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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: maggiev on Thursday 15 July 10 03:16 BST (UK)
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Can anyone assist with a lookup of the marriage of Maria Catherine Royals and Norman Thomas in South Australia, and any children born to them. I imagine the dates would be post 1911, when Maria would have been 20.
Maria Catherine Royals, daughter of James John Royals and Catherine nee Hourihan was born in South Melbourne 8 Dec 1891, and was brought up in Glenelg South Australia.
Any further information would be most welcome.
Many thanks, Maggie
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Hi Maggie,
I can't see a marriage for Maria up to 1937.
There are marriages of 2 of Maria's sisters
Dorothy Matilda to Mervyn James HERBERT in 1911 at her father's residence and Mary Elizabeth to William TREVORROW in 1913 at Catholic Presbytery Glenelg.
Regards
Alison
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I can't help you with the marriage but you may like the memorial notice for her mother in 1915.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/096t/
Cando
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Many thanks for the lookup. Perhaps they married interstate- in Victoria or NSW. Maria is definitely listed as Mrs Norman Thomas in the 1930 obituary for her father James John Royals. Is anyone able to check this? Or Thomas births post 1915 in SA?
Regards,
Maggie
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No THOMAS births to 1928.
You may like search for her marriage in NSW, WA and Qld. They didn't marry in Victoria.
Cheers
Cando
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Thanks for your help Cando
Maggie
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Hi
Looking for information about Maria Catherine ROYALS.
Here parents were James John ROYALS and Catherine HOURIHAN.
She was baptised 13/12/1891 in SA and according to the baptism certificate born 8/12/1891. I can't find her birth certificate.
She apparently married Norman THOMAS but can't find any marriage certificate. The death notice for her father in the SA Advertiser says that they were living in Adelaide in 1930. I don't know if they were on an electoral role.
I also can't find a death certificate for either Maria or Norman.
I don't know if they had any children. I have been unable to find any under the name THOMAS with a maiden name of ROYALS.
Thanks
Steve
Moderator Comment: Threads merged
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Hi Steve,
Maria Kathleen ROYALS was born 8 Dec 1891 at New Glenalg dist Ade Symbol A 492 168 parents James John ROYALS and Catherine HOURIHAN
Cheers Kris :)
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Sorry Steve,
I do not see a marriage for Maria nor do I see any births to her before 1928. Also no sign of deaths in SA for a Maria and Norman THOMAS (or Maria ROYALS) to 1972.
SA Electoral Rolls would need to be searched at the library. There is no State wide indexing (you need to know the district to search)
Cheers Kris :)
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Mrs Norman THOMAS aged 24 departed Plymouth for Adelaide 3 Dec 1916 aboard the OSTERLEY Country of last permanent residence British Possessions intended permanent residence in Australia
Cheers Kris :)
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Thanks for your help everyone.
It seems strange that there is no other documentation about her especially a death or marriage certificate.
I might have to check with the church and see if they have any records of their marriage. Most of the family at that time got married at Glenelg.
Thanks
Steve
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I wonder where Maria was living prior to 1916 -
Country of last permanent residence British Possessions
Kris
Cando
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Hiyas,,
I cannot find a Maria ROYALS leaving Australia within the required dates,,,,BUT there are plenty of woman marrying a Norman THOMAS's in England that could be the one who arrived in Australia in 1916...
I can also not see a marriage of a Norman THOMAS to a Maria ROYALS in England...
Maybe they never married or had kids..
shacking up was pretty common..
Bored
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There does not appear to be a marriage in the UK however British Possessions indicates that this Mrs Norman Thomas's whose age is the same as Maria Catherine's, last country of permanent residence prior to departure to Adelaide, Australia from Plymouth, was not England.
Cando
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YEah Yeah,,,
Make it sound like it fits.....
Bored
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I wonder where Maria was living prior to 1916 - Country of last permanent residence British Possessions
Kris
Cando
There does not appear to be a marriage in the UK however British Possessions indicates that this Mrs Norman Thomas's whose age is the same as Maria Catherine's, last country of permanent residence prior to departure to Adelaide, Australia from Plymouth, was not England.
Cando
YEah Yeah,,,
Make it sound like it fits.....
Bored
Perhaps re-read my posts and perhaps familiarise yourself with the countries which were British Possessions in 1916...and there were many.
I doubt any of us try to Make it sound like it fits..
Cando
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Funny enough,,,
I just checked marriages,,,,,,,and none there...
Say what ya like,,but if you do not have the marriages or anything???
Lotsa MRS Norman Thomas in that time,,,,,,but none a Maria....
Maybe one of those Mrs Norman THOMAS came to aussie??
Bored
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Hi all,
May I intrude and gently suggest that perhaps the elusive marriage (THOMAS = ROYALS), occurred in one of those British Possessions ... I have no experience in searching through non UK or non Aust or non NZ databases.
I am sorry Steve and Maggie, but perhaps one of the more experienced RChatters may have some suggestions. :D
:) A list of British Possessions ;)
http://www.anglik.net/empire.htm
Cheers, JM
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Appreciate all your efforts on our behalf,
Maggie
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Hi Maggie and Steve,
I did think the passenger I noted arriving who had been residing somewhere in one of the British Possessions was likely your girl but it seems not.
