RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: Deb D on Thursday 15 July 10 02:12 BST (UK)
-
I hope I'm not being presumptuous, but ... if anyone happens to be wandering churchyards in Sussex, particularly near Catsfield, Hollington, Dallington, Waldron or Worthing, ... with camera in hand, ...
Would it be possible, should you find any Delves graves, that you might snap a pic or two for me, please, and send me a message, or a PM?
Huuuuuuuuuge thanks in anticipation; - I'm in Australia, and unlikely to be able to visit any of these places for myself.
Cheers
Deb
-
Hi Deb,
Sorry I can't help with photos (I'm also here in Oz), but I'm also researching Delves in that area. Would love to compare notes.
Marion
-
Hi Marion, good to hear from you!
My OH's family are descended from a John Delves, b. 1819, who sailed out here on the "James Pattison" in 1839/40. He came from Sussex, and I've found a number of people named Delves in the county ... including the vicar who married the parents of John Delves' two wives!
It might be better if we could carry on talking by personal message ("PM"), but you'll need to post another two "public" type messages before the PM facility will work for you.
Cheers
Deb
-
Good to hear from you, Deb. As you've noticed, I'm new to Rootschat. My grandfather, Harold Delves, was born in London. So far, with some help from another cousin, I've got back to Thomas Delves, bc 1725 in Sussex, who married Hannah Parker in Lewes in 1746. I'm doing a mini one-name study, trying to connect all the Sussex, Surrey, Kent & London Delves. Big job, but I'm really enjoying it! As your John left England before 1841, I haven't yet got him listed.
I'll see what else I can post, so that I can qualify for the PMs.
-
:D
Just needs a "Hello" or "Back soon with some more info"
Cheers
Deb
-
Quick hello, then. I have to get some other work done at the moment. I'll be back on later this afternoon.
-
Hi
On my way to Battle earlier I stopped off at Waldron & Dallington and had a wander round the churchyards.
Dallington is small and most of the headstones are very old and illegible, of those that were legible I found no Delves.
Waldron is bigger but some of it has been left to overgrow and is now a "conservation area"! I did however find a recent headstone there bearing the name Richard Harvey Delves, who was born in 1934 and died in 2000 - don't know if that helps any?
Bev
-
Hi Bev, and many thanks for letting us know about this one. Not sure as yet how he might be connected - Marion and I might have to confer, I think. Will post here again, should we find him in either of our trees :)
Cheers
Deb
-
Hi Deb,
According to the SFHS records there were 7 burials at Catsfield :-
Elizabeth Ann Delves. 2.2.1819. daughter of Revd Wm Delves. 7 months old.
Frederick Delves. 20.6.1819. son of Revd Wm Delves. 2 years 6 months old.
James Delves. 6.5.1799.
Edward Delves/ 21.3.1798.
William Delves. 26.5.1794.
Mary Delves.4.7.1671.
William Delves. 16.5.1823. age 36.
Don't know if any of these are your ancestors but I could go to Catsfield for you if they are.
Best wishes HL
-
Hi HL,
Many thanks for that - I have a pic, already (thanks to another RC-er) of the stone over Rev. William Delves' grave, inside the church at Catsfield ... but wasn't aware that there were other burials there.
I've been trying to figure out whether he was married twice ... there are some records indicating his first wife was Elizabeth, but I have yet to find out where they married, and when she died. William married again 16/5/1820 to Mary Susan Bedingfield, and they had a daughter, Mary, in 1822 ... but then William died on the 4/5/1823. It looks like those names might include William's siblings &/or parents, which is great, because I don't have them as yet ...
I do, however, have a John Delves, b. 1819 and baptised in Wartling, son of John Delves Sr and his wife Mary/May Thorpe, ... I'd love to find the connection between John and Rev. William - apart from the coincidence that Rev. William married the parents of the girls who would become John's future two wives!
-
Hi Deb,
I will go to Catsfield and see if there are any graves for the other Delves I mentioned.
However, our weather is very wet, grey and windy, so I'll leave it till things improve. :)
I'll get back to you with any pictures later.
