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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Stirlingshire => Topic started by: hilarygunn on Friday 16 July 10 19:09 BST (UK)
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I have an ancestor called Robert Young b 1864 Kirkintilloch, who was a partner in a drapers shop in Stirling sometime before he moved to Yorkshire and opened his own shop in about 1907/8. I have found him in the 1891 census still living with his parents but can't find him in 1901 so i hoped to try pinning his whereabouts down via the shop if anyone has any details about it or its owners.
i have a photo of the shop which may help in recognising it but it's too large to post on this board.
Hilary
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Hi Hilary.
I'd like a look at the photo and maybe help with its identity.
Cheers.
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Hi, no problem. could you e mail me off list and I'll send it to you. I can't post it on here because it's too big and I'm not computer literate enough to do anything with it to make it fit (if that's even possible)
Hilary
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PM sent.
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Here is the photo emailed to me by Hilary.
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee209/38fergie/Roots%20Chat/RobertYoungs1stshopinStirling.jpg)
So where was it.
My first thoughts were Baker St or Broad St or even Bow Street as it once was.
Cheers.
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Thanks for posting the photo for me - hope someone recognises it and can give me info of some sort.
Hilary
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I think I have located where the shop once stood.
I have an ariel shot of Stirling taken circe 1946 and a building that looks like the one in your photo is located at the lower end of Baker St. slightly uphill and diagonal with Baker St's junction with Friar St.
I will try and post a link to the photo once I get it onto Photobucket.
Cheers.
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(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee209/38fergie/Roots%20Chat/BakerStreet.jpg)
As it is now.
Looking up Baker St. the junction with Friar St is on the right.
The shop would have stood where the red painted shopfront is on the mid left of the photo.
I recall as a boy in the 1940s there was a large dept store in the area to the extreme left of the photo and directly opposite the junction with Friar st, and it was called 'McCulloch & Youngs'
Just thought I'd throw that in.
Cheers.
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Great photo, thanks. Your memory throws another question into the works. By 1907 Robert Young was in Leeds opening another shop, then he moved to Normanton and settled there and raised his family. As far as we knew the Stirling shop was then nothing to do with him but if the name stayed perhaps other family members were involved. If so it would also explain why the son of a farmer took up a career in drapery.
Do you have access to any trade directories that would give the owner's name by ant chance?
Hilary
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Don't know if these direct liks will work but its worth a try
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee209/38fergie/Stirling%20Ariel%20Shots/02bArielPhotoofStirling900.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee209/38fergie/Stirling%20Ariel%20Shots/02bphotoofStirlingc-u.jpg
I don't have any access to trade directories. Perhaps another RootsChatter could help with that.
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The links worked brilliantly, thankyou. It certainly looks like the same building in the close up photo and I presume the big store was one of the two large buildings to the left of the one I'm interestsed in. I'm wondering now if he may have been in partnership with them and decided to branch out on his own. I wish I knew why the big leap to Yorkshire though. he kept a diary in the 1920s and 30s but there's nothing about his early life at all.
Still, it just makes the challenge more interesting doesn't it.
I'll post a new message about Trade Directories and see if anyone has one.
Thanks again for all your help, you've certainly moved me on a step or two, if I can do anything in return please let me know,
Hilary
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Glad to be of help Hilary.
If my aging memory serves me right, those building were demolished in the early 1950s. I'm sure there was lots of mention in the local newspapers about the demise of 'McCulloch & Young'.
Stirling Archives Dept could possibly assist you there. Maybe one of the newspapers carried a brief history of the company.
Cheers.
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Hilary.
I was speaking to a local historian yesterday and he reckoned that 'McCulloch & Young' was the original trading name of the shop but from shortly after its founding, the company had been run by the McCulloch family alone.
Just thought that might be of interest.
Cheers.
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Thanks, that agrees with another little snippet of information I have. After your help I e mailed the library in Stirling and they were very helpful and were able to tell me that Robert McCulloch and Robert Young set up the busness in 1893 but by 1899 Robert Young had "retired". My italics there because I suspect they parted for other unknown reasons as he was only in his 30s and went on to open a shop in Yorkshire in 1904. I am still intrigued as to why I can't find him anywhere for certain in the 1901 census and I'd love to know where he worked before they opened the Stirling shop. I'll keep chipping away and maybe all the little bits of information will add up to a full picture one day.
