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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northumberland => England => Northumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Muir on Thursday 08 July 10 15:41 BST (UK)
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hi there
trying to find photo's / exact location of this pub in morpeth.
it was in bridge street old pheonix yard, approximately opposite the chantry.
it existed in 1891 when my ancestors lived there and was still there in about 1907 when it may have changed its name/use
regards
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Hi Muir,
I do know that there is a New Phoenix Yard: this is at the side of the Black Bull on Bridge Street. The Hope and Anchor used to be next to it. There was a pub, 1851 census, no name though, in the area you suggest, opposite the Chantry. in 1851 Innkeeper was John Caisley. This area became Jennings Garage in the early 1900s even that's now gone.
I'll have a look next week.
Best Wishes.
Robert.
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The Inn/Pub was eastwards, next door to the Black Bull.
Today it is shop of British Heart Foundation, 49 Bridge St (northern side of Bridge St)
Called New Phoenix Hotel in 1920.
Some time after 1939 became Electricity Board Showroom.
The "yard" heading northwards off the north end of Bridge St has street sign in the yard " Pheonix Yard ( contains womens haridressers " Salon" and a barbers)
Until later,
Michael
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" Morpeth Berween the Wars" by FC Moffatt and GC MacDonald. A locally produced small book in Morpeth Library contains a photo (or a printed photocopy of a photocopy) of PHEONIX HOTEL, dated 1920 and annotated (now Electricity Showroom)
The photo shows a three storey nedium sized building with 4 windows on 1st and 2nd storeys and a large nameboard between these two storeys showing
"NEW PHOENIX HOTEL" (note variation in spelling)
In the book a plan of north side of Bridge St 1914 shows these neighbouring establishments
Marshall Chemist, Black Bull Inn, Pheonix Hotel, Pringles, Shoes, Walton, Ladies Wear then Jennings Garage.
It seems that name of pub/yard changed name from "Old" to New" between 1881-1891
( 1871 5163-38-16 "Old Ph Yd- 1881 5114-38-13- Old Ph Yd)
(1891 4255-37-20 New Ph Yd- 1901 4832-63-17 New Ph Yd)
Then into modern times the "New " was dropped
Kelly's Directory of 1894 has it Alexander Hogg, New Pheonix Hotel.
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It is sited where you thought opposite the Chantry and slightly left.
The staff in the British Heart Foundation (Postcode NE61 1PQ) seem to know all about the building previously been the Phoenix Hotel,
They also added that the cellar was once used as the town mortuary !
Michael
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That's excellent information
the next time i am in morpeth i will have to get the book, I did check the library and all the little books like the one you mentioned , but must have missed that one, the local studies librarian didn't have a clue. The people who do the historical pub walks of morpeth didn't know either. Every time i have been to morpeth I kept checking the back lanes for names, but the ones on that side of the street did not have any plaques.
In 1891 it was owned by a george kerr who was married to a dunn whose sister was married to my relative (muir) they had their nephew lving there with them(john muir)
I will have to quiz the heart foundation staff next time i am passing.
regards
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Muir,
Perhaps you can view the building on Google Earth ?
Michael
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Have done
michael, it just nice to see what it would have looked like in the old days, Now I know exactly where it is some of the older photographs of the street will give a clearer idea, I am sure there are plenty of the black bull pub next door, so the phoenix may well be seen in one of its various incarnations.
regards
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Muir- good hunting for the old photos.
From the old photographs on various sites ( including communities.northumberland.gov.uk ) it looks as though photographers thought Newgate St more photogenic than Bridge St !
And those photos of Bridge St that are online are long shots up or down the street.
On www.francisfrith.com/morpeth the first photo is looking westwards up Bridge St. The bay windows of Black Bull are easy to spot- and three ladies crossing the road look as if they are heading for ..... the showroom -to buy a cooker lol ( This shot is dated 1965 -too late for your requirement.
Although I am a Blyth lad, living in Newcastle, I have very fond memories of Morpeth - I attended King Edw VI school 1952-1959.
Michael
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Snippet.
Kelly's Trade Directory of Northumberland, for 1921 has
" New Phoenix Hotel, Bridge St, John R Watson. "
Michael
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thanks michael
next time i am in morpeth, i will take a few snap shots and grab that book from the library you mentioned, when doing my family tree I like to put little snippets of where people lived and what they were doing.
more of a social history, so if the house are still stadning I usually snap them, if I find a grave stone then I grap a picture etc
now john muir was aged 14 and his sister would have been about 12/13, one was living in the pheonix the other was with the family, I wonder which school they might have attended in 1891 in morpeth if they lived in bridge street?
regards
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two schools in the town were st james by manchester st or goosehill in castle square
i dont know when either of them opened but st james would be the oldest i think it closed in the 70s and goosehill is still there
alison
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Thanks for that, it has indirectly led to me to another potential resource.
Land Valuation maps and books, I have found an old valutation map 1910 showing the position of the pheonix
regards
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Muir,
Today I returned the two books I borrowed from Morpeth Library to Ponteland Library ( I do have some Irish blood lol). All Northumberland County Council Libraries are "inter-linked" so the books will soon reach their home on the shelf in Morpeth.
