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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: kala on Saturday 24 July 10 04:40 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Probably not going to be an easy one but hopefully a process of elimination might find him with the help from people here :)
I am looking for the death of John Robertson sometime after Mar 1854 in Vic a as that’s when he arrived from Scotland age listed as 34yrs occupation farmer. He arrived with his wife Elizabeth & four children Ann, Agnes, Jessie & James.
His marriage record from Scotland lists him as being of St Pauls Parish, Perthshire. I have everything on his wife’s & children’s BDM’s but I haven’t found John’s death :(
Possibly he could have died before 1859 as that’s when his eldest daughter was married & he doesn’t appear as a witness on her marriage certificate only his name & occupation is recorded as her father. Her mother & uncle are the witnesses.
Another clue maybe is that when his wife died in 1860 it was her brothers are listed as informants & witnesses for her death again John is recorded as her husband with all the usual information of how long married, where & children’s names etc. She died at her daughter’s home in Lancefield.
His wife’s younger brothers & their families arrived in 1841 & were successful land selectors & farmers in the Bulla/Somerton/Will Will Rook/Craigieburn/Wollert & surrounding areas.
Can anyone possibly help me out with finding John’s death please?
Thankyou,
Kala
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Age is about right - born c1821 - your man born c1820.
Death
ROBERTSON John
Parents unknown 40 years Born Scotland
1861 Reg#7620
Have you checked the cemetery records to see if John is buried with his wife who died at Lancefield?
Cheers
Cando
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Have you checked the cemetery records to see if John is buried with his wife who died at Lancefield?
Yes, I have contacted Lancefield cemetery & the FHS there several times they both tell me that they don't have a burial listed for him nor can they find Elizabeth's burial in 1860 even though on her death certificate it clearly states she was buried at Lancefield including by whom & the clergy attending the burial, this I find very strange also.
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Kala does the item on the death certificate actually say Lancefield Cemetery or simply Lancefield. There were many burials in church yards and on private land and I have noticed on some early certificates that word cemetery is not stated and could possibly mean just buried in the area of *******. Was a minister's name noted or just the witnesses?
Quite often the names of informants really give no indication to living spouses etc. It is not unusual to have other members or even members of extended family being noted as the informant of a death.
What was Elizabeth's occupation at the time of her death? I only ask as if John had pre-deceased her she may have had to go into service to support herself and her children.
A little more about the 1861 death I posted previously.
Inquest Index
ROBERTSON John
Place Mickelham 1861
Ref# 374
Cause Chest Disease and excessive drinking
Occupation Farm Labourer
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Kala,
I don't know if this will help but St. Pauls Parish, Perthshire is actually the parish of St. Pauls Church in the city of Perth, Perthshire.
It was built in 1807 so the date would fit in with the birth of John Robertson.
buckhind
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Thankyou Buckhind, but as I don't know his parents names it would probably be a feat trying to find his birth in any parish registers if they exsist :)
He married Elizabeth at St Madoes, Perthshire. Her family have a long history in that parish & many of the family are buried in the church graveyard some with headstones still standing.
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Hi Kala,
What about the kids names?
Using the Scottish naming pattern of the time, the eldest son & 2nd eldest daughter could be his parents names.
I had a quick look in the IGI and there are lots of him born about 1820.
If you stick to the ones born in Perth, perhaps you might get lucky.
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Hi Buckhind,
Ann the eldest & Jessie (female) the third child could be possibles...
Agnes the second child & James the last & only son are named after Elizabeth's parents.
They also had another child who was their first born named Elizabeth but she died as an infant & she is buried at St Madoes.
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But James could also be the name of his father.
Look for a James and Elizabeth.
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Hello....aren't we looking for the death of John ROBERTSON in Victoria ;D
Kala would appreciate a response to the questions in my last post....unless you wish to leave it.
Cheers
Cando
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Sorry Cando,
Yes, I'm retyping my answer now as we just had a power blackout & I lost what I had written >:(
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Hi Cando,
Her death certificate says buried at Lancefield & the clergy's name is listed as Archibald Forsyth. Her brother James was witness to the burial & brother David the informant for her death.
