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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: ScallyW on Saturday 17 July 10 20:20 BST (UK)

Title: Smiths at Cherry Island - 1871
Post by: ScallyW on Saturday 17 July 10 20:20 BST (UK)
I'm wondering if anyone can help me with the following families found in the 1871 Cherry Island census record.

Thomas Smith  1844 Cambridgeshire
Naomi Smith 1844 Waltham Abbey
Amy Smith 1868 Wanstead
Caroline Smith 1870  Little Ilford

Josiah Smith  1837  Cambridgeshire
Alice Smith  1839  Cambridgeshire
Walter Smith  1857   Rainham, Essex
Arthur Smith  1862  Haddon Cambridgeshire
Sidney  Smith 1865 Orfton Green, Kent
Emas Smith  1867  Coffeshall, Essex
Elenor Smith (Son)  1869  Loughton, Essex

Abraham Law  1823  Hertfordshire.
Eliza Law  1824  Herts.
Sarah Smith  1860  Brentwood, Essex,
Charity Smith  1857  Herts
John Smith  1849  Barking, Essex.
William Smith  1853  Bromley, Mdx,
James Smith  1864  Loughton, Essex.

Frank Smith  1847  Suffolk
Lavinia Smith  1847  Suffolk
Lena Smith  1867  Middlesex
Leonard Smith  1854  Suffolk
(A note is posted by a user saying these are really Buckleys)


The reason I'm asking is that next to or nearby are other Smith connected families (who I have in my tree) and I'm wondering if there is a link between them or not.

The other families are that of ... 

Cornelius Smith and family
Bartholomew Smith and family (brother of above)
Naomi with husband Alger Taylor and children together (daughter of Bartholomew)
Santalina Buckley and family (listed as Butler and in-law to Woodlock, a brother to Cornelius and Bartholomew)
Abraham Lee (plus children Lizzie and Abraham) whose wife was a Smith.
Moses Smith and family (cousin to Cornelius and Bartholomew)
David Lee 'Blind Davy' and family (brother to Abraham above)


So, all in all, it's apparent that a lot of the families were linked in some way but I have no idea of the four families listed above and whether or not they tie in with the other Smiths listed.

Does anyone have any information on these people and can confirm one way or another if they are from the same family?

Regards
ScallyW
Title: Re: Smiths at Cherry Island - 1871
Post by: social-butterflies on Saturday 31 July 10 19:21 BST (UK)
hi scallyw
i have found this too when i searched for some of my ancestors.
what i can say is that josiah smith with wife alice is actually a buckley. they used her smith name as an alias.
he is half brother (not cousin as i first put- sorry) to santalina butler who again is a buckley and his sister justina (known also as testana) is married to woodlock smith. frank smith with wife lavinia is also frank buckley and wife elvira, they had children morselina 1867 & a son leonard.
sant, frank and justina are siblings , (they aslo have a brother carnation) and josiah is their half brother (same mum but the fathers of this lot were 2 brothers) :o
carnation went on to pair up with alice smith, (josaih's) his half brothers wife.  ::) i know it gets quite complicated does'nt it :)
many buckleys used the name smith as alias.
hope this helps some
a.
Title: Re: Smiths at Cherry Island - 1871
Post by: taffi52 on Sunday 01 August 10 15:55 BST (UK)
Hello all... I have been looking into the buckley/Smith lines for a few months now
and quite agree it is complicated. I have tried to merge all the info I can find.

I too have a couple of queries and wonder if any members can shed some light on my
findings/assumptions.

I have first hand info from my dad.. Ernest Buckley b 1928 in Rochford.
He remembers several uncles - Elijah, Bertie, Nathan, also Gente.
Through this I have traced who I think is the correct family.
However...
His parents marriage cert states Ernest Albert m Beatrice Yelham.
His dad was 'known' as Oti, but I believe this was his real name and prob changed it
because of the gypsy stigma.
Could I be right?

Also he is adamant about this uncle Elijah, who he calls great uncle Elijah..who had a thyroid problem just like my dad. My dad was not born until 1928 so Elijah must have still been living around 1940.

