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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: frederickay on Friday 23 July 10 05:50 BST (UK)
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hi , i have just received this info about my reletive being in the 89Th foot regiment .. major Samuel Clifton . he went on to marry Frances Jones in hong Kong and become the first superintendent of shanghai police .
what i would like to know is his life previous to this ..
his first wife Elizabeth died in hong Kong about 1850 . he was forced out of the police in 1860 with disproved charges and became a merchant .
he died in England in Nov 1872 . his wife Frances was still in china .
where was he born , who are his parents ..
thanks
fredericka y
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Hi
The only death registration for a Samuel Clifton died in November 1872 is this man's death registered in the December quarter
Deaths Dec 1872 Clifton Samuel 66 Birmingham 6d 93
The census information doesn't fit with the information you have given.
1871 census RG10 3116 folio 69
1 Court 8 House Whittall Street Birmingham
Samuel Clifton 65 Head Married Gun Finisher London Middlesex
Sarah Clifton 62 Wife Married Exeter Devonshire
Regards
Valda
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Hi
also not fitting the information but maybe of interest (maybe Mary is wrongly given by the census enumerator and it should be Frances?)
1861 census RG9 781 folio 117
3 Shirley Villas Hanwell Middlesex
Mary Clifton 42 Head Married Chelsea Middlesex
Frederick Clifton 10 Son Hong Kong China
Alfred Clifton 8 Son Hong Kong China
Isabel Clifton 6 Daughter Hong Kong China
Madeline Clifton 5 Daughter Shanghai China
Bertha Clifton 2 Daughter Shanghai China
Samuel Clifton 13 Son Hong Kong China
plus 2 servants
There is a snippet on Google books full entry not given which states
...Isabel Clifton, daughter of Captain Samuel Clifton, First Supt. of Police, Shanghai...
Regards
Valda
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hi it is interesting the Samuel Clifton in Birmingham census is right age ... in correspondence to age at the Samuel death in 1872 . i have official papers from china that state he died in England (only )
i wonder if he left his wife , but equally i have signed papers by her in regards to his estate ..
Clifton is a very common name in birhginham .
but it appears to be only Samuel Clifton in right 1/4.
yes the other Clifton's are Samuel Sr . children .. the Mary Clifton may be his sister .. he might have been in England for his court case . i am not sure about that , those are definitely his children . his wife was Elizabeth , then fanny , so i don't know who Mary is ..
thanks for your interest .
Jan
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just checked my maths ,, fanny jones who married sam clifton in 1851/2 was born 1817 so could be mary who is down as 45 in 1861 ..but why .. the frances/ fanny was born in chelsea as was the Mary . i had thought they might be friends and that is how fanny met Samuel ? more puzzles ..
jan
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Hi
A possible mistake made by the census enumerator copying the household schedule into the enumerator's book
Fanny for Mary
The same Samuel Clifton in Birmingham in 1871 in 1851
1851 census HO107 2057 folio 270
2 Court 6 House Whitall Street Birmingham
Samuel Clifton 45 Head Married Gun Finisher Aldgate Middlesex
Sarah Clifton 42 Wife Married Exeter Devon
Sarah Clifton 16 Granddaughter? Birmingham Warwickshire
John Clifton 14 Grandson? Birminghams Warwickshire
The couple don't appear on the 1891 census.
Perhaps
Deaths Dec 1871 Clifton Samuel 55 Barnet 3a 98
Regards
Valda
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hi i agree with you . it couls be a mistran scription because age and birthplace are right ...unless she is a sis in law i suppose . i rechecked my paperwork and Samuel Clifton in noted as dying in Nov 1872 ... not sure where other than England . he was worth less than 20 pounds .... interesting because he Had leases in japan , hong Kong and shanghai... i will keep looking . what info mation is on a death cert from 1872 ... thanks Fred .
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Hi
Death certificate
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_176222.pdf
Regards
Valda
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Marriage in Shanghai 25 March 1872, Church of Holy Trinity:
Mary Anne Isabel Clifton 18 spinster, daughter of Samuel Clifton, and
Charles Edward Kofod widow (sic) of full age, pilot, son of T F Kofod.
