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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Valgenie on Thursday 22 July 10 15:09 BST (UK)

Title: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: Valgenie on Thursday 22 July 10 15:09 BST (UK)
My grandfather Charles Howard Johnson b. 1886,  emigrated to Aus. in 1944, I did not know where he went until today. He had a child there,***, born 1944 in Sydney. *** will not know that there were 3 half-siblings here in the UK, one of whom is still alive. How could I find ***?
 
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Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: Dundee on Friday 23 July 10 04:43 BST (UK)
Hi Valgenie,

Just a few questions -

Do you know which state in Australia Charles was living in?  His occupation?  Place of birth and parents' names?  His wife's name? Was he a widower or divorced when he came to Australia (i.e. free to marry again)?  How sure are you of his arrival year?

Debra
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: sparrett on Friday 23 July 10 08:24 BST (UK)
This marriage in 1943 makes me wonder if CHARLES arrived earlier than you think

Reg.387 In 1943 JOHNSON CHARLES HOWARD to CAPE DORIS in SYDNEY

does this DEATH ENTRY show the correct parents?

reg. 918 In1957 JOHNSON CHARLES HOWARD father CHARLES HOWARD  mother HARRIET  in SYDNEY

Sue   
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: judb on Friday 23 July 10 08:30 BST (UK)
There is only one "Charles Howard Johson" shown on electoral rolls up to 1954 (which is where my access ends).  Plenty of other "Charles Johnson"s

1949 and 1954
Charles Howard JOHNSON, seaman, 146 Crown St, division of West Sydney
Doris JOHNSON, home duties at same address

Judith

 
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: sparrett on Friday 23 July 10 08:47 BST (UK)
Here is the burial information for the man who died inNSW in 1957.
He is in the Cemetery section of Eastern Suburbs Memorial Park

Johnson, Charles Howard.
 Date   12-03-1957. Age 70
Location   A5B - Anglican FM 5B - Grave 1275


Age not quite Correct
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: judb on Friday 23 July 10 08:59 BST (UK)
1891 UK census shows the following family which looks as though it is the chap found by Sparrett - whether it's the on Valgenie is looking for is not quite clear yet!

At 116 Winston Rd, Stoke Newington - all born Poplar except Julia b Bromley, and Ernest b Highbury
Charles H Johnson 54, shipwright
Harriett Johnson 37
Julia A Johnson 12
Charles H Johnson 5
Ernest E Johnson 1

Cheers, Judith
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: sparrett on Friday 23 July 10 09:01 BST (UK)
A  notice  regarding   the death of the above man appeared in the SMH


JOHNSON Charles Howard 11MAR1957 Death  late of East Sydney Sydney Morning Herald 12MAR1957 .

There is a facilility to request a search for the notice on the website..
It will eliminate (or otherwise) this individual.

http://www.ryersonindex.org/
Sue
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: Valgenie on Friday 23 July 10 09:11 BST (UK)
Thank you so much, this is him. I have the death cert, also I have his birth cert, but he always told a few fibs about his age!!! 
Here is the burial information for the man who died inNSW in 1957.
He is in the Cemetery section of Eastern Suburbs Memorial Park

Johnson, Charles Howard.
 Date   12-03-1957. Age 70
Location   A5B - Anglican FM 5B - Grave 1275


Age not quite Correct

:)
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: sparrett on Friday 23 July 10 09:14 BST (UK)
The death notice may point you in the right direction to find the son :) :)

Sue
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: Valgenie on Friday 23 July 10 09:36 BST (UK)
Thank you. I went on the Ryerson Index and found the Notice. If you apply to the SHJ do they give you the complete obit?
FYI  my mother is 90, and yesterday I was able to tell her she has a half-brother !!!   :) :) :)
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: aniph on Friday 23 July 10 09:38 BST (UK)
You could also try our white pages for an address and phone number

www.whitepages.com.au

Annie
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: Dundee on Friday 23 July 10 10:43 BST (UK)
Hi Valgenie,

Was Charles in Australia during WWI?  Wife, Beatrice Victoria?  There is a service record for man of this name who enlisted in Sydney and went AWOL as soon as he arrived in the UK.  He was born in London in 1885. 

http://naa12.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/SearchScreens/BasicSearch.aspx 

Put the full name in the search box, and when the results come up you will see on the right of the screen that you can click on "digitised item".

