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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Selina on Wednesday 14 July 10 22:27 BST (UK)
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I have found a relative on the Royal Marine Medal Roll. He was entitled to the Victory and British War Medals but under 'How issed or disposed of' it has F which apparently stands for forfeited.
Would they have been forfeited by choice or through some misdeamour?
Under remarks it has R - this seems to stand for Run and the word Run also appears on his service records, although if it means he absconded at one point he obviously returned. He was demoblised in 1919.
Does anyone know if forfeited medals could now be claimed by his grandson?
Thanks,
Selina
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I have seen records where people lose their medals through misdemeanour and then receive them later, but this is the first time I have heard of descendants applying for them.
Best approach would be to write and ask them - he must have absconded after the war finished to be eligible for the Victory medal - if he had received them they couldnt take them back!
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Hi Pete,
Thanks for the reply.
Good point about date of absconding. Looking at record I see that 'Run' (in the 'Cause for Discharge from Ship' column relates to January 1919, in the 'Character' column next to that is V.G.
In the 'Cause for Discharge' column for the next period of service is written W.T. and I don't know what that stands for.
Selina
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I Have a similar question regarding RM medals. My great Uncle was awarded three medals, but we only have Victory & British War Medals which were sent to Mother. The star medal has a question mark against it.. Details below....any idea why the star medal was not sent to mother with the other two.
First name(s): Joseph
Last name: CARSON
Number: PLY/15963
Rank: Private
Awards:
Medals & clasps earned: 1914-15 Star, Victory & British War Medals
How issued or disposed of: Victory & British War Medals to Mother, 1914-15 Star issued?
Service branch: Royal Marine Light Infantry
Unit: 2nd Royal Marine Battalion
Date of death: 13 Nov 1916
Cause of death: Killed in action
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Stars were issued before the British war and Victory Medals...the latter usually went out as a "pair" Have you got his Service Record off the NA site?
Ady
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Hi
I am not sure of the exact rules in 1919 but I ran the RN and RM absentee and deserters section as a Naval Regulator (policeman) in the early 1990's. A man would be marked "run" on his 7th day of being absent, he would then be discharged from his ship or shore establishment and drafted (posted) to HMS Nelson in Portsmouth. Obviously if he had absconded only his paperwork and kit would reach me. He then remained marked as run and warrants of arrest issued to all relevant police forces until recovered.
Regards
Smokey
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Hi Smoky,
Thanks for that information, it is very interesting and helpful and adds to the picture.
Selina
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Thanks Ady,
Yes I do have his service record from NA....will that help understanding in this matter. ?
Mike
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Does it mention anything on the Record reference medals it may just give entitlement?
Did you get the Medal Roll info from Find My Past? If so its possible the Star was never issued....the RN Div casualty index on ancestry states Star,Victory and British WM issued to mother in Donegal however if the ADM 171 has a question mark it may never have been issued?
There may also be records for him at the Fleet Air Arm Museum.
Ady
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The Royal Marines Museum in Eastney may be of some help.
Regards
Smokey
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Hi Ady,
On his service record it mentions one G C medal, issued in Jan 1915. I assume this is the star medal, and then he died in 1916, so the other two were sent to his mother. I have been in contact with the FAAM, and I am in the process of getting his attestation pack, which should hopefully uncover me information.
Thanks,
Mike
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Ady,
I did get the Navy Medal roll from find my past, and it is the transcript of ADM 171 that has the question mark against the star medal. at the bottom of the record the following comment is list :
The author has added extra information to many of the fields in the transcripts of the records.
This means that, unusually, you are likely to find more detail on the transcript than the original image
On the original ADM 171, the ST is listed above the British & Victory
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Hi Selina
You can no longer claim WW1 medals (or any medals from before 1920). However in his case it is almost certain that he received his medals. If he was discharged in 1919 he would returned from desertion, been punished, but then treated likely everyone else.
Even if a man deserted permanently he would have been struck off, but there was an amnesty during the 1920s and large numbers were issued then. The army medal office were very particular about recording medals being returned or re-issued. They were sent out by registered post. Any that were returned because the owners could not be traced, were kept for 10 years and then recycled. I don't know for sure, but I expect the navy had similar rules. As suggested the Royal Marine Museum should be able to tell you.
Hi Mike
Are you sure it says GC medal? GC is the abbreviation for good conduct. Called a GC badge, they were actually an inverted stripe worn on the left cuff. Each GC badges was worth 1d a day extra pay.
The 1914 Star was only issued to the RN/RM if they served ashore in France up to 22 November 1914. The majority of the RN/RM etc were only entitled to the 1914-1915 Star, which was authorised in 1918
Here is a useful link from the NA - http://193.132.104.74/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=37&j=1
Ken
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Thanks Ken....I believe you must be correct....perhaps it is a good conduct medal. attached is a portion of the service record I refer too.
Regards,
Mike
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Thank you for the Museum suggestion Smokey, well worth looking into.
km1971
Thanks for all that, it makes things very clear and also makes sense of entries on his service record regarding the number of days he forfeited towards service and badges etc.
He was 20 days 'Run' then there is a gap in the dates but when you count the days in that gap they match the 108 he was 'In(? not sure of the word In) desertion. This is immediately followed by 38 days WT and I now wonder if this was 'Waiting Trial'?. Immediately followed by 42 days Detention. A month later he was demobilised.
Very many thanks for replies.
Selina