No occupation at her death the eldest daughter was married & the other two girls were working as teachers & the son on the family property.
The family were well educated, religious & quite well off for those times they employed people to work on the large farm properties they owned.
It looks like I will have to start throwing some $'s at the Vic BDM's for a few certificates to find John by elimination ::)
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Okay but are you referring to the PATULLO family as successful farmers or the ROBERTSON family....it would appear you know very little about John's family.
I would ask you to actually look at Elizabeth's death certificate again ie if you have it, and carefully note all the info, and if you have time type it up. Does it actually say Elizabeth died at her daughter's home etc. So often I have asked to have a look at a person's death cert and found info, notified the person requesting help with what I have have noted on the cert, to receive the reply.....oh I didn't see that or gosh I missed that. It is the small details that really matter...well at times ;D I note you said she was buried at Lancefield....but was it Lancefield Cemetery?
Trying to help you ;D
Cando
Edit to correct sp.
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Perhaps this information may help - the Cemetery Trust would only have burial records from the date the Trust was formed.
Transcribed from Victorian Government Gazette #78, Date Friday July 31st 1863
LANCEFIELD - Site in the parish of Lancefield, for a Cemetery, temporarily reserved by Order of 27th July, 1863. Six acres, county of Bourke, parish of Lancefield: Commencing at the north-east angle at a post bearing east eighteen chains, more or less, from the north-west angle of the Melbourne Hill reserve; bounded on the north by a road bearing west, six chains; on the west by a line bearing south ten chains; on the south by a line bearing east six chains; and on the east by a line bearing north ten chains to the point of commencement (63.G.4870) Gazetted (1°) on 31 July, 1863.
Trustees appointed 24 August 1863 and Gazetted Friday September 4th, 1863
John HALEY, William DOWDEN, Thomas FIELD, J.P.CONWAY, Thomas WOOD, R.S.GRAHAM and William HARRIMAN Senior.
Where were Elizabeth's brothers and their families buried?
Cheers
Cando
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Her death certificate says buried at Lancefield & the clergy's name is listed as Archibald Forsyth. Her brother James was witness to the burial & brother David the informant for her death.
The surname FORSYTH and PATULLO are patrons of the Bulla Bulla School in this snippet. I note that there is a student Archibald FORSYTH, son of the patron? The minister of religion present is noted as such. Perhaps Archibald FORSYTH was another settler in the area and was simply noted as a witness to Elizabeth's burial.
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/4825881?searchTerm=patullo
And a meeting called by the Presbyterians at Deep Creek re establishing a Presbyterian Minister - names include Archibald FORSYTH and David PATULLO.
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/7146519?searchTerm=patullo
A Victorian death cert in 1860 has a column heading
Name and Religion of Minister or Names of Witnesses of Burial.
Is the religion of the minister noted on Elizabeth's death certificate?
What I am trying to work out is the relationship that the ROBERTSON family had with the PATULLO's. Yes Elizabeth was their sister but were she and John working for them or was he a landholder in his own right. What importance was placed on her burial? Is that John ROBERTSON's death in 1861 at Mickelham - not all that distant from Lancefield? If he died alone there may not be a lot of info on the death certificate. Hard to know.... and the cost of certificates certainly adds up :(
I can't find John ROBERTSON on the 1856 Victorian electoral roll. He may not have been eligible to enrol ie if he didn't own land or pay a certain amount in annual rental for either a dwelling or land.
Just noted that David PATULLO according to the snippet, buried his son Thomas, at Campbellfield Cemetery in 1862. However another source has him buried at Will Will Rook cemetery [Broadmeadows] along with his father and many other PATULLO's however it is the same cemetery.
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/6481231?searchTerm=patullo
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Kala,
I live in Lancefield - half a km from the cemetary and around the corner from the historical society.
Can I be of any help?
Cheers, Ted
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::)
Hi Kala
I have all Vic bdm ,can I help
Norma