Debra
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: sparrett on Friday 23 July 10 12:11 BST (UK)
Hi,
The couple you refer to Dundee, were married in June 1/4 1916
 
Bakes  Beatrice V to Johnson, Charles H .  at  Edmonton  3a 1298     

Sue   
   
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: cando on Friday 23 July 10 14:39 BST (UK)
There is also this birth in NSW...same parents' names.

Birth in NSW
3113/1884     
JOHNSON Charles H
Father Charles H  Mother  Harriet E     
District Sydney

Death
918/1957     
JOHNSON  Charles Howard     
Father Charles Howard  Mother Harriet
District Sydney

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: cando on Friday 23 July 10 14:56 BST (UK)
I'm a bit puzzled
Quote
My grandfather Charles Howard Johnson b. 1886,  emigrated to Aus. in 1944, I did not know where he went until today.
Valgenie
and you have his death certificate.

There appear to be two Charles Howard JOHNSON's on the NSW indexes with parents having identical given names.  However his death certificate should have identifying information eg place of birth.  Did he marry?

Cando
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: Valgenie on Friday 23 July 10 16:06 BST (UK)
Hello Cando,Sparrett, Dundee and all you other kind & helpful people:

I have the birth cert. Born Poplar, London in 1886
He is on the 1891 census as mentioned, with family
In 1901 he is on a training ship at Devonport, in Devon UK
Yes, he was in the Australian Imp Force in 1917. Yes he did go AWOL, then he joined the British Navy (have source documents and medals)
Yes, his wife was Beatrice Victoria. 
Yes, he made many voyages around the world as a seaman (have seaman's cards etc.)
I had traced him as far as NZ in 1936
Just found him on the electoral roll (on July 8th 2010)
Got the death cert. It arrived yesterday. It must be him!! 
After 28 years of searching, thank goodness for the Internet and all of you!!!
Burning Question........where is his son?


Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 24 July 10 01:17 BST (UK)
Hi Val,
Your last posting shows you had a lot of information about the man.

Just giving you a useful tip for next time.

Always give all the information you have right at the outset.

That way helpers are not wasting time researching what you already know.

As to the Burning Question, if you go back through the thread , I have suggested you acquire a copy of his death notice REPLY #6

Sue
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 24 July 10 01:35 BST (UK)
This marriage in NSW is the couple who had the child

REG. 1598 In 1883    JOHNSON    CHARLES N  to .MARTIN HARRIET E  in SYDNEY



Birth in NSW
3113/1884     
JOHNSON Charles H
Father Charles H  Mother  Harriet E     
District Sydney
CANDO

There is a mistranscription in the second initial of the husband.

Sue




Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 24 July 10 08:17 BST (UK)
Got the death cert. It arrived yesterday. It must be him!!   VAL

Val,
Only you can see the death certificate you refer to.
I suppose it is the certificate for the man who died in 1957. ???

The story holds together ok to the point of  the supposed immigration and marriage to DORIS.

You have not really furnished any evidence that your grandfather immigrated to Australia in the 1940's.

As we have established, there are two men named CHARLES HOWARD JOHNSON.

One was born in Australia and the other --- the  soldier was born in LONDON.

It would be helpful if you told us what is written on the death certificate.

So far there is nothing I can see in this thread to persuade me that the man who married DORIS was your grandfather.


