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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Devon => Topic started by: united on Wednesday 30 March 05 22:01 BST (UK)
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Looking for information about Christopher Foot, believed to have baptised 14 May 1743 in Bere Ferrers, who married Elizabeth Drake on 1 February 1773. They appear to have had at least 10 children.
If anyone has information about Christopher or Elizabeth, I would love to hear!
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Hi,
im brand new to this site and was wondering if you could help. My ggg grandfather was John Drake 1791--1861 from Bere Ferrers, living in Monkeys Castle, im pretty sure he was married to Mary but i don't know her maiden name. I'm hoping John mught be related to your Elizabeth and was wondering if you had any info that could link them together.
Thank You.
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Hi - good to know these old posts are still read ....!!!
I am afraid I know very little indeed about the Drake family; so far as I can tell there is very little online for Bere Ferrers, and I have not managed to get to the record office in Exeter for a long time. My only connection - so far - to the Drake name is Elizabeth, who married Christopher Foot in 1773. Elizabeth appears to have been baptised in 1747, the daughter of John Drake and Mary Fursman, who married in 1746. I have seen Elizabeth's baptism and the marriage of John and Mary in the parish register films at the record office - but ran out of time before I could look for any further baptisms - and I have never been back!
I do have a transcription of the marriages and burials at St Andrew's Church, Bere Ferrers, but "your" John is not there.
I presume you have census details for "your" John? Just in case, I have had a quick look:
1841 HO107 piece 240 folio 11 page 17
Church Cot, Beer Ferris
John Drake, 50, ag lab, born Devon
Mary Drake, 20, born Devon
Christopher Drake, 13, born Devon
Mary Drake, 18 months, born Devon
William Drake, 14 months, born Devon
1851 HO107 piece 1883 folio 79 page 18
Monkeys Castle, Beerferris
John Drake, head, widower, 63, ag lab, born Beerferris
Jane Harry, daughter, married, 27, born Beerferris
Christopher Drake, son, unmarried, 22, labourer in lead mine, born Beerferris
Mary Ann Harry, granddaughter, 1 month, born Beerferris
1861 RG09 piece 1457 folio 54 page 7
Monkeys Castle, Beerferris
John Drake, head, widower, 71, sexton, farm labourer, born Beerferris
1871 RG10 piece 2142 folio 41 page 3
Well Farm, Beer Ferris
William Cole, head, married, 54, hind, born Thornbury
Elizabeth Cole, wife, married, 49, born Beerferris
John Cole, son, unmarried, 19, born Beerferris
Jane Cole, daughter, unmarried, 10, scholar,born Beerferris
John Drake, father, widower, 82, sexton, born Beerferris
Thought this 1871 might be yours - even though you say John died in 1861 - because of the occupation - but you probably know better!!
Sorry I cannot be of more (any!) help - I have not done any research on the Drake family for ages because I came to a brick wall, but you have prompted me to have another look online to see if there is anything new, or maybe I will have a look at the Devon Family History Society website to see if they have any new publications about Beer Ferrers - I doubt that I will get to Exeter in the near future! If I find anything about your John - I will certainly let you know. Please keep "my" Elizabeth in your thoughts if you make any further discoveries ....!!!
Best wishes
Barbara
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Hi again
I have been rummaging around in my old files and folders in search of anything further I could find about the Drake family; I had not looked in this box for years!
I have found a family tree that was sent to me some years ago – and I cannot find the accompanying letter, so have no idea who sent it!
However, there is some information that may point you in another direction, and it does look as though “my” Elizabeth and “your” John may well be from the same family.
I have already said that I believe my Elizabeth to be the daughter of John Drake and Mary Fursman who married on 7 September 1746 at Bere Ferrers. I can confirm that marriage; I have seen it in the parish register, and it also appears on the transcript I have of the burials and marriages at St Andrew’s, Bere Ferrers.
