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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Monaghan => Topic started by: Ferrington on Monday 12 July 10 10:40 BST (UK)
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I am interested in the records of the Castleblayney, Carrickmacross, Clones and Monaghan workhouses.
In July 1848 my gg grandmother, Mary Martin, (aged 14) was a famine orphan residing in a workhouse. She was selected to travel to South Australia on the ship Roman Emperor which departed from Plymouth on 27 July 1848.
The girls on the Roman Emperor were from a number of Workhouses, including these 4 in Co Monaghan.
I am trying to find out if documents exist that might identify the girls selected for the scheme.
In particular, I am looking for :
1. indoor admissions and discharge register of each Workhouse to see if a group of young women left the Workhouse in July 1848;
2. Minute Books of each Workhouse recording the names of the girls assisted to emigrate.
Are any of these records available on line? Or is there any sort of look up service?
Thank you for your assistance.
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Hi,
This site could help.
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/
Sharon
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Thanks Sharon, I had a look at this site, and there is certainly a lot of really useful information there. But I couldn't find any link to the sort of source documents that I think I need.
I am not even sure where the records I am looking for would be - if they would be centralised or still in the individual towns, or of course if they exist.
It's hard doing this by long distance!
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If you go to the Workhouse site given about and follow the links to Workhouse Locations > Irish > Co. Monaghan and then the individual workhouses you will see lots of information, including Records (in the case of Clones- Monaghan County Library).
The Workhouse link is also in MONAGHAN RESOURCES, LINKS, ETC. at the top of this board.
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Hi,
In the case of Limavady workhouse, Co. Londonderry, I found the lists of the girls from there who were also on board the Roman Emperor in the Master's Jurnal and in the Minutes of the Guardians. In my case these records were held in the Public Record Office N. Ireland.
Regards
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Kingskerswell, are you able to tell me if Mary Martin is on that list? Wouldn't that make my life easier!
Regarding the Workhouse website, there is certainly lots of fascinating information about the Workhouses and their establishment (and some spooky photos!), but the section on Records refers me to the Monaghan County Library, and I am having trouble accessing their on-line catalogue.
I will persevere.
Thank you all for your assistance.
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Hi,
No, the ten girls names are all from Limavady workhouse and all except one are from the Limavady area. The one I cannot place was Mary A. Robinson.
Have yoy seen Mary Martin's details as published on the Irish Famine Memorial Sydney? It comes under Orphans-Ships-South Australia.
Regards
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Well at least I can cross Limavady off my list! So that leaves me with 11 Workhouse in Northern Ireland, and 4 in Co Monaghan.
It is helpful that all the existing Northern Ireland records are at the PRONI - at least they are centralised. I just wish they were on-line as well!
Regarding the Limavady girls, I note that the book Barefoot and Pregnant says that 9 girls came from the Limavady Workhouse, not 10. Of course, the book may be wrong.
If you have an interest in a particular girl who came on the Roman Emperor and you are not based in South Australia, I would be happy to do a look up for you at the SAGHS. Sadly, I find that the records of the Destitute Asylum often contain information on the Famine Orphans!
I am aware of the information on the Irish Famine Memorial because I posted it. I would just love to know where in Ireland Mary came from.
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Hi,
Yes I passed the 9 names to Trevor but I am sure that I came across another girl on the memorial list about whom I knew nothing I assumed that she came on a different ship. Also thank you for your offer but my interest was general as I was doing a study of poverty in Ireland and used the details of my local workhouse for that aspect of it.
Regards
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Hi,
I know this can not confirm that it is your Mary as Martin is a common surname but the dates do tie in.
Mary Jane Martin baptised 14/03/1834, Clones, Monaghan Ireland.
Father Joseph Martin
Mother Margaret Guthrie
Sharon
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There are plenty of Martin families in Monaghan so finding your particular one won't be easy. Religion would at least cut down possibilities...
Does her marriage or death cert give any further information?
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Thanks guys!
She was definitely Catholic.
One of her marriage certificates gives her father's name as Michael, but she played fast and loose with the truth - on the same certificate she gives her age as 32 when she was close to 40. But she was marrying a 26 year old so it's not surprising that she fudged her age a bit!
