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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: finpat on Wednesday 21 July 10 21:42 BST (UK)
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My grandfather Richard Coleman was killed serving with the 7th battalion south Lancashire regiment on the 10 June 1917. He has no known grave so I am trying to find out if possible where and how he died so as I can try and find a likely cemetery he may be in any help you can give will be most grateful.
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Hello,
You probably know that Richard Coleman's name is on the Menin Gate in Ypres. This means that his body was never found or identified and therefore, sadly, you won't be able to find him in any cemetery.
Jen
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Hi there
I was hoping by finding out what they were doing on the 10th June I may be able to at least know where he was killed and if there is a cemetery near then he may be in there in the unknown graves.
Fin
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If you post a separate query in the WW1 threads, I'm sure someone will be able to tell you where his regiment was at that time.
Jen :)
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I found a website for the Museum of the South Lancashire Regiment - it gives little information, but does give an address (below). It might be worth writing to see if they can help.
Peninsula Barracks
Warrington
Cheshire
WA2 7BR
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Thanks for that I will give it a try.
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I sent for a death cert from ww1 for granddad's nephew as he was missing presumed dead. He was mentioned on the thiepval monument to the missing. His death cert was interesting, athough a date was given on the commonwealth war graves site ,when the cert came it said it had been some time since the officer had been seen and so that's why the cert was issued. It said presumed killed somewhere in france or belgium. I had got the medal index card entry and address where he had been living prior to joining up. I also managed to get 2 photos of him from newspaper , walsall archives had 2 indexed books which listed entries for him in newspapers and i managed to get copies of the newspaper photos although one was bit grainey like some are. The phos where the following april when he had been dclared missing presumed dead the previous july. One of the papers carried cameo type photos and was entitled the toll of the brave and i think the one book's author was satterwaite. aAlso the longlongtrail site may give info of where his unit was. I am going to try for a war diary next.
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The war diary for the 7th Battalion South Lancs is available from the National Archives:
Piece reference WO 95/2081 - 56 Infantry Brigade: 7 Battalion South Lancashire Regiment
Unfortunately it has not yet been digitalised, but I believe that you can order a copy of the relevant pages here:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/search.asp
Enter: South Lancashire Regiment in the word or phrase box
Year range: 1914 - 1920
Department Code: WO 95/2081
Just follow the links.
jds1949
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I checked this out using Geoff's Search Engine (http://www.hut-six.co.uk/cgi-bin/search1421.php) and found 11 other men from the South Lancs Regiment who died on that date. Of these, one is buried at Bedford House Cemetery, one at Vlamertinghe New Cemetery, and 9 at Wytschaete Military Cemetery (http://www.cwgc.org/search/cemetery_details.aspx?cemetery=51700&mode=1). So Wytschaete looks the most promising.
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Thanks for the help my grandmother got his pay book back after his death so must have been a body but no grave site. She told me that he had been wounded but was ran over by a tank whether this was true or not I do not know. But I will try and locate the area they were in on the 10th thanks again for assistance.
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I have updated this thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=157591
with some detail
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I sent for a death cert from ww1 for granddad's nephew as he was missing presumed dead. He was mentioned on the thiepval monument to the missing. His death cert was interesting, athough a date was given on the commonwealth war graves site ,when the cert came it said it had been some time since the officer had been seen and so that's why the cert was issued. It said presumed killed somewhere in france or belgium.
Interestingly, both the CWGC site and the death certificate I got for my g.uncle both state that he died of wounds on 24 November 1917. If they know he died of his wounds, why is he only mentioned on the Cambrai Memorial at Louverval rather than having a grave?
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What sometimes happened, Lizzie, is that battlefield cemeteries were overrun during subsequent fighting and the graves were lost.
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Sloe Gin - Oh, so you mean he was injured, died from his wounds, was probably buried by his colleagues, then his grave lost in later fighting. How sad. That makes sense, because on CWGC there is now an account of the Battle of Cambrai where he died (that seems to be a recent introduction to the site). I have been to visit the Cambrai monument which is beautiful and have photographs of it.
Of course, I never knew him, but I feel I should look after him, he became orphaned aged 8, went into an orphanage, left at 14, joined the army (before WWI), then went all through WWI until November 1917, then was killed. There is no reference to a marriage, so I guess he remained single until his death. My grandfather (his brother) never mentioned him or his other siblings, so no-one knew he had ever lived or died, until I started researching my family.
Lizzie
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Lizzie,
This is what I think has happened to at least one of my great uncles. On another thread, where I have been superbly helped by martinc, he pointed out to me that the area in which my grandfather's brother was fighting was very heavily shelled, throughout the duration of the war and that many graves will have been destroyed. Any bodies found subsequently would almost certainly be unrecognisable and so those men will have ended up as names on a memorial somewhere - in my case, on the Menin Gate.
What I find quite extraordinary is that, given the total devastation of the area, so many soldiers were buried in properly marked graves. The work of the CWGC was, and still is, a remarkable feat. Like many others, I watched the programme on Fromelles and they have done it again. The quiet dignity of those cemeteries is very special, I think.
Jen :)
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Would there be records of where the men were buried first.
Fin
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You could try writing to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission to ask if they have any additional information regarding your grandfather.