The family tree I have found shows that John and Mary had (at least) 2 children:
(my) Elizabeth, baptised August 1747
John, born 1753 and died (or was buried – it is not clear) 19 July 1831
So, concentrating on John for a moment – he appears to have married Celia Foote (who may, or may not, be connected to Elizabeth’s husband Christopher) at Bere Ferrers on 29 April 1782. This is not on my transcript – I will check the dates covered when I have a minute.
John and Celia had a son, John, who married Mary Harris on 29 October 1814 at Bere Ferrers. No dates for John, but Mary apparently was born 1784 and died 1832, which fits with the census information.
John and Mary appear to have had 6 or 7 children, amongst them, Jane who married William Harry in 1850 in Plymouth (census). Other children are listed, along with their children; if you think this is correct, I will give you the rest!
Back up the tree, John Drake who married Mary Fursman, appears to have been baptised on 23 January 1721, and this baptism is on the IGI. John is the son of William Drake and Phillipa, formerly Stockman, who married at Bere Ferrers on 7 September 1715. This marriage is on my transcript. William and Phillipa had a further son, William, baptised 24 March 1719 (from IGI). William’s father is said to be Edmund – no dates!
I will have another root around and see if I can find anything else; this has reawakened my interest in the Drakes – thank you!
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Hello Barabara,
Thank you so much for your help.As i mentioned i'm new to this area of research and have just about exhausted the GRO and census info for all the branches of my family, and i am just dipping my toe into parish records. I don't even know what IGI records are and don't know how to go about viewing county records,( i'am excited about learning though).
your info is fantastic as William Harry who marries Jane Drake is my gg grandfather. If you could let me have his fathers siblings info that would be great. Also it looks like John Drake lives longer than i thought, (he must be the sexton from1871). We may even be very distantly related if Christopher and Celia are from the same family.
once again thank you very much. Kevan :)
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Hi Kevan - or should I say Hi 6th cousin Kevan - since I am almost sure that we share common 5xgreat grandfathers - and by my reckoning, that makes us 6th cousins! I think your 4xgreat grandfather, John Drake, and my 4xgreat grandmother, Elizabeth Drake, were brother and sister - children of John Drake and Mary Fursman.
I have checked the transcript of marriages and burials from Bere Ferrers, and the marriage dates covered are 1538-1753, burials 1754-1812, which will be why a couple of the marriages I have already quoted are not on the transcript; the Devon Family History Society may have more information - I need to check their website.
I will send a personal message with the details of Jane Drake's children, as I have them, but have to emphasise that I have not confirmed any of these. Since they seem to be part of my family too, I will have to have a look!
As I have already said, I have not looked at this family for years; there may be much more around now. I cannot now remember why I did not follow up some of this before when I first acquired this tree; maybe I did, and did not get anywhere! William Drake and Phillipa Stockman rings faint bells though, so I must have done something!
Best wishes
Barbara
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Hello - another distant cousin belatedly joining in the thread - I too am descended from William Richard Harry and Jane Drake and have been looking at the Drakes of Bere Ferrers. John Drake and Mary Harris appear to have had seven children, the youngest of whom was baptised Christopher Foote Drake, making a connection with the Christopher Foot already mentioned highly likely. They also had a daughter named Celia Drake, presumably named after John's mother Celia Foot by the looks of information on this thread. I've been putting what I've got on WeRelate:
http://www.werelate.org/wiki/Family:John_Drake_and_Mary_Harris_%281%29
Do you have a baptism for the John Drake son of John Drake and Celia Foot?
Many thanks
Richard.
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Hello Richard,
I'm afraid i dont' have a baptism date for john, my information on this line came from a lady who had visited the records office in Exeter. When i get round to it, (i'm up to my eyeballs in garden landscaping at the moment), i intend to join the Devon family history society, it seems that they have data from the Bere Ferrers records.
good luck withyour search, Kevan.