Can anyone help/confirm my suspicions?
Title: Re: Smiths at Cherry Island - 1871
Post by: social-butterflies on Sunday 01 August 10 16:29 BST (UK)
hi taffi52

im wondering if your grandad was otto/oti who is brother to .....gently, emily william, lazarus, alger, henry, elijah, nathan. their parents were arthur & adeline/adelaide buckley/smith. (they were actually 1st cousins.)
does this sound possible?? ring any bells at all??
if so its best to p.m me for further info.
kushti bok
a.
Title: Re: Smiths at Cherry Island - 1871
Post by: taffi52 on Sunday 01 August 10 22:12 BST (UK)
Hello

YES it's them! How on earth have you found Elijah.. my dad will be thrilled. I would
love any info you can give... thank you so much

Regards
Kathy

Pic attached of my dad taken about 20 yrs ago... handsome beast he is !
Title: Re: Smiths at Cherry Island - 1871
Post by: social-butterflies on Monday 02 August 10 08:47 BST (UK)
well ell, how exciting. ;D
i will pm you later today, off to work now but wanted to let you know

does he have any photos of his family and where abouts is he living?
a.
Title: Re: Smiths at Cherry Island - 1871
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 02 August 10 11:39 BST (UK)
Details of living people aren't allowed to be posted on Rootschat so I suggest you use PM (personal message) to exchange recent family information,email addresses, etc.
Title: Re: Smiths at Cherry Island - 1871
Post by: ScallyW on Monday 02 August 10 16:11 BST (UK)
hi scallyw
i have found this too when i searched for some of my ancestors.
what i can say is that josiah smith with wife alice is actually a buckley. they used her smith name as an alias.
frank smith with wife lavinia is also frank buckley and wife elvira, they had children morselina 1867 & a son leonard.

many buckleys used the name smith as alias.
hope this helps some
a.

OK, thanks for clarifying that - I didn't know about the tendency of Buckleys to use the Smith name.  I did already have these people down anyway, but as Buckleys obviously, but at least it's cleared up one point.

Just have to work out who the other Smiths were now - Thomas and the ones living with Abraham Law.

Regards
ScallyW
Title: Re: Smiths at Cherry Island - 1871
Post by: social-butterflies on Monday 02 August 10 20:43 BST (UK)
hello scallyw.
well at least you have managed to find some of them. is the "law" family connected by marriage maybe, possibly law marreid a smith and travelled with the smith (alias buckley) families
just an idea  :D
Title: Re: Smiths at Cherry Island - 1871
Post by: social-butterflies on Monday 02 August 10 20:46 BST (UK)
hi again taffi52,
you do realise that its your ancestors that have been listed at the top of this thread dont you?

Josiah Smith  1837  Cambridgeshire
Alice Smith  1839  Cambridgeshire
Walter Smith  1857   Rainham, Essex
Arthur Smith  1862  Haddon Cambridgeshire
Sidney  Smith 1865 Orfton Green, Kent
Emas Smith  1867  Coffeshall, Essex
Elenor Smith (Son)  1869  Loughton, Essex

arthur, above,  is your oti/otto's father who goes on to marry adelaide/adeline buckley/smith.  and the rest are his siblings and his parents, josiah & alice buckley/ smith. small world is'nt it ? :)


Hello all... I have been looking into the buckley/Smith lines for a few months now
and quite agree it is complicated. I have tried to merge all the info I can find.

I too have a couple of queries and wonder if any members can shed some light on my
findings/assumptions.

I have first hand info from my dad.. Ernest Buckley b 1928 in Rochford.
He remembers several uncles - Elijah, Bertie, Nathan, also Gente.
Through this I have traced who I think is the correct family.
However...
His parents marriage cert states Ernest Albert m Beatrice Yelham.
His dad was 'known' as Oti, but I believe this was his real name and prob changed it
because of the gypsy stigma.
Could I be right?

Also he is adamant about this uncle Elijah, who he calls great uncle Elijah..who had a thyroid problem just like my dad. My dad was not born until 1928 so Elijah must have still been living around 1940.

Can anyone help/confirm my suspicions?
Title: Re: Smiths at Cherry Island - 1871
Post by: taffi52 on Monday 02 August 10 22:18 BST (UK)
No I didn't realise... thank you,

I must say, in only 2 days I have had so much help.

Title: Re: Smiths at Cherry Island - 1871
Post by: ScallyW on Monday 02 August 10 22:30 BST (UK)
hello scallyw.
well at least you have managed to find some of them. is the "law" family connected by marriage maybe, possibly law marreid a smith and travelled with the smith (alias buckley) families
just an idea  :D

I would suspect that the Eliza Law listed in my first post was originally married to a Smith, hence the names of the children listed as being Smith and Abraham was her 2nd husband.  I don't know yet who her first husband might have been or whether it was normal for a widow to carry on travelling with her in-laws as looks to be the case here.  Of course, she could have been a Smith by birth herself....  Having said that, one of Alice Smith's brothers, Frederick, married a Law so the families did mingle anyway.