Meanwhile I have some more records which you may not have found (or which may not be relevant)
Catsfield baptisms:-
Frederick Delves, 29.1.1817. son of Rev.William and Elizabeth Delves.
Elizabeth Delves, 23.7.1818. daughter of Rev.William and Elizabeth Delves.
Crowhurst baptisms:-
William Delves,20.6.1815. son of William(Clergyman) and Elizabeth Delves.
Then there are some which may be for William Snr and his siblings - also at Crowhurst.
William Delves, born 25.4.1788, baptised 3.6.1788. son of Rev William and Ann Delves.
John Delves, 27.9.1789, twin son of Rev William and Ann Delves.
James Delves,27.9.1789, twin son of Rev William and Ann Delves.
Ann Delves, born27.3.1791,baptised 28.4.1791.daughter of Rev William and Ann Delves.
This couple married at Sedlescombe on 15.8.1786. The record says, William Delves, of Crowhurst and Ann Bishop, married by licence.
I can find no definite record of William's first marriage to Elizabeth, or her death, but he does seem to have been married twice - Elizabeth and Mary Susan Bedingfield.
There is a vague possibilty, as I found reference to a marriage licence dated 7.8.1813 between William Delves and Elizabeth Smith.
I don't know where this marriage was though (other than England!!) at least Crowhurst, Catsfield and Sedlescombe are all close to each other.
Perhaps if you find this marriage record you would be interested in sending for a copy of the licence, which may help you.
Best wishes HL
-
Hi Deb,
I know this is supposed to be a photo request question (!) and of course I will take picture at Catsfield when I can get there.........but hoping this is of some help to you I have just found..............
Burials at Crowhurst:-
James Delves, 6.10.1789. infant.
John Delves, 6.10.1789. infant.
Sadly, these must be the twin sons I mentioned in my previous post.
Best wishes HL
-
Many many thanks, HL - I'd shoved OH's Delves lot onto the backburner, a bit, ... but this additional info has rekindled the fire under it :D
Mazzak/Marion, are you still following?
Cheers
Deb
-
Glad the info helped a little Deb.
Will send you a PM when I have the photos.
Best wishes HL.
-
Thanks heaps HL :D
-
Hi there,
I live in Worthing and have seen your post. What denomination would your Delves be? Have you identified any particular area in Worthing your family may have lived as this would hel;p narrow down the search.. I would be willing to have a look!
-
Hi there, and thanks for the offer!
There appears to have been some chopping-and-changing of denominations with this family. I think they started off as C of E, and certainly Rev. William of St Laurence's in Catsfield was C of E, ... but there may have been a mass Methodist re-baptism or two, shortly before John Delves and the Crouch family into which he later married (twice!) sailed for the Antipodes. (* Have "filed" many of my notes in a very heavy box on top of a wardrobe! ::) ... so can't access them right at the moment ... :-[ *)
Will have to line up OH to get the box down! - But anything that might link Rev. William with John Delves, b. 1819 to John Delves and his wife Mary/May Thorpe, (baptised in Wartling?) ... would be appreciated
Cheers
Deb
-
Delves in Frant: There are lots of them as all teh Tunbridge Wells Delves had to be buried somewhere and it usually was in Frant until a cemetery got opened in Trinity church, TWells in 1824 and then in Woodbury Park T Wells in 1849.
There is a Rev William Delves who is vicar of Frant between 1741 and 1783 : his grave inscription reads William Delves Rev d 12 apr 1784 age 66 also memorial on west wall of church ‘ for 42 years vicar of this parish’. This one in Frant has 3 children in Frant. and seems to live in Frant all his life, He married Elizabeth Newington in 1758 in Frant. At the moment I have not idea who William Delves 1718-1784 is, is he brother to Richard Delves of Tunbridge Wells who died in 1779 and was buried in Frant?
There is also a grave inscription for Rev William Delves d 1823 no age given. I wonder if this is the Rev William Delves in Crowhurst? As a Rev William Delves appears in Battle as a curate and in Crowhurst as a clerk. And in Battle Richard Delves of Tunbridge also appears.... this could be from the same links. There is also a Rev william Delves who gets an MA in OXford in 1817. Are these different William Delves? Or the same person who died 1823?