Sue


Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: Dundee on Saturday 24 July 10 11:22 BST (UK)
Hi Val,

It was Charles Herbert JOHNSON who was born in Sydney in 1884, son of Charles H or N JOHNSON and Harriet Ellen MARTIN.  He committed suicide in 1919 and from death notices appears to have been unmarried.  Sisters May, Ellen and Gladys - married surnames REID, BOURK, (O')FLAHERTY.  Harriet died in 1924, and Charles in 1938.

The Howard middle name is only recorded in the 1943 marriage and the 1957 death, which appear to be YOUR Charles.

As for Charles Howard JOHNSON'S son, it will be quite difficult I would imagine with such a common name.  I wonder if he was also given the middle name of Howard?  I had a look for *** on the nominal roll for Vietnam as he would have been of an age to serve, but none born NSW at the correct time.  There are lots of internet sites for finding missing people, so maybe post on a few of those.  (Everyone googles themselves at some stage!) If the death cert indicates that his wife was still alive then maybe you can have the few notices from the Sydney Morning Herald checked as well (the link was given earlier), keeping in mind that she may have remarried.  Letters to local newspapers can also be very successful.  The marriage cert will give details of the bride, and maybe it would be easier to chase up living members of her family, as the name is a little more unusual.

Good luck with your search  :)

Debra

Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: Valgenie on Saturday 24 July 10 18:05 BST (UK)
Hello Sparrett and Dundee,

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. I am sorry if I caused anyone to look for something I already knew.   My real Q was, how do I find *****?  living son of CHJ?
Re: The Death Cert. the informant has named CHJ's mother, which is correct.  And also his father and his profession, also correct. 
I am indebted to all of you for your help. The death notice in the paper told us nothing, I guess there was no obit. 
Think I might have to hire a Professional Researcher to find my uncle.
Thank you, everyone 
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: judb on Sunday 25 July 10 05:31 BST (UK)
Death notices such as those on the Ryerson index are paid advertisements usually inserted by family so the death notice mentioned by Ryerson would probably give the name/s of any offspring.  What you see on the on-line Ryerson index is just the indexed names - there would be more in the actual paper.  Sounds as though you may only have looked at the index.

I can do a look-up for you but proabably won't be at the National Library till late next week, if I get there at all - maybe not till the week after.

You can request Ryerson to do a lookup for you - sometimes they are really quick, sometimes slower as it is done by volunteers. 

Cheers, Judith
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: Valgenie on Sunday 25 July 10 11:55 BST (UK)
Thank you, Judith

             That would be very helpful.   :)
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: sparrett on Monday 26 July 10 01:18 BST (UK)
Hi Val, :

Judith's kind offer may bring some details to light :)

 My real Q was, how do I find *****?  living son of CHJ?
Re: The Death Cert. the informant has named CHJ's mother, which is correct.  And also his father and his profession, also correct.


A couple of comments here, Val.
We all understand that your query was to search out the son.

In order to make sure your informaton is accurate, it has been neccesary to carefully go over with you the information you have. It occurs commonly in our work that assumptions are made and inaccuracies proliferate from them.  It may seem like backtracking to you, but thorough researchers will always question and validate.:)

On the death certificate you have,
Who was the informant?
What is the conjugal staus?
How many children living /dead are listed?
What is the full name of the parents of deceased?

Sue
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: judb on Monday 26 July 10 04:56 BST (UK)
Unfortunately there is little more information in the Death Notice

Sydney Morning Herald, 12 March 1957 - Death notices:
JOHNSON, Charles Howard-
March 11, 1957 of 146 Crown St, East Sydney, beloved husband of Doris, and dear father of Peter.  At Rest.

There is no funeral notice; no further notices on the next two days.

146 Crown St can be seen on Googlemap - susburb is now called Darlinghurst.  It appears to be a block of flats but looks as though it could have been there in 1957. (Click on the red marker to get a street view)

Judith


Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: sparrett on Monday 26 July 10 09:05 BST (UK)
Hi,
Found this on a pay to view shipping website.  I cannot see more than I have put here, but others may think it is worth following up.