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Looking for information about Christopher Foot, believed to have baptised 14 May 1743 in Bere Ferrers, who married Elizabeth Drake on 1 February 1773. They appear to have had at least 10 children.
If anyone has information about Christopher or Elizabeth, I would love to hear!
Hi I have a Mary Foot/Foote b c1776 married 1794 to William Reed and had 10 or so children.
Cannot see any baptism for her though to fit her into the Christopher/Elizabeth Foot family. None of the Reed boys are Christopher though!
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The witnesses to the marriage of Mary Foot and William Reed (sojourner) in 1794 are Christopher Foot and Richard Humphrey Foot .. which is perhaps not the Richard Humphry born 1789 ?
There is a Mary Foot baptised Bere Ferrers 27 Dec 1773 with the parents given as Christopher and Mary but as it was 7 months after Christopher and Elizabeth married ...it is more likely to be their child ?
Mary Foot and William Reed have daughters Kitty 1799 (married William Buckley) and Thomasin 1812 (married William Hoskin Adams) as well as Ann Elizabeth Mary (my line) Alice John William Thomas and a Peter. They had 2 at the Higher Chapel Moriah/Maria 1814 and another John 1817. The lack of a Christopher suggests ... ? So good at using all the other names why not Christopher ?
Always more puzzles !
Sssence
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Baptisms - Church of St Andrew, Bere Ferrers
May 14 1743, Christopher, son of Christopher and Mary Foot
Jan 25 1756, Celia, daughter of Christopher and Mary Foot
31 Jan 1790, John, son of John and Sicilia (sic) Drake
Have found these on FindMyPast (from images of original docs)
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Baptisms, St Andrew, Bere Ferrers
Oct 6 1754, Grace, daughter of Christopher and Mary Foot
Feb 28 1765, Grace, daughter of Christopher and Mary Foot
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Baptism St Andrew, Bere Ferrers
3 Nov 1748, Mary, daughter of Christopher and Mary Foot
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Baptisms St Andrew, Bere Ferrers
Dec 27th 1773, Mary, daughter of Xtopher and Mary Foot
Dec 20 1761, Thomas, son of Christopher and Mary Foot
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Hi,
im brand new to this site and was wondering if you could help. My ggg grandfather was John Drake 1791--1861 from Bere Ferrers, living in Monkeys Castle, im pretty sure he was married to Mary but i don't know her maiden name. I'm hoping John mught be related to your Elizabeth and was wondering if you had any info that could link them together.
Thank You.
After.stumbling across a lot of hard work by another contributer here by accident very recently I decided to stop at Bere ferrers yesterday on the way home from Cornwall. We share the same ggg grandmother. We decided to nip into the Plough in, Bere ferrers only to find myself sat beside marY's headstone set into the floor! Apparently the stone mason was across the road, and when it changed hands piles of "practice " headstones (seconds?) where found in the garden and sold as flooring. No sign of the head stone in the grave yard, but the only grave stones I could see (2) in the same stone where in a poor state, so I guess the "good" one has been outlived by the one in the pub! Spoke to someone who.has always lived in the village, still uncertain myself but she knew of Monkeys Castle,said some remains were still visible when she was.young, I'd guess she was in her late 40s to early 50s. She described it as being very close to Well farm, if you drive out of Bere ferrers, past well farm drive and park in layby just after. Then walk back past farm entrance, she described it as if it should be obvious, but it didnt seem to be to me, did notice a gap in the typical mud devon bank and stone work 50 yards down. Sorry not to add anything useful yet, will add if I can.
