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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: MMEK on Saturday 10 July 10 07:34 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Does anyone have a link to John TURNBULL married to Ann ANDERSON? My ancestor is Alexander TURNBULL who came to Tasmania in 1854/5 as a bounty immigrant onboard the 'Raleigh'. He came with his brother James and their families.
Alexander (born abt 1832) was married to Agnes SMITH in (I think) Leuchars, Fife in 1851. Their children were: Agnes Walker (b.1852 in Fife), Janet Masterton (b.1855 at sea), Alexander (b. 1858 Pt Sorrell, Tasmania), Andrew Smith (b.1859, Deloraine, Tasmania), James Gordon (b.1863, Westbury, Tasmania) and David John (b.1874 Sheffield, Tasmania).
James was born in Wilton abt 1819 and was married to Margaret HILL in Roxburghshire. They moved from Tasmania to Geelong, Victoria in 1857. Their children were: Elizabeth (b.abt 1843, Rox.), John Anderson (b. abt 1846, Rox.), James (b. 1853, Rox), Agnes (b.1856, Woolnorth, Tas.).
I can't find records in Scotslands People for John TURNBULL and Ann ANDERSON or for their children James and Alexander (who I am starting to doubt were actually brothers???). Does anyone have a connection?
Regards,
Margaret
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hi Margaret :)
IGI/familysearch website is down for maintainance just now so a bit stuck
however , found so far -
james turnbull death registered victoria 1880 with details you have , also
http://maxwellancestry.co.uk/census/51transcript.aspx?houseid=78502016
http://maxwellancestry.co.uk/census/41transcript.aspx?houseid=78501121
ev
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Hi Margaret and Ev
I think these lines genealogy, from the little I have seen on line, might have got all mixed up :P
There is this for example www.turnbullclan.com/tca_genealogy/tca_all2-o/p309.htm#i3930 which when trying to verify on censuses ect. is hard to do.
There is an Alexander Turnbull in Fifeshire (born there) for the 1851 census, in Leuchars, which is likely to be your Alexander prior to his marriage in Leuchars.
Also, given the names you show for his children, I think Andrew Smith and Agnes Walker were the parents of Agnes Smith. There is also a birth showing on IGI for an Alexander Turnbull in Ceres Fife, in 1832 to parents Alexander Turnbull and Janet Masterton which would fit well with his children's names and his details.
Monica :)
Added: Ev, I've been using http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start - gave up waiting for the site to come back on line!
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Hi Ev and Monica,
Thankyou for the pointers. This has been a big help as I have been looking through family search records and they certainly line up with Alexander Turnbull and Janet Masterton fom Fife. The ancestry line for Janet seems straightforward but I can not pinpoint parents for Alexander. Nor can I find death records for either Alexander or Janet. Our Turnbulls went to Launceston, Tasmania. Very straightforward ancestry there - it is just the scottish Turnbull line that is causing me grief.
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These are the children showing to an Alexander Turnbull and Janet Masterton, inlcuding Alexander that we already had, all from IGI:
1. JOHN TURNBULChristening: 06 JUL 1828 Ceres, Fife
2. ROBERT TRUMBLE Christening: 30 MAY 1830 Ceres, Fife
3. ALEXANDER TURNBULL Christening: 08 APR 1832 Ceres, Fife
4. JANET TURNBULL Christening: 06 JUL 1834 Dunino, Fife
5. WILLIAM TURNBULL Christening: 12 JUN 1835 Dunino, Fife
6. ELIZABETH TURNBULL Christening: 18 DEC 1841 Carnbee, Fife
I thought this might be the family in the 1851 census:
Alexander Turnbull 44, Ag. Lab. & Farmer Of 5 Acres, b. Kemback Fife
Janet Turnbull 50 b. Forfar, Forfarshire
William Turnbull 14 b. Denino, Fifeshire
James Turnbull 11 b. Carnbee, Fifeshire
Elizabeth Turnbull 9 b. Carnbee, Fifeshire
David Turnbull 5 b. Carnbee, Fifeshire
Address: Overbarnbee, Carnbee, Fife
From this info, I wondered whether this might be Alexander Snr.'s entry on IGI:
ALEXANDER TURNBULL Christening: 30 DEC 1806 Kemback, Fife
Parents: JOHN TURNBULL and ELISABETH JACK
Monica :)
Added: Likely entry for 1841, with the surname mistranscribed on the census I am looking at;
Alexr Tumbul 35, agr. lab.
