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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Larby on Thursday 15 July 10 22:50 BST (UK)
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I'm new to RootsChat and have already put this photo on the "Recognition" board, but now I have found the Armed Forces topics I am posting it again.
I think my grand uncle may be one of the soldiers in this picture. He was in France with the London Regiment until Jul 1917, when he returned to England for officer training at Oxford. After being commissioned he returned to France in December 1917 and was killed in action on 2 June 1918. Can anyone shed any light on the uniforms in the picture or even recognise the building - a long shot, I know.
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Door & window style looks more mainlaind Europe than England.
Pauline
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Hello Larby,
Have you got a name and pre-officer servicer number, battalion etc for him?
I notice there is a publishers ID on the bottom left of the postcard. Could you tell us who it is.
A high definition scan of a cap badge would help as well.
Phil
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Yes, I have his full service records from a visit to the National Archives. Will sort out the relevant information and post it soon and will also try to get a scan of the cap badge - one seems different from the others so will try to get both.
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Information as requested by Phil.
Name : Benjamin Downes
Prior to 1914 served 4 years with 18th Battalion County of London - London Irish Rifles
29 Aug 1914 re-enlisted in 15th County of London
Regimental number 7393 (but had previously been 2610 crossed out in several places and replaced by 7393
Transferred to 3-14th Battalion on 27 Mar 1916 "for the purpose of Imperial Service"
Joined 26 Trg. Reserve. Brigade on 17 Aug 1917 and 6 OCB Oxford on7 September 1917
Commissioned 18th Battalion 17 Dec 1917 Reg. No. 513346
Killed in action 2 Jun 1918 in Lavieville Sector near Amiens (recorded in War Diaries)
Buried in Montigny-sur-l'Hallue Communal Cemetery (a friend who lives in France is visiting it for me to lay a wooden poppy cross)
On 13 Jan 1920, his mother received £19 0s 0d in respect of his time served in the ranks to be shared by her and his 6 siblings
So, you see, I know all about him except what he looked like!
Am new to scanning, but will try to work out how to send closeup of cap badge and lapel badges. The Name of the photographic studio looks like Price and the figure 1817 is written beneath the left foot of the chap on the left - this can't be the date so could be a reference number.
Thanks for your interest.
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This may be too obvious, but all the soldiers appear to be officers. Close-ups would help in spotting rank and collar badges, too.
A
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Yes, they are all wearing Sam Brownes and I too think they are officers, which would place this photo after December 1918 if my relative is in it.
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Have played around with the photo, but cannot crack the technology of how to blow up the cap badge to a larger size. Will seek help on another message board, but not sure if I have the skill!
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Hello Larby,
According to his medal index card, 7393 and 513346 are his 14th London service numbers (pre & post 1917 re-numbering).
The 1817 on the photo is a photographers reference number. Can you see a location or full name for Price? Assuming that Price took the original photo, that will help with the location.
Probably the best place to look for a photo of Benjamin will be the local paper.
To get a decent blow up of the badge, scan the photo at a high definition (600 dpi?) and crop the section you want, so that the file size is within RCs limits.
I found this piece on 6 OTB:
http://archives.balliol.ox.ac.uk/Exhibitions/exhib17WW1album.asp
Phil
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Any idea what his pre-war occupation was?
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Balliol stuff is fascinating, Phil. A bit of it covers the time he was there and I will be studying it carefully for background information. Can't see any more of the photographer's name as it's just a little flash on the corner of the picture.
Will have a go at the scanning a bit later on. Thanks for all your help and interest.
In answer to Pete's question, according to his army attestation papers he was a teacher and gained his own certificate of eduction at Islington Training college.
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I'm a novice at scanning, but with help from other chat members have cracked it. Below is close up of one officer showing cap badge and lapels. Another shows another officer with just lapels. If I can't add two pictures, the second will be in a second post.
Any help on identification would be welcome as it could give me a clue as to which is my relative.
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The second pic looks like the Officer has shamrock in his lapel and a trefoil shaped collar dogs, suggesting an Irish Regiment and St Patricks day celebration, Lots of Irish Regiments wear shamrock on St Patrick's day, inded the Queen Mother used to present Shamrock to The Irish Guards on this day.
James
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The first pic also looks like shamrock on the lapel
James
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This would be right, because the man I think is in the picture was in the London Irish Rifles. As both have the shamrocks and they both have a slight family likeness, I may never know which is he. But it does confirm my suspicion that the complete picture of probably the officers of the battalion at their HQ in France between the end of December 1917 when he was commissioned and 2 June 1918 when he was killed.
I'll try a closer view of the cap badge and post it later.
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I think they must have been photographed on March 17th 1918 St Patricks day, usually the shamrock was fresh and I doubt it would be used a second day, I must admit this cap badge in the pic doesn't look like the cap badge of the LIR - Google Cap badge 18th battalion London Irish Rifles
Forester, Great web page on Balliol
James
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It's amazing I haven't noticed the live shamrock before. Many thanks.
Yes, I found the Balliol page great as well and hve still to study it in detail.