in Australia aboard "Ida" 17 Jan 1864 aged 19 yrs as an assisted migrant. She gave her parents names as John Doyle and Bridget and had a step brother Richard Barry in the colony. She was RC and this gives a birth date of about 1845.
On her marriage certificate she gives her birthplace as Baltinglass, Wicklow
and her parents as John Doyle farmer and mother Eliza Macasin.
This seems to indicate that her mother may have died and that John Doyle had remarried Bridget, possibly a widow with a son Richard Barry ??
Her birth date and her parents marriage would be before official records began. Can anyone help me with a look up of RC parish records for Baltinglass. ???
As you have most likely gathered I am in Aus. and have to rely on the internet for searching. Any help would be appreciated
Wyanga
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RC Baptisms for for Co. Wicklow are available on the pay-website of the Irish Family History Foundation at : www.irish-roots.ie Their list of sources mentions records for Balitinglass from about 1819.
Shane
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Shane,
Thank you for that I will check it out. Seems like a good place to start.
Wyanga
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Shane
I seem to have a problem. I don't get a result for Eliza Doyle, baptism, Baltinglass 1840 + or - 5. Thought I would try for a marriage for Eliza Macasin in all of Wicklow and got nil result. My information seems to be faulty.
I did come up with 15 baptisms for Eliza/Elizabeth Doyle in Wicklow but at 5 euros a time, gets a bit expensive, to check them all.
On her marriage certif. her mothers name is definately written Eliza Macasin.
Can anyone suggest an alternative to Macasin if it were mispronounced or misspelt ??? Eliza signed with an X so must have been illiterate and would not have been aware of an error.
Wyanga
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.....
I seem to have a problem. I don't get a result for Eliza Doyle, baptism, Baltinglass 1840 + or - 5. Thought I would try for a marriage for Eliza Macasin in all of Wicklow and got nil result. My information seems to be faulty... I did come up with 15 baptisms for Eliza/Elizabeth Doyle in Wicklow but at 5 euros a time, gets a bit expensive, to check them all.
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The IFHF only have baptisms available for county Wicklow at the moment.. there's no marriages
You can narrow down baptism searches by using the father's first name and the parish. By Baltinglass she could have meant the area rather than town itself, although the parish covers quite a large area surrounding the town, and also includes a small part of Co. Kildare. It appears that all available records for the parish on the IFHF system are included under Wicklow.
Shane
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Quote...... The information that I have is sketchy and mixed.
She arrived in Australia aboard "Ida" 17 Jan 1864 aged 19 yrs as an assisted migrant. She gave her parents names as John Doyle and Bridget and had a step brother Richard Barry in the colony. She was RC and this gives a birth date of about 1845.
On her marriage certificate she gives her birthplace as Baltinglass, Wicklow
and her parents as John Doyle farmer and mother Eliza Macasin.
As I said earlier my information is mixed. Another look at the immigration details says that she was a native of " Lochnavaugh " Carlow and that her parents were ? Doyle and Bridget of Lochnavaugh. The latter is very hard to read and has been transcribed as such. To me it looks more like 'Loughanagael'
Are either of those in Carlow ? It appears as if IFHF does not have Carlow records up yet.
Wyanga
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The IFHF dont have any records for Co. Carlow, but the IrishGenealogy (http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/) website does. They only have Church of Ireland records at the moment, but believe they plan to add RC records at some stage.
I dont see anywhere in Co. Carlow named Lochnavaugh/Loughanagael or similar.... not many 'L' placenames in Carlow, and no 'Lough' names. You can check the townland database at : www.thecore.com/seanruad
Baltinglass is close to the Co. Wicklow borders with both Kildare and Carlow - see google map : Baltinglass to Castledermott (Kildare) to Rathvilly (Carlow) (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Baltinglass,+Co.+Wicklow,+Ireland+&daddr=Castledermot,+Ireland+to:Rathvilly,+Ireland&geocode=%3B%3BFcDlJgMdjNeZ_ylliWmMlYpnSDEgjjGXqccACg&hl=en&mra=ls&sll=52.91138,-6.7663&sspn=0.121326,0.21801&ie=UTF8&ll=52.892542,-6.766205&spn=0.121379,0.21801&z=12)
Shane
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Shane,
You are correct , there isn't anything remotely resembling those names in the townlands or Parishes for Carlow, Kildare or Wicklow.