Janet Tumbul 40 b. Scotland
Robert Tumbul 11
Alexander Tumbul 9
Janet Tumbul 6
William Tumbul 5
James Tumbul 1
Address: Bonerbo, Carnbee Fife
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Hi Monica,
You have done well! Thank-you very much for all this information. Are you related, or a good Samaritan? I had wondered about John Turnbull and Elisabeth Jack. I do not know where the family had come up with John and Ann Anderson; like you I think there must be an additional generation of Alexander and Janet Masterton. I will let you know if this leads to a revelation.
Best Regards,
Margaret
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Hello
Yes the death of James Gordon Turnbull 1880 (VIC 8599/1880) ag 61, mentions parents John Turnbull & Ann Anderson.
Has anyone looked up two deaths in TAS of Alexander Turnbull 26 Jan 1875, aged 68, reg.728 Port Sorell; and Janet Turnbull 2 Aug 1866, aged 64, reg.526 Westbury. Although little was recorded on Tas. death registrations, possibly an informant may be noted linking them to your family tree.
Did Alexander Turnbull (1806) and Janet Masterton (1799) immigrant before their children?
I think Alexander Turnbull (1832) who married Agnes Smith is the son of Alexander Turnbull (1806) and Janet Masterton (1799) especially with a child named Janet Masterton Turnbull (1855).
Noted on IGI that John Turnbull (1805 Kemback) and Alexander (1806 Kemback) were sons of John Turnbull and Elizabeth Jack who married 1798. IGI has two marriages noted, first 28-Nov-1798 in Cupar and a second 11-Dec-1798 in Ceres ??
If James and Alexander Turnbull arrived together aboard 'Raleigh' in 1855 sounds as if they were cousins.
Elizabeth Turnbull (1841) came aboard 'Indiana' in 1860 with future husband James Kirkcaldy (my ancestors). Did another brother William Turnbull (1835) also arrive on 'Raleigh' or 'Indiana'?
Can anyone clarify?
Matthew
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Old Parish recordss(OPRs) show james born 7-8-1818 and John born 3-4-1821 both at Wilton which is part of Hawick Roxburghshire with parents Johna Turnbull and wife Mary Turnbull,. Family search on IGIs also confirm the dates and parents and also show Walter 1811,William 1814,Mary 1813 and Isobella 1830 all at Wilton
No trace their marriage or any Ann Anderson in OPRs.
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Hello
Since I last posted I checked the TAS microfilm of the deaths of Alexander (1875) and Janet (1866) Turnbull hoping to see the informant names. However only found the undertaker listed for Janet (married woman) and Alexander (Farmer) showed informant was from Torquay (Port Sorell reg district) and Janet was from Westbury district.
I did find a death of David Mitchell (1921) in QLD listing parents Alexander Turnbull and Janet Masterton. Likely younger brother of Elizabeth (Mrs James Kirkcaldy). Checked the Assisted immigration list and found Elizabeth Turnbull (18) arrived TAS 1860 per 'Indiana' with James G. Turnbull (20). Census records indicate brother & sister.
Earlier 1855 arrivals on the 'Raleigh' were James and Alexander Turnbull with respective families. No positive link with Elizabeth & James G. from 'Indiana'.
Only other Turnbulls on Assisted immigration list were John and Elizabeth Turnbull 1857 per 'Mercia' with family. IGI shows this family came from Melrose, Roxburgshire. Some distance from Fife.
Be pleased to hear any further research on these Turnbull branches.
