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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: eleanore on Thursday 22 July 10 15:24 BST (UK)
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I have an interest in the family of Thaddeus Krempowiecki b 1801 - married Mary Ann Cheese widow in London 1842. He is listed as 'Commissioner of Police in Poland'. Unfortunately he died in 1847, his father was Martin a 'Gentleman'. What was happening in Poland 1840's and any clues as to why a Commissioner of Police would be a refugee? He had a son - Alfred Thadeus Krempowiecki b 1843 who is the father of Charlotte, my fathers God Mother. She was one of the nicest people I know and I would like to discover her origins. Any information would be nice - a family contact would be even nicer! :)
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http://www.jstor.org/stable/4465107?cookieSet=1
http://www.jstor.org/stable/4205325?seq=8
- I don't know if you can access this, but they mention a "Tadeusz Krempowiecki" (Krępowiecki). "Before his arrival in England Krempowiecki had already acquired the reputation of a dangerous agitator and a propagator of subversive ideas." He was in Paris at least in 1832 when he spoke at a meeting there (a speech that seems to have been somewhat infamous among Polish historians). He had been connected with the left-wing "carbonari" which apparently earnt him expulsion from France. He was part of a breakaway group of the Polish Democratic Society in London (seems to have been there by 1834) known as the "London Commune".
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadeusz_Kr%C4%99powiecki
- he even has a (short) Polish wikipedia entry which mentions him as a participant in the November Uprising (according to to google translate, at least)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_Uprising
also see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Emigration
There are some mentions of a "Thadée Krempowiecki" on google books and this:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k54570438.r=Krepowiecki.f24.langEN.hl
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Wow that was fast- goodness me! We do seem to have a number of activist in the family but not like this one! Charlotte known as Lottie was the mildest of persons, my fathers godmother, but I always felt she had a story to tell! Will pick up your links, thank you.
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I was searching on the Web to find family related stuff, and came across your post.
I think the Charlotte you are mentioning is my father's father's sister.
My family name is spelled "Krempeaux", although it was spelled differently before.
My full name is: "Charles Iliya Krempeaux".
My father, whose name is "Charles Robert Krempeaux", was born in Canada.
My father's father, whose name is "Charles Stanislaus Krempeaux", came to Canada from France. I also think he might have lived in England too. Do note that my father's father's middle name ("Stanislaus") seems like Polish spelling of the name "Stanley".
My father's father (Charles Stanislaus Krempeaux) had 2 sisters. One of the sisters is named "Charlotte".
The surname "Krempeaux" has a French spelling. The -eaux at the end of the name makes it seem French. I was told by someone once that an "x" at the end of a French surname name suggests the family may have immigrated to France.
(I do not know if the information about French family names ending in an "x" is accurate or not; but if true seems relevant.)
My father's sister, whose name is "Audrey Jane Krempeaux", investigated the Krempeaux family history. I'm drawing from memories from when I was very very young (probably some time in the early to mid 1980s), but what I remember is that family came from France to Canada, but was originally in Poland. I also remember her (verbally) telling me that our surname "Krempeaux" was originally something like "Kremposki". I was verbally told this and did not see it written down, so I don't know how it was actually spelled.
I noticed that the photo you attached is named "lottie_Krempoiski_dads_godmother.jpg". "Krempoiski" seems like the name that my aunt -- Audrey Jane Krempeaux -- told me "Krempeaux" was originally.
My father (Charles Robert Krempeaux) also had a brother, named "Paul Douglas Krempeaux". When my brother, whose name is "Hassan Robert Krempeaux", was talking to Paul years ago (I think in 1996 or 1997) Paul mentioned to my brother (who goes by his middle name "Robert" or just "Rob") that "Krempeaux" is not the actual family name, and that the family left Poland.
I found this document on the Web today: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/41629/page/1017/data.pdf
It lists Charlotte's full name as: "KREMPOWIECKI, Charlotte Elizabeth". (In the surname first style.)
I found it because it also listed my father's father (Charles Stanislas Krempeaux) (i.e, Charlotte's brother) in the document. (Although this document does not explicitly describe Charles Stanislas Krempeaux and Charlotte's relation.)
Although I've heard of "Krempoiski" before, this is the first time (I think) I've seen the name "Krempowiecki" in terms of my family history.
Also note, I believe "Krempowiecki" might have an alternative spelling of "Krępowiecki".
(I started searching "Krempowiecki" and "Krępowiecki" and found your post.)
Note also, I found something else on the Internet that indicated my father's father's father's name is "Thadeus". (Although I think the document I found had "Thadeus" spelled as "Thadias".)
If you would like to get in touch, my e-mail address is: cikrempeaux (at) gmail (dot) com
-- Charles Iliya Krempeaux
(Posted on Friday January 15th, 2016)
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Hi, this might help!
My great great grandmother, Mary Ann Cheese (nee Westcott) married Thaddeus after the death of her first husband. They were living in Jane Street, London in 1841, as can be seen in that year's census. I have copies of their marriage certificate, his death certificate and the death certificate of Mary Ann Krempowiecka, wife of Charles Stanislas Krempowiecki (interpreter).
There is much about the November Uprising in Poland on the web, but it seems Thaddeus was prominent in the fighting, being wounded in the defence of Warsaw. Thousands were killed on both sides, but Warsaw was lost to the Russian dominance. He, along with many others, was exiled to Prussia, but trouble was still brewing, and the Prussians ordered them back to Poland, or to be put on a ship (the battleship 'Marianne') bound for America. 212 soldiers decided America was preferable to probable death back in Poland, but bad weather forced them into Portsmouth harbour, where many eventually settled.
