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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: liz hamilton on Monday 19 July 10 19:13 BST (UK)
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can any one do me a look up for an Alice Coyle or Kyle born in Ireland please,hope i have used this post correctly
liz hamilton
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can anyone look up the 1871 census for an Alice Coyle or Kyle born in Ireland
many thanks
liz hamilton :)
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Is this her?
Phillip Coyle 53
Alice Coyle 50
Phillip Coyle 23
Mary Coyle 16
Ann Mooney 30
Margt Cargle 18
Address 53 Fore St Kilmarnock
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SP 1871 census has one Alice Coyle in residing in Lanarkshire, Shettleston
Aged 20, born ENGLAND,
I think the "relationship to Head of Household" is "Inmate of Reform School". Could this be her?
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,469207.msg3293126.html#msg3293126
Topics merged
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Bless you for trying to help me,i appreciate it
my Alice Coyle or Kyle would have been about 25years of age she may have had a child Mary with her but it is such a mystery,she married 1871 in Belfast was alledged to be a widow in 1873 but then claims poor relief in Glasgow for herself and her daughteraged 4yrs
i know lack of education, and the Irish accent would not of helped beautiful as it is,the other thing that is a brick wall is that her daughter was born in Dublin ireland,so i suppose a later census would maybe be the answer
i have been trying so long that sometime i think give up,but i am 79yrs and start nibbling again
many thanks
god bless and keep you and yours
Liz Hamilton
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Hi Liz
Everybody keen to help but I think we need a little bit more info on Alice from you :)
- What do you have on her so far and her daughter Mary?
- Have you confirmed her 1871 marriage and who did she marry? Was Coyle/Kyle her maiden name or married name?
- Do you know what happened to Alice and daughter Mary after the 1873 poor relief application.
- Are you descended from daughter Mary or how have you worked back to this line?
Sorry for all the questions! But the more info you can give us that you already have, the better opportunity people have to try and find something for you :)
Monica
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According another thread of yours on Ireland-General board -
I have my grandmothers birth place as Dublin,parents patrick Coyle and Alice Killpatrick married 1871 in the Holy Cross RC church Belfast area3 Patrick alledged to have died in 1873 at sea,this is some mystery,
child named Mary i have searched every where i can think off,can never get reply from Dublin,can anyone help me
Liz
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think i got that around my neck
they were married 1871 august 8th
mary was born either 1871/1872/1873
but still a mystery
god bless
lizxx
If Peter and Alice were married in Belfast in 1871 it's quite likely that they would not appear in 1871 census in Scotland (especially since daughter Mary was supposed to be born in Dublin).
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hi
Alice's maiden name was Killpatrick she married a PATRICK COYLE IN BELFAST 1871,have no more information on her someone gave me this information about her on Rootchat web adding that i had been spelling her maiden name with one L should have had two Ls
I could be descended from her daughter Mary but have no knowledge on this,and off course can get no records of immigrating to Scotland when or how because it was British territory so assuming she arrived in Scotland 1800s which census would she be on
thank you for every ones interest
god bless
Liz
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It's always best to work back through records in a logical manner otherwise you could end up following details of the wrong person.
If you are trying to make a connection with Alice (although you'd probably be wiser to find a certain link to her daughter Mary before doing so) you should probably check Scottish records for Alice and Mary to find out when and where Alice married,when and where Mary was born,etc.
Civil registration records in Ireland should list Mary's birth and Alice's marriage if those events took place in Ireland. I'vealready suggested on your other thread that Mary might have been born before parents married (if indeed they did marry) and would thus be registered under her mother's name.
http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1408347
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SP has this death record
1915 KYLE ALICE other name KILPATRICK Female aged 58 at POSSILPARK GLASGOW CITY/LANARK
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Hello Liz,
You mentioned that Alice claimed Poor Relief in Glasgow.
If you have a copy of the application it may well show her address at the time and previous addresses, including how long in Years, Months, Days that she was at any given address upto the point of her making a claim. This is useful to have as it was generally given by the applicant and verified by the inspectors, so it is first hand information. It may also make mention of relatives .
