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Independent Islands => Alderney, Guernsey, Jersey, Sark => Topic started by: amazon510 on Thursday 15 July 10 03:02 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I am researching the name Goosney. Family tradition is that the family immigrated from the Channel Islands to Newfoundland, Canada. Problem is Goosney does not seem to be a traditional Channel Island name. I think it's probably a corruption of something else.
Based on my research they probably were involved in the migratory fishery in the late 18th century, and settled permanently in the first quarter of the 19th century, so they probably spoke Jerriais. Newfoundland was and is primarily English speaking (with west country and Irish accents), so lots of opportunity for mangling of the name.
My top two candidates for the original name are
Gosney - but this does not seem to be a Channel Island name. Or is it? Does anyone know?
Gasnier - a more typical Channel Island name which could possibly be mispronounced as Goosney. However initial research in the St. Ouen/St. Mary parishes of Jersey does not seem to link up with my Newfoundland records. There may be some families on Guernsey but I haven't been able to do much research. Has anyone conducted any research on Gasnier in Guernsey?
I'm open to comment as to which theory seems more plausible. Also, can anyone suggest any other Channel Island surname that might possibly be corrupted so that it is pronounced Goosney? (hard "G" - oo as in goose-"z"-nee).
Thanks,
Jennifer.
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Welcome to rootschat Jennifer. :)
I can't help with your specific enquiry but this site may help a little:
http://www.nationaltrustnames.org.uk/
I find it OK as a rough guide. There are no goosneys but there are gosneys.
I see you have already added your names to our surname interests table. You should try to contact the other gosney Channel Islands researcher but you need to make 3 posts before you can send Personal Messages.
Are you researching the name as a one name study or trying to find out the origins of your family with the surname Goosey?
Have you tried tracing family members by the usual means rather than basing your research on family heresay?
The rumour may be true of course but people moved around a lot and the surname may have originated from elsewhere before the Channel Islands. You really should trace backwards from facts you already know. The search may then lead you to the Channel Islands or not ;).
Good luck with it.
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Hi Jennifer
This web-site may help although it's in Canadian French!
http://tonylesauteur.com/arbre11.htm
It's a list drawn from many sources of CI people who emigrated to Gaspe in Newfoundland.
If you look under Godfray/Gunhall you will see that there is a S. Gooseney.
This won't give you any answers but at least it gives you a name.
Stewart
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Hi Stewart, thank you for this link! Lots of great information here, just wish my French was a little better.
I believe S. Goosney is Sarah Goosney married in 1862 to Philip Blampied originally of Jersey (of Shecatica at time of marriage). I had found their marriage record with some Quebec Lower North Shore parish records. This link provides confirmation, and also seems to imply that Philip later became the light keeper in Forteau. I'm not sure how Sarah relates to my line, but I will follow up on the Forteau lead.
How can I find out what the original sources are for these references? The note re Philip Blampied says "Marcel R. Garnier, L'Estuaire généalogique", but that doesn't ring any bells with me.
Minor detail - Gaspe is actually part of Quebec, not Newfoundland, but many Jersey firms operated in both areas as well as on the Labrador/Quebec North Shore.
Jennifer.
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Hi Ruskie, thank you for the welcome!
To answer your question, I am researching my family of Goosney, but it is such an unusual name I tend to record any Goosney records I come across in case they match up later (for example in my reply to Stewart). I have traced the family using all available Newfoundland records, and worked the line back to a marriage in 1827, in Newfoundland. The records in Newfoundland are a bit scanty in this period and earlier, but as far as I can tell there are no other Goosneys in the Newfoundland parish records prior to this date. I have found a handful of earlier court documents with very minimal detail. Bascially I'm stuck in the 1820s in Newfoundland and have been for years. I think this must be when the family settled in Newfoundland (as many families did around in the early 19th century), and to go back further I have to look for a link overseas.