CAPE Adelaide Janet. born 1908.Female.
departed 1923London to Australia [Sydney]
                                 
CAPE,Doris born 1910.Female
 departed 1923.London to Australia[Sydney]
               
CAPE, Jack William born 1922 Male
departed 1923.London to Australia[Sydney]

   
CAPE, Janet Adelaide    born 1881   Female
departed 1923.London to Australia[Sydney]

It is possible to see the marriages of ADELAIDE JANET and JACK WILLIAM on NSW BMD

Reg. 2789 In 1943 MCCAULEY, NOEL JAMES to CAPE, ADELIADE JANET at GLEBE

Reg. 752 In 1944 CAPE, JACK WILLIAM toTREMBATH JOSEPHINE SAUNDERS at SYDNEY

Also the death of the other

Reg. 22419 In 1965 CAPE, JANET ADELAIDE father WILLIAM JOSEPH mother UNKNOWN  at LIVERPOOL

Some deaths notices from Ryerson

McCAULEY   Janet Adelaide. 27AUG1980 Death aged 72 late of Cabramatta. PAPER-   Sydney Morning Herald

CAPE Jack William.29JAN1999 aged 76 late of RiverwoodPAPER Daily Telegraph (Sydney)

It is hard to know if these people are DORIS and her family, but it may be worth investigating as  a way to establish DORIS's parents and extentd family to find the son P***

Sue     
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: Valgenie on Monday 26 July 10 10:54 BST (UK)
Hello Sue and Judith,


Re: Death Cert. Informant: Doris Johnson
                         Conjugal Status: Married
                         Living Issue: P****   aged 13
                         Parents: Charles Howard Johnson (Publican) and Harriet Palmer

                         Last two exactly match our CHJ

FYI:                   Over the years I have traced all CHJ's brothers and sisters. (7 in total) 
                         They were all deceased by the time I "found" them. The offspring knew nothing.
                         CHJ's first wife (my mother's mother) died young and did not tell my mother
                         anything about her father other than he was at sea.
                         
                         When he settled in Australia, he had two living children in the UK, 1 dead.

                         My mother's life ambition has been to find her father.

                         The info. re. The Cape Family is incredible. If this is the right Doris, then she
                         would have been about 34 when she had P****.

                         From here in the UK, I thank you both sincerely

                         V.

                         
   

Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 27 July 10 09:19 BST (UK)
This person has knowledge of JACK WILLIAM CAPE as evidenced by the family tree online.  There seems to be children of JACK's marriage.

Getting in touch may confirm or eliminate the immigrant DORIS CAPE

http://www.hattam.co.uk/familytree/family.php?famid=F3246

As I have mentioned, RYERSON has a lookup option.

Sue
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: Valgenie on Tuesday 27 July 10 12:31 BST (UK)
Thank you, Sue

Have sent an e-mail to the Hatam Family Site.

V.

Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: judb on Tuesday 27 July 10 14:37 BST (UK)
Well, well, well - guess where Jack William (clerk) and Josephine Saunders (HD) CAPE are on the electoral roll -

1949
148 Crown St, West Sydney - right next door to CHJ and Doris (Electoral rolls 1949, 1954 death notice 1957)

Jack and Josephine have moved by 1954 (extent of my access) to 8 Baumans Rd, Herne Bay

And guess who else at 146 Crown St in 1949 and 1954 - Adelaide Janet McCAULEY, waitress (definitely shown as Adelaide Janet)

Noel James McCauley,
1930 to 1937 railway worker, Blackheath
1949, labourer, 109 Glebe St, Glebe - no-one else with that surname at same address; can't see him at all in 1954.