On the Glasgow / Govan poor relief applications it is shown o=under the heading of Particulars of Settlement, and works from top to bottom in a chronological order.
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Going through your posts Liz as I was getting a bit confused! As summary to help here:
- Patrick Coyle and Alice Killpatrick married on 8 Aug. 1871 in Belfast, a Catholic service
- Patrick Coyle is supposed to have drowned (he was a seaman) in 1873.
- You have poor relief notes for Alice applying for aid in Glasgow in 1873. You say on this application she is noted as having a daughter Mary who was four in 1873.
- You also have Mary marrying a William Ashwood in Maryhill, Glasgow in 1896. On this her parents show as Patrick and Alice, father deceased.
Now:
- Is Mary your grandmother? Is this how you have worked back to Patrick and Alice?
- Have you found Mary and Alice on any census in Scotland, particularly Mary after her marriage to William Ashwood?
- Have you managed to obtain a copy of the marriage of Patrick and Alice from 1871 to confirm ages, occupation etc.?
- Do Mary's ages, in what you have for her, confirm her birth as Dublin and birth year (or does her age vary a lot?). If she was 4 in 1873, likely she may have been born before parents married in 1871.
Sancti's possible death entry in 1915 in Glasgow for an Alice Kyle/Kilpatrick looks promising.
Monica :)
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Surname given as Kyle
1896 ASHWOOD WILLIAM and KYLE MARY at MARYHILL GLASGOW/LANARK
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1891 census has this record
Name: Mary Kyle
Age: 20
Relationship: Officer in Home (Officer)
Where born: Ireland
Civil parish: Glasgow Barony
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 125 Hill St Salvation Army Rescue Home
Occupation: Officer in Salvation Army Home
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If Mary was born before Alice married Peter Kyle then her birth would not have been registered as Kyle. Since she seems to have been before the marriage it's quite likely she became known as Kyle afterwards and gave name of mother's husband as her father on her marriage. She might have been Peter's daughter or perhaps thought Peter was her father.
A marriage c1871 in Ireland would appear in the civil index and this marriage doesn't seem to have been found.
http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1408347
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That could well be her Sancti ;) Having read through Liz's posts, there is a connection with the Salvation Army somewhere.
There is a possible for a William Ashwood in Maryhill on the 1901 census but he shows with parents, Robert and Ann at 79 Bardowie St in Maryhill, no sign of a possible wife and the transcript doesn't show marital status. This William is down as born c. 1871 in Denny Stirlingshire and shows as an iron moulder by trade.
Monica
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Aghadowey, I wonder how Dixiedee found the reference for the marriage - www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,347010.0.html - on the Emerald Ancestors website. Should also show on the statutory Registers :-\
Monica
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Alice and Mary are in Ireland for 1901!
From the index as the original is hard to read www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Court_Ward/Brownlow_Street/963895/
And the original image with a little bit more detail www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000320182/
Monica
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Sorry- that's what happens with several threads on different boards about the same people. Yes, marriage was found 1871 in Belfast so if Mary was 4 years old in 1873... However, it does not seem to appear in either the civil registration index of Irish marriages on LDS Pilot site (I've just checked both again)
Well done, Monica. 1901 census gives Alice's birthplace as Scotland (not Ireland).
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Liz- the 1901 census record shows Mary Ashwood with children and mother Alice- does this information now allow you to make a connection to this Mary (or to disprove it)?
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If it is still needed, think I just found the references for the marriage in Belfast. There are entries for a Patrick Coyle and an Alice Killpatrick both with ref: Vol. 11, page 447, Belfast 1871.
Monica
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thank you to everyone,it would seem that the marriage certificate i have for 1871 maybe the wrong one,i am so confused,will take a while to get my house in order as they say but thank you and God Bless you all
Liz Hamilton
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Liz
Why do you think it is the wrong one?
I am still trying to understand how you have worked back to where you are. Can you explain so we can help better :)
Monica