When I look in the UK, I have the same experience as you - Gosneys, but no Goosneys. There are Goosneys in the rest of North America, but mainly in places where Newfoundlanders moved, and I know for sure that many of them link back to Newfoundland. Hence my theory that the name Goosney is a corruption of something else. This of course complicates my search.
I have the advantage that my grandfather was also interested in genealogy. Sadly he is dead now, but I have his research notes, and the stories he told me about his family. My grandfather was the one who told me the family was from the Channel Islands - he used to say "We weren't French and we weren't English and didn't give a d*mn about either", which I think was a quote from his own father, born 1878.
Other than my Grandfather, the only other Channel Island link is a letter dated 1759 regarding a Sam Gasnoy (? Not exactly sure of the spelling, the letter is very hard to read), who was convicted in absentia by a court in Newfoundland while he was in Jersey. Not sure if Sam is related to my line or not.
My grandfather's story does fit with local immigration patterns, as the area the Goosney's were from in Newfoundland was a known area of Channel Island activity and settlement. However an origin in Devon or Dorset would be just as likely - more likely really, except for the family lore.
Ayway, I'm really stuck so I'm hoping RootsChat will be able to give me some new clues.
Jennifer.
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Hi Jennifer
I'm afraid I can't help you with any details of the site. The address was given to me by the Societe Jersiaise as a source of information.
What I can do next week is visit the Societe library and see what I can find about the Goosney's.
Stewart
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Hi Stewart,
Thank you, that would be great! I did have a couple of hours of research conducted by the Channel Island Family History Society, which turned up the Gasniers I mentioned above, however no obvious link to my family. I'm looking for a marriage record of James and Sarah Goosney, circa 1830, and/or birth records for James and/or John Goosney who were probably born about 1800 +/- 10 years. James and John's father might be Robert.
Jennifer.
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A few ideas/suggestions from someone who knows nothing about Newfoundland or the Channel Islands ;):
Are there any searchable records of immigration?
Do birth, marriage or death records for family members give details about parentage or origins?
Do obituaries give any information?
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Hi Ruskie,
The BMD records are pretty scant, not much additional information for the time period I'm searching. There is a local collection of obituaries assembled from various early newspapers, but no Goosneys in it for the time I'm interested in. In any case, during this period I'm interested in (pre 1830), there were very few newspapers and only prominent citizens were likely to have an obituary published.
As for immigration records, people didn't really "immigrate" to Newfoundland in any formal sense until the late 19th or 20th century. Pre-1800, most people were involved one way or another in the migratory fishery. People would sign on as crew or servants with a merchant, come for the fishing season, or for two summers and winter, and then go back.
Various economic and political changes in the late 18th/early 19th century led to the gradual development of a domestic fishery and permanent settlement, but pinpointing when people arrived and left is difficult. People just showed up, or opted not to return. You only know they've decided to stay because they start appearing in Newfoundland parish records, or they purchase land, etc. Even once they were established here, they might still opt to go back to their point of origin to get married, for instance, especially since there weren't a lot of clergy in some areas. Getting a reference to where they came from is usually only a fluke.
I've waded through customs records, legal records, merchants ledgers and registry of crown land records, and found some detail on the people I'm interested in, but no firm leads.
Jennifer.
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Thanks for the insight Jennifer - it seems like you've been very thorough in your search - it must be very frustrating for you. :-\
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Hi again
I have gone though every Parish Register since (in some cases) the 1500's and I'm afraid there are no Gooseney's or Gosneys (or anything resembling that name).
As regards the surname there are numerous Gasnier baptisms. In St Mary there are 72, St Ouen 47 and St Peter 5. These go from 1600's to 1842. It's interesting to note that in St Ouen, they stop in 1768!! However, in St Helier there is one baptism in 16th Jul 1755 for a Marie Gasnier, daughter of Samuel and Jeanne Le Quesne.