I have ascertained that the Monaghan County Library holds the minute books for the Carrickmacross Workhouse, but at present these books are away being repaired, copied and rebound, so it will be some time before they have them back. I will keep checking with the Library and when the books return I will see if I can beg, persuade or coerce someone in to having a look at it for me!
The very helpful Catriona from the Library also told me that the Castleblayney Workhouse minute books are in the Monaghan County Museum, but as for the Clones & Monaghan Town Workhouse minute books, their whereabouts are unknown.
So my next e-stop is the County Museum!
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Whilst the name Martin is very common in Co Monaghan they are mainly concentrated in the south of the county and based on GV there are about as many within the Union of Carrickmacross as all the other Unions put together, so that is the best place to start.
Catriona at Monaghan library is about the most helpful person I have come across in twenty years of research so you are in good hands.
Good luck,
J.T.A.
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Thanks JT. Fingers crossed that when the Carrickmacross records are returned there is some mention of her. And yes, thumbs up to Catriona!
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Hi posters,
Sadly, there was no note in the Workhouse record of the names of the girls sent to South Australia on the Roman Emperor. Catriona did tell me that:
".... the minutes for June and July (contain a) reference to 14 girls from the Carrickmacross Workhouse being sent to Australia, but unfortunately it does not name them, it just mentions things such as clothes and boxes being purchased for each of them, what time they have to be in Dublin to catch the boat to Plymouth and then onto Australia."
BUT, I was wondering if anyone could check the records for me (assuming they are accessible to the public) to see if there is anything like an admissions register that lists the names of people admitted to the Workhouse?
My great-great greandmother Mary Martin would have been admitted prior to June 1848, when she was about 14).
Is anyone able to assist?
Thanks so much.
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hi iam from castleblayney..and i work at st mary hospital. what was the work house..i will try and find out for you from the hospital where you could obtain the imformation you are looking for..you mention carrick ,clones ...well carick is a good 15km from blayney...do you know if you g/mother had family left here in blayney?
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Hi Sue, thanks for responding. No,s adly I do not know if Mary left any family behind when she came to Australia.
I can't imagine working in what used to be the Workhouse!
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I went to Monaghan County Library but the only workhouse records for Castleblaney were meetings and expenses.My grandmother had given birth in the workhouse in 1887 . I was hoping to find out if there was a record of when she entered and left but there were no lists of people that I could see.I'd love to be proved wrong!
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Thanks noseyjosey, I was hopeful too, but it was not to be.
Fiona
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Hello all. I am also looking for information that may be contained in the Monaghan Workhouse records. If you have any suggestions about how to access this resource, I would be grateful to know. The background information I have is as follows: My distant grandmother, Margaret Quinn, died at the Monaghan Workhouse on 14 Jan 1882 of Phthitis (consumption/TB). She was admitted approximately two years prior. She was Catholic, born around 1845, gave birth to several children in Corcaghan and was married to Peter Quinn. Her maiden name was very likely Trainor or Treanor. Her husband, Peter Quinn, was a Ragman by trade, who was born about 1840 and died 5 June 1894 in Greagh, Monaghan, at his brother Patrick's house. I would also really love to know where they were buried and whether they had a headstone.
Many thanks!!!
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Recently I got in touch with Clones library about workhouse records. They said they don't have them but...... they have to be in Monaghan somewhere and I am going to check this out. In the 1911 Irish census-there are returns for a workhouse in Clones where an Eleanor Murphy worked as a teacher.
Study this for clues. I dont know but it seems this was a small workhouse. An assylum/workhouse much larger existed in Monaghan town where the inhabitants are known only by initials eg John Smith-registered as JS.
Look up Irish 1911 census-district of Rooskey.
You probably have all of this but maybe it is of some help.
