RootsChat.Com
Independent Islands => Isle of Man => Topic started by: apple123 on Friday 09 July 10 17:46 BST (UK)
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Can anyone please help me resolve the parentage of the following grandsons of John & Catherine COTTIER:
John GRAVES born 1847 Peel
Thomas GRAVES born 1849 Peel
Thomas WATTLEWORTH born 1850 Peel
I have them on the 1851 and 1861 census with their grandparents.
Thank You
Claire
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Sorry - reply deleted - wrong info
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is http://www.manxnotebook.com/famhist/families/graves.htm any use ?
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Thank you for the link however I can't place any of the grandsons of the family tree shown. They are quite a mystery at the moment !
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they are illeg c/o of Christian - eg in 1850 presentments for Fornication under German - Christian Cottier - affiliated on Thomas Wattleworth formerly Peel now Off Island
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I think I've found all three Christenings on the Family Search Pilot website under Cottier:
John Cottier - Christened 7 May 1847 Kirk German. Mother Mary Ann Cottier
Thomas Cottier - Christened 23 Feb 1849 Kirk German. Mother Mary Cottier
Thomas Cottier - Christened 19 April 1850 Kirk German. Mother Christian Cottier.
Does anyone have access to the Christening records of these three boys from Peel who could look them up for me please?
Thank you
Claire
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All three are extracted from church records & there is unlikely to be any further onfo . except -- illegitimate son--- .I will look for you on my next visit to the MNH library. By coincidence I spent some hours at Kirk German C of E cathedral today at the Flower Festival for Manx National Week.It is the parish church.
As Frances has explained Christian was sent to the Church Court to ensure the partner supported her child financially. If necessary the mother would swear an oath on the Bible about
her claim. Manx children usually used the natural father's surname unless mothers remarried &
perhaps the stepfathers names might be used.
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the presentments are on paper - not transcribed nor indexed - when I get bored I request another year's bundle (two courts per year) and spend an hour or more noting names - about 15 years or so post 1800 are on my CD - look at www.manxnotebook.com for what years I've done. Actually Christain had nothing to do with it - she was reported by church wardens - the midwives usually had to report name of father - side effect is that the father unless he jumped Island was responsible for half maintenance of child (no children's names are given in the presentments which might well be 2 years post partum). In a very few cases (normally if father was well off or if she had been forced (eg son of an employer) there might be a petition from the mother giving the expenses incurred.
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Voirrey,
Thank you for offering to look for the three Christenings, I appreciate your help. I wasn't aware that Illegitimate children used their fathers surname in the Isle of Man. My experience for England is that they use their mothers surname. Christian died in 1856 and her sister Mary Ann in 1860.
Claire
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Frances,
Thank you for the information regarding the Presentations I didn't know they existed. Would her sister Mary Ann also have been reported by the church wardens? I'll take a look at your website as suggested. Thank you.
Claire
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probably - I selected years to look at and didn't do any in the 1840's but tried the 1850's to see how many - the whole system was falling into disuse by then - was quite surprised how many were still reported though Douglas had it seems given up caring.
use my subject index for presentments
ETA - the Isle of Man is not England - the IGI misreports entries - the actual register usualy reads xx illeg son/daughter of AB & C D
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Claire // PARISH OF GERMAN-----------------Baptisms
1847/May 7th/ no 53/ John Illegt. son / Mary Ann // Cottier / Peel / J L Stowell / Vicar
1849/ Feb. 23rd. / no 299 / Thos. Illegit. son of / Mary Cottier / Peel / J L Stowell / Vicar
1850/ April 19th / no 444 / Thomas Illegit. son of Christian Cottier/ Peel/ J L Stowell / Vicar.
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Voirrey,
Thank you very much for taking the time to look up the three Christening records and so quickly as well.
Claire
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I had a quick look at the presentments for German between 1846 and 1849 - didn't see Mary Cottier mentioned - however in previous years most of the presentments giving fathers' names were on small pieces of paper (preseumeably copies trhereof) sent by court to the parishes concerned - didn't see these in the bundles but a more thorough look at all sheets in the bundle might help but that will have to wait for some time now.
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Frances,
Thank you very much for taking the time to look for Mary Cottier in the presentments, that was kind of you.
Claire
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Hi,
A little late but just found the messages.... I have an Elinor Cubbin born abt 1726 who married William Cretney (1723-1771). Here is a copy of the will.
1771-2 A 43 CRETNEY William shickadow ?;d 10 feb 1771;4 eldest sons thos, john wm + david cretney;4 youngest ch elinor james jane + esther;wife elinor cretney als cubbon;last 3 ch ua...
Other names in the family are Fayle, Quine, Keig, Corlett, Faragher, Oates, Cottier
Kind regards,
Jeanette
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it isn't a copy of the will - taken from my website www.manxnotebook.com where explicitly stated as a summary - just one of over 15,000
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JULIO O. COTTIER
Hello everyone. My name is Julio O. Cottier. I`m from Mexico. And i decide to start looking for my Cottier roots, so i start my investigation to the mexican customs recods froms 1800`s and i found my greath-granfather arrive from les anglenier , south of france. i would like to know how and ho was the Cottier that arrive there, please if someone knows something about it or a wesite were i can look, i will be grateful to you.
thanks