Thankyou again for continuing to keep me informed when you find something - much appreciated
Hilary
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Came across these two portions on an advert from 1948.
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee209/38fergie/Roots%20Chat/MY2.jpg)
The shop address is given as 'King St' but the shop was most definitely in 'Baker St'
As the shop was reasonably close to King St it could be that they were trying to raise their image by claiming to be in a shoping area considered to be more 'upmarket' than Baker St.
Cheers.
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Interesting!. Thanks, every little helps. Sorry I've taken a while to reply but I've been away for the week - back now and ready to get searching some more
Hilary
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Hi Fergie,
you don't happen to have these photos without the arrows do you.
I have the aerial one but the quality is not a good as your one.
I am particulary looking for any good quality photos of Baker Street, as I am to give a wee talk about it next year.
many thanks,
Stewart
Don't know if these direct liks will work but its worth a try
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee209/38fergie/Stirling%20Ariel%20Shots/02bArielPhotoofStirling900.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee209/38fergie/Stirling%20Ariel%20Shots/02bphotoofStirlingc-u.jpg
I don't have any access to trade directories. Perhaps another RootsChatter could help with that.
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Hello Srewart.
Could you PM me with an email address as I think I could send a better quality copy that way rather than me posting them here and then you having to download them.
do you want full page copies or selected detail scans. Or both if you wish. Just tell me what you want.
Cheers.
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Photos sent to your email address Stewart.
Cheers.
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Robert
Received the photos, exactly what I'm looking for, many thanks.
I'll email you with details.
Stewart
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Hilary
Robert Young (McCullough & Young) was my grandfather. My father (Robert Anderson Young 1910-2004) always told me that grandfather had started off with McCullough in Stirling but I'm fairly certain didn't know of any rift c.1899. Neither did he ever say anything about the "missing years " up to the time he arrived in Normanton c 1907/8. My father was the only boy in his family of 7. My aunts were Mary, Margaret, Nancy, Jean, Bessie and.... Cathy who married a Douglas (Duggie) Gunn.... !!
Hmmm.. I wonder !!
Regards
Robert
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Hello Robert, this is amazing. My husband, John, is Cathy's son and we were with Bessie on Friday last week. She is the only one of them still living and she is 94 now. She actually explained the rift in the partnership to us as being over a woman (what else could it have been except money?) Apparently Mr McCullough married the girl that Robert wanted and also wanted to bring her into the business so Robert decided to leave. Why Leeds, which was where he went to first we have no idea. He married Eva Ward in 1908 and started the shop in Normanton at about the same time, although I don't have a definite date for that.
I have been researching both our families for about a year now and have accumulated quite a bit of information, most of which is on Ancestry.com, are you doing the same or were you just browsing?
My e mail address is
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if you would like to get in touch off this site.
Looking forward to hearing from you
Hilary
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Isn't it great when things come together.. :)
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It is indeed, and a lot of that is thanks to you and your generosity - so thank you.
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Hilary
Quite incredible! John and I used to play as very small children in the long back garden at "The Laurels" ? I fear though that further family matters will be of little interest to other site visitors! I need one more post after this to qualify for personal messaging, then we can exchange email addresses. By the way, did you see a copy of the marriage certificate to Eva Ward? I thought that Mary arrived (1909?) before they were married.
Like you, I think that people who wrote about the shop in Stirling have been extremely helpful and most kind.
Robert
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Hi Robert, I don't have the marriage cert but the marriage is registered on the GRO for the Dec Quarter of 1908 in Hunslet, Leeds which is where they were living in the 1911 census. In that census he says that Mary is 1 and your dad is 9 months and that they have been married for 2 years. I have Mary's birth as Jun 4th 1909 but I'm not sure which of her birthdays that is. Years ago when my eldest daughter was a baby and I used to call in on her regularly at Church Lane she told me she had two birthdays - the one she'd always celebrated as her birthday and the one she found out about as an adult when she applied for a passport or something. so there was definitely a discrepancy of a few months but unless I send for the certs i won't know for sure.
I have already sent you a PM with my e mail address on so as soon as you can access it we can swap more details.
Would I be correct in assuming you're not based in England or are you a night owl - based on the times of your postings!