On another note ... the Frank Buckley (listed as Smith) married to Alice ... I think that this Alice Smith is the daughter of James Smith and Elizabeth Odell and if this is correct, she would be the sister of my great-great-great grandfather.

Title: Re: Smiths at Cherry Island - 1871
Post by: ScallyW on Monday 02 August 10 22:54 BST (UK)
Hello all...

I have first hand info from my dad.. Ernest Buckley b 1928 in Rochford.
He remembers several uncles - Elijah, Bertie, Nathan, also Gente.
Through this I have traced who I think is the correct family.
However...
His parents marriage cert states Ernest Albert m Beatrice Yelham.
His dad was 'known' as Oti, but I believe this was his real name and prob changed it


Can anyone help/confirm my suspicions?

As a side note on the name Oti .... Josiah's half brother, Santalina, apparently had a son called Oti as well.  Born 1874, died 1958, he married an Ada Beatrice Webb in 1908.

Title: Re: Smiths at Cherry Island - 1871
Post by: social-butterflies on Monday 02 August 10 23:04 BST (UK)
hi scallyw
yes he is my g.g.grandfather
this is my family line that i am trying to trace :)
do you have any info on otey at all? he is very difficult to find, must have been using an alias i think lol :)
Title: Re: Smiths at Cherry Island - 1871
Post by: social-butterflies on Monday 02 August 10 23:08 BST (UK)
yep thats right she would..... sister to woodlock and Co :)

hello scallyw.
well at least you have managed to find some of them. is the "law" family connected by marriage maybe, possibly law marreid a smith and travelled with the smith (alias buckley) families
just an idea  :D

I would suspect that the Eliza Law listed in my first post was originally married to a Smith, hence the names of the children listed as being Smith and Abraham was her 2nd husband.  I don't know yet who her first husband might have been or whether it was normal for a widow to carry on travelling with her in-laws as looks to be the case here.  Of course, she could have been a Smith by birth herself....  Having said that, one of Alice Smith's brothers, Frederick, married a Law so the families did mingle anyway.


On another note ... the Frank Buckley (listed as Smith) married to Alice ... I think that this Alice Smith is the daughter of James Smith and Elizabeth Odell and if this is correct, she would be the sister of my great-great-great grandfather.


Title: Re: Smiths at Cherry Island - 1871
Post by: ScallyW on Tuesday 03 August 10 00:40 BST (UK)
hi scallyw
yes he is my g.g.grandfather
this is my family line that i am trying to trace :)
do you have any info on otey at all? he is very difficult to find, must have been using an alias i think lol :)

I don't have any more than that I'm afraid.  Other than the 1871 census under the name of Butler I haven't found any other records for his parents and I've searched under Buckley, Butler, Boswell and Smith, just in case.  I've also searched for his siblings on the basis that he may not have been registered as Oti if this was a nickname or a shortening of something longer for example, but I've had no luck so far.  I mention that about the nickname because elsewhere in my family there are examples of girls called Omi / Homey when in fact the original name was Naomi.
Title: Re: Smiths at Cherry Island - 1871
Post by: social-butterflies on Wednesday 04 August 10 20:04 BST (UK)
ok thanks scallyw,
its difficult is'nt it with these "secret evasive gypsy/travellrs"  ;D never really know exactly what they got up to etc but its good fun searching thats for sure and we get to meet lots of interesting people ;)
Title: Re: Smiths at Cherry Island - 1871
Post by: Russybuck on Saturday 22 January 11 14:12 GMT (UK)
Hello

YES it's them! How on earth have you found Elijah.. my dad will be thrilled. I would
love any info you can give... thank you so much

Regards
Kathy

Pic attached of my dad taken about 20 yrs ago... handsome beast he is !
Title: Re: Smiths at Cherry Island - 1871
Post by: Russybuck on Saturday 22 January 11 14:45 GMT (UK)
 Hi,
 I have something very interesting I have found out thanks to the people on this site...

 I have discovered that my fathers father Elijah Buckley b1901 has no birth on record, So i am wondering whether this Elijah Smith b1902 Rochford is him. He married Elsie martland in 1931.
 Through research there is no record at all of Elijah Buckley born in UK,
 What we think of that !!