I went through a heap of Electoral Rolls today. I focused on Adelaide as the obit says Meria was from Adelaide, and not a sign of her. I then tried the Glenelg area and found from the first I checked (well actually I worked backwards) I started with 1930's. I tried to go forward and not a sign of Maria THOMAS or Maria ROYALS anywhere I looked, but please note these things are not indexed. I got quite handy with finding the ROYALS in Glenelg
Starting with
1914 Bath Street New Glenelg
ROYALS James John - Bricklayer
ROYALS Catherine - Home Duties
ROYALS Egbert Leonard - Lab
ROYALS Mariea Kathleen - Home Duties
1915 Bath Street New Glenelg
ROYALS James John - Bricklayer
ROYALS Mariea Kathleen - Home Duties
1916/17/19/21/24/27/28/30 44 Bath Street New Glenelg
ROYALS James John - Fruiterer
ROYALS Mariea Kathleen - Home Duties
in 1921 = Henry Kennett - Railway Employee
couple of other entries I noticed for him
1930 19 Todd Street St Leonards
ROYALS Henry Kenneth - Employee SAR
ROYALS Ella Kathleen - Home Duties
1933 10 Marion Street Glenelg
ROYALS Henry Kenneth - Railway Employee
ROYALS Ella Kathleen - Home Duties
Sorry - could not find another entry for Maria (and BTW that was the way her name was entered in every entry "Mariea Kathleen". She appears to have resided with her father (unwed) until 1930.
Cheers Kris :)
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I have checked a resource that has a number of divisions of the 1939 Commonwealth Electoral roll for South Australia however according to the SLSA the State Electoral Rolls are incomplete from 1913 -1938 and incomplete for 1939.
There are three Norman THOMAS enrolments but no Mariea/Maria Kathleen.
Cando
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Thanks kris for putting in so much effort.
In 1914 it is interesting that Egbert was living at Glenelg. My information has him getting married in 1912 and living at Kent Town in 1914 15 and 16. His daughter Edna was born at Kent Town in 1912. He was living at the Glenelg address earlier in the century.
Kris, was Dorothy Matilda Herbert nee Royals living at Glenelg around 1914-1916 according to the electoral role?
There is some confusion with Maria's name. On the baptism register her name is spelt Maria Catherine Royals. The name Catherine obviously comes from her mother who has the same spelling. It seems strange that it is spelt differently on the electoral role.
So according to the electoral role Maria did not get married but lived at Glenelg during 1914 through to 1930. I wonder how accurate the dates are with the electoral role. Perhaps Maria got married very early in 1930 before her father died and therefore would have been Mrs Thomas according to the death notice of her father. Perhaps the electoral role could be a year or two out of date.
Henry Keneth Royals was 21 in 1921 so I suppose he enrolled to vote at this time. It's interesting that his wife Ella Kathleen Royals nee Gill has the same middle name as Maria Catherine (Kathleen) Royals
Kris, you said that the information is not indexed. What do yo mean by this? Were you only able to search the Glenelg area or does it include the whole of SA.? Can we conclude that Maria was not enrolled to vote anywhere in SA after 1930?
Thanks
Steve
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Hi Steve,
If you note the birth registration I supplied it is also for Maria Kathleen so it was her correct name. (people are not always baptised under their official registered names)
Unfortunately with Electoral Rolls one can never be sure. All we know is she was enrolled to vote at that address in 1930. No marriage could be found in SA. If she was married some time around 1930 I could not locate her after that time. The rolls to 1938 are only on fiche. after that book. With a lot of the early ones not all districts survive. I did not check every available district. I did ensure I checked Glenelg and most of the Adelaide district. Adelaide is missing in some of the early ones. I did check a few where it was available between 1930 and 1939. 1939 I was able to have a good look about for example but alas no Adelaide district available. I thought with the obit saying of Adelaide that that was the best one to check. Each District has a few subdistricts. Generally about 5 or so fiche per year. As I said I got to find Glenelg quite easily and from memory all years were available. I noted Henry Kenneth now a shunter and Ella were in 45 Long Street Queenstown by 1939. Other Royals also in that district but no sign of Maria/Mariea
I did not look for Dorothy Matilda HERBERT in those years. I can when next at library.
1939 she is at 135 Young St Parkside - Home Duties with Ilga Valerie - Stenographer
Cheers Kris :)
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Hi Steve,
1913 - Great Downing Street Brighton
HERBERT Mervyn James - Gardener
HERBERT Dorothy M - Home Duties
1915,1916,1917 - 44 Bath Street Glenelg
HERBERT Mervyn James - Gardener
HERBERT Dorothy M - Home Duties
Cheers Kris :)
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Thanks Kris.
I appreciate the effort you have put in.
Steve
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I am the grandson of Dorothy Matilda Royals and would be pleased to provide information about her.
Tony Herbert
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Hi Tony
Great to hear from you.
Dorothy is the sister of my great grandfather Egbert Leonard Royals.
I've sent you a private message with my email address. Contact me that way and we can exchange some information. I've uncovered a reasonable amount of information about the Royals family at this time period.
Thanks
Steve
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Dear Tony, We were in contact about a year or so ago and exchanged information when I was seeking information about the Royals family in particular Egbert. You sent me information on Dorothy then, which was very helpful. Subsequently Steve, who has responded to your post and I worked together on the family as we were both investigating Egbert. I'll leave it to Steve to fill you in.
Thank you for offering to help.
Regards,
Maggie