Judith
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: judb on Tuesday 27 July 10 15:16 BST (UK)
Noel James McCauley is shown enlisted in WW2, giving his NoK as Mary McCauley (I think she is his mother as a Mary McCauley was listed at Blackheath on the electoral rolls)
Noel James MCCAULEY, Service Number NX49719 : born 24 Dec 1908 at LEICHARDT NSW
Enlisted at Paddington NSW, Next of Kin - Mary MCCAULEY

There are two entries for him on the WW2 Nominal Roll.
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/script/name.asp

Judith
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: Valgenie on Tuesday 27 July 10 17:15 BST (UK)
Curiouser and Curiouser, said Alice

Knowing that families often stick together and live near one another, makes me think that it is highly possible Jack William Cape was Doris' brother, but, an assumption on my part is not proof!!

All this info is being closely watched by my family, they are all eager to see if P***** can be found.
I will let you know if my e-mail as above gets a reply!!

V.
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 27 July 10 23:26 BST (UK)
Well Done Judith!

That electoral discovery adds another speck of light in Val's mystery.

I think we can  say we have a connection here.

Now we can only hope that JACK's children have knowledge  of there aunt and cousin and that they can be locted.

If there was a son he will have the name CAPE which will be easier than JOHNSON perhaps.
Sue   
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: judb on Wednesday 28 July 10 01:01 BST (UK)
Sue, It was your good work in finding the arrival and marriages, that enabled the finding on the electoral rolls.

I can probably get to the library tomorrow to do look-ups for the SMH and the Tele, but can't promise.

Am I right in thinking we don't have a death yet for Doris? 

Cheers, Judith
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 28 July 10 02:25 BST (UK)
That is right Judith. We do not have adeath.

She was only married to CHARLES for 13 or 14 years before he died and may have married again after his death.

Also, we have not been able to search for a death, because we have not had parents' names.

Sue
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 28 July 10 02:52 BST (UK)
Jack and Josephine were cemated and memorialised at Woronora Cemetery.

Some cemeteries will give information from their records regarding who paid for the arrangements and who were the funeral directors.  This will be another avenue worth following.

CAPE JACK WILLIAM                  
Date of Death:29/01/1999  INTERRED  03/05/1999
Location.   Henry Kendall Gardens ROSE GARDEN 8   0022

CAPE JOSEPHINE SAUNDERS               
Date of Death:01/09/2003 INTERRED 28/10/2003
Location   Henry Kendall Gardens ROSE GARDEN 8   0021

Sue



Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: judb on Wednesday 28 July 10 03:09 BST (UK)
Free Bmd has these births.  (Mother's names are only indexed after 1911)

Jun qr 1908
Janet Adelaide CAPE   reg at  Fulham  Vol 1a p243

Mar qr 1910
Doris CAPE    reg at  Brentford  Vol 3a p191

June qr 1922
Jack W CAPE,  mother's maiden name - Murts, reg at Brentford  Vol 3a p366

This looks very likely the marrige of the mother, June qr 1907
MURTS  Janet Adelaide,  reg at  Fulham,  Vol 1a p61_

Unfortuantely Free BMD does not give access to the page to see what the father's name is  :(

Edit to add:

There are two CAPE men's marriages shown in reg district Fulham for that quarter:
CAPE  Herbert Jonathan     Fulham  1a 609   
CAPE  William Joseph     Fulham  1a 619

Given that Janet MURTS is on p 61_ , I would hazard a guess that her bloke is William Joseph CAPE (also fits with the son Jack's second name)


Judith
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 28 July 10 04:14 BST (UK)
Just to confirm the likliehood of WILLIAM being the spouse.

( per Judith)

MURTS  Janet Adelaide,
 reg at  Fulham,  Vol 1a p61_

Marriage Jun 1907 1/4 
CAPE  William Joseph    Fulham vol  1a  page 619

There is a sort of explanation on free bmd as to why the crossmatching is not possible in this case, but the page number, had it been printed in full instead of with dash for the last digit, would probably have been 619

Sue   

Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: judb on Wednesday 28 July 10 07:07 BST (UK)
Free BMD has this death which might explain the CAPE family coming to Australia in 1923

Sep qr 1923
William J CAPE, 47, reg at  Brentford  3a 167

There appear to be a number of CAPE entries for Brentford in the 1911 census, including Doris aged 7 months.  I don't have a subscription so can only look at the summary:
http://www.1911census.co.uk/search/results4.aspx?x=1378996534

The family can be traced further back if you think these are the right people.