Matthew
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Hi Matthew
From your last post, are you saying that potentially your Alexander's parents, Alexander and Janet (Masterton) also headed off to Australia? Certainly, from what you have found, youngest son David, whom we had in the family's 1851 census entry, also seems to have ended up there.
Monica
added: Possible migration for David?:
David Turnbull, b. 1845 arrived at Sydney, New South Wales on 18 Aug 1864, ship 'Yarra'.
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There is a family tree for Elizabeth, daughter of Alexander and Janet (Masterton) having married a James Kirkcaldy, as you had mentioned (is this your tree Matthew on Ancestry?). Elizabeth's death details are given as 14 Oct. 1923 at Westbury, Tasmania. Husband James is showing as born in 1835 in Cupar, Fife to a James and Isabella (Faernie) and a death date for him on 25 Nov. 1918 at Launceston, Tasmania. His parents are showing as having died in Fife.
Monica
Added: From http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start marriage showing for the above couple James and Elizabeth on 27 Feb 1862 at Launceston, Tasmania.
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Also from the new LDS site, linked above, I found more children to Alexander and Janet (Masterton) which were not included on IGI, including:
James Gordon Turnbull, b. 11 Nov 1839, chr. 01 Dec 1839 in Carnbee Fife.
This would then fit well with the shipping entry you found for brother and sister, James G Turnbull and Elizabeth arriving on the 'Indiana' in 1860.
Son David's details also show there, b. 06 Apr 1845, chr. 27 Apr 1845 in Carnbee Fife.
Monica
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Monica
Yes agree with the possibility that parents Alexander and Janet Turnbull also immigrated although yet to find a record. It seems son David also came out. Thanks for the possible immigration record for David. I am yet to look at the index 'Arrivals into Early Launceston' as I have not found online or at nearby library. I do not have a tree on Ancestry but my research agrees with the Kirkcaldy tree you mention. It is difficult to confirm all the Turnbulls that immigrated were closely related given their orgins from Fife and Roxburghshire. Thanks again, Matthew.
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Sorry must correct an earlier post. I said David Mitchell but meant David Turnbull.
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Meant to post this yesterday, regarding possible deaths for Alexander Snr and Janet Masterton over in Australia (1875 and 1866). This looks like them in Scotland for the 1861 census:
Alexr Tumbull 54, labourer b. Kemback, Fife
Janet Tumbull 61 b. Forfar, Forfarsh
William Tumbull 24, agr. lab. b. Denino (?spl), Fife
Address: Over Carnbee, Carnbee
Can't see parents on the 1871 census, which supports a possible migration for them post 1861, nor can I see a death for a Janet Masterton/Turnbull on Scotlands People (married women are usually easier to search for deaths as you can use both surnames).
Monica
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Matthew, regarding the Arrivals into Early Launceston index, I'm not sure it will cover the dates you are interested in, from this link here http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/2630524 unless there are more indexes not mentioned here which cover a later period.
There is this material listed here www.launceston.tasfhs.org/publications.html which hopefully local libraries may be able to offer.
Monica
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Monica
Yes I did see the 1861 Census listing and started thinking they may have immigranted after I could not find them in the 1871 Census.
The Index of Early Arrivals in Launceston goes to 1865 on CD Rom so will look into this possibility. The Tas Archives online Census index does show Turnbull in Westbury 1848 so as expected there are earlier immigrants with that surname.
Matthew
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Monica
Just to round off our discussion of Turnbulls arriving into early Launceston, I was able to check the CD ROM index to 1865 but was not able to identify Alexander and Janet. However the index is apparently incomplete due to the source data coming from newspapers. The microfilm of the passenger list from the 'Indiana' (24/4/1860) showed Elizabeth Turnbull, aged 18 domestic servant from St Andrews, Fife and James G Turnbull, aged 20 ploughman from Anstruther, Fife. Also on 'Indiana' were James (24) and William (21) Kirkcaldy both Farmers from Cupar, Fife.
Thanks again for sharing your research, Matthew.