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Hello - another distant cousin belatedly joining in the thread - I too am descended from William Richard Harry and Jane Drake and have been looking at the Drakes of Bere Ferrers. John Drake and Mary Harris appear to have had seven children, the youngest of whom was baptised Christopher Foote Drake, making a connection with the Christopher Foot already mentioned highly likely. They also had a daughter named Celia Drake, presumably named after John's mother Celia Foot by the looks of information on this thread. I've been putting what I've got on WeRelate:
http://www.werelate.org/wiki/Family:John_Drake_and_Mary_Harris_%281%29 (http://www.werelate.org/wiki/Family:John_Drake_and_Mary_Harris_%281%29)
Do you have a baptism for the John Drake son of John Drake and Celia Foot?
Many thanks
Richard.
Hello, it looks like you have spent a lot of time and hard work! William Harry and Jane drake are my great great grandparents from what I can see. I stumbled across what you put on WeRelate purely by accident and what I appreciate is.the amout of names you put on after you seem to branch off. I need to pin down my dad and put some more family tree up, I am not sure if I'm going to be much help to the Drake/Harris side, as lots has been done but will certainly share.
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Hello Miball, and welcome to Rootschat. I like what you've found out about the location of Monkeys Castle. Based on the description you've given, if you have a look at www.old-maps.co.uk for co-ordinates 245344, 65668 you'll see on the 1884 map a small black square, and in the same spot on the 1953 map it's labelled "ruin". This seems to fit with both where Monkeys Castle is listed in the censuses, and the fact the ruin was still there at least as late as the 1950s fits with the description from your lady in the pub.
Thanks
Richard.
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Hello Miball, and welcome to Rootschat. I like what you've found out about the location of Monkeys Castle. Based on the description you've given, if you have a look at www.old-maps.co.uk for co-ordinates 245344, 65668 you'll see on the 1884 map a small black square, and in the same spot on the 1953 map it's labelled "ruin". This seems to fit with both where Monkeys Castle is listed in the censuses, and the fact the ruin was still there at least as late as the 1950s fits with the description from your lady in the pub.
Thanks
Richard.
Thanks for the link, Ive been trying to find an old map, had forgotten about old maps site. This matches the spot I guessed. Now a gate sized gap/reduced thickness of hedge alongside a stone wall in a bank otherwise made of mud. Quite overgrown and not really anything to distinguish this spot from the rest of this wooded/over grown strip between the field and road.
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Hello again
Looking at that strip of land that the small building of 1884 / ruin of 1953 stood upon, it looks to me like it was once highway verge land, and presumably therefore was common land. Given the small size of the 1884 building, I wonder if what we're looking at is a "squatter's cottage" - one of the cottages supposedly built on common / waste land where the cottagers used to claim that if they could build a cottage in a single day and have a fire going in the hearth by nightfall they could keep it. If it is / was part of the highway land, that may also explain why the building stood in ruins so long - no-one had any incentive to rebuild it. Would also explain why there's such a thick band of trees there now and the strip hasn't been incorporated in the neighbouring field.
Just a theory.
Richard.
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Have now found a couple of references to Monkeys Castle in old newspapers. The name was clearly still in use in 1900, and the fact a fox hunt met there in 1846 supports the theory that it was on the main road but at a widening in the road allowing people to gather:
Exeter Flying Post 29 Oct 1846
HUNTING APPOINTMENTS
Mr. Morgan's Fox Hounds meet on Saturday, 31st Oct. at New Bridge Hill; and on Wednesday, November 4th at Monkey's Castle Beerferris - each day at ten.
Western Times 16 Mar 1900
TAVISTOCK
Wednesday at Tavistock Police Court... William Bennett was charged with using obscene language at Bere-ferrers. P.C. Banbury stated that defendant and another man were drinking from a bottle near Monkey's Castle, at 11p.m. When they had finished the defendant dashed the bottle into the hedge and made use of very bad language. Fined 5s and 6s6d costs.