Judith

 
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: judb on Thursday 29 July 10 04:19 BST (UK)
Sydney Morning Herald - 28 August 1980 Deaths
MCCAULEY Janet Adelaide - August 27, 1980 (suddenly), late of Fairview Rd, Cabramatta, dearly loved wife of Noel (deceased), beloved sister of Doris, Jack and Robert, loved aunty of John and Peter.  Aged 72 years.
Funeral notice for 29 August at chapel of  the Forest Lawn Crematorium, Leppington.  Undertakers: Macarthur District Funerals Pty Ltd.

Sydney Morning Herald 1 February, 1999 - DEATHS
Death/funeral notice for Jack William CAPE inserted by the Peakhurst Bowling and Recreation Club. It states that Jack was formerly the Director of the NSW State Lotteries.  No family info in this notice.

Daily Telegraph, 30 Jan 1999 Death and Funeral Notices:
CAPE, Jack William.  January 29, 1999, late of Riverwood.  Loving husband of Josephine, adored father and father-in-law of John and Pamela, cherished granddad of Rachel and Alison, brother of Bob.   Loved by all family in Australia and America.
Funeral 2 Feb from St Andrew's Anglican Church, Riverwood to Woronora Crematorium.  Undertakers Metropolitan Funeral Home, Bankstown.

Daily Telegraph, 3 Sep 2003
CAPE, Josephine Saunders, Passed away September 1, 2003 at Amity Nursing Home , Bexley.  Beloved wife of Jack (dec) and loving father of John, Grandma to Rachel and Alison.  Aged 86 years. Now with Dad in Heaven.  Funeral 5 Sep at Woronora, same undertakers as Jack.  (This is as printed - 'father of John'- corrected next day's notice.)


Daily Telegraph, 4 Sep 2003
CAPE, Josephine Saunders, Passed away September 1, 2003 at Amity Nursing Home , Bexley.  Beloved wife of Jack (dec) and loving mother of John, Grandma to Rachel and Alison, sister of Queeni (dec), Beryl (Massachusetts USA) and Cecil.  Aged 86 years. Loved by all her family in Australia and America.  Now with Dad in Heaven. 

Cheers, Judith
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: judb on Thursday 29 July 10 08:25 BST (UK)
I winder if this is Robert's birth?

FreeBMD Dec qr 1905
Robert Arthur CAPE reg at  Fulham  Vol 1a, p 206

The only electoral roll entry seems to be in 1954 - he's at 146 Crown St, electrical fitter.

Judith
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 29 July 10 08:54 BST (UK)
Mmmm......!!
Exnup!!
;);)

This DEATH Mar 1/4/1906

CAPE  Robert Arthur  0  Fulham  1a 155
Sue 
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 29 July 10 09:26 BST (UK)
Noting here that he was listed as only ROBERT CAPE (no ARTHUR) on the electoral roll.

Sue
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: Valgenie on Thursday 29 July 10 12:13 BST (UK)
From the 1911 Census:

CAPE, William , Head, Married 4 years   Male age 33 Removal Foreman  Born: Shepherds Bush

CAPE, Janet     Wife   married                Female aged 29                         Born; Shepherds Bush

CAPE, Adelaide Daughter                      Female aged 3                            Born: Shephards Bush

CAPE  Doris      Daughter                      Female aged 4 months               Born: Acton


 :) :) :)                 V.
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 29 July 10 12:48 BST (UK)
Hi All,

Wonderful searching by Judith at the Library.  The information she has turned up certainly gives some direction. 

Robert's birth in England  seems elusive. Possibly he was Australian born, being a half-brother??