No occupations shown for the fathers
Witnesses include Bertha Augusta Clifton and Frances Augusta Clifton (can't read the other one)
And on 8 June 1877 at Shanghai cathedral:
Bertha Augusta Clifton 18 spinster, daughter of Samuel Clifton, Official
and
Henry Joseph Limby of full age, clerk, son of Henry Limby, merchant
Witness names Hay, Such and Alfred S J Clifton
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Thank you for that , Yes this is the children of samual Clifton and his wife Frances Augusta de irujo .. thank you for sending it to me . i hadn't seen such detail and would love any other info or if you can point me in right direction . I thought one of the daughters Isabel Clifton married doctor James Stockwell....so i think Charles kofod must have died .. I will research further .
Fred.
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According to this book, his second wife was Miss Fanny Jones
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0d75/
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I remember now... her mother was Lavinia De Irujo
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From FIBIS
Bombay Times and Journal of Commerce 19 May 1852
At St John's Cathedral Victoria Hongkong on the 12th April Mr Samuel Clifton Inspector of Police to Frances Augusta Jones
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Hi yes thanks .. the illegitimacy gave her different names then she was baptised as adult in 1839 as Jones . now ...
in 1861 census in hanwell i have the correct Clifton family with Mary 42 as head ... thought it might be transcribed fanny wrongly .. but the ages don't quite match up as Frances was def. born 26th DEC 1817 ... so now i am back to thinking Mary is sister in law . interesting as Isabel is named Mary as well.... always intrigued . thanks for looking . would love to know where Samuel came from ...
Jan
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Have you found any trace of his army career? I have looked in a few army lists (1842, 1850, 1854) but I don't see his name. Nothing in the Gazette either. Possibly he was HEIC ?
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Hi the link you sent said he was formerly from the 67th reg. i had read somewhere he was a major in the 89th ... i have his will here and he died worth less than 20 pounds .. back in England in the DEC 1/41872 . doesn't say where .. he had had several leases in china <Japan and Hong Kong so don't know where it all went . I thought i had the family in at 5 bubbling well road in 1890s but now someone has contacted me and said their unrelated Clifton's had that address . i must do more research . Jan /Fred
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An officer in the British army should have several entries in the London Gazette, on first commissioning, then on promotion, but I could not see any when using the name Samuel Clifton. Could he have had other names?
A
[sorry, partly repeating Fred's reply]
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It's possible he was HEIC but I didn't see him in the India army list for 1845.
The Bengal army had a 67th regiment (but not an 89th)
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Excuse me butting in here, but I'm looking for information about my grandfather, whom I never met, who was married to Amy Clifton of Shanghai. I think, but am by no means certain, that his Christian name was Frederick, and he had 2 daughters, Veronica (born 1920) and Mary .
I realise it may be a long shot but do any of the names ring a bell?
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hi if you could email me i think it is worth looking into. i have just recently found another family of Clifton's in Shanghai and you may be related to them . if you can access ancestry there are a family which include Harold travelling around the world .. check out the names on there .. just put Clifton and China . now some names to look at in the family are stockwell, limby , derrick .
i thought our family were at 5 Bubbling well Road but since then the second Clifton family have turned up in same road My extended Clifton family spent a lot of time to ing and fro ing to England .. my email is
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so let me know if i can help. Jan
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PS.. in back of my head i think a Miss Mary Clifton went from Shanghai to Australia in 2nd WW wartime . it was in Australia newspaper records . she went to high society and it tells you what she wore were she lived . her uncle was a sir B????
keep in touch .. sorry i cant be more precise but the Australian paper is on line in full.. Jan
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In my Murphy family tree I have the following: Mary Valentine Clifton (b) 14 Feb 1924 Shanghai China (m) Gordon Arthur Andrews in 1942 Wollahra, New South Wales, Australia. Gordon Arthur was the son of Daisy Ethel Barratt. My Murphy family tree is on Ancestry and I am a Barratt descendant.
Regards