Those books and their neighbours also have sections on the town's schools... from before 1552 ( one of first schools was actually in the Chantry) to modern times.
Michael
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Hi
after the last post I revisited a site I used previously
http://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/Morpeth_C13.htm which was quite interesting as it has old photo's and manuscripts which proivded me with a valuation map for bridge street morpeth from 1910 on the very edge you can see the old pheonix, but what was also interesting was some of the excerts from the schools log books, for example the line about the children getting the day off to practice singing the national anthem in the market square to celebrate the new kings proclamation.
some times it is the little resources that people stumble across that are the most revealing.
keep up the good work :)
regards
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The plot thickens?
Just when I thought I was sure where the old pheonix Inn was located I found this 1910 land valuation map which puts the pheonix 3 doors off the queens head basically where part of rutherfords now located??? which makes it on the opposite side of the road to what I have previously understood(opposite the Howard Arms), Was there possibly Two!http://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/007531FS.htm
Any Ideas??
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Muir,
Bridge Street runs West ><East ( with lower numbers in the west)
The Black Bull and Old?New Pheonix lay/lie on the northern side of Bridge St.
Michael
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yes so I thought,
did you look at the link I provided in my last post, check out the building bottom right 3 along from the queens head, unless this document was created incorrectly for the tax valuation, then it is showing an old peonix PH (public House)?
regards
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From Pigots Trade Directory 1822.
"Coaches"
"The Northumberland" Daily to Alnwick. At Noon from the New Phoenix Inn.
"The Wonder", Daily from Newcastle arrives Noon at the Old Phoenix Inn.
More later,
Michael
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From Parson and White's Trade Directory 1827
Coaches
"The Northumberland" daily to Alnwick at 12.30 pm from the New Phoenix Inn.
"The Northumberland", daily to Newcastle at !2.30pm from the New Phoenix Inn, returning at quarter before 5 o'clock
Hotels Inns Taverns
Old Phoenix Inn Bridge St, Jane Peacock.
Phoenix Inn , MARKET PLACE, William Hogg
(Wonder if printers just missed off the " New" or whether there was a third inn with similar names ? . Bridge St ran off Market Place !)
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Pigot's Trade Directory 1834 (this one is on communities.northumberland.gov.uk web site)
NPI , Bridge St, Joseph Henderson
OPI , Bridge St, Elizabeth Whitfield
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Whellans Trade Directory 1855
NPI, Bridge St George Roberts
PI (no "New") Septimus Wright
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T.Bulmer's 1887
Black Bull, 47 Bridge St, George Dorsyth
NPI , 49 Bridge St , Hopper and Anderson
Hope & Anchor 41 Bridge St, John Heddon
(these three on north side of Bridge St.
Queens Head Bridge St Mrs Rachael Bowman
Whale Bone Inn 22 Bridge St Mary Edgar
These two on south side.
Work-in-Progress
Michael
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Hi Michael
it certainly turned into more of a detective mystery, last year nobody even knew their was a pub with this name, now we possilby have two!
I was in morepth on monday with my camera, to further support the the pheonix also being on the other side I saw a picture showing a theatre come picture hows supposedly in pheonix court, this is out back of the queens head ie the area where the car park and leisure centre are (next to the river).
Those directories provide usefel information, for instance my ancestor wo lived on bridge street in 1891 was a coachman, not sure if it was domestic or not but it was big business for morpeth as i read the blackbull pub had stables for 80 horses!
regards
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hi there
what is now phenoix court (the flats) has always been housing but in the 70s it was called baysland and it changed its name in the 80s
i can remember some stables at the back of the queens and the black bull in the late 70s before the bull was modenised
alison
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muir,
There is an outside possibility that there were 3 Phoenix's ( one on north side of Bridge St, one on south side and one in Market Place)
One thing that sticks out from all the info on Morpeth's inns, is that their names were changed frequently - perhaps by incoming new landlords/ladies.
I was'nt going to tell you about my animals- but you threw in horses !
Market day, traditiionally Wednesday, hundreds of sheep to be sold. The drovers from Coldstream area, Cumberland and north Northumberland etc, started their jouney on Sunday and stopped off on the way- there were sheep stations on the way e.g. in Wooler.
Once into Morpeth by Tuesday, the sheep were penned in Bridge St etc. But not at the back - in the front street ! on both sides.... Rutherford's earned the nickname - the Sheep Market. The drovers stayed at the various inns on the cheap ! Publicans provided them with a "Donkeys Breakfast " - a straw palliasse.
I too explored the yards and alleyways on the south side of Bridge St, and noticed that there were plaques announcing "Town Trail". From the Chantry I bought brochure "Town Trail No.1" ( No.2 covered Newgate St) (20 pence bargain) But frustratingly it does not give the detail required to reveal sites ( except Queens Head and Black Bull)
Michael
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Local News ( via BBC teletext)
In the early hours of last Saturday morning a fire was discovered behind the British Heart Foundation charity shop. (site of Phoeix Hotel) It was a wheeled bin which was alight.
Much of the shop's stock was damaged by smoke etc.
At the same time a similar fire in a wheelie bin was discovered behind the Oxfam Charity shop, also on Bridge St.
A disgruntled charity shop customer ?
Michael
Michael