Sue
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: judb on Thursday 29 July 10 12:57 BST (UK)
Well found Sue.  So it looks as though we can discount the Robert Cape b1905 .  I can't see any other appropriate records for a Robert CAPE in Australia or UK.  Only the possible death in 2008 listed by Ryerson:

Death Notice: (SMH 7 November 2008, and Goulburn Post same date) for a Robert (known as Bob) CAPE, of Caora Rd Tallong, friend of Leon and Trish.  Undertaker: Bob Rudd, Reynolds St, Goulburn.  No other details given.


I would have thought he would have to have been born after Doris and before emigrating to Australia (although I suppose Janet may have been pregnant  and Robert is a posthumous baby) so could be as late as 1923/4, or even later if he was from another marriage/relationship.  Unfortunately online indexes for NSW births finish at 1909.

There is a 10year gap between births of Doris and Jack - not that that means much!

Judith
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: sparrett on Friday 30 July 10 00:06 BST (UK)
Hi All,
Ah well, whatever Roberts's beginnings were it seem our knowledge of him is not gong to further our efforts to find P*****

Sue
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: Valgenie on Friday 30 July 10 10:23 BST (UK)
Update from V.

Have reached a J. Cape in Sydney, a lady who states all her family were from Cumberland. She stated that I probably wanted the family of the Director of the NSW lottery. She did not know he was deceased. Her last words to me were "Make sure I am included if you have a Cape family reunion!!"

Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: judb on Friday 30 July 10 14:27 BST (UK)
Oh well, another one bites the dust, as they say  :-\
Ms Cape was a bit out of date as Jack died more than 10 years ago!

Not that this helps but I see Jack was in the RAN during WW2

http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/script/name.asp

Jack William CAPE
Royal Australian Navy  Service Number S5988 
Born: 1 Mar 1922, CHISWICK, LONDON, ENGLAND 
Date of Enlistment 1 Oct 1941 
Locality on Enlistment KATOOMBA, NSW 
Home Port/Port Division SYDNEY, NSW 
Next of Kin Josephine CAPE
Date of Discharge 11 Mar 1946
Rank Able Seaman 
Posting at Discharge HMAS Rushcutter 

Judith
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: tropicalj on Saturday 31 July 10 05:56 BST (UK)
A very interesting thread and a lot of good detective work done ;D

Perhaps as the surname Cape is far far less common  than Johnson

I would suggest a look at the online telephone directory for  the surname CAPE,
  there is a few  but if you were able to write to them all you might just find one that is related
http://www.whitepages.com.au/wp/busSearch.jhtml

search under residential

or you could try posting a advertisment in  the personal colums of the Sydney Morning Herald. 
kind thoughts Jenn
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: sparrett on Monday 02 August 10 02:39 BST (UK)
Hi Val ,
From the Electoral Roll at the Australian Electoral Commission Office I have located some people whose names match three of the family names mentioned on the Obituary for JACK WILLIAM CAPE in 1999.

 I have their postal addresses and using that , you may also find their telephone contacts in the whitepages if they are listed, in case you prefer to phone.

There is no guarantee that they are the relatives you are seeking, but no doubt you will wish to follow all leads.  We have been lucky that the name CAPE is not too common.

I will PM these names to you as the privacy of living individuals must be respected.

I’m sure we will all be keen to know how you get on ,so do keep us informed.

Sue
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: judb on Monday 02 August 10 03:14 BST (UK)
Well done, Sue.

Judith
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: Valgenie on Monday 02 August 10 11:27 BST (UK)
Keeping up to date on this thread, trying to find tel. numbers. (no luck so far, no matches for tel number addresses with those on the e.roll). 

Might have to resort to writing letters. Mother asked me to send for Doris Cape's marriage to CHJ
so we have the cert. on hand. 

Would like to send a photo of CHJ/Mother/Me so you could see the incredible likeness! But the j.peg file size exceeds that of 500KB. 