I am beginning to wonder if I have the correct immigration, Eliza Doyle. I do have the correct marriage certificate and death cert. and the former gives Baltinglass, Wicklow as the birth place and the latter gives Wicklow as where born.
So I am back to square one. I got no results for a baptism at Parish Baltinglass, with father John Doyle over a 10 year search period.
I think that I am going to have to put this one in the "too hard" basket for now. Thank you Shane for the time that you have put into this for me and your help with places to search. Maybe some more definitive info will turn up sometime.
Wyanga
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Shane
I have just found a John Doyle in the Griffiths valuation for the Baltinglass Parish. Wicklow County
Townland Baltinglass West
Place name Relan St. Printed date 1854 So this should be my John Doyle. :D
There is hope yet !
Wyanga
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I have just about accepted that I have the wrong Eliza Doyle in immigration, and that is where I got her being RC. So may have been COI. She married a protesant in Sydney in 1865. The marriage was in the Regestry office which could mean a mixed marriage, or just that neither had family in Australia.
IHIF records for COI don't appear to commence until 1877 which is too late for my search.
Does anyone know if there are any gravestone inscriptions available for Baltinglass, Wicklow ?
Wyanga
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I have found that there are gravestone inscriptions for ;Baltinglass Abbey
Baltinglass St Josephs RC, and Baltinglass St Mary's CofI.
They are held at the Dublin City Library
This doesn't help me a lot as they are not accessable on the internet.
A site that may help others locate the whereabouts of various record in Ireland.
http://homepage.eircom.net/~genbruce/MyGenealogy/Genealogy8Wi.html
Wyanga
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Hi, Try Casin or Cassin. There's Cassins in Dublin. Mount Brown, Killmainham area.
Not sure of the spelling. Maggie
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Johnmaggie11
Thank you Maggie for the suggestion. There are alot of Cashin, Cashen and even a couple of McCashin and McCashen in various counties in Ireland except for Wicklow. I tried for baptisms 1820-1830, searching for Casin, this period should have covered Eliza mothers birth period, if Eliza was born about 1845. Only found 3 Elizabeth Cashin, 2 in Kilkenny and one in Tipperary.
The name McCashin looks hopeful for my Macasin but the only ones were in Co Down.
Not the same problem with John Doyle, I got 117 for that period in co Wicklow. but the search doesnt provide specific places without viewing each one at 5 euros a time.
Wyanga
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Hello again, if you are sure about the mac or the mc in front of the name, I would suggest you look at the Co. Down side. Mac + Mc tells me it's definately a northern Ireland name as that's where the macs originated from. I'm speaking geographically now, I don't mean just the six counties.
Maggie
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...I tried for baptisms 1820-1830, searching for Casin, this period should have covered Eliza mothers birth period, if Eliza was born about 1845. Only found 3 Elizabeth Cashin, 2 in Kilkenny and one in Tipperary.
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Not the same problem with John Doyle, I got 117 for that period in co Wicklow. but the search doesnt provide specific places without viewing each one at 5 euros a time.
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I assume the searches you mentioned are of the IrishRoots/IFHF website ?
if so be very careful making assumptions about the results you get as they are incomplete. The database does not include a number of counties and areas in Ireland. e.g. they exclude two major population centres - the cities of Dublin and Cork, half of Co. Cork, counties Clare, Wexford, Carlow, Kerry, Offaly etc
Shane
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Johnmaggie 11
Thank you Maggie for that info re Mac and Mc. Would that be from the Scottish influence in the North ?
I am reasonably sure that Eliza Doyle's mother was Eliza Macasin from her marriage certificate, but as she was illiterate I assume that it would have been spelt phonetically, hence my interest in McCashin/McCashen.