In Vol VII (July-oct 1823) The Investigator (or, Quarterly magazine) the death of Rev william Delves of Catsfield age 36 is reported , allegedly immediately after the service he led. So maybe his interrement was in Frant because of familial links? But if 36 is his age, this does not correspond to some entries for Rev William Delves earlier in 1790 ish.... or is it his father (?) William who is married to Ann nee Bishop? And is William 1718-1784 his grandfather?
Susan
-
Delves:
There are some who start off in Hailsham such as Thomas Delves abt 1725 who married Hannah Parker, there are some who seem to start in Tunbridge Wells such as Richard Delves abt 1720 who married Dorothea Mercer. There is a whole bunch in Waldron and still there to this date in a farm which is still working dairy farm to my knowledge. John Delves abt 1725 who married Susannah Ranger. So far I have not linked the three family groups that I know of.
Susan
-
I have found another wedding for a Rev William Delves to Miss Swayne of father in Tunbridge Wells, in 21 apr 1795 . So who is this? It seems lots of William Delves become clergymen....
Susan
-
Hi again, Susan,
Yes, there seem to be Williams all over the place, with little to show who's who! I'll have to put an interim tree together, I think, to try to make sense of it all.
They might all turn out to be cousins of "our" John, in which case I'll be trying to look farther back again, won't I? ::) Meanwhile, I'd be curious to hear more about the ones who are "still there to this date" in Waldron!
Thanks again for your help :)
Cheers
Deb
-
Hi Deb,
I did try and contact them and hoped that the older ones who may be more interested in family history would get back to me, but so far they have not. But they do still farm dairy cows there as far as I know. I think they have been in that area for at least since 1750's.
William Delves 1718-1784 was given 'dispensation' for the rectory and to be vicar of both Frant and Waldron. So there may even be a connection there, which I expect there is as my various trees all get to 1725 and then I am stuck.
Susan
-
I think William Delves 1718-1784 who married Elizabeth Newington is father to William Delves 1758 - 1809 who married Ann Bishop, and had William Delves 1788-1823. So three generations of Vicars.
Susan
-
Yep, that's how I worked it out, too :)
-
And I have now proven that Thomas Delves 1691 who married Elizabeth Bridger is father to William in Benenden 1716, as well as two other siblings (see IGI) and then few siblings in Waldron which then ties in all my trees together. (Thomas, David, John, Elizabeth....) So it all fits. The oxford alummni and susses society of archealogy mentions that William 1716 matriculated in oxford , BA and then MA, and mentions his father Thomas of Benenden.
Great to have tied in all the branches together
-
:o
Wooooooohooooooooooo! Well done you !! They must all be cousins, I think - and I'm still stuck on that reference to a Miss Swayne ??? Rev. William of Catsfield would have only been a child at that stage ... and whilst it's not totally beyond the pale, could his father have remarried ???
Okay, I'm getting myself confused again ... ! ::)
-
May well be the middle William as he moves to Ahsburham,. and I think the marriage is there?
Susan
-
Hello :)
Found the following on the Sussex Marriage Index.
Married at Tonbridge,Kent
William Delves,Rev from Ashburnburn ,Sussex & Mary Swayne (OTP) (Lic)
Hope this helps
omega
-
Damm,forgot the date,another Senior Moment ::)
21 April 1795
omega
-
Back again
Buried at Ashburnham,
Mary Delves,aged 39,2 July 1800,Wife of Rev William
Kind regards
omega
-
Thanks everyone, between us all we are doing well. I normally also post transcriptions I have made of Parish records on the weald web site.
-
Thanks heaps, Susan and omega1!
Yes, seems to me as if it was the father (the "middle" one) of the William at Catsfield who married Miss Swayne, ... has anyone found a death for Ann Delves nee Bishop?
Cheers
Deb
ps they didn't seem to have a lot of luck with their wives, did they!?
-
Good evening all,
To save a bit of time always look in the church porch first, many churches have a plan of the grave yard and all in it. If not there then it will be somewhere inside the church so you will probably need to be let in. It's much easier than trying to read all the headstones especially when it's wet.