Hilary
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Not sure if you still check in here, but my great grandfather and grandfather made up the McCulloch part of the business.
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My knowledge of the business is limited. I understood McCulloch took over/bought out Young, but if there was a woman involved then probably I wouldn't be here to write this...?!
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It was interesting to see photos of the business. I believe it evolved into quite a large department store.
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Hi, I haven't checked in for ages but the site sent me a message. Good to hear from you. I don't know much about the McCullochs but you're definitely right about the shop going on to be a big store.
I had an e mail from Stirling Library where they have a booklet issued by the firm. It says that Robert McCulloch came from Galloway to work in a drapers shop. A few years later in 1893 he went into partnership with Robert Young and they started their own business. Six years later (1899) Robert Young retired from the business.
It uses the word "retired" but he was only a young man and came to England and started again.
McCulloch and Young had shops in King St, Baker St and Spittal St.
In 1897 Robert Young was living at 30 Nelson Place, Stirling and Robert McCulloch was at 12 Nelson Place.
At the time I was looking into this I did do some research into the McCulloch family, which I haven't kept unfortunately. I was looking for dates of his marriage to see if our Robert was jilted or was the not chosen one of the two of them,(which was what the family always said) but Robert McCulloch and his wife were married long before this time as far as I can recall.
Family stories have always said he left the partnership over a woman but you can never be sure about them, it could have been anything I suppose. I did suspect a less than honourable liaison between our Robert and Mr McCulloch's wife but who knows? It all seems to have worked out in the end anyway.
If you want to know anything about our Robert please ask and if you can add anything to my knowledge of their circumstances in Stirling I would be greatful,
Hilary
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Hi, I'm glad to see this thread has opened up again as I have a bit of knowledge regarding the McCulloch and Young shop.
Candlelight, you are correct, it was a very large department store.
Hilary, you note that they had shops in King Street, Baker Street and Spittal Street, in fact this was one large store that encompassed all these locations, but yes there was entrances to the store from all these addresses. In fact you could enter from Spittal Street and exit from Baker Street.
As the firm expanded, they bought the shops on either side and and extended through to them, making one large shop. The department store was the shape of a triangle, starting from behind the steeple in King Street extending up both Spittal Street and Baker Street.
I have a fairly extensive collection of photographs of Baker Street which I've managed to collect over the years, and I have added one showing what I mean by a collection of shops at the site.
This pic shows the three main fronts, at the top of King Street and 3 - 5 Baker Street, this is what the McCulloch and Young Department store actually looked like. I have other pics, and I think I just might have one looking at the back of the store, I see if I can locate that.
I can remember the shop quite vividly in the 50's, my mother worked as a cook there, and in fact it was just like a rabbitt warren inside.
Stewart
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Thanks for that Stewart, I'd just seen references to the street names without realising it was the one shop - down to not knowing the geography of Stirling I suppose.
Thanks also for the photo, it must have been quite impressive in its day,
Hilary
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Stirling76,do you have any old photos showing roughly where 32 or 35 Baker St. were.From a previous post I know from information you provided I had rellies at both,late 1800's/early 1900s.
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I found this flyer of McCulloch and Young and it shows just how large the department store really was. As I previously said, it extended up Spittal Street and from King Street to Baker Street. This shows the 'triangle' perfectly.
Seoras, I'll have a look, but I've got a funny feeling that 32 was Dalgleish Court, I'll check that up and see, as for 35, I lived at 23 and I think 35 might have been the close next to Nimmo's shop just down from Bank Street. I think I might have pics of both location, let me see what I turn up over the next couple of days.
Stewart
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Cheers Stirling,I have yet to follow my GG gran's brothers,it's possible some of their descendents stayed in Stirling.My last direct line there died in 1902 in Stirling,though I was born in Stirlingshire ;)
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And thanks again from me for another interesting picture,
Hilary
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It's really interesting to see the pictures. Thank you for posting them. Do you have any of the interior? I beleive it was quite fancy.
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My grandfather was also Robert Young, my mother his daughter Margaret. You and I met briefly at The Laurels years ago at a family gathering. If you are still researching family history we may have some information from our own research that is useful to you, if only as confirmatory of your own work.
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Very Interesting about the growth of McCullochs from a small drapers shop. Would be a great help if anyone out there can remember who the Company Secretary was around 1930 onwards? It might be a key to helping with our family story.