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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: Rufous Treecreeper on Sunday 11 July 10 04:49 BST (UK)
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Hello Lanarkshire Rchatters,
I have been researching the Bryson (and variants) family of Glasgow circa 1600 to 1700.
I bought a will of John Bryssoun elder, merchant burgess of Glasgow dated 1672. In it he has 'I hereby nominat & entrust[?] the sd Jean Hamiltoun my weell beloved spouse Wm Hamiltoun of Wishaw her brother german and Jon Bryssoun younger merchant burges of Glasgow my cousing only' then some words I haven't been able to decifer, 'to John, Margaret, Jonat, Marie, Elizabeth & Agnes Bryssoun my family[?]' more words I can't read but finishes with, 'my sd children in all [?] affairs & concernments respecting[?] them'.
John Bryssoun elder died when his oldest child was about 14 and his youngest about 1 year old, hence the 'guardians' being appointed by him. I have worked out how the other John Bryssoun fits in but I'm stuck on William Hamilton of Wishaw now.
There was a William Hamilton of Wishaw around at that time (circa 1630 to 1724) and he descended from the Hamilton family that goes back to year dot (according to thepeerage.com). What I haven't been able to find out is if he had a sister called Jean, (one tree listed James, Margaret, John, Quintin and other un-named issue to his parents William Hamilton 1st of Wishaw and Beatrix Douglas). There is a submitted IGI record for Jean Hamilton, born to William Hamilton and Beatrix Douglas and marrying John Bryson but...
Any advice or help on how to sort this out would be much appreciated, (like if there was a Hamilton tree that listed all children).
Many thanks,
Mo
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Hi Momamg,
I was delighted to come across your post as I am a direct descendant of John Bryson c1611 - 1672 and Jean Hamilton.
I too have hit a brick wall as to whether Jean is descended to the Hamilton family and just wondered if you got an answer to your question?
Kind regards
Billy
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Hi Billy,
Unfortunately the short answer is no :(
But I think that the William Hamilton in the will is most likely the William Hamilton of Wishaw though because if he was just a local person living at Wishaw he probably would've been called 'William Hamilton at Wishaw'. All the so and so's deemed 'of' somewhere I've come across have been 'owners' of the place they are 'of'. Clear as mud ;)
Are you from the John Bryson and Ann Hutton line?
By the way I think I've found who John Bryson, son of John Bryson 1611-1672 married.
Mo :D
PS Welcome to Rootschat ;D
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Hi Mo,
Thanks for getting back to me.
I only recently came across the Bryson link back to the oldest house in Glasgow (Provandslordship) and due to work at present I have been unable to go to the records office in Edinburgh to do further research - I do have a good few weeks off work after the 19th May, so I then plan to have a few days catching up.
Yes, I am from the John Bryson and Ann Hutton line. I have been in contact with the Hamilton Sheriff Courts to see if they have any information on cases that he may have been involved in. They have again pointed me in the direction of Register House in Edinburgh (20 minute train journey, door to door), so again these are thing's I can catch up on in a few weeks.
From John and Ann, my line goes via their son William, his son William, a further William, my great grandfather Charles Rose Bryson, My grandfather William Bryson, my father William Bryson....My son was born before I started doing any research and amazingly, we called him Charles (Charlie)!
Where does your line run through?
Thanks for the welcome. ;D
Billy
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Hi Billy,
Yes, it was Provands Lordship info that broke through the Bryson brick wall for me too :D Good luck with your trip to Edinburgh, (tiny bit jealous!).
I am also from William, son of John and Ann but from William's daughter Ann Hutton Bryson who married Alan Livingston. She died and Alan and surviving children came to Australia. I'm from the oldest daughter, Marion.
You certainly have the family names continuing on well ;)
I had no idea that the Bryson family had ever been wealthy/upper crust, was it a surprise for you too?
Mo
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Hi Mo,
A family story I had heard was that a Bryson had divided his wealth between some sons and from there some had moved on. Apparently my line liked the beer and the rest they say is history ;D
I have taken part in the Bryson DNA project and matched other Bryson's. The markers showed that we shared a distant relative some 800-900 years ago. IIRC, surnames were not very common during this time and it was only the wealthy that had surnames, so this pointed to the Bryson's being a wealthy family, especially when finding a distant ancestor from such a long time ago and to this day we still shared the same surname. I did also have a very close match with the Bruce's which may have led to the Bryson surname coming about in our line (Bruceson - son of Bruce which over the years has become Bryson). I can't say this is accurate but to have such a close DNA match with their line and not other Bryson lines means that it may be a possibility.
It was also pleasant finding out about the Hutton's and who they were, we are lucky to have such an interesting tree and maybe one day we will be able to find out who the Hamilton of Wishaw is.
I work for Hibernian Football Club here in Scotland and we are in the Cup final this saturday against our fiercest rivals. We have not won this competition for 110 years and we go into it as underdogs. I'm hoping and praying that we win and if so, after a few days celebration i will then hopefully take a number of weeks off and from there I am going to get back to research and now armed with the latest Bryson details, I am going to search the records and see if I can trace the line back further and find out what the link is with the Hamilton of Wishaw. I'll keep you posted and hopefully it will be good news.
Best wishes
Billy
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Hi Billy,
800 to 900 years ago - wow! :D :o I don't understand the DNA stuff too well ::) But if I'm understanding you correctly it means that the mutual ancestor 800-900 years ago was surnamed Bryson (or variant there of)? And both you and the other man are still Bryson's?
That is amazing stuff. It makes me more confident about those ancient trees that the Hamilton of Wishaw stuff connects to that go back to year dot (which I know are not totally reliable).