The marriage of Thaddeus and my g.g.grandmother (17 March 1842), the birth of their son Alfred Thaddeus (11 Sept 1842) and his death in 1847 put them in Jane Street, Saint George in the East, Middlesex. Mary lived on until 1867.
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Poland ceased to be an independent state in 1795. There were three partitions of Poland between Russia, Austria and Prussia. Initially, I thought your case was due to the Revolutions of 1830 in Europe. However there were further upheavals around 1840 where Russia increased it's holdings over Austria and Prussia in Poland. I think this gave rise to your ancestor emigrating.
Do you know where he was 'commissioner of police'?. France was the first destination of emigres from Poland or Russia for that matter. Police chief was an odd position for a dissident liberal.
Your family sounds like a very interesting one to follow up. There's probably a lot of history going back in time. There are Polish institutions in UK that can help you. They are very good.
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Hi, this might help!
My great great grandmother, Mary Ann Cheese (nee Westcott) married Thaddeus after the death of her first husband.
Your username -- "Thaddeus30" -- suggests your name might be "Thaddeus" :) Does that mean you are a descendent of Mary Ann Westcott's 2nd marriage (to Tadeusz Krempowiecki)?
They were living in Jane Street, London in 1841, as can be seen in that year's census. I have copies of their marriage certificate, his death certificate and the death certificate of Mary Ann Krempowiecka, wife of Charles Stanislas Krempowiecki (interpreter).
My understanding of the family tree is that Mary Ann Westcott had a grandson named: "Charles Stanislaus Krempeaux". Although I've also seen his name spelled "Charles Krempo" and there are hints that it was spelt "Charles Krempowiecki" too.
This is my father's father.
Although, of course, it is certainly possible my understanding is inaccurate.
(And, thinking out loud, given that I am speaking from a position where there is a lot that I do not know, it seems possible to me that there could have been more than one person with the first and middle name ""Charles Stanislaus".)
There is much about the November Uprising in Poland on the web, but it seems Thaddeus was prominent in the fighting, being wounded in the defence of Warsaw. Thousands were killed on both sides, but Warsaw was lost to the Russian dominance. He, along with many others, was exiled to Prussia, but trouble was still brewing, and the Prussians ordered them back to Poland, or to be put on a ship (the battleship 'Marianne') bound for America. 212 soldiers decided America was preferable to probable death back in Poland, but bad weather forced them into Portsmouth harbour, where many eventually settled.
The marriage of Thaddeus and my g.g.grandmother (17 March 1842), the birth of their son Alfred Thaddeus (11 Sept 1842) and his death in 1847 put them in Jane Street, Saint George in the East, Middlesex. Mary lived on until 1867.
BTW, I've love to hear more about my great great grandmother, Mary Ann Westcott, too! :) if you know anything more about her.
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Do you know where he was 'commissioner of police'?. France was the first destination of emigres from Poland or Russia for that matter. Police chief was an odd position for a dissident liberal.
One document I saw says, in response to the question "Rank of Profession.", what looks like "Commissioner of Police in Poland".
(Note that I'm saying "what looks like" because parts of the document is written in cursive. And despite learning cursive in school, it has been so long since I have read or written cursive, that I'm finding I'm reading cursive isn't as easy as I would hope :) )
This document seems to record the marriage between "Thaddeus Krempowiecki" and "Mary Ann Cheese".
Your family sounds like a very interesting one to follow up. There's probably a lot of history going back in time. There are Polish institutions in UK that can help you. They are very good.
I received some results from Google when I searched "polish uk heritage", but... are there any specific Polish institutions in the UK that you would recommend?
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If it's of any help, ska at the end of a Polish name indicates a male, and ski a female.
ie: I have a niece who married a Polish lad by the surname of Jaworska - but her married name was Jaworski. As was his mother, and his unmarried sister.
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Quote: I received some results from Google when I searched "polish uk heritage", but... are there any specific Polish institutions in the UK that you would recommend?
Try POSK - http://www.posk.org/c5/en/home/
and
http://www.posk.org/c5/en/about-us/organisations/
Also many UK towns have a Polish Club and maybe a Polish Church often founded around WW2.
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Mary Ann Westcott was my g. g. grandmother by her first marriage (to William Cheese), so I have no direct link to Thaddeus, but I have some info on Mary.
She was born in Chagford, Devon, (31 March 1809), married to William Cheese (29 Mar 1829) and gave him five children. In the 1841 census she had put my g. grandfather (Richard Henry Cheese) into the Hackney Infant Orphan Asylum, but kept the others at home! She is described as 'Mangler' in that census and is a widow. I can't find much about the death of her first husband, William, apart from being in 1839, and she is living on Jane Street, a few doors away from Thaddeus. She is a widow again in the 1851 census, after the death of Thaddeus, and her son Richard Henry is living at home again and described as 'Biscuit Baker'. In 1861 he is a baker, and by 1881 a Master Baker. Were these skills he was given in the orphanage?
Mary is described as 'Monthly Nurse' in1861. She seems to use either of her married surnames.
Charles Krempoweicki was a witness on the marriage certificate of my g.grandparents, Richard Henry Cheese and Isabella Laing (21 July 1861) in Bermondsey, London.
I hope this helps a bit.