Val
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: sparrett on Monday 02 August 10 12:46 BST (UK)
Hi Val,
trying to find tel. numbers.


It is not compulsory to be listed in the White Pages and many, for various good ,reasons, choose not to be.

'Resorting to writing letters" -as you say- is not such  a poor option as those you are addressing have time to consider their response (for better or worse!).

The names, with  addresses, I have sent to you (PM) are the obvious, direct and only means of contact. 

You should take your mother's advice regarding the Marriage Certificate BEFORE you contact the people I have found for you.
Sue

PS. You 're welcome. :D :D :D

Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: judb on Monday 02 August 10 13:33 BST (UK)
So pleased you have got this far, Val.

I agree with Sue that writing is not such a bad option and also to get the marriage certificate - bearing in mind that perhaps they may not have formally married.  Did he divorce Beatrice?  The laws in Australia are quite supportive of common-law marriages.  There is a recognition that they have many of the same rights as formally mrried couples after the couple have been together for a certain period.  (Each state has slightly different laws/regulations.)

I can have a trawl through all of the Doris Johnson entries on Ryerson but it is unlikely that there will be any further identification of the son as Johnson is such a common name.   :(  Unfortunately I may not be able to get to the library until next week.

Judith
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: Valgenie on Monday 02 August 10 18:58 BST (UK)
Addressing the question: Were CHJ and Beatrice divorced?  Answer is NO, not that I am aware of.

Years ago, we went to The National Archives and combed through Johnson V Johnson. Nothing.
Now the Divorce Indexes are online, and I have re-checked.  Still nothing.

 B. died in 1944 and never discussed any of this with my mother.  She had remarried in 1928, so had she had CHJ delcared "missing, presumed died?". Answer No. On her app for remarriage, she declares herself a widow.     
 ???

Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: Valgenie on Wednesday 01 September 10 21:41 BST (UK)
A very big Thank You to all who helped solve this mystery. Living relative has been found and mysteries have been solved.  All this would never have happend without ROOTSCHAT and those wonderful and interested researchers. 

V.
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: tropicalj on Wednesday 01 September 10 22:02 BST (UK)
Very happy to hear you have had a good outcome

kind thoughts Jenn
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 02 September 10 03:26 BST (UK)
Hi Val,
We all hope the reunion is joyful, especially for your mother ;D

Pleasure to be part of the helping team.

Sue
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: judb on Thursday 02 September 10 08:17 BST (UK)
Well done, Val.

It's been good search and so nice to have a succesful conclusion!

Judith
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: jeanffrench on Wednesday 26 March 25 01:47 GMT (UK)
What a great thread, with so many people helping. I came here because Doris Johnson, nee Cape, is my 5th cousin, via our distant Gill ancestors from Devon. I wonder if any of these Cape descendants have done a DNA test? I have tested at Ancestry, and my DNA is at MyHeritage, Ancestry, FTDNA and GEDmatch. I would LOVE to find a match.
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: Valgenie on Wednesday 26 March 25 12:25 GMT (UK)
Hello,
After finding my grandfather in AUS. I now have loads of relatives. Since my uncle's mother was Doris Cape, wouldn't his children be related to you?  However, I am not sure if they have done their
DNA.  Doris is NOT related to me.  Does this help?
Valerie
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: jeanffrench on Wednesday 26 March 25 12:42 GMT (UK)
Yes, I understand that you are not related to me, but Doris's children, and the children of her siblings would be related to me.
Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: Valgenie on Wednesday 26 March 25 16:48 GMT (UK)
Do you want me to ask my relative if he would like to be in touch with you?  As he is in Aus. and I am in the UK, we do not talk often, but I know he is very keen on Family History.  And he has been here and met us all.  His cousin is John Cape.
V.

Title: Re: Charles Howard JOHNSON
Post by: jeanffrench on Wednesday 26 March 25 20:55 GMT (UK)
Yes please, my email is jeanffrench at hotmail dot com