Shanew 147
Yes it was IrishRoots/IFHF that I searched and yes I am aware of the limitations on the information available. I noted that the baptisims for the C of I for Baltinglas did not commence until 1877 and it would have been the 1820- 1840 period which may have provided me with information.
I note from your interests that you include Doyle, Wicklow
Would you know of any other web sites that I could try ???
Wyanga
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Shanew 147
Hi Shane,
I have gone back to the Griffiths valuation on the aboutireland site and checked on the parishes surronding Baltinglass.
Baltinglass : Eliza Doyle , house in Delan St
John Doyle , house in Delan St
Ballynure : Griffinstown Upper, John Doyle house and garden
There is also a John Cashen nearby
Rathbran : John Doyle house offices and land ( abt 3 acres )
John Doyle jun. house land offices and land ( 10 acres )
Donaghmore: Leitrim, Eliza Doyle house offices and land ( 30 acres )
Randalstown, John Doyle land ( 2acrs 3 R )
John Doyle house and offices ( may be same person)
On my Eliza Doyle's marriage certif. in 1864 she has father John Doyle farmer but it does not say deceased or living. There do not appear to be a lot of Doyles in the area to choose from but the ones in Rathbran and Donaghmore would appear to be the only ones that could be classified as farmers.
This runs counter to my Eliza's birthplace of Baltinglass.
It would appear that without a baptism record or a marrige for her parents that I am unable to identify the correct family
A frustrated Wyanga :-\
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....
I noted that the baptisims for the C of I for Baltinglas did not commence until 1877 and it would have been the 1820- 1840 period which may have provided me with information.
I note from your interests that you include Doyle, Wicklow
Would you know of any other web sites that I could try ?
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I dont believe that early Baltinglass CofI records have survived. Several sources I've checked state that these are 'lost'.
The records from 1877 on could derive from a newer register, or civil records.
My Doyles come from the other side of the Wicklow mountains and near to Bray.
Shane
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Shanew 147
Hi Shane, thank you for that piece of information, I wont be holding my breath waiting for more records to come to light. It would appear that my search for the family of Eliza Doyle is doomed, the only place left that may shed some light on it is the gravestone inscriptions for Baltinglass, that are held in Dublin.
Incidently I visited Wicklow town about three years ago and quickly found that co Wicklow was the home of Doyles.
The landlady at the B&B said her name was Doyle and that 6 families lived in her street !!
I would like to thank all Rootshat members who have helped me with this search, you have a wonderful organisation, keep up the good work.
Wyanga
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My Dad was Brendan Doyle (son of Michael Joseph/mum Bridget) They had 14 children - 12 surviving. 2 graveyards in Baltinglass - if you're related it won't be the Abbey one and I would find it hard to believe you are not related. Michael took himself off to US (terrible times in Ireland and all that), managed to save a bunch a people in the San Francisco earthquake (he was a fireman) was decorated and received a pension. He then found himself on another ship, lost an arm (and I guess received a pension from that). At some point he found himself in Australia managing some kind of sheep farm (rings any bells?) I can't believe he would be running a sheep farm with only one arm so maybe he did Australia first? Anyway, he went 'home' to Ireland, married Bridget, bought a farm with the pension and everyone knew the Doyle farm in Baltinglass. He did well with only one arm on that farm! Uncle Jimmy had a mysterious past working for British Intelligence and Irish Intelligence at the same time and Uncle Ted moved to England and had one son. The other two sons became Christian brothers (Brother Aidan died) and Brother Bernadine married a nun and has a bunch of kids somewhere. Aunt Lucy was left run the farm but accidentally set fire to it when she was baking. Hence the place is a ruin still. 4 aunts nuns and the only one alive was Sister Dymphna who retired to St Winnifred's convent in Shrewsbury. She is the one who would know about her grandfather and her dad's relations. Joseph was my great-grandfather. I could try asking? I doubt the name you want is Eliza (it's not a Doyle sounding name - would be Elizabeth - though we so many children, one would have received the name. My dad recounts looking after a younger sibling in the farm who died at age 2 - I think they called him Michael John.