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Hello, have emailed you this hopefully bit thought others may be interested. It's quotes from a book I picked up from Bere Ferrers church. from a book called a history of Bere Ferrers parish by the Rev Arthur jc Beddows. Book reads;
"church registers. These are very ancient, going back in an unbroken line to December 1538. In September of that year Thomas Cromwell, Lord chancellor, ordered all parish priests to keep records. One record of interest is the marriage of the great great nephew of Sir Frances drake 6th February 1665. The words of the register are 'francis drake baronet and Dorothy bampfyld of ley'. Tradition is he rowed across the task from Buckland abbey to marry his bride. In those days Ley, a farm in Bere Ferrers, belonged to the Drake family.
There is a tale that has been told to me by more than on parishioner. It is about Mr drake, clerk at the parish church, who lived at monkeys castle. In the 19th century the services were very long, and especially the sermons. The church had box pews with high sides, which provided ample opportunity for the children to have great fun., as they hoped unseen. During the sermon, if Mr drake saw any boy miss behaving he would come round and hit them on the head with a stick. I often thought that his tale had been related to me by the relatives of those who suffered from these escapades "
Another quote from same book
"Ley farm was once a manor and originally called Legh (saxon from meadow, lea). It belonged to William design Legh in 1296 and years later was brought by Sir James ley, whom James 1 created a baron and afterwards became earl of Marlborough. It eventually belonged to the drake family. There used to be a chapel here. In the church wardens account for 1601 it states 'recived for certyn stores of the pishe (parish) taken from the Chappel sold to tho bayly xiiixs' this could be the chapel at ley. Close to Ley is hawcombe now a few ruined buildings. Tradition has it that the father of Francis Drake lived here prior to his moving to Tavistock, when he met his girlfriend and married at Tavistock church. It was at Hawcombe that the two monks dwelt, mentioned earlier (in bit I'm about to quote!) and who helped with the salt works"
Third quote come before above in book
"monkeys castle
As a connecting link between Bere Alston and Bere Ferrers, let me tell you of the legend of monkeys castle. An old legend relates that the people decided to build a church and thought the fairest way to solve where to build it was to put it half way between the two villages. So they set to work, and each evening the stones where moved by monkeys. The next morning they built again using more stones, and when the evening came the same happened again. This went on for some time, each evening the monkeys removed the stones.(history does not relate whether it was two or four legged monkeys!) so the people decided not to build on this spot
This is only legend, and now for fact. There is a place called monkeys castle. It is on the road to Bere Alston from Bere Ferrers and near the turning for hole farm. Once there.was a house here in the 19TH century the parish clerk, Mr drake, lived here. The parish church has been on its present site for over thousand years, and a churh at Bere Alston since 14th century. The word monkey did not come into our language until Elizabethen times. But the old spelling of monk was monkeys and this house used to be called monk's castle. Also I have been told by an old parishioner that just before the dissolution of monistaries. By Henry viii two monkeys lived in a cottage not far from here"
I have two theories, my first was that The drakes were based around Ley and ley farm (I think ley is fairly close to monkeys castle but nearer the river) and as the family expanded and sub diverted our part brought a cottage that once belonged to two monks. Now you mention a squatters cottage, it could be possible that.our part of the drakes needed a house, and " borrowed " stone from a perhaps by then derelict monks (monke) cottage and/or chapel or monistary that was on effect on their families land. Maybe the monkey legend was around well before monkeys castle was built or grew at the time, but the name monkeys castle could be a tounge in cheek reference to the legend acknowledging with good humour where the stones came from. If that legend had been around for years prior, I'd wouldn't be able to resist calling in monkey castle. On the Bere Alston side of well farm island layby and a wide y shaped junction. The road is wide above the site of monkey farm for hunt meets.
Ment to ask earlier but what is your or othersuitable opinions on this line being related to sir francis drake. I know he never had children so no chance of direct linkage, and he past his title to his oldest/favourite (can't remember which) nephew. But I guess he had other nephews. Given what I have quoted above, and that the Bere Ferrers/Tavistock area isn't huge I'd have thought two distinctly different drake familiys's is not so likely. I wonder if francis and our line share grandparents somewhere along the line.