I mentioned in my first answer to you about the wife of John Bryson (son of John Bryson 1611-1672), I am happy to share that with you and to see if you agree. I will PM you so we can do that via email if you're interested.
All the best of luck for the big match on Saturday! I'm definately barracking for your team and hope you have the success you deserve after 110 years ;D Go Hibernian!
Mo
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;D ;D ;D I've found it ;D ;D ;D
A history of the Hamilton's of Wishaw that has Jean Hamilton marrying John Bryson!!!
Very happy Mo :D
Had trouble linking to the right page, so click on this, then 'read online', then seacrh for Bryson or go straight to page 231.
http://openlibrary.org/books/OL25168428M/Historical_and_genealogical_memoirs_of_the_House_of_Hamilton_with_genealogical_memoirs_of_the_severa
Hope posting this snippet is okay, as the whole book is free online
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Hi Mo.
How did you ever manage to find the details? What a great piece of detective work! You have just opened up a whole new chapter in the family history that previously had us stumped.
All I can say is "Brilliant! Brilliant! Brilliant!" ;D
I have sent you a message, so please let me know if there is anything I can do for you next week when I go to Edinburgh.
This has certainly made up for the poor weekend I have just had with my football team, so I thank you for putting a smile back on my face ;D
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Glad I could help put a smile on your face (sorry about the match :( ).
In part I found it thanks to you! You contacting me made me see if I could 'google up' the missing Hamilton Bryson info, hoping since the last time I tried something new might have been uploaded. I just about fell over when it did ;D
It's quite mind boggling now isn't it? Just how far the old family tree goes back :o
Good luck in Edinburgh, I can't think of anything right now but I will PM you if I do. Thanks very much for the kind offer too :)
Mo
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Hi Mo,
I have just returned from Edinburgh and have looked at the Bryson/Crawford connection and I have taken photographs of the screen which does indeed link the 2 families, These include marriage search results and the date of marriage October 2 1709.
I will forward the pictures onto you via email shortly.
Hope all is well
Best wishes
Billy
Edit: Brysson/Craufurd wedding record number is: Parish Number 644-01, Volume 0250 and Registration district is Glasgow.
Jean Craufurd birth record number is: Parish Number 644-01, volume 0060 and registration district is Glasgow.
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I meant to add that I had heard family rumours that my grandfather had been married before so I did a search to see if they were true.
To my surprise I did find a spouse, so decided to see if there was any children and I found there was a son from this marriage. I then found that the son in turn married and he too only had one son. There is also no death records for either of them (1st son born 1931) but this may be due to them leaving these shores. Something that needs further research.
It seems it also runs in the family as my father married young and as far as I was aware, he had only 1 child with his wife. Upon searching records for any further births, I then found a son and another daughter. I do have an address for the eldest daughter as they all moved to the states when their mother remarried. They do not know about me or my sibling's and I have not written to her as her mother is still alive and I don't want to rock the boat.
I served in the forces for a good number of years, so I think I may have to take a trip down memory lane to see if I too have any skeletons in the closet :o ;D
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Complicated family history, Billy :o Some of your grandfather's first marriage descendants may still be alive even. And finding out about a couple of new half-siblings is pretty major! And then you're own efforts while in the forces... ;) ;D
It's all white bread and butter in my immediate family ::) Have to go back a few generations before I get interesting stuff like yours - or maybe the closer stuff is just hidden better ;)
Mo
PS Here's a pic scanned from a newspaper of the formidable Mrs Marion Milbourne nee Livingstone, daughter of Ann Hutton Bryson, your ancestor William's sister.
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What a fantastic picture Mo. It's great when you can put a picture to the faces of those who you are researching.
The oldest family picture that I currently have is of my great grandfather Charles Bryson and his wife Janet Ritchie Robb (Marion's cousin William's son). The picture looks to have been taken around the late 1800's to early 1900's.
I will get a scan done and will put up over the weekend.
Enjoy your weekend
Billy
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Hopefully these will work:
Picture 1. My Great grandfather and grandmother
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/h1bby01/charlesbryson1.jpg)
My Great grandfather and his son James.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/h1bby01/charlesbryson2.jpg)
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Thanks for posting the photos, Billy :D Great to see some of the true Scottish side.
Did James fight in the WW1?
Mo
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James fought in WW2 but my grandfather William fought in WW1. He joined up as a 15 year old but under his mother's surname Robb and also under a false d.o.b. His true identity only came to light after he was gassed by German forces.
Some months before he died he sat me down and told me about his time in the war and as a young 8 year old I listened to his every word. To this day I have not told anyone else the stories he told, apart from the gas part and I probably never will as I just think he needed to get it all off his chest before he left us.
What was strange though is that he re-joined the forces as a regular in 1924 and served in India. That was also the start of our family members serving in the forces as my dad served as a regular, I served as a regular and I currently have 2 nephews who are serving as regulars just now.
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That's quite a thing, choosing your 8 year old grandson to unburden yourself to before dying. Looks to me like you've honoured that choice too, Billy.
None of Marion's sons or grandsons went to war (I'm pretty sure). I think it was a combination of when they were born and that they were farmers and so needed to stay home and feed the troops. My grandad tried to join for WW2 but was medically unfit.
Mo
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Hi Billy and Mo,
Thanks for sharing that great info. I have previously had conversation with Mo. Im descendant from the John Bryson - Ann Hutton line. Cheers Brenda
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Hi Brenda,
I found it interesting to reread it too!
Hope you are well, and to you too Billy,
Marlene aka Mo