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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Facepainter on Wednesday 21 July 10 09:53 BST (UK)
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I have tried to do some research, and through Genes Reunited have a tree match which has given me a paternal line that someone else has found. They are a paid researcher though, so I only have names and birthdates, and lots of spaces, so am having to find them all myself - at least I have some idea of who to look for though because that goes back to the early 1800's.
I'm now working my way through and I have found my grandfathers sisters hardest to locate.
He is Christopher Andrew Cates was born 22nd November 1911 and his birthplace on his birth certificate is Croydon sub district Mitcham.
he is entry number 345 of register book No. 82.
My great grandfather is also Christopher Andrew Cates (b. 1887) and his mother was Annie Griffiths (1889.).
To go backwards I can use the census' - but I don't know how to find his sisters names. Could anyone give me a pointer please?
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Welcome to RootsChat Facepainter :)
It seems that Christopher jr was Christopher and Annie's first child. Youre lucky - from late 1911 on, the mother's maiden name shows on the birth index.
Go to FreeBMD www.freebmd.org.uk and search for births surname Cates, mother's maiden name Griffiths. You'll find 2 girls born 1916 and 1920 in Bromley district.
:)
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Edith and Ethel!
Thankyou so much.
When you know where to look I'm sure it gets easier. As a beginner though currently it's just hugely daunting. I'm so grateful for the pointer.
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FreeBMD isn't complete but I suggest you search for marriage in the name Edith A Cates - you'll see who she married in 1939 (click on the page number to find out the gentleman's full name)
There's no match on FreeBMD for Ethel I'm afraid. Using a different source (not free, unfortunately), I can only see one possible marriage for Ethel,as late as 1960. I'll send you the details by private message.
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Blimey you are good!
My grandmother always referred to them as 'the two spinsters'. so I wasn't even going to look for marriages.
lesson 1, don't assume you know anything.
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Anything interesting for you here?
1901 census
RG13/431 174 38
Lambeth, London
20 Waterloo Rd
Edward Cates, head, 41, General Labourer, b. London Wapping
Charlotte, wife, 48, b. Kings Cross
Edward J, son, 15, Van Boy, b. Edgware Rd
Christopher, son, 14, b. do.
Lottie M, dau, 12, b. do.
Ellen G, dau, 9, b. do.
1891
RG12/100 26 48
St Marylebone, London
48 Edward St
Edward Cates, head, 31, General Labourer, b. Wapping
Charlotte, wife, 38, b. St Pancras
Frederick, son, 15, Plumber's Labourer, b. do.
Edward, son, 5, b. Marylebone
Christopher, son, 4, b. do.
Lottie, dau, 2, b. do.
Ellen, dau, 6 months, b. do.
Big age gap between Frederick and the others! I suppose he belonged to Charlotte before she married Edward.
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That's them!
Edward (my great great grandad) Born 1860 married Charlotte Fear c1853
Christopher (1887) is my great-grandad.
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Christenings at St Augustine Kilburn to parents Edward Cates and Charlotte:
Edward James Cates 26 May 1886
parents Edward Cates & Charlotte of 3 Charlottes Place, Old Church St W, father a carman
Christopher Andrew Cates 25 May 1887
parents Edward Cates & Charlotte of 3 Charlottes Place Paddington, father a Carman
Ellen Gertrude Cates 17 Jun 1891
parents Edward Cates & Charlotte of 196 Carlton road, father a Labourer
Lottie Maria Cates same date, same details.
You mentioned another daughter in your PM but I can't see her.
You have Edward jr marrying Jessie Milan (1906 Wandsworth). I think their children were William ca. 1908 and Edward ca. 1909.
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I wonder what 'a carman' is.
I may have errored in my pm because this is the full set.
my 'unknown' girl is from Frederick.
He married Charlotte Mann (c1873) and I have them with a daughter, but I know no detail of her.
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Edward sr doesn't appear to have any siblings showing in 1871 and 1881 - mother Abigail, father James as you said - other than a 10 years older half sister in 1861.
Marriage details Edward Cates - Charlotte Fear
St Barnabas Marylebone 11 Jan 1885
Edward Cates, 24, Bachelor, Carman, 3 Carlisle Street, Father James Cates Carman
Charlotte Fear, 31, spinster, servant, 3 Carlisle Street, Father Richard Fear, occupation Drover?
witnesses Elizabeth Maguire and F.H. Deane
oops - yes sorry, just realised the unknown girl belonged to Frederick!
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The 1901 census shows Frederick (John) Cates and his wife Charlotte (Keziah) with a 1 year old daughter Charlotte C born Wood Green.
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How do we like this Griffiths family? (FreeBMD shows than Annie married as Annie A Griffiths in 1910)
1901
RG13/485 53 44
Wandsworth, London
72 Wardley St
Oliver E Griffiths, head, 40, Stoker, b. Stratford
Ellen M, wife, 39, b. Battersea Surrey
Henry D E, son, 19, Wheelwright, b. Wandsworth
Florence, dau, 16, Laundress, b. do.
Annie A, dau, 11, b. do.
Ernest G, son, 14, Box Maker, b. do.
Albert, son, 9, b. do.
Arthur, son, 7, b. do.
Ethel, dau, 5, b. do.
Alice, dau, 2, b. do.
Rose, dau, 2 mo, b. do.
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As we hit an Annie, an Ethel and an Arthur we like them a lot.
But then I have thought that before and crashed into a wall because families seem to use the same names again and again and again (even for siblings!).
My ultimate James c1814 that we have found had a family with his first wife (ann lucking) before moving onto Abigail and having our edward.
Well, his first children - which only makes them half blood relations to my family) were James (of course) ANOTHER Christopher a John (believe it or not this reappears for my father, a SECOND Christopher A susan, an Ann, a Sarah (my name) an Ann and a Phoebe (now a very famous Cates indeed).
So he had two christophers and then in his second marriage an Edward who then called his son christopher and he called HIS son Christopher. And they used the same middle name at least twice!
It almost feels sometimes that it's designed to confuse.
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I think we're all in the same boat - mine had a dreadful lack of imagination too :(
Marriage 17 April 1881 St Anne's Wandsworth
Oliver Griffiths, 20, Bachelor, Engine Driver, St Anne's Wandsworth, father Thomas Griffiths, Silk Printer
Ellen Mary Bowyer, 20, Spinster, St Anne's Wandsworth, father Henry Boyer, Gardener
Witnesses Thomas Griffiths and Elizabeth Finlayson
Do you have the James Abigail marriage details yet, mentioning their fathers?
27 Nov 1859 Bethnal Green
James Cates, 45, Widower, Brewer's servant, Pearl Street, father John Cates Labourer
Abigail Blackman, full age, widow, Pearl Street, father Charles Thipthorp, Labourer
Witnesses George King and Jane Hanson
(Abigail Thipthorp married a William Blackman in 1845)
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I have nothing on James and Abigail at all. That's where it all stops for me.
I have James c1814, married to Ann Lucking c1816 then remarried to Abigail Blackman 1821.
That's as far back as I go - yours looks likely though doesn't it?
and a carman drove either horse drawn trams, or horse drawn delivery vehicles especially for the railroad apparently.
Every day's a schoolday.