I asked the librarian at the Societe if she had heard of any Gooseney's and she hadn't come across that name. She had heard of Gasniers (and Garnier's) and told me that someone in Guernsey had done a lot of work on this family. he would locate his email address if you should want it.
I looked in a booked (skimmed would be a better word) called The Quiet Adventurers in Canada by Marion Turk. It is quite a thick book and lists even more names of people who went to Canada around the time in question. Let me know what names you would like me to look for.
Stewart
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Hi Stewart,
Thank you for your very thorough search! I hope it was not too time consuming for you.
The birth record for Marie Gasnier is new to me and quite interesting. Per my other post, I have a record for a Samuel Gasnoy who was fined for missing court in 1755 - while he was in Jersey. Perhaps he stayed in Jersey that summer because his wife was expecting?
I believe I know the person in Guernsey who is also researching this name and have been in contact with him - I'll ask him what he knows about this birth record.
Re The Quiet Adventurers - I have reserved this book at my local university library and am waiting for it to be returned! Should be there soon, the librarian has recalled it for me.
Many thanks for your help, this could be a good lead.
Jennifer.
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Hi,
By chance I saw the mention of GOOSNEY/GOSNEY. I have done a little research on one family in Jersey.... funnily enough several generations down the track my eldest sister was a close friend of one of the descendants half way across the earth and living a few streets from each other! Small world!!!
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! How exciting! I have heard that there was a family of Gosneys in Jersey that ended up in ?New Zealand but have not been able to match up. What did you learn about the Jersey family?
thanks,
Jennifer.
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Jennifer,
1861 CENSUS
[1.?.12]
Boulivot Cottage, Vingtaine of Longueville, GROUVILLE
George GOSNEY - 32 - born England, Agricultural Labourer, Head, md
Mary GOSNEY - 37 - born France, Wife
George GOSNEY - 9 - born St Saviour, son
Mary Ann GOSNEY - 7 - born Grouville, daughter
Elizabeth GOSNEY - 5 - born St Saviour, daughter
Lydia GOSNEY - 2 - born St Saviour, daughter
1871 CENSUS
[3.37.20]
(no address), Vingtaine de la Petite Longueville, ST SAVIOUR
George GOSNEY - 44 - born England, Ag Lab, Head, md
Marie VASSELIN - 45 - born France, Charwoman, Wife
George GOSNEY - 19 - born St Saviour, Blacksmith, son, unmd
Elizabeth GOSNEY - 15 - born St Saviour, Dress Maker, daughter
Lydia GOSNEY - 13 - born Grouville, scholar, daughter
John GOSNEY - 8 -born Grouvillle, scholar, son
James GOSNEY - 6 - born Grouville, scholar, son
Philip GOSNEY - 2 - born Grouville, son
George GOSNEY and Maria (nee Vasselin),
Mary Ann, Elizabeth, Lydia, John, James, Philip
St Saviour
London via Plymouth to NZ
8 June 1874 Pt Chalmers and 20 June '74 Lyttelton where I assume they disembarked
Atrato
Settled in Timaru, some descendants later Dunedin
Murray Gosney - source
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nzbound/green_dolphin_st.htm
Hope this helps?
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It's possible that Gosney arrived in Guernsey from Crewkerne Somerset.
It is probably also associated with the Penney(Pinney) Family also of Crewkerne.
I have a William Gosney Pinney in my Tree, a Son of William Pinney and Sarah Gosney.
In Guernsey they appear to have been involved in the Quarrying Industry and many lived in the Paris Street, Glategney Parade area of St Johns Parish.
I hope this is of some use
Tony
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Thank you Pamhi, your census records are good to have - plus the confirmation of the New Zealand tie. I will save your information in case it matches up someday.
I am looking for a family that arrived in Newfoundland in the 1820s. That group of Gosneys is my best Channel Island connection, and yet it's 40 years later than the family I'm looking for. I only wish there were census records for a few decades earlier. Grrr.
Tony - I actually have come across a record of a Gosney from Crewkerne in my research. Alfred Gosney, of Crewkerne, married Sarah Hutchings of Chance Cove, Newfoundland, in 1868 in Newfoundland. I think he came over with the installation of the trans-Atlantic telegraph cable. He settled in Black River, Newfoundland and had a family here - occupation was "Telegraph Repairer". If it is of interest I can send you what I have on this group.
I don't think he's related to my Goosneys, at least not directly, although I've made notes of the family just in case they ever do turn out to be related. However it's entirely possible my Goosneys were also from Crewekerne, but came earlier. I think my grandfather believed the Black River Gosney's were distant relatives, but I'm not sure why.
Jennifer.
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Hi Jennifer,
Interesting - just checked Jersey 1851 Census and there is only one 12yr old GOSNEY listed but 1871 has about 26!
The older ones/males appear to have come from England presumably some time after early 1851.
Maybe your line is NOT GOSNEY at all but, perhaps something like GASNIER?
Pam
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Hi Pam,
Yes, that is my fear with the Gosneys and the Channel Islands. That 1851 connection seems like the earliest one. Now, perhaps there was an ongoing connection between the Gosneys and the Channel Islands that extended to before 1851. After all, how did a 12 year old end up in the Channel Islands without his parents? Orphaned? Maternal link? Apprenticed? Or maybe the rest of the family had all departed for Newfoundland and hence weren't in the 1851 census. Tough to figure out really. What I really need is a census from 1800 or 1810, but I don't think one exists. Still, the Gosney/Goosney link seems somewhat unlikely, so either the Goosneys weren't CI, or the name wasn't originally Gosney.
Gasnier was my next guess, but a little research in that direction didn't turn up anything either.
I've always guessed the family was from Jersey, since more Jerseymen settled in Newfoundland. Recently I've been in contact with a distant relative who says the tradition in her branch is that the family was from Guernsey. I'm almost wondering if the original settlers in Newfoundland just told people they were from Guernsey and it got corrupted to Goosney. I think the English government started cracking down on smugglers in the early 19th century, so maybe they were on the run and didn't want anyone to know their real surname. If this is what happened, the original surname could have been anything at all and I guess I'll never find out.
One of my concerns though is that the names James and Isaac are very common in the Goosney family, right from the first generation, but they don't seem to be French names, which is what one would expect. That points to more of an English origin.
Deep sigh. I'm stumped, and I'm starting to think I'll have to live with the mystery.
Jennifer.
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Hi Jennifer
I know I've looked for you before and I always keep an eye open for the name. Have you seen there is a Gooseney mentioned on http://tonylesauteur.com/arbre11.htm It doesn't tell you a lot but I suppose it all helps.
Also there are 3 books about people who left the CI to go to Newfoundland called The Quiet Adventurers in Canada' by Marion Turk. You can search this on Googlebooks but I can't see anything following a quick search.
Sorry if I've mentioned this before.
Stewart
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Hi Stewart,
Thanks for the link - I think I have seen it before but forgot to bookmark it. I've got it now - very useful. There are a small number of Goosneys on the Quebec Lower North Shore, and S. Gooseney married to P. Blampied was one of them. The first Goosneys in Newfoundland were James and John, who were likely brothers, and Susan is I think probably John's daughter - his first wife was Susannah Jones, and although I don't have birth record for Susan, it would make sense that she would be named after her mother.
I have read The Quiet Adventurers, very useful book, I keep meaning to buy my own copy. One thing that is evident from it is how much the CI names were corrupted in Newfoundland. For example, Poingdestre became Puddester.
Thanks again for the input.
Jennifer.
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Hi Jennifer,
I should have mentioned I had checked both Marion Turk's books as mentioned by Stewart. There are no GOOSNEYS, GOSNEYs.... lots of GOSSELINS.... I wonder?
Sorry cannot be much more help.
Good luck...