Maria
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Hello all. I am also looking for information that may be contained in the Monaghan Workhouse records. If you have any suggestions about how to access this resource, I would be grateful to know. The background information I have is as follows: My distant grandmother, Margaret Quinn, died at the Monaghan Workhouse on 14 Jan 1882 of Phthitis (consumption/TB). She was admitted approximately two years prior. She was Catholic, born around 1845, gave birth to several children in Corcaghan and was married to Peter Quinn. Her maiden name was very likely Trainor or Treanor. Her husband, Peter Quinn, was a Ragman by trade, who was born about 1840 and died 5 June 1894 in Greagh, Monaghan, at his brother Patrick's house. I would also really love to know where they were buried and whether they had a headstone.
Many thanks!!!
I have seen various workhouse records for Co Antrim and where an inmate has died but I have not seen any specific records relating to place of burial. The records are fairly brief, just recording date of arrival, reason, date of leaving and reason with a few comments and personal information (eg marital status and address). However having said that, some workhouses had graveyards within their grounds. An example is the Belfast Workhouse (now the City Hospital) where the graveyard had to be moved when the hospital was extended. If someone died in the workhouse, it would be up to the next of kin to pay for a gravestone but in most cases I suspect they would not have been in a position to do so. I'd guess therefore that your ancestor is in an unmarked grave, perhaps within the workhouse grounds if that workhouse had such a graveyard.
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Thank you so much. I will pursue the lead!
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According to this site Clones Library have records (but they may not hold the records you are looking for)-
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Clones/
I had a look in National Library's online catalogue (Dublin) but nothing shows there for Clones Workhouse; also nothing in PRONI's e-catalogue (Belfast).
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Hi
If you are still researching Mary martin ,I think I have found her as a witness to another orphans marriage
Best Regards
Rob
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Hi, Do you have a husband for Mary martin? I may be able to help you
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Rob, I'd love to hear more. Can you pm me?
Mary had 2 husbands, Thomas Bilsborough who drowned, and then James Tucker.
Fiona
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Hi there, I know that those looking after the Carrickmacross Workhouse have recently done a lot of work on the kids that went off to Australia. They got an artist to recreate the wooden box the kids took with them on the journey- things like that. So they must have been digging out old records. you could contact them directly
http://www.carrickmacrossworkhouse.com/
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Will do, thank you so much!
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they came under the Earl Grey Orphan Scheme
http://www.geni.com/projects/earl-grey-orphan-emigration-scheme-from-ireland-to-australia/15952
http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/1848RomanEmperor.htm
none of the records survied from the roman emperor
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There are some records which contain names of the girls on the Roman Emperor, just not official passenger lists. I found my ancestors name in a letter from the ship's doctor, for example.
Sadly, Carrickmacross has been a dead end, but I am not giving up yet!
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Hi,
While cataloguing some records of Limavady workhouse which were found in a loft of the old building I came across the names of about 15 children who volunteered for the Earl Grey scheme. Nine of them were selected and they travelled on the Roman Emperor. The records detail the selection procedure and travel arrangements fron Limavady to Plymouth where they boarded the ship.
Regards
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Thanks Kingskerwell, that's really interesting. I wonder what the criteria for selection was. Is that made clear in the documents? Among the names of the 15 who applied, I don't suppose there was a Mary Martin?
Fiona
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Hi,
I have just moved house and can't locate the notes which I made at the time. I remember that it was a Lieutenant Henry of the Royal Navy who was employed to travel all over Ireland selecting suitable girls. They had to be recommended by the workhouse guardians and had to be suitable to be employed as servants. The name Mary Martin does not ring a bell but I did pass the names to whoever was running the Sydney Memorial project and he included them in the Roman Emperor passenger list.
Regards
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Thank Kingkerswell.
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I am also looking for Carrickmacross Workhouse records. I was told the records were destroyed. Any info would be appreciated. My sisters and I have been searching for years for birth records of our father. His name was Patrick Joseph Sherry born March 31, 1904. He was in the Carrickmacross workhouse as a baby. At nine years old he lived with a family in the Monaghan area. Look forward to any replies.
Alice
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According to this link, you should contact Clones library regarding the workhouse records:
https://www.workhouses.org.uk/Carrickmacross/
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Hi
I just read you message. Have you contact carrickmacorss workhouse to see if they could help. I know a few years back they did some research on one of the ships and some of the girls who go picked to emigrant to different countries. It might be worth a try. info@carrickmacrossworkhouse.com