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Hi DiedreDoyle
Lovely to hear from a Doyle connected to Baltinglass. I had all but given up on trying to find my Eliza Doyles roots but maybe there is hope yet.
My information is very sketchy coming from her marriage certificate and death certificate.
On her marriage certif. 12 Sep 1865 in Sydney Australia to George Charles Toogood she gives her age as 22
born in Baltinglass with father John Doyle, farmer and mother Eliza Macasin. ( born abt 1843 ? )
She must have been illiterate as she signed with her mark X, so she would not have been aware if Macasin had been mispelt.
On her death certificate 26 June 1917 her age is given as 72 ( b orn abt 1845 ?) Just gives Fathers surname Doyle and birthplace Wicklow. Also says that she had been in the colony about 57 years so that would make her arrival about 1860.
She was always known as Eliza here and gave her mothers name as Eliza, also named a daughter Amelia Eliza so I am pretty sure that the name was part of her family tradition. (for wont of a better word )
If you can connect this infromation to your family it would be great, but Baltinglass is my only starting point
Wyanga
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I have gone back to the Griffiths valuation on the aboutireland site and checked on the parishes surronding Baltinglass.
Baltinglass : Eliza Doyle , house in Delan St
John Doyle , house in Delan St
Ballynure : Griffinstown Upper, John Doyle house and garden
There is also a John Cashen nearby
Rathbran : John Doyle house offices and land ( abt 3 acres )
John Doyle jun. house land offices and land ( 10 acres )
Donaghmore: Leitrim, Eliza Doyle house offices and land ( 30 acres )
Randalstown, John Doyle land ( 2acrs 3 R )
John Doyle house and offices ( may be same person)
DeirdreDoyle
The above quote from the Griffiths valuation records shows that there was a John Doyle and an Eliza Doyle in Baltinglass in about 1856/7.It has always been assumed that our Eliza emmigrated to Australia alone.
Wyanga
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Hi wyanga,
Rootsireland.ie appears to have one Eliza Doyle baptised in Baltinglass (RC) between 1845-1855. Her parents names are listed as John and Eliza. Not too sure of her mothers surname though?
I have purchased Baptism Certs from here and the surnames of the Mothers in many cases have been mis-spelt or transcribed wrongly ???.
Also listed is Richard Barry, baptised in Wicklow (COI), 1830-1840, mothers name is Bridget. This may be Elizas Stepmother and Stepbrother.
Hope this will be of some help.
Wicklow way :)
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Hi Wicklow Way,
That baptisim looked very promising and well worth a try, but it turned out that the Mother's name is Eliza Power.
The baptism was Eliza Doyle 15 Aug 1849, Baltinglass Parish, Roman Catholic, Father John Doyle, mother Eliza Power.
This John Doyle and Eliza Doyle could be the ones that I have found recorded in the Griffiths valuation.
My Eliza was married in Sydney in 1865 when she claimed to be 22. This one would have only been 16 and there is the difference in the mother's name.
Thank you very much for your help, I have printed it out and can come back to this one if needs be, but I think I will keep looking to try and get a better fit. As you said this was the only Eliza Doyle (RC) baptism for that period and the COI doesnt come up with any, since their records dont start until some time about 1877 .
Wyanga
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Diedra Doyle is correct. The name "Eliza" is shorten for "Elizabeth" ~ Once things got bad with the property taxes and famine many families were forced to not only separate but to go to other countries. Most of the children if they were young were sent with the other family members (aunts and uncles) so they wouldn't be taken away due to proverty or being a widow. The children that were taken away were sent to Catholic Orphanages...that in itself is a joke but the Swiss did keep very organized records. I have a vast amount of information for both the "Doyle's" and the "Merrigan's" so I can be contacted and would be willing to swap notes. Please contact through here or * ~ ;)
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