John915
-
"How embarrassment" (sic).
I've managed to get myself thoroughly sidetracked, haven't I? ;D
All these Revs. William have led me a merry dance, and I'd almost forgotten I was looking for burials or headstones of John Delves and his wife May/Mary nee Thorpe, and their family, ... in mad hopes of finding out more about John's parentage ... ::)
-
Good evening all,
To save a bit of time always look in the church porch first, many churches have a plan of the grave yard and all in it. If not there then it will be somewhere inside the church so you will probably need to be let in. It's much easier than trying to read all the headstones especially when it's wet.
John915
Thanks for that tip John - I didn't know that.
Hi Deb, having been involved in this thread earlier, I've actually now lost the plot with them all ::)
but....... there is a burial (hope it's the right one)
Ann Delves 9.4.1791. St Alban. Frant.
wife of W Delves of Crowhurst.
We were looking in Crowhurst and Catsfield and although Frant is a new area for them its not that far away, so they must have moved.
Best wishes HL
-
Grandfather William Delves 1718-1784 is vicar of Frant and Waldron, he was born in Benenden but his father Thomas Delves moved from Benenden to Waldron and had more children there. So the family links in there. Many graves for Delves there and memorial in church for William Delves 1718-1784 as he was the vicar there for 42 years.
There are delves gravestones on the left wall as you get into church yard from the road. The pictures are on ancestry.co.uk on my tree. But not all very clear. But all inscriptions have been written up on book in church. I have copied all Delves and used them for my tree.
some of teh brothers of William 1718-1784 and their family are also buried in Frant. As is William of Catsfield according to inscription, unless it is just a memorial on a grave. (there is little information for him apart from Rev William Delves d 1823.
Susan
-
This is great - the Williams are starting to make more sense to me, now! Susan, that precis clears up what had become, for me (!) quite muddy waters - thanks for that.
HL, finding Ann's burial is a masterstroke! Thank you!
My OH is quite bemused, now; - I've scolded him for having so many relatives with so little imagination where their children's names were concerned, ... and for their predilection for Church life. Especially since, having been CofE for so many generations, "our" John's son (also John) seems to have switched allegiances, and become a lay preacher for the Baptist church, once he got to Australia.
Deb
-
Hi Deb,
Can you run by who this John Delves is 1819 that is your ancestor?
Does his marriage certificate state his father's name?
Who are the witnesses to the wedding? That may give clues.
Was he married in the UK or in Australia?
Susan
-
John Delves b. Wartling (we think) in 1819, was the son of John Delves and his wife May/Mary Thorpe (shown on immigration papers 1839/40, mother's surname discovered by another Delves cousin). He married twice in Australia; first to Caroline Crouch, in 1840 (had a son named - oh dear! - William), and when Caroline died inconveniently soon thereafter, he married her sister Charlotte, and had another 11 children. The Crouch family had emigrated aboard the same ship as John, the "James Pattison", and settled in the same area of central-coast NSW.
I'm a little ashamed to admit that up until now I've been relying on family sources (although their information's been proven reliable in the past), so I haven't gotten around to buying copies of John's marriage certificates. Probably should extract the digit, and do that! :-[
-
Certificates in the uk give you quite a wealth of information. Such as what job they did and also if father is deceased (so you could then check this is correct father as names are all similar) also the witnesses may give you ideas on who else was there and it lucky it may be a relative.
That is how I have found names of sisters/women who were married and I was not sure who they married.
There are lots of Delves in Wartling. So far I have none in my tree. So maybe Thomas Delves (1691)' father or his siblings were from there. I see that others on ancestry have got a parent for him, but as I have no proof, I have as yet to check on these. And therefore I have not entered them on my tree.
Susan
-
Ooooops, wrong denomination - John 1819 became a lay preacher for the Methodists, not the Baptists :-[
The Crouch family, having been CofE, changed their religion, and had all their children re-baptised as Methodists in Worthing, shortly before they emigrated. I can only assume John had an epiphany that led him to their religion?
-
Hello Deb
Not sure if you have this.
Baptised at Wartling,John Delves,29 Mar 1819,son of John & Mary.
John`s occupation at the time,Labourer in Husbandry.
omega
-
Ouch, just tried to get the very heavy box off the top of the wardrobe, ... landed on my head ::)
Thanks, omega - just found that :-\
-
Is this any good to you ?
Buried at Ashburnham 2 Nov 1809,aged 51,William Delves,Rev of the
parish.
omega :)
PS,still looking for John senior`s baptisum
pps,hope your head is OK
-
Every little bit helps, omega - ta muchly. And yep, the head's okay, thanks. Said very heavy box only had a couple of inches to fall ;D
-
Will keep digging :)
-
Hello Deb
Not sure if you have this.
Baptised at Wartling,John Delves,29 Mar 1819,son of John & Mary.
John`s occupation at the time,Labourer in Husbandry.
omega
Hi,
I've found the marriage for this John and Mary.....
John Delves and Mary Thorpe married at Wartling on 31 Mar 1802.
Their other children baptised at Wartling are Harry 17 Sep 1809 and Mary Ann 9 July 1815.
There are doubtless more but that was just the result of a very quick look at the records.
Best wishes HL
-
Thanks, HL.
I also have Elizabeth bapt. 11/11/1804, Louisa bapt. 21/12/1806 ... and Jane, bapt. 28/5/1822, all Wartling. These names are from that family source, who has the documentary evidence - I'm 99% sure I've filed copies, but haven't managed to find them again yet (big heavy box file; everything's got muddled, now!).
Deb
-
Good evening all,
It's strange how paths cross sometimes. I put up a post with a tip to find graves and then find that your ancestor/s probably married, baptised and buried some of mine. I'm from the Fuller line and there are so many in Waldron churchyard that it's known as Fullers earth.
John915
-
:o
-
Hello everyone - new to the site so forgive me for butting in, but I was researching the Delves when I came across your chat and it sent shivers up my spine when I realised I am related to the same tree, through Frances Delves b 1786, daughter of John Delves b 1754.
I learned of my connection through this fantastic tree which goes all the way back to Thomas Delves, b1590! Of particular note are Thomas Delves b1612 (Mayor and Baron of Dover) and his brother Nicholas, MP
Hope its of great use to you as it was to me
http://www.theweald.org/N10.asp?NId=40030024
-
Thanks Andy
Theweald.org is run by someone who collect other people's data transcriptions. For example I send my transcriptions too.
A very useful website , like IGI but like IGI depends on us transcribers not making mistakes and is selective, ie only some transcriptions not systematic parishes.
Good luck
Susan
-
Thanks Susan - that website has really helped me put some meat on the bones and I've already been contacted by a distant relative, so I hope something comes of that too. I'd love to go back beyond Thomas b1590...one day!
Andy
-
Good evening,
Thought this site might be of use but most of them are fairly recent and not from the specified area. There is one in Oz though; http://www.gravestonephotos.com/public/search.php
Click on the name for picture of gravestone.
John915
Sorry, The link only takes you to the home page and not direct to Delves. Just type Delves in the surname box and it will give you the list of all known on the site. You could also try spelling derivitives. John
-
Hi HL,
Many thanks for that - I have a pic, already (thanks to another RC-er) of the stone over Rev. William Delves' grave, inside the church at Catsfield ... but wasn't aware that there were other burials there.
I've been trying to figure out whether he was married twice ... there are some records indicating his first wife was Elizabeth, but I have yet to find out where they married, and when she died. William married again 16/5/1820 to Mary Susan Bedingfield, and they had a daughter, Mary, in 1822 ... but then William died on the 4/5/1823. It looks like those names might include William's siblings &/or parents, which is great, because I don't have them as yet ...
I do, however, have a John Delves, b. 1819 and baptised in Wartling, son of John Delves Sr and his wife Mary/May Thorpe, ... I'd love to find the connection between John and Rev. William - apart from the coincidence that Rev. William married the parents of the girls who would become John's future two wives!
HI Deb, I just came upon this thread and was wondering if you could send me a copy of the picture of the headstone for the William DELVES (of Catsfield) who died in 1823. I am researching his 2nd wife Mary Susan BEDNGFIELD